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  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,11:39   

These people are scientifically lazy political hacks, not scientists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....eration

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,12:16   

Pitiful and contemptible, even for you.

     
Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,11:39)
These people are scientifically lazy political hacks, not scientists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......eration

A "theory of operation" is not a scientific theory.

Einstein's Theory of Operation of Relativity?????
Newton's Theory of Operation of Gravity????
Darwin's Theory of Operation of Evolution????

And since when do theories of operation require testing and development by an external community of experts?   "We are a large computer company and we have just developed the world's first supercomputer.  We are now asking for assistance in developing a theory of operations so that we can write a manual indicating which button to push." ??????

You remember the complaint (perhaps from NoName) about you jumping between different uses of words in order to smuggle in your desired conclusions? - this is a classic example, and it shows why you will probably never present your arguments honestly enough for them to be science.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,12:55   

Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,12:16)
Pitiful, even for you.

 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,11:39)
These people are scientifically lazy political hacks, not scientists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......eration

A "theory of operation" is not a scientific theory.

Einstein's Theory of Operation of Relativity?????
Newton's Theory of Operation of Gravity????
Darwin's Theory of Operation of Evolution????

And since when do theories of operation require test and development by a community of experts?   "Help, we are a large computer company and have just developed the world's largest computer.  We are asking for assistance in developing a theory of operations so that we can write a manual indicating which button to push." ??????


None of the theories you mentioned are a computer model of a system that requires a "theory of operation" (an operational theory). Your examples are all red-herrings.  

You have been promoting the anti-ID movement's self-styled definitions for "hypothesis" and "theory" instead of what experienced scientists, engineers and top universities want public school teachers to teach. Even Buddy from the "Dinosaur Train" put your definition for hypotheses to shame:

http://www.pbs.org/parents....othesis

You are likewise attempting to turn a "theory" into a tribunal where control freaks such as yourself get to decide whether a "theory" is a "theory" or not. Joseph Stalin already tried your methodology and it only worked for the political hacks who had a fun time trashing the scientific system of the entire USSR.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,13:08   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,12:55)
Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,12:16)
Pitiful, even for you.

 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,11:39)
These people are scientifically lazy political hacks, not scientists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......eration

A "theory of operation" is not a scientific theory.

Einstein's Theory of Operation of Relativity?????
Newton's Theory of Operation of Gravity????
Darwin's Theory of Operation of Evolution????

And since when do theories of operation require test and development by a community of experts?   "Help, we are a large computer company and have just developed the world's largest computer.  We are asking for assistance in developing a theory of operations so that we can write a manual indicating which button to push." ??????


None of the theories you mentioned are a computer model of a system that requires a "theory of operation" (an operational theory). Your examples are all red-herrings.  

You have been promoting the anti-ID movement's self-styled definitions for "hypothesis" and "theory" instead of what experienced scientists, engineers and top universities want public school teachers to teach. Even Buddy from the "Dinosaur Train" put your definition for hypotheses to shame:

http://www.pbs.org/parents....othesis

You are likewise attempting to turn a "theory" into a tribunal where control freaks such as yourself get to decide whether a "theory" is a "theory" or not. Joseph Stalin already tried your methodology and it only worked for the political hacks who had a fun time trashing the scientific system of the entire USSR.

That Gary's scientific training peaked with a cartoon for pre-schoolers really explains a lot of his problems.  Why he thinks he knows more about what scientists and educators want to do than the actual scientists and educators on this board (and others) is one of the questions we'd all love to get him to address.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,13:27   

Again with the BS and meaningless word salad.  

Your Buddy site says that an hypothesis is an idea that is testable.  I'd modify that slightly to "a proposed explanation that is testable" ("I have an hypothesis that elephants can't fly" is less of an hypothesis than "I have an hypothesis that elephants can't fly because they can't flap their ears fast enough"), but I'm basically fine with the PBS definition and having been using "hypothesis" consistently for testable potential explanations.  Go ahead and show me where I've misused the term "hypothesis": my prediction is that you can't do that.  You, on the other hand, have not been following the hypothesis-testing model for doing science.  You haven't proposed much in the way of hypotheses, and your rubbish is not testable, because you have not provided valid operational definitions, which are necessary for testing, unless you are using standard terms in standard ways with standard pre-existing operational definitions.  You have yet to provide any valid proposals for testing any of your stuff (and that includes the page of invalid non-sequiturs you put up a year or so ago).

I'm using the standard scientific usage for "theory".  You aren't.  You are the one following Lysenkoist methodology of making invalid and unsupported assertions without testing your assumptions.  I am not.  Again, meaningless word salad tossed about by you.

You want to evade any evaluation that is not tantamount to adulation.  You want us to help test and develop your ideas - what do you think we are doing? - The first step in testing a concept is seeing whether it can (metaphorically) get airborne under its own power, and we have determined that yours flies like a dead elephant.

     
Quote
control freaks such as yourself get to decide whether a "theory" is a "theory" or not.
 Umm, you are the one trying to force a redefinition of what a theory is.  You want to be accepted as doing science?  Then actually do some, and use its terms, standards, and practices appropriately.  You don't get to redefine acceptable scientific practices and then demand that we have to accept your new usage.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,14:07   

Quote (Texas Teach @ April 26 2015,13:08)
That Gary's scientific training peaked with a cartoon for pre-schoolers really explains a lot of his problems.  Why he thinks he knows more about what scientists and educators want to do than the actual scientists and educators on this board (and others) is one of the questions we'd all love to get him to address.

This is another good example of the groupthink that exists among those in and around the public school classrooms (not lab scientists, theorists, and others who are instead busy testing hypotheses and developing new theories).

I know this from my needing university level help to rid myself of the "layman's definitions" that the public schools often still teach and the newer variations that the anti-ID movement promote, which are all able to stop any politically inconvenient theory just because their small group said-so. It's a way of changing a discussion to something other than computer models and associated theory so that all scientific work becomes a pompous ritual where I and others have to meet the (anti)religious needs of those with an ax to grind against another group.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,14:12   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,12:55)
Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,12:16)
Pitiful, even for you.

 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,11:39)
These people are scientifically lazy political hacks, not scientists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......eration

A "theory of operation" is not a scientific theory.

Einstein's Theory of Operation of Relativity?????
Newton's Theory of Operation of Gravity????
Darwin's Theory of Operation of Evolution????

And since when do theories of operation require test and development by a community of experts?   "Help, we are a large computer company and have just developed the world's largest computer.  We are asking for assistance in developing a theory of operations so that we can write a manual indicating which button to push." ??????


None of the theories you mentioned are a computer model of a system that requires a "theory of operation" (an operational theory). Your examples are all red-herrings.  

You have been promoting the anti-ID movement's self-styled definitions for "hypothesis" and "theory" instead of what experienced scientists, engineers and top universities want public school teachers to teach. Even Buddy from the "Dinosaur Train" put your definition for hypotheses to shame:

http://www.pbs.org/parents....othesis

You are likewise attempting to turn a "theory" into a tribunal where control freaks such as yourself get to decide whether a "theory" is a "theory" or not. Joseph Stalin already tried your methodology and it only worked for the political hacks who had a fun time trashing the scientific system of the entire USSR.

"Theory of operation" and "operational theory" are not synonymous.  You confuse things because you don't understand parts of speech.

I know a little about theories of operation.  I'm involved in manufacturing, and a part of the design of processes, machines and gauges involves expressing exactly how a device or process is intended to operate and how it's capable of producing or verifying that products meet design intent in a reasonably economical manner.

You don't have a theory of operation because theories of operation are descriptions of mechanisms, both in the strictly mechanical sense and in the theoretical sense.   You have no mechanisms.  You have a poorly-realized sketch of things we already know, and a lot of that you have wrong.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,14:20   

Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,13:27)
I'd modify that slightly to "a proposed explanation that is testable"

And here we go again with embellishments meant to compromise scientific integrity so that political hacks with nothing better to do than order others around get to control the entire scientific system including all funding. Scientists who don't go along with their group can then be mocked and ridiculed, possibly right out of science.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,14:26   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,14:07)
Quote (Texas Teach @ April 26 2015,13:08)
That Gary's scientific training peaked with a cartoon for pre-schoolers really explains a lot of his problems.  Why he thinks he knows more about what scientists and educators want to do than the actual scientists and educators on this board (and others) is one of the questions we'd all love to get him to address.

This is another good example of the groupthink that exists among those in and around the public school classrooms (not lab scientists, theorists, and others who are instead busy testing hypotheses and developing new theories).

I know this from my needing university level help to rid myself of the "layman's definitions" that the public schools often still teach and the newer variations that the anti-ID movement promote, which are all able to stop any politically inconvenient theory just because their small group said-so. It's a way of changing a discussion to something other than computer models and associated theory so that all scientific work becomes a pompous ritual where I and others have to meet the (anti)religious needs of those with an ax to grind against another group.

Non-responsive.  Gary, nothing I said matches anything you said.  Try learning to read English.

Since you need help, let's try again: why do you think you know better than actual scientists and educators what scientists and educators want?  You're pulling out cartoons for pre-schoolers ffs.  Aren't you even a little embarrassed that cartoons are the highest level of science education you have (which would be sad, but not ridiculous, if you didn't think you knew more than my high school students).

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,14:34   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,14:20)
Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,13:27)
I'd modify that slightly to "a proposed explanation that is testable"

And here we go again with embellishments meant to compromise scientific integrity so that political hacks with nothing better to do than order others around get to control the entire scientific system including all funding. Scientists who don't go along with their group can then be mocked and ridiculed, possibly right out of science.

You've gotta love Gary's argument here.  If you demand any more nuance than a pre-school cartoon you are "embellishing" and trying "compromise" science.  Gary, it's not even your crazy notion of K-12 level.  It's made for pre-schoolers!  Next you'll be telling us that dinosaurs could talk and had time-travel technology.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,14:51   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,14:20)
Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,13:27)
I'd modify that slightly to "a proposed explanation that is testable"

And here we go again with embellishments meant to compromise scientific integrity so that political hacks with nothing better to do than order others around get to control the entire scientific system including all funding. Scientists who don't go along with their group can then be mocked and ridiculed, possibly right out of science.

You clearly have no concept of how foolish you are making yourself look (also, try reading for comprehension).  I'm not greatly opposed to the PBS definition.  It is slightly oversimplified, but it's fine for kids.  The extra stuff about explanation is not just me embellishing for the sake of being nasty: it's standard stuff for doing professional and productive science.

Google Search: Hypothesis: a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.

dictionary.com: Hypothesis:  
1. a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.

STEM Student Research Manual: Hypothesis: an hypothesis is a tentative and testable statement that proposes an explanation [for] an observable phenomenon

See all those mentions of "explanation"?  I know there are definitions out there that exclude "explanation" (the majority of the exceptions just say something along the lines of "a testable statement about the reality"), but hypotheses really don't deliver much until they are about explanations, so most people include that in the definition of hypothesis.


And while we are at it, regarding "theory":

National Science Teachers:
http://www.nsta.org/about......on.aspx
Theory
In science a theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses (NAS 1998).

For some reason, none of these definitions include "a load of rubbish asserted by Gary Gaulin without a shred of supporting evidence."

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,14:55   

Quote (Texas Teach @ April 26 2015,14:34)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,14:20)
Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,13:27)
I'd modify that slightly to "a proposed explanation that is testable"

And here we go again with embellishments meant to compromise scientific integrity so that political hacks with nothing better to do than order others around get to control the entire scientific system including all funding. Scientists who don't go along with their group can then be mocked and ridiculed, possibly right out of science.

You've gotta love Gary's argument here.  If you demand any more nuance than a pre-school cartoon you are "embellishing" and trying "compromise" science.  Gary, it's not even your crazy notion of K-12 level.  It's made for pre-schoolers!  Next you'll be telling us that dinosaurs could talk and had time-travel technology.

Science teachers are not supposed to be embellishing accepted definitions for simple concepts such as "hypothesis" and "theory".

The need to teach loaded definitions instead of what already exists and has been accepted is only indicative of a political hack who is teaching nonsense.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,15:06   

Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,14:51)
I'm not greatly opposed to the PBS definition.  It is slightly oversimplified, but it's fine for kids.  The extra stuff about explanation is not just me embellishing for the sake of being nasty: it's standard stuff for doing professional and productive science.

So says another dictator who spends most of their time trying to stop science. Answering to your inquisition sure stops all my work.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,15:10   

Just to point out the unusually high grade of slapstick that Gary is providing here:

Gary on the previous page:    
Quote
they just complain and complain as though the problem is my scientific vocabulary with words like "confidence" and "guess" must be dumbed-down to what you're used to


Gary, on the very next page, cites "Buddy from the "Dinosaur Train" as his expert and not-to-be-questioned expert on the definition of 'hypothesis'




Gary, shortly thereafter:    
Quote
Science teachers are not supposed to be embellishing accepted definitions for simple concepts such as "hypothesis" and "theory".


So, what is it Gary? - How come we are supposed to be the ones who want dumbed-down definitions, if you are the one  sticking with Buddy and Dinosaur Train?   Do you really want to argue that teachers at all levels are supposed to stick with preschooler-level explanations all the way through K-12 education, because anything more sophisticated than what you can handle is inappropriate "embellishment"?


 
Quote
Science teachers are not supposed to be embellishing accepted definitions for simple concepts such as "hypothesis" and "theory".
 If they are that simple, how come you can't grasp them and use them properly?

 
Quote
The need to teach loaded definitions instead of what already exists and has been accepted is only indicative of a political hack who is teaching nonsense.
 "Accepted by you" does not equal "accepted".  The Buddy version is a little oversimplified: it is not quite the standard and accepted version.  The standard definitions are only "loaded" if everyone is in a gigantic conspiracy to get you, and I think you won't find anyone to agree with you on that one*.

(*No doubt because I already contacted them all and told them not to.  :)  )

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,15:15   

Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,14:51)
National Science Teachers:
http://www.nsta.org/about......on.aspx
Theory
In science a theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses (NAS 1998).

And what you call "well-substantiated" is not "well-substantiated" it's having passed your religious test that requires the model and its well-substantiated theory of operation to serve your religious agenda, or else you deem it to be "pseudoscience".

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,15:20   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,15:15)
Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,14:51)
National Science Teachers:
http://www.nsta.org/about......on.aspx
Theory
In science a theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses (NAS 1998).

And what you call "well-substantiated" is not "well-substantiated" it's having passed your religious test that requires the model and its well-substantiated theory of operation to serve your religious agenda, or else you deem it to be "pseudoscience".

I don't have a religious test, and those are the words of the NAS via the National Science Teachers

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,15:28   

Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,15:10)
So, what is it Gary? - How come we are supposed to be the ones who want dumbed-down definitions, if you are the one  sticking with Buddy and Dinosaur Train?   Do you really want to argue that teachers at all levels are supposed to stick with preschooler-level explanations all the way through K-12 education, because anything more sophisticated than what you can handle is inappropriate "embellishment"?

Only a political hack needs more than that. Your choice of embellishments helps make your motives clear.

The need to teach what a hypothesis is to college and university students is from earlier public school grades having done such a poor job of teaching something that's supposed to very simple to begin with. Hopefully the reeducation will someday not be necessary. Thanks PBS!

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,15:59   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,15:28)
Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,15:10)
So, what is it Gary? - How come we are supposed to be the ones who want dumbed-down definitions, if you are the one  sticking with Buddy and Dinosaur Train?   Do you really want to argue that teachers at all levels are supposed to stick with preschooler-level explanations all the way through K-12 education, because anything more sophisticated than what you can handle is inappropriate "embellishment"?

Only a political hack needs more than that. Your choice of embellishments helps make your motives clear.

The need to teach what a hypothesis is to college and university students is from earlier public school grades having done such a poor job of teaching something that's supposed to very simple to begin with. Hopefully the reeducation will someday not be necessary. Thanks PBS!

It takes a very special kind of fool* to want to argue against clarifying that hypotheses are most useful when they offer a potential explanation of something**.

*And that would be you, in case you were wondering.
**Because that is remarkably obvious in practice.

However, I can see how your position could be attractive to you, given that your model fails miserably at explaining anything.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,16:34   

The following is a perfect description of my scientific work that has for many years kept me up late at night running experiments and reading the latest research information in order to help substantiate my explanation for how intelligence works:

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.


Science teachers need to beware of the definition being taken out of context by those who believe the description of the theory writing process is instead describing a tribunal that dictates whether a theory is a theory or not. In reality a theory is either useful or it's not, and where it's just plain wrong it's a "failed theory" that remains a theory even where totally bogus.

There is no scientific need at all for any of the embellishments that are being argued are necessary. They are only necessary to those who want to make it appear that they have the authority to dismiss then discredit theory, before they even test it. Not being able to understand what I'm talking about while complaining about terminology they are not used to is only a good indication of their not being able to fairly judge the theory.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,16:46   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,16:34)
The following is a perfect description of my scientific work that has for many years kept me up late at night running experiments and reading the latest research information in order to help substantiate my explanation for how intelligence works:

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.


Science teachers need to beware of the definition being taken out of context by those who believe the description of the theory writing process is instead describing a tribunal that dictates whether a theory is a theory or not. In reality a theory is either useful or it's not, and where it's just plain wrong it's a "failed theory" that remains a theory even where totally bogus.

There is no scientific need at all for any of the embellishments that are being argued are necessary. They are only necessary to those who want to make it appear that they have the authority to dismiss then discredit theory, before they even test it. Not being able to understand what I'm talking about while complaining about terminology they are not used to is only a good indication of their not being able to fairly judge the theory.

Your nonsense isn't well-substantiated, it doesn't explain anything (because it's written in gibberish), it has nothing to do with the natural world because you refuse to ground it there (preferring a fantasy video game), it wasn't acquired through the scientific method, it hasn't been repeated tested (because multiple runs of your video game don't actually test your "theory"), it's never been confirmed by anyone (having been roundly rejected by everyone but you), and no one, especially you, has ever seen anything like what you imagine in either observations or experiments.  Doesn't it hurt to fail so hard in every possible way?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,16:49   

Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,15:59)
It takes a very special kind of fool* to want to argue against clarifying that hypotheses are most useful when they offer a potential explanation of something**.

The only thing you are now claiming is that a hypothesis does not even have to explain how something works, which is true. And a hypothesis can be useful to know by having tested false (Water is most dense after having fully cooled to ice) but none of that requires embellishing the simple accepted definition of "An idea you can test".

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,16:56   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,16:34)
The following is a perfect description of my scientific work that has for many years kept me up late at night running experiments and reading the latest research information in order to help substantiate my explanation for how intelligence works:

   
Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
.


Science teachers need to beware of the definition being taken out of context by those who believe the description of the theory writing process is instead describing a tribunal that dictates whether a theory is a theory or not. In reality a theory is either useful or it's not, and where it's just plain wrong it's a "failed theory" that remains a theory even where totally bogus.

There is no scientific need at all for any of the embellishments that are being argued are necessary. They are only necessary to those who want to make it appear that they have the authority to dismiss then discredit theory, before they even test it. Not being able to understand what I'm talking about while complaining about terminology they are not used to is only a good indication of their not being able to fairly judge the theory.

Note: we aren't dismissing your ideas because they aren't a theory.  It is true that they don't qualify as a theory, because they haven't reached any level of acceptance or even of being taken seriously, but this is only relevant to your wrong claims on the subject.  We are rejecting your ideas solely because they give every appearance of being a pile of crap.

   
Quote
A scientific theory is a

So far, so good.
   
Quote
well-substantiated
 
Strike One.  Nothing about your stuff is well substantiated.
   
Quote
explanation

Strike Two: your stuff doesn't explain anything.  It just makes a bunch of assertions that appear to be wrong.
   
Quote
of some aspect of the natural world

Alright, intelligence is natural (although you are still going to have to remove the hippocampi from your insects)
[quote]that is acquired through the scientific method [quote]
Strike Three: you have made massive violations of scientific methods, standards, and practices.
   
Quote
and repeatedly tested

Your stuff is test-free - Strike Four
   
Quote
and confirmed

Hey, you are the one that wanted to apply this particular quote, so don't blame the messenger. Strike Five.
   
Quote
through observation

Averse to ground-truthing your model and making sure that it is relevant to reality, so Strike Six.
   
Quote
and experimentation

Modelling can substitute for experimentation, if they are carefully ground-truthed and made to align with reality.  However, yours isn't, and your larger claims against natural selection, for the emergence of intelligence, for intelligence without neurons and brains, for fractal self-similarity, and for both emergence and intelligent design have nothing to do with your model or with any other observations or experiments that you have done, so Strike Seven, and back to the bush leagues you go.


Quote
The only thing you are now claiming is that a hypothesis does not even have to explain how something works, which is true.
 Read what I have said all along: the PBS version is fine for kiddies (you can have hypotheses that aren't explanations).  It's just a bit too simplistic for professionals.
 
Quote
Your Buddy site says that an hypothesis is an idea that is testable.  I'd modify that slightly to "a proposed explanation that is testable" ("I have an hypothesis that elephants can't fly" is less of an hypothesis than "I have an hypothesis that elephants can't fly because they can't flap their ears fast enough"), but I'm basically fine with the PBS definition and having been using "hypothesis" consistently for testable potential explanations.  
Note "less of an hypothesis" and "basically fine with".  However, I showed that it is indeed common to add something about potential explanations, because hypotheses are much more useful that way.

 
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And a hypothesis can be useful to know by having tested false (Water is most dense after having fully cooled to ice) but none of that requires embellishing the simple accepted definition of "An idea you can test".
Have I said that disproving an hypothesis is not an advance?  I stressed "potential explanation", not "proven explanation", because the whole point of an hypothesis is that one doesn't know the outcome ahead of the test.  If you are doing it right with mutually exclusive hypotheses, 50% of your hypotheses have to fail.  However, again, you haven't done ANY hypothesis-testing, so why you are telling me about it as opposed to getting your ass in gear and doing some is a bit of a mystery.

Your example is a case in point: simple observation shows that ice floats in water, so there isn't any particular need to test an hypothesis about ice being denser than water and there is nothing to learn from the disproof of that hypothesis.  However, testing hypotheses about why ice was not denser than water led to some valuable advances in chemistry and mineralogy.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,17:12   

A theory is an explanation for how something works.

Period...

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,17:22   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,17:12)
A theory is an explanation for how something works.

Period...

That doesn't even match the definition you just quoted.  You really are just impotently flailing about aren't you?

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,17:23   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,17:12)
A theory is an explanation for how something works.

Period...

And what preschool literature did you pull that incorrect gem from?

Bolding it doesn't make it any less wrong, although it is rather funny that you think that bolding a statement refutes a contrary claim that you made only a few minutes earlier.

Your first attempt using Wikipedia was much better, even if it disproves your claim that your stuff constitutes a theory.  "A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation."

Note that what YOU quoted from Wikipedia matches very nicely with what I quoted from NAS, which you bitched and moaned about:
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In science a theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses
.

It's now down to Gary vs Gary, and ....... Gary loses.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,17:26   

To also define police detective and historical theories only the following two words of additional information need to be added:

A theory is an explanation for how something works (or happened).

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,17:29   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,17:26)
To also define police detective and historical theories only the following two words of additional information need to be added:

A theory is an explanation for how something works (or happened).


Well, so much for
Quote
Period.
 That didn't last long.

If you go with "some aspect of the natural world" you can avoid the awkward expression of "how something works (or happened)", and you could also cover "or emerges" for free.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,17:34   

Quote (Texas Teach @ April 26 2015,17:22)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,17:12)
A theory is an explanation for how something works.

Period...

That doesn't even match the definition you just quoted.  You really are just impotently flailing about aren't you?

Wikipedia is known for favoring what the anti-ID movement wants for embellishments, which in turn end up part of NSTA policy and definitions even though they are being deceptively used by political hacks who use them to take the definition out of context.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,17:39   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,17:34)
 
Quote (Texas Teach @ April 26 2015,17:22)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,17:12)
A theory is an explanation for how something works.

Period...

That doesn't even match the definition you just quoted.  You really are just impotently flailing about aren't you?

Wikipedia is known for favoring what the anti-ID movement wants for embellishments, which in turn end up part of NSTA policy and definitions even though they are being deceptively used by political hacks who use them to take the definition out of context.

Gary, YOU cited it, in an attempt to prove your point, so you don't get to complain about it now that it backfired.

It's an Own Goal, as in You Own It.


ETA: TT, Sorry for missing your earlier point about Gary contradicting himself: you posted while I was writing, and then I missed it.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2015,17:46   

Quote (N.Wells @ April 26 2015,17:39)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,17:34)
 
Quote (Texas Teach @ April 26 2015,17:22)
   
Quote (GaryGaulin @ April 26 2015,17:12)
A theory is an explanation for how something works.

Period...

That doesn't even match the definition you just quoted.  You really are just impotently flailing about aren't you?

Wikipedia is known for favoring what the anti-ID movement wants for embellishments, which in turn end up part of NSTA policy and definitions even though they are being deceptively used by political hacks who use them to take the definition out of context.

Gary, YOU cited it, in an attempt to prove your point, so you don't get to complain about it now that it backfired.

It's an Own Goal, as in You Own It.


ETA: TT, Sorry for missing your earlier point about Gary contradicting himself: you posted while I was writing, and then I missed it.

That's bound to happen since we're all part of the conspiracy.  We even got Gary to quote from our definition.

Maniacal laugh.  Maniacal laugh.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
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