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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Arden Chatfield Linguistics Chat

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Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,13:35    Ahhhhhh wife and mum jokes. Marvellous. I knew Arden could be enticed back with little effort and would come in with the old classics. Good work. How's tricks Arden? Louis -------------- Bye.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,13:38    Quote (Louis @ Mar. 03 2010,11:35) How's tricks Arden? Ah.... No. Too easy. You're purposely trying to set me up here. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,13:55    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 03 2010,18:38) Quote (Louis @ Mar. 03 2010,11:35) How's tricks Arden? Ah.... No. Too easy. You're purposely trying to set me up here. No, no. It's a genuine enquiry about how you are, phrased as ever in idomatic English. Louis -------------- Bye.

Bjarne Posts: 29 Joined: Dec. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,15:04    Quote (snoeman @ April 18 2007,06:27) Arden:   Quote It's totally relative based on what your first language is. For an English speaker, Finnish is a motherfucker. For an Estonian, it's a walk in the park. For an English speaker, Dutch is a challenge but not THAT hard. Dutch would be vastly harder for a speaker of, say, Chinese. How about Romance languages vs. Germanic languages for English speakers? I took French in highschool and German in college.  Personally, I found German much easier for me to learn than French, but I've wondered if my experience was not typical based on some anecdotal comments I've heard over the years. Out of curiosity, if it's not too silly a question, do languages exhibit any kind of patterns or preferences in how new words or concepts are added over time? (e.g., tending to adopt from other languages, creating them based upon older words (or whatever the proper way of expressing that would be)) I ask because I've always liked the German version of "vacuum cleaner," i.e., "Staubsauger" or "Dust Sucker."  Equally descriptive, and more pithy, in my opinion. I know this is pretty close to necromancy,  but... I am a native speaker of German and had both English and French at school. Languages are certainly not my strong suit, but English was, with quite some work, manageable  to learn. After having learned some basic English, it was not too alien and I did recognize many parallels to German. French on the other hand was a bitch to learn and I am barely able to understand it, let alone speak it.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,15:25    There are a few sounds in German that are difficult for a native English speaker, and German syntax sounds backwards, but much of the vocabulary and most of the sounds are familiar. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,18:22    Quote (snoeman @ April 18 2007,06:27) I ask because I've always liked the German version of "vacuum cleaner," i.e., "Staubsauger" or "Dust Sucker."  Equally descriptive, and more pithy, in my opinion. Or "glove": "Handschuh".  Heh heh. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,19:34    Quote (fnxtr @ Mar. 03 2010,19:22) Quote (snoeman @ April 18 2007,06:27) I ask because I've always liked the German version of "vacuum cleaner," i.e., "Staubsauger" or "Dust Sucker."  Equally descriptive, and more pithy, in my opinion. Or "glove": "Handschuh".  Heh heh. I've always had a fondness for the word Auspuff, meaning auto exhaust. -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 20 2010,10:29    I like this alot: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010....ng.html -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Steviepinhead Posts: 532 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 20 2010,11:45    Quote (ppb @ Mar. 03 2010,17:34) Quote (fnxtr @ Mar. 03 2010,19:22) Quote (snoeman @ April 18 2007,06:27) I ask because I've always liked the German version of "vacuum cleaner," i.e., "Staubsauger" or "Dust Sucker."  Equally descriptive, and more pithy, in my opinion. Or "glove": "Handschuh".  Heh heh. I've always had a fondness for the word Auspuff, meaning auto exhaust. I've always enjoyed the German for horse, "Pferd."  To get the full effect, you have to understand that the G. word for "pepper" is "pfeffer."  In other words, that "pf" sound is a little on the onomatopoeiac side, mimicking the sound of the plosion of air you get when you sneeze pepper, or when a horse does that knickering, lip-fluttering thing. For me, Pferd really expresses an essense of horsiness, if not, y'know, THE essence of horsiness. Or maybe I'm just hoarse from too much pf-, pf-, pfeffer...

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 20 2010,13:15    Quote (Steviepinhead @ April 20 2010,09:45) For me, Pferd really expresses an essense of horsiness, if not, y'know, THE essence of horsiness. For me, it's 'carlsonjok'. -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 20 2010,13:33    Quote (keiths @ April 20 2010,13:15) Quote (Steviepinhead @ April 20 2010,09:45) For me, Pferd really expresses an essense of horsiness, if not, y'know, THE essence of horsiness. For me, it's 'carlsonjok'. Oh yeah?!?!!?!?!?   -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Badger3k Posts: 861 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 20 2010,23:41    Quote (keiths @ April 20 2010,13:15) Quote (Steviepinhead @ April 20 2010,09:45) For me, Pferd really expresses an essense of horsiness, if not, y'know, THE essence of horsiness. For me, it's 'carlsonjok'. I saw the essence of horsiness in Tijuana once.  I think it's on the internet too.  Hopefully it cleans up easily... -------------- "Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

Steviepinhead Posts: 532 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 21 2010,01:43    Heh! Can I deliver a straight line, or what?

Robert Byers Posts: 160 Joined: Nov. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: April 21 2010,21:55    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 17 2007,22:52) Quote I know this is wrong. Nevertheless, people using 'beg the question' to mean 'suggests the question' pisses me off. Some 'new' things people say is language change. Some shit is just wrong. ;) Until EVERYONE says it. Then it's language change.     Quote     Quote 'some languages are harder than others' Well, doesn't it take longer to learn some languages, than others? It's totally relative based on what your first language is. For an English speaker, Finnish is a motherfucker. For an Estonian, it's a walk in the park. For an English speaker, Dutch is a challenge but not THAT hard. Dutch would be vastly harder for a speaker of, say, Chinese.     Quote     Quote 'Chinese characters are pictographic' Uh,...what? that's not true? No, they're logographic:     Quote The Chinese written language employs Chinese characters (??/?? pinyin: hànzì), which are logograms: each symbol represents a sememe or morpheme (a meaningful unit of language), as well as one syllable; the written language can thus be termed a morphemo-syllabic script. They are not just pictographs (pictures of their meanings), but are highly stylized and carry much abstract meaning. Only some characters are derived from pictographs. In 100 AD, the famed scholar X? Shèn in the Hàn Dynasty classified characters into 6 categories, only 4% as pictographs, and 82% as phonetic complexes consisting of a semantic element that indicates meaning, and a phonetic element that arguably once indicated the pronunciation.       Quote     Quote 'in the Appalachians they speak like Shakespeare' I've heard this one. Not true? Nope. Appalachian has rural English archaisms, and it also has weird stuff  it did on its own, which is what we'd expect. Not Shakespeare.     Quote 'black children are verbally deprived'     Quote Listening to black english does piss me off. You're far from alone, but that still doesn't mean that black children are verbally deprived or that black English is 'illogical'.     Quote     Quote 'Aborigines speak a primitive language' that seems dumb. Some 'primitive' languages are really complex. All languages are complex, most languages of 'primitive societies' are incredibly complex.   Quote ARDEN, IS IT TRUE YOU AND OTHER HOMOS LISP AND HAVE A SECRET HANDSHAKE? However, you know that notion that Englishmen all talk like homosexuals? That actually is true.  :angry: I'm glad to hear you say all languages are complex. i am a biblical creationist and indeed it could only be that all languages are equally complex in structure as they all come from a common language at babel. i believe the bible says the original language was broken into 70 languages. of coarse the Indo-European group shows the commonality of at least a portion of mankind. Yes even the most primitive tribe will have a language that is as complex as any so as to bring to words all the intelligence of man as a being in the image of God.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 21 2010,23:41    Quote (Robert Byers @ April 21 2010,19:55) I'm glad to hear you say all languages are complex. i am a biblical creationist and indeed it could only be that all languages are equally complex in structure as they all come from a common language at babel. i believe the bible says the original language was broken into 70 language I'm too tired to be tactful, so let me just say this: that's utter nonsense. You're deluded. The Tower of Babel story is a myth. Never happened. At the same level of plausibility as a flat earth. The reason all languages are complex is because all human language communities have had tens or hundreds of thousands of years for their languages to accumulate complexity. And no, the earth isn't 6,000 or 10,000 years old, either, so don't even try insulting our intelligence with that claim, okay? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Rob R. Posts: 12 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,00:03    Arden Chatfield: Quote I'm too tired to be tactful, so let me just say this: that's utter nonsense. You're deluded.  [...] On that note:  what's your take on the 'Yom Debate' (e.g., http://www.answersincreation.org/word_study_yom.htm )

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,00:28    Oh, crap, he's infested this thread too. Go away Bobby. Give us at least one venue where you don't spout your ignorant vomit. OK? Pretty please? -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Badger3k Posts: 861 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,03:25    Quote (fnxtr @ April 22 2010,00:28) Oh, crap, he's infested this thread too. Go away Bobby. Give us at least one venue where you don't spout your ignorant vomit. OK? Pretty please? Awww - I want to hear how marsupialism affected language. -------------- "Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

George Posts: 316 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,07:52    I've a kind of linguistics question: Should people who use "data" as a singular be boiled in oil, have their fingernails forcibly extracted, or have their tongues nailed to the roofs of their mouths?

Jim_Wynne Posts: 1208 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,08:35    Sure, along with the people who say "stadiums," "aquariums" and "forums."* *This is sarcasm. -------------- Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,08:42    Quote (Rob R. @ April 22 2010,00:03) Arden Chatfield:   Quote I'm too tired to be tactful, so let me just say this: that's utter nonsense. You're deluded.  [...] On that note:  what's your take on the 'Yom Debate' (e.g., http://www.answersincreation.org/word_study_yom.htm ) http://scienceblogs.com/evolutionblog/2006/08/the_dayage_theory.php -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,10:16    Arden, Harkening back to your distate for William Safire, have you encountered and is Bill Bryson's book worth the paper it is printed on? The Mother Tongue, English and How It Got That Way -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,12:20    Quote (Rob R. @ April 21 2010,22:03) Arden Chatfield:   Quote I'm too tired to be tactful, so let me just say this: that's utter nonsense. You're deluded.  [...] On that note:  what's your take on the 'Yom Debate' (e.g., http://www.answersincreation.org/word_study_yom.htm ) You can probably guess. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,12:21    Quote (George @ April 22 2010,05:52) I've a kind of linguistics question: Should people who use "data" as a singular be boiled in oil, have their fingernails forcibly extracted, or have their tongues nailed to the roofs of their mouths? Since I regularly use 'data' as a singular, I might not be judged impartial in this. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,12:22    Quote (Paul Flocken @ April 22 2010,08:16) Arden, Harkening back to your distate for William Safire, have you encountered and is Bill Bryson's book worth the paper it is printed on? The Mother Tongue, English and How It Got That Way I haven't read it, tho Bryson usually isn't an idiot at all. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,12:44    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 22 2010,10:21)   Quote (George @ April 22 2010,05:52) I've a kind of linguistics question: Should people who use "data" as a singular be boiled in oil, have their fingernails forcibly extracted, or have their tongues nailed to the roofs of their mouths? Since I regularly use 'data' as a singular, I might not be judged impartial in this. Me too.  I think the boiling oil should be reserved for people who say 'infer' when they mean 'imply'. -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,13:28    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 22 2010,12:21) Quote (George @ April 22 2010,05:52) I've a kind of linguistics question: Should people who use "data" as a singular be boiled in oil, have their fingernails forcibly extracted, or have their tongues nailed to the roofs of their mouths? Since I regularly use 'data' as a singular, I might not be judged impartial in this. http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y169432 -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

dnmlthr Posts: 565 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,14:08    I used "a winner is you" in a business meeting once. It went down surprisingly well. That was all. -------------- Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2010,20:27    Quote (keiths @ April 22 2010,12:44) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 22 2010,10:21)   Quote (George @ April 22 2010,05:52) I've a kind of linguistics question: Should people who use "data" as a singular be boiled in oil, have their fingernails forcibly extracted, or have their tongues nailed to the roofs of their mouths? Since I regularly use 'data' as a singular, I might not be judged impartial in this. Me too.  I think the boiling oil should be reserved for people who say 'infer' when they mean 'imply'. Only if there's room behind the ones who misuse literally. -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

huwp Posts: 172 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2010,06:46    FWIW  I thought Bill Bryson's book was interesting and well written and, I suspect, well researched too.  He loves the English language and that's a terribly good starting point. The "imply" and "infer" confusion is very irritating as is "disinterested" for "uninterested".  They mean different things and if we lose that difference then it diminishes the language. I do love the way English can be very precise; I once tried to explain to a class of Italian students the difference between "glance" and "glimpse" both of which, I was told, were covered by the word "occhiata" meaning "a short sight of something". Much as I love English, and French for that matter, I think my heart belongs to Italian.  And Welsh, of course. Huwp

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