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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > A Modest Proposal

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GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 22 2005,09:27    0--> Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Nov. 22 2005,120) Quote The article, until presented is a non-argument and it is impossible to dodge a non-argument.  If you have read the thread from beginning to end, then how did you miss my three-part essay detailing my argument, consisting of: 1) Cash bribes to encourage emigration of people who hate our guts 2) Heavy immigration from Europe, Israel, and Northeast Asian countries to replace our departing malcontents 3) New legislation repealing all race laws 4) Letting the resulting freedom of association weed out the bad cultures amongst our remaining malcontents  In addition, I proposed a test that anyone can do to verify that Hyperion's implications were false. Since you read the thread, surely I won't have to point out where, will I? And nobody took me up on this test.....hmmmm....veddy curious.   Now you may think my plan is naive, fascist, counterproductive, whatever; that's your right. But direct your criticisms to the real model, not to Hyperion's paranoid misrepresentations of it. But you won't, and it's for the same reason that Hyperion didn't - the model is sound, rational, sane, and chock full of supporting evidence guaranteeing its success. Which explains the existence of speech codes. Can't let anyone see the posterior of General Butt-Nekkid. The article, not the argument.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 22 2005,14:47    Quote The article, not the argument.  Oh well, the argument needed to be restated anyway, not that anyone's paying attention. And despite Hyperion cluck-cluck-clucking out on my eminently reasonable conditions, I'll cite it anyway: The article.  Now for the interesting bit: Quote In the last five years, census data show, Asians -- mostly Chinese -- have grown from 5 percent to nearly 10 percent of Brooklyn residents. In Lafayette High's neighborhood, Bensonhurst, historically home to Italian and Jewish families, more than 20 percent of residents are Asian.[my emphasis, not that the author deserves this bit]   "But Paley", you'll squeal, "our dear Erin is just providing some background detail for a little verisimilitude! Cut her some slack!"   To which I say: read the whole article. Not once, not once, is the race of the offenders mentioned. So why bring up race at all? To highlight the irony that Brooklyn has always been a haven for immigrants, and should be the last place to find violence against same?  Hey, I've heard of a bridge in the area that's up for sale.   "Oh, Paley, this is but one author! No need to jump to hasty conclusions!" How about now? Quote  Mark Talo, who taught English as a second language at Lafayette but quit at the end of the recent school year, said the assistant principal had pulled two of the three Chinese students from his classes to deliver the news.  "The atmosphere at the school was very depressing," Mr. Talo said. "It was like being in the Deep South during Jim Crow."      Once again, a slur against white people, and no mention of the race of the perpetrators. Now for the likely reason:    Ethnic Composition of Lafayette High         White                               11.8          Black                               45.8          Hispanic                           25.1          Asian and others              17.1  Now, it's possible that the BEDs were responsible for the attacks, but don't you think this bit of info would have provided a slightly different perspective to the story?    Of course, that may have been the problem. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 26 2005,08:57    GoP, Please get to the point. I have been reading this thread for a few days. I think you have valid reasoning...But please stop wasting time.

Swoosh Posts: 42 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 26 2005,09:14    Silly kids, it wont matter in fifty years or so.  Might as well work together to figure out how we're going to survive the Big Crash.  Borders, nations, flags, races, religions, blah blah blah.  Irrelevant pomp.   Time. To. Evolve.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 28 2005,05:04    Quote Silly kids, it wont matter in fifty years or so.  Might as well work together to figure out how we're going to survive the Big Crash.  Borders, nations, flags, races, religions, blah blah blah.  Irrelevant pomp.   Time. To. Evolve.   If my concerns are so much irrelevant pomp, then why are so many people on this board concerned about my plan? No national policy will make a difference, right? We might as well sit back in our rocking chairs and wait for Armageddon.... -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 28 2005,08:32    Quote GoP, Please get to the point. I have been reading this thread for a few days. I think you have valid reasoning...But please stop wasting time.  I don't know what you're referring to; if supporting one's position is a waste of time, then I'm guilty as charged. But my main point (summarised twice with no rebuttal on the horizon....) is that we should use objective criteria when deciding who gets in. The question shouldn't be: "What can we do for you?", but rather, "What will you do for us?"  The first nation that asks this question will watch its science, technology, and economy soar, while the rest of the first world devolves into Brasil or Colombia. But hey, if you want to live in a country where you have to fly to work behind a phalanx of bodyguards, it's your thing. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

ericmurphy Posts: 2460 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 28 2005,09:57    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Nov. 28 2005,14:32) The question shouldn't be: "What can we do for you?", but rather, "What will you do for us?" Hmm...I haven't been following this discussion that closely, but I was under the impression that the U.S. is already asking what Bill considers to be the correct question. For someone hoping to emigrate from, say, Canada, the winning answer might be, "I can record an album that will sell half a million copies, thereby making lots of money for TimeWarner," and for someone wanting to emigrate from Honduras, it might be "I can harvest redleaf lettuce three times as fast as your average gringo, and I'll do it for half the money. Plus, after the harvest, I'll be happy to swab out your hotel bathrooms, too." -------------- 2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity "Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 28 2005,10:57    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Nov. 28 2005,14:32) Quote GoP, Please get to the point. I have been reading this thread for a few days. I think you have valid reasoning...But please stop wasting time.  I don't know what you're referring to; if supporting one's position is a waste of time, then I'm guilty as charged. But my main point (summarised twice with no rebuttal on the horizon....) is that we should use objective criteria when deciding who gets in. The question shouldn't be: "What can we do for you?", but rather, "What will you do for us?"  The first nation that asks this question will watch its science, technology, and economy soar, while the rest of the first world devolves into Brasil or Colombia. But hey, if you want to live in a country where you have to fly to work behind a phalanx of bodyguards, it's your thing. Ahhh Well, If that is your whole point, I guess that I agree with you. I was under the impression though that the USA already had a strong imigration criteria. The UK on the other hand seems to be lacking in that area.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 28 2005,12:26    Quote Ahhh Well, If that is your whole point, I guess that I agree with you. I was under the impression though that the USA already had a strong imigration criteria. The UK on the other hand seems to be lacking in that area.       Don't forget France and pretty much the rest of Europe. Their policy seems to be: If you reside in one of our former colonies or can sneak in, welcome! America's de facto policy: If you can provide a short-term economic benefit, then come on in, and we'll even ignore the rising crime and associated burden on social services! And who cares about cultural balkanization and regression to the mean, which means your kid might be more likely to join a streetgang than play John Henry to the gringo's Ferdinand the Bull! I mean, it's not like we could get Chinese to do the work, or better yet, invent the technology that makes sweatshop labor obsolete. No, that would be plumb crazy..........     And if the Chinese won't do it, let the companies relocate. Or abolish the minimum wage. Or, like Bush, explore the idea of guest worker programs. But do something. This, in conjunction with the buyout program, will help restore one nation under God, indivisible. But you guys know this already. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 28 2005,14:33    One more thing. The genetic determinists (i.e. racists) would probably want to expel Central and South Americans from the U.S. in obeisance to racial "purity"; me, I just care about assimilation. Mestizos show some cultural potential, but the evidence suggests we restrict immigration to Asians, Jews, and Europeans for now. With the cultural and technological renewal sure to follow, we can heal the world, rendering Swoosh's scenario obsolete. And the world will bless America, and more importantly, God. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 30 2005,08:07    Lurkers, please notice the contrast between the cogent (if misguided) responses to my geocentrism paper and the strawmen/slander directed to my po' little immigration model. Or even the lack of interest (Murphy aside) in parrying my thrusts at the phylogenetic tree. Doesn't this seem to indicate that one position is, um, a little more solid than the others? But I thought that Darwinism and Liberal immigration philosophy are every bit as well established as the shape of the Earth!! That's one of the justifications for the speech laws and court decisions, right? -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Dean Morrison Posts: 216 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2005,11:35    Lurkers Ghost of Paley is a barmey old racist and 'White Nationalist' that doesn't deserve the time of day. He is not here to talk about evolution or intelligent design, and in my opinion is ignoring the rules of the board. Please ignore this troll in future.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2005,08:37    The Yenta sniveled: Quote Lurkers Ghost of Paley is a barmey old racist and 'White Nationalist' that doesn't deserve the time of day. He is not here to talk about evolution or intelligent design, and in my opinion is ignoring the rules of the board. Please ignore this troll in future.  Lurkers, please notice the blantant smear tactics and attempts to have Paley silenced. And that nobody, not even Sir Wiggles, admonished the Yenta for stifling the free exchange of ideas. A reminder from Jesus: Quote MT 7:1 Judge not, that ye may not be judged; MT 7:2 for with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you. MT 7:3 But why lookest thou on the mote that is in the eye of thy brother, but observest not the beam that is in thine eye? MT 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Allow [me], I will cast out the mote from thine eye; and behold, the beam is in thine eye? MT 7:5 Hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine eye, and then thou wilt see clearly to cast out the mote out of the eye of thy brother.  Couldn't have said it better myself. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Dean Morrison Posts: 216 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2005,11:18    In the spirit of Christmas I'll forgive you barmy old racist: if I'd realised that you thought that the earth was the centre of the universe; and that the world was 6000 years old; I wouldn't have taunted you so much as you are obviously past help. As my mum used to say 'stop picking your scabs!' - couldn't have put it better myself.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2005,03:40    Quote In the spirit of Christmas I'll forgive you barmy old racist: if I'd realised that you thought that the earth was the centre of the universe; and that the world was 6000 years old; I wouldn't have taunted you so much as you are obviously past help.  And since you can't respond to (let alone refute) my arguments, what does that say about you? -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 03 2006,10:32    Every good model should make predictions. My model predicts that immigrants drawn from countries which are culturally distinct from Western Civilisation will have a difficult time adjusting to the host country. And now, there are some signs that Canada's violent crime is rising:               Quote In Canada, guns and gangs are a relatively new phenomenon, particularly in Toronto, known as "Toronto the Good" for its traditionally safe streets and low homicide rates. There were 52 deadly handgun shootings in the city in 2005, compared with 12 in 1995. Police and social workers alike attribute the acts largely to young black males - many of whom are the children of West Indian immigrants - who feel marginalized and drop out of school early to join the "gangsta" culture where they make quick money through drugs, guns, or prostitution. What makes this interesting is that most of Canada's non-white immigrants are Chinese and East Indians; yet the criminals are largely Jamaican immigrants who've adopted the gangsta lifestyle of African Americans. Hmmmm......the Chinese, Indians, and Jews are assimilating nicely, while those who reject Western Values aren't. What a shock! Who'd have thunk it......??? A wise person wrote: Quote It's a tough burden - always being so darn correct.  It's a lonely destiny. But somebody's got to do it! -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 03 2006,10:43    gees, only took you six months to respond! that's uh, great... did you go out and buy some shovels, and figure they can be used to dig up rotted corpses as well as to shovel s*it? Quote A wise person wrote: Quote   It's a tough burden - always being so darn correct.  It's a lonely destiny. But somebody's got to do it interesting... now where did i just see that... hmm... -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 03 2006,10:49    By the way, I won't do my political thing until I produce more of the geocentric model, but I've been wanting to dump my political stuff here for some time. Wes should be OK as long as I'm not creating a new thread for my rants....besides, it's got the older stuff for those who want some background. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Faid Posts: 1143 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 03 2006,15:35    Ghost: You went on and on about how you needed to have time to work on just one of your promises, and even suggested to be banned from other threads, and declared that you'd answer only to those two or three people you had the debates with first, so you wouldn't get distracted... And finally, after you post some vague math and not even a crude sketch of your model, you revive another, clearly provoking, thread on a subject you know is heated, and will be debated with zeal. And why would you do that, If you didn't want to discuss this now? But I suppose it's ok because you're "good at multitasking", like you said then. Yeah, right. How about opening a couple more threads then, to discuss Tiktaalik and guts-to-gametes and scale-free networks, Mr. Dualcore? Spare me, Ghost. I'm not biting. Work on disproving all aspects of modern astronomy and physics, and leave your political rants for another time. -------------- A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty: "The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information" "...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

ericmurphy Posts: 2460 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 03 2006,20:36    So…how about that Parallax, Bill? -------------- 2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity "Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,12:44    Guys - Asking prisoners about their religion is like asking teenage boys about their sexual activity. The only difference is, prisoners lie to get out while teenagers lie to get in. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

thordaddy Posts: 486 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,13:14    GoP, I think your larger point is that when science mixes with liberal politics, science always gets corrupted?

ericmurphy Posts: 2460 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,13:17    Okay, let's only talk about people whose religious beliefs were known before they got to prison. Then let's look at those whose religious affiliations are known after they get out. Surely it's not hard to figure out who goes to church and who doesn't. Likely there are plenty of religious people who don't go to church, but I doubt there are many agnostics/atheists who do. -------------- 2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity "Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,14:55    eric:               Quote Okay, let's only talk about people whose religious beliefs were known before they got to prison. Then let's look at those whose religious affiliations are known after they get out.             I guess we could, but basically I'm not a big fan of taking anything a criminal says seriously, even if it supports my point of view. For example, I'm sure if you charted criminal behavior against the tendency to embrace Islam among American citizens lacking a Middle Eastern background, you'd probably find a positive correlation between the two. Aha! Islam leads to evil deeds, correct? Problem is, many Americans "embrace" Islam to symbolise their cultural withdrawal from mainstream society. A disconnect from mainstream America often signals a dislike for Judeo-Christian values. And what personality tends to actively oppose normative Judeo-Christian values? Why, the criminal personality, of course. In other words, Islam soaks up a wide range of political/racial/ideological malcontents who are eager to commit crime anyway, and are just looking for a trigger. The religion is just a convenient way to tweak mainstream society.             Or take a hardcore sociopath like Ted Bundy. If I recall, he was a conservative atheist. (Even if he wasn't, the following still holds.) The atheism must have driven him to a life of crime, right? But most psychologists agree that sociopaths suffer from an extreme narcissisim that blots out everyone else. Someone with that mindset isn't going to kneel before God, regardless of his religion's charms. To conclude that atheism drives criminal behavior in this case would be to get the chain of causation precisely backwards. So while I do believe that atheistic philosophy harms society in the long run, I reject a simplistic link between religion and criminal behavior. thordaddy:       Quote GoP, I think your larger point is that when science mixes with liberal politics, science always gets corrupted? I try never to say "always".    But it is true that liberalism rejects logic that opposes its fuzzy nature, and in that sense it functions as a religion. If you study liberal philosophy, you'll see that it's underwritten by an naive belief that happy thoughts are true thoughts, and that hope can be made flesh. I can't think of a more counterproductive approach to truth than that. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,14:58    *sigh* now if only you could spin your feux models as fast as you spin your projections, you could be far more productive. Hey, you promised that if there was a vote on a preference for your "models" that you'd work on whatever was voted for. giving up already? that's not like you. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,15:06    Quote Hey, you promised that if there was a vote on a preference for your "models" that you'd work on whatever was voted for. giving up already? that's not like you. Ya'll didn't meet the 18-vote minimum. But nevertheless, I'll continue to work on my model. Why give up when nobody's given me a reason to do so?? I'm more optimistic than ever! -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,15:17    more like in more denial than ever... -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,20:39    Quote (thordaddy @ June 06 2006,18:14) GoP, I think your larger point is that when science mixes with liberal politics, science always can gets corrupted? Edited for precision.

Renier Posts: 276 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 07 2006,00:23    GOP, I don't really care for this discussion, but one little irk I have. An appeal to Authority is fine and valid in an argument. This is NOT a fallacy. However, there is a fallacy known as "The FALSE appeal to Authority". Example of a VALID appeal to authority: 1) Prof in Physics, Dr X stated that GR is … Example of the fallacy 1) Prof in Biology, Prof Y stated that GR is … Get the idea? Oh, oh, one more sample of the fallacy, for say, a discussion in Biology. 1) The Bible states that … Get it yet?

Dean Morrison Posts: 216 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 11 2006,03:40    I wondered what had happened to the barmy old racist? Realised you couldn't pull the wool over peoples eyes with the Googletrawled math then GOP?... and you ran away from  'guts to gametes' a long time ago. Thought you might be on safer ground with a bit of racism? You really are a tiresome old man.

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