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nuytsia



Posts: 131
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2006,22:32   

Quote (guthrie @ Nov. 04 2006,19:33)
   
Quote (jeannot @ Nov. 02 2006,17:45)
   
Quote (guthrie @ Nov. 02 2006,15:20)
     
Quote (ScaryFacts @ Nov. 02 2006,14:39)
     
Quote (jeannot @ Nov. 02 2006,14:26)

It is my understanding that humans have hair designed for swimming while chimps do not (IIRC.)

I suggest replacing the word "designed" with the word "optimised".  That would help remove any doubt about design and designers from the statement.

I really don't think that swimming was a selective factor in our lineage. I would imagine that our low pilosity is somewhat linked to our clothes, but it doesn't seem to fit with those who don't wear any (maybe their ancestors?).

There was that aquatic ape hypothesis floating around a few decades ago, though IIRC it has not gianed a large following even now. (snip)


There's a bit on the aquatic ape hypothesis at Wikipedia.

About two years ago I read Clive Bromhalls "The Eternal Child" that argues a good portion of differences between humans and chimps can be explained by extended neotype. Of course he then takes this argument for a really long scenic stroll. Still it does seem to answer a lot of points and the differences between fetal and adult skulls of chimps are interesting.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has heard anything on the merits of this idea?

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2006,23:28   

The Wickipedia page does a pretty good job of discussing  the Aquatic Ape theory, so I just have a few things to add: My focus as an undergrad was in physical anthro, and I went to the yearly meetings for that (AAPA) and  anthro in general (AAA meetings), and I can honestly say I never met a single proponent of the Aquatic Ape Theory, although Phil Tobias...who I think is still at the U. of Witwatersrand in South Africa...is said by the Wikipedia links to support it somewhat moderately...which I sure as #### never knew.

Beyond the speculation you see (and VERY few additional supporting "discoveries,") the AAT has pretty much remained just as ethereal as it ever was. I'll stick with riparian environments and savannah transient living for early hominoid -->hominid stuff, but "riparian " doesn't mean "aquatic ape" for me.

This is a good dissection of Elaine Morgan's last foray into the murky waters: http://www.aquaticape.org/aahbook.html

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 05 2006,14:23   

Couldn't adaptations for swimming have come about from occasional swimming, without needing the near continuous swimming implied by the aquatic ape theory?

Henry

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 05 2006,16:48   

Quote
Couldn't adaptations for swimming have come about from occasional swimming, without needing the near continuous swimming implied by the aquatic ape theory?

Henry


Hehe.... would a creo answer for the AAT be "Then why do we still have boats?"

The following comments are completely without any intended sarcasm so bare with me and dip a toe.

Do we actually have any adaptations for swimming?
Offspring that can't fend for themselves for say the first 12 years ,may not be giving the beginnings of culture, tool making (millions of years old) and language, enough credit
Most mammals seem to be able to swim if the need arises. Maybe being able to swim is just a happy accident, a consequence of having our noses in the right place...maybe.
Besides...never underestimate the power of the naked form in water for both males and females.
Even in mythology, the girl by the well is a repeating meme, as is water itself which symbolically represents the feminine, so I think water played an important role in  why we are the way we are without resorting to half evolving into dolphins a comparison of time lines may give the  best answers.

We do have one unique ability that other animals don't and that is our ability to control water and the diverse environments  we can range to. The Australian aboriginal was able to move across vast desert hunting grounds all by cultural control of water passed down through story telling (dream time myth) that laid out the landscape as a 'story map'. Water was available in  springs that had to be dug up or trapped in rock wells and accessed with a string and bark bucket made from materials close to hand.
Anyway just a thought.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2010,22:00   

Do any of you wonder how The Design of Life has been greeted in the marketplace? You remember this book, it is the stunning-even formidable-account of intelligent design by William Dembski and Jonathon Wells.

It was released back in November of 2007, with an initial printing run of 10,000 units.  Well, as of August of 2010, after almost 3 years on the market, they have sold a total of 6,000 copies.  

It has, as predicted, taken the national conversation about it (ID) to unprecedented levels............of boredom.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2010,07:33   

Quote
When future intellectual historians list the books that toppled Darwin's theory, The Design of Life will be at the top....Michael Behe

Well if anyone's an expert on piles of books, it's Behe.
Quote
With 98 book reviews on Amazon.com, it's a safe bet that thousands more readers have read DoL online.

Well if anyone's an expert on safe bets it's......

They write themselves.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2010,08:30   

Perhaps they haven't yet posted all the sales from the Church Bake Sales and Basement Rummage Sales! :)

That's got to kick the sales for This ID Blockbuster up at least 10-20.

Or maybe it's a lot LIKE Blockbuster with a sales model from the 60's.

Just wait until Dembski and Wells get their Electric Buggy Whip perfected.

edited for sp

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2010,08:23   

1) The entire book is not free on Google books.  I hit the veiwing limit after about 9 pages.

2) I still didn't see a calculation for anything regarding information.

3) There was no cite list (at least in the ToC or on the pages I could view).

sigh...

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
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