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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Weird Beliefs

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,19:24    The other day I'm sitting in a coffeeshop across from UNC and I overheard a guy tell his friend a shocking fact. "Mister Rogers was a Marine sniper in Vietnam. Yeah, he really was. Thirty-four confirmed kills." This amazing fact is very popular--I've personally heard it at least 3 times. But anybody who bothered to check this would know it's nonsense. It would be nice to just say, 'Well, that guy's stupid'. But I've heard these kinds of things from young and old, rich and poor, smart and stupid alike. Why do people so easily believe things? And how does this sort of thing show up among creationists or evolutionists?

qetzal Posts: 311 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,19:37    Quote (stevestory @ April 04 2007,19:24) Why do people so easily believe things? In a case like this, I think there's a desire to believe because it makes for a cool "fact" to tell one's friends. Knowing interesting things makes you seem more interesting and knowledgable to others. Quote And how does this sort of thing show up among creationists or evolutionists? For some people, there's the additional motivation that some "facts" confirm what we want to be true. Most of us are more willing to believe things that already fit our preconceptions.

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,09:19    Mr Rogers wasn't a sniper, that is so dumb.  He was an explosives expert. :-) -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,09:25    One thing I'm reading about on the RD forums is the persistent myth about historical Jesus being based on historical Mithras and many other gods of the time. It seems like this persistent idea is actually wrong and we atheists (myself included) have been a tad naughty by spreading it. Caveat: I know next to nothing about this stuff, so I am really not a good judge. What I AM going to do is read me some books! I'll get back to you in a few years. Louis P.S. Thread here. -------------- Bye.

guthrie Posts: 696 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,09:46    Quote (Louis @ April 05 2007,09:25) One thing I'm reading about on the RD forums is the persistent myth about historical Jesus being based on historical Mithras and many other gods of the time. It seems like this persistent idea is actually wrong and we atheists (myself included) have been a tad naughty by spreading it. Caveat: I know next to nothing about this stuff, so I am really not a good judge. What I AM going to do is read me some books! I'll get back to you in a few years. Louis P.S. Thread here. You fool! Spreading false beliefs! Anyway, I thought everyone agreed there is a good chance there was a historical Jesus, but that all the accoutrements for the church were borrowed from MIthraism to increase Christianities popularity.

phonon Posts: 396 Joined: Nov. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,09:55    Quote (guthrie @ April 05 2007,09:46) Anyway, I thought everyone agreed there is a good chance there was a historical Jesus, but that all the accouterments for the church were borrowed from Mithraism to increase Christianities popularity. Everyone? What's the evidence that supports a historical Jesus? besides the Bible? And I've heard that Anderson Cooper is a CIA agent and the Wolf Blitzer is a Mossad agent. It must be true! -------------- With most men, unbelief in one thing springs from blind belief in another. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,10:02    Guthrie and Phonon, Ah the old "everyone thought" jobby. Like I said I am far, far too ignorant of the topic to have an informed opinion. I suggest checking that RDF thread. Jerome makes a very good case, not watertight but very good. I think it behooves us as atheists and skeptics (assuming you are part of the clan, ANOTHER secret handshake) to actually research these things a bit better. I'm happy to admit I was wrong and learn more about a topic I knew little about. It doesn't strike me as a massive problem to learn that you were wrong about something and correct it. Seems to me like that's a GOOD thing. Eh, what do I know! Louis -------------- Bye.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,10:21    heard that Bill Dembski was a mathematician. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,11:12    And I've heard that his father taught evolutionary biology. Well, perhaps this is OT but I need to vent – I swear I won’t get apoplectic this time – but there I am after midnight last night, sipping wine and watching an interview with Jeffrey Dahmer and his dad, you know, to relax before bed/work/school/bed/work/school… And suddenly, Dahmer turns to his dad: “And thank God you sent me that creation science book! I was raised [turning now back to the breathless reporter] to believe that the LIE of evolution was true! That we all came FROM THE SLIME! It CHEAPENS life!” *Spew!* JHC, can I get away from this shit for five minutes? Like Jeffrey Dahmer has any insight into himself. Then he and his father went on a long tear about “There was a time when I did not have any religious beliefs… I think it would have made a difference… I believe that our Lord died for our sins…” Yakkity-yak. I'm mean it doesn't really matter whether Jesus was based upon the historical Mithras or not, does it? It's self-perpetuating, and that's the real issue. Kristine points her remote at the screen. *Click* -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,11:24    Kristine, I agree it doesn't really matter what the answer to the Jesus/Mithras question is. What DOES matter is that if I am, or anyone else is, going to present an argument then we owe it to ourselves and everyone else to do the best job we can. Many of us atheists, myself included, have spread the "Jesus is derived from local gods etc" myth, now IF this is true we are duty bound to make sure we can support this on the evidence. If it ain't true, we stop spreading it. The "Jesus/Mithras" example is only that, an example, and perhaps not a good one. The real point is about standards of evidence, humility and honesty. That's valuable for dumb issues like the one above and vital issues like the nature and mechanisms of the self perpetuating myth. Louis -------------- Bye.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,12:00    Wait, you mean that Dark Side of the Moon isn't synchronised to The Wizard of Oz?   -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,12:17    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ April 05 2007,12:00) Wait, you mean that Dark Side of the Moon isn't synchronised to The Wizard of Oz?  :( Quick, to the Explanatory Filter, Boy wonder... -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,12:27    Quote (Richardthughes @ April 05 2007,19:17) Quick, to the Explanatory Filter, Boy wonder... Holy pointless attempt to cover up the past and be falsely ingratiating Batman! -------------- Bye.

phonon Posts: 396 Joined: Nov. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,19:50    Louis, can you point me to this thread you speak of? I don't know what you're talking about. -------------- With most men, unbelief in one thing springs from blind belief in another. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,21:39    This is what I was thinking of, Rob Price's ideas - I've never heard anyone say that Jesus was derived only from Mithras, so maybe I misunderstood you, Louis. But this particular resource doesn't mention Mithras at all. (?) Oh well, it's a good introduction to his ideas anyway. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 06 2007,05:57    Phonon, Sure. I posted the link upthread in my first post on this topic, it's hidden in the word "here" at the end of the post. At least it is if I haven't fucked up the linky, which given my woeful IT incompetence is possible I admit! --------------- Kristine, I don't think that Mithras only = christ was ever on the cards, forgive me if I miscommunicated. I think the pervasive myth is that there are these massive concordances between the mythology. As far as I can tell thus far, if one examines the basis for those claims the concordances don't hold up. Although, again, I will mention the obvious caveat that I am massively new to the topic and I hadn't examined it before so my opinion is entirely nugatory! Louis -------------- Bye.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 06 2007,09:25    Some of us talk out our "Dembski's", and some of us just get things done.  The following link tells you all you need to know about Mithras - which is basically just another geo-centric astrological believing religion.   http://www.well.com/~davidu/mithras.html However, the early Christian religion did borrow many of it's special holidays from the Roman's, and other religions, so we have Christmas clebrated at Saturnalia, and Easter at the Spring Equinox time etc. (Most old-timey religions celebrated in the spring/fall for obvious reasons... You get a bad harvest you are screwed, only they figured, they were screwed by the gods... Funny how the more things change, the more they remain the same - with a BIG shout out to Pat Roberston for his outstanding recollection of old-time religions when the Dover verdict came out.  What a tool. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 06 2007,09:30    Oh I don't doubt that there has been syncretism and all that good cherry picking of the best bits of other religions from our antique christian chums. All I'm saying is I don't think it's as neat as has been presented elsewhere and since we are the Good Guys ™ it behooves us to make sure we're being accurate and all that kind of thing. Louis -------------- Bye.

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