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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,12:29   

Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,13:26)
Quote
The rules of ID already strongly resemble MC.


ID has rules?

Just one: "Don't say God".

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,12:46   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 15 2009,12:29)
Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,13:26)
Quote
The rules of ID already strongly resemble MC.


ID has rules?

Just one: "Don't say God".

But there are LOTS of corollaries....

#1.  Don't Touch Teh Sweater

#2.  Everybody is out to get us.

#3.  It's a Big Tent, so don't ask questions.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Rrr



Posts: 146
Joined: Nov. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,13:59   

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 15 2009,12:46)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 15 2009,12:29)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,13:26)
 
Quote
The rules of ID already strongly resemble MC.


ID has rules?

Just one: "Don't say God".

But there are LOTS of corollaries....

#1.  Don't Touch Teh Sweater

#2.  Everybody is out to get us.

#3.  It's a Big Tent, so don't ask questions.

I can haz Epic Fany? AHA!

Big Tent - Big Sweater - Big Secret around ID of De DR DesigneR Dimself.

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,15:46   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 15 2009,18:29)
Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,13:26)
Quote
The rules of ID already strongly resemble MC.


ID has rules?

Just one: "Don't say God".

Thou shalt fleece the rubes
Thou shalt love it so

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,16:22   

Quote (dnmlthr @ Jan. 15 2009,16:46)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 15 2009,18:29)
Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,13:26)
 
Quote
The rules of ID already strongly resemble MC.


ID has rules?

Just one: "Don't say God".

Thou shalt fleece the rubes
Thou shalt love it so

Those are only theories.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,16:35   

Look like facts to me.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,16:38   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 15 2009,17:35)
Look like facts to me.

Teach the controversy!

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,17:19   

Quote
Thou shalt fleece the rubes


By pulling the wool over their eyes?

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,19:11   

Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,17:19)
Quote
Thou shalt fleece the rubes


By pulling the wool over their eyes?

No, by posting Bahhhh My Book Links.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,19:26   

Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,15:19)
 
Quote
Thou shalt fleece the rubes


By pulling the wool over their eyes?

I'm surprised no one has previously offered this explanation of Bill's Sweater.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,22:24   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 15 2009,19:26)
Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,15:19)
   
Quote
Thou shalt fleece the rubes


By pulling the wool over their eyes?

I'm surprised no one has previously offered this explanation of Bill's Sweater.

I always assumed that sweater was a polyester blend from the bargain bin at K-Mart.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,22:45   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Jan. 15 2009,23:24)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 15 2009,19:26)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,15:19)
   
Quote
Thou shalt fleece the rubes


By pulling the wool over their eyes?

I'm surprised no one has previously offered this explanation of Bill's Sweater.

I always assumed that sweater was a polyester blend from the bargain bin at K-Mart.

I thought 'the sweater' was hand knit by a female relative.

Can someone here reverse engineer and reproduce 'the sweater'?

Crap, I'm willing to pay for it.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
Laminar_



Posts: 14
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,04:44   

All my posts at UD over the last few days have got through the censor except one.  It seems that Andrew Sibley doesn't like having his little bubble of smug moral superiority burst so in the discussion on "will scientists and creationists spoil darwins party" he posted the following:

   
Quote

The idea idea that it is acceptable to ‘utterly detest’ someone is so Darwinian. I have often found in discussions with Darwinists that there is little conscience to respect their fellow man. ...


and when I tried to assail his supposedly unassailable point with this:

   
Quote

I'm sorry to be blunt Andrew but given the number of religious people I have encountered who not only ‘utterly detest’ other people but exhibit pure hatred expressed with violence that I'm afraid I find your statement  bizarre.


it just disappeared into the ether...perhaps god told him to ditch it... Or perhaps what he means by "little conscience to respect their fellow man" is actually "refusal to agree with everything I say".

Incidentally, for those who don't already know, Andrew is a member of the creation science movement in the uk:
https://www.csm.org.uk/index.php
their statement of faith makes for interesting reading and I'm assuming he subscribes to it.

I saw a talk by one of his co-csm'ers, David Rosevear, a few years back in Brighton.  Amongst the titbits we were drip fed was the fact that 'if you believe in evolution then you must want to kill your grandparents' and 'according to gay people 75 percent of gay people are child molesters', oh and something about how maybe the evolutionists were right about one thing because black people are more like monkeys than us.  I seem to remember some audible intake of breath from some of the audience at this point.

...wait, what was that Andrew...

 
Quote

“By their fruit you will know them."


I went out and bought a dictaphone shortly afterwards just in case another talk crops up in my locality.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,05:41   

Quote (Weasbl @ Jan. 15 2009,15:59)
Quote (Louis @ Jan. 15 2009,04:35)
   
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 14 2009,21:32)
   
Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 14 2009,13:00)
BTW - I think the Klingon word for "ass" is "Iks'bmed".

HA HA THIS IS YOU:


I might favour the occasional game of Mornington Crescent, but at least I've never stooped to learning Klingon.

I think I am exempt from any nerd related humour from this point on, a new target has been found!

;-)

Louis

I must thank J-Dog for graciously taking flak that should have been directed at me.  As his comment indicates, he has not learned the first thing about the phonological constraints on Klingon vocables, having apparently found other pursuits more worthy of his time.

Actually, learning Klingon is an amusing intellectual exercise, and harmless as long as one don't take it to extremes (by, say, acquiring a complete Klingon wardrobe or teaching the language to one's children).  This is certainly more than can be said of ID.

BTW I find the implication of sexual frustration thoroughly uncalled-for, but then you know J-Dog better than I do.

Hi and welcome!

Don't worry about us, and especially the mockery, we very rarely mean it. After all, in reality Arden's mother is a saint, Carlson doesn't do those things to horses, and Steve Story never drinks alcohol. You've just managed to emerge at a time and place where we are mocking each other mercilessly. Please don't take any of it seriously.

As for Klingon being an intellectual exercise, yes indeedy, but given that a) I am from the UK, b) most of my countrymen struggle with English let alone another language and c) I am always embarrassed when I go abroad to find my countrymen blissfully ignorant of another tongue and arrogantly expecting the world to speak English, I think that Klingon and other fictional languages are icing on an already huge cake. I would prefer that people spent their effort on learning the languages of their neighbours rather than the people in their heads. But then I am a miserable bastard, so what do I know! ;-)

I would also definitely agree that learning Klingon is infinitely more productive an intellectual exercise than learning IDC. And J-Dog's sexual issues are his own, and mostly related to caveman foreplay.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,05:52   

[SNIP] For reasons that will become obvious.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,05:53   

Quote (Marion Delgado @ Jan. 15 2009,17:34)
Quote (Louis @ Jan. 15 2009,04:35)
I might favour the occasional game of Mornington Crescent, but at least I've never stooped to learning Klingon.

I think I am exempt from any nerd related humour from this point on, a new target has been found!

;-)

Louis

Louis:

You won't recall this, but a long time ago, maybe years? I said Mornington Crescent should become the official antievolution game for UD critics.

Because Mornington Crescent is the telic target of the evolution of creationism. The rules of ID already strongly resemble MC.

And of course, now that Behe and then Dembski have had their time in the sun, I plan to make a killing writing the definitive Next Wave creationist book and textbook supplements, based on MC. I am going to be a multiple doctorate senior fellow at the DI and you cannot stop me!

Just think, SC->CS->ID->MC

And this will of course boost tourism around MC tube station, which will become a telic shrine,  as well as the careers of Belle and Sebastian and My Life Story, so everyone wins.

Now you remind me I remember! ;-)

I would argue that the rules of MC strongly resemble the scientific research of IDC in that any day now they will be published in full.

In fact I can proudly present to you now, in this awe inspiring post, the full and complete rules of Mornington Crescent AND the full and complete detail of all scientific research conducted for IDC.

Bear with me, it's a huge amount of copying an pasting, but it will be worth it. Ok, I think I'm ready:

The Full and Complete Rules of Mornington Crescent, Being a Complete Description of the Proper Execution of the Game of Mornington Crescent by Stovold et al., 1749, London



There are no rules to Mornington Crescent



There, did you get all that? And now for IDC:

An Exhaustive Review of the Science of Intelligent Deisgn, Dembski et al., 2009, Outside the Baylor Cafeteria



ID isn't science it's just warmed over creationism and they've never done any fucking research anyway, they're merely a bunch of religious charlatans making a quick, dishonest buck off of the deluded and ignorant overly religious public of the USA



Well there you have it folks, full and complete details of two of the great mysteries of our times. Nobel prize: I expects it.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,05:55   

Hmmm, for some reason the copying and pasting I did above with the full rules of MC and the full research output of ID seems to have gone wrong.

I'll get onto our technical department and get back to you.

Sorry for any inconvenience, but they will both be published any day now, I assure you.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,09:35   

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 16 2009,03:55)
Hmmm, for some reason the copying and pasting I did above with the full rules of MC and the full research output of ID seems to have gone wrong.

I'll get onto our technical department and get back to you.

Sorry for any inconvenience, but they will both be published any day now, I assure you.

Louis



--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,09:48   

DaveScot leaves a gift for my grandchildren in the form of a prediction. We all know how well Scooter predicts things.

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Laminar_



Posts: 14
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,10:13   

Ribosome a diligent proofreader

Quote

23

DaveScot

01/15/2009

11:47 pm

Laminar

I’ve been working with computer automated equipment all my life. What Barry was trying to say is that nanobots can only respond as they’re instructed. If the programmer doesn’t anticipate any specific contingency the robot won’t be able to invent an appropriate response to it. If we look at “evolution” as the programmer of these nanobots, and we take into account that evolution is reactive, not proactive, it can’t program reactions into the bots for future contingencies, anticipating different possible future situations is proactive and being proactive is something that only intelligent agents do. So Barry rightfully says the nanobot does the only thing it can do which is pass a perfect copy or destroy an imperfect copy. It can’t make any independent decisions.



He is talking about protein manufacture and error rejection and appears to end up saying that the mechanism in question is a product of evolution because evolution couldn't evolve a cleverer mechanism than the one that exists.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,10:17   

Quote (Laminar_ @ Jan. 16 2009,10:13)
Ribosome a diligent proofreader

 
Quote

23

DaveScot

01/15/2009

11:47 pm

Laminar

I’ve been working with computer automated equipment all my life. What Barry was trying to say is that nanobots can only respond as they’re instructed. If the programmer doesn’t anticipate any specific contingency the robot won’t be able to invent an appropriate response to it. If we look at “evolution” as the programmer of these nanobots, and we take into account that evolution is reactive, not proactive, it can’t program reactions into the bots for future contingencies, anticipating different possible future situations is proactive and being proactive is something that only intelligent agents do. So Barry rightfully says the nanobot does the only thing it can do which is pass a perfect copy or destroy an imperfect copy. It can’t make any independent decisions.



He is talking about protein manufacture and error rejection and appears to end up saying that the mechanism in question is a product of evolution because evolution couldn't evolve a cleverer mechanism than the one that exists.

Isn't he also arguing against his long-held cherished belief in front-loading? (Cuz it's just toooo hard....)

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Rrr



Posts: 146
Joined: Nov. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,10:20   

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 16 2009,05:55)
Hmmm, for some reason the copying and pasting I did above with the full rules of MC and the full research output of ID seems to have gone wrong.

I'll get onto our technical department and get back to you.

Sorry for any inconvenience, but they will both be published any day now, I assure you.

Louis

Thanks, but I did get the gist of it. Just ran the muse across, and the complete wisdom appeared like majik. (I can has Noble sharez?)

Spiritus ex machina!

(Hope I spoiled no joke by misstake; if so please delete)

  
KCdgw



Posts: 376
Joined: Sep. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,10:29   

Quote
#3.  It's a Big Tent, so don't ask questions.


Unspoken subcorollary to #3: Once the ID movement is in power, the Catholic and Moonie Iders will be the first put up against a wall.

KC

--------------
Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,10:46   

Quote (dvunkannon @ Jan. 16 2009,09:48)
DaveScot leaves a gift for my grandchildren in the form of a prediction. We all know how well Scooter predicts things.

Quote
I will now make a prediction from an ID perspective. Any living organisms found on Mars will be based on DNA and ribosomes essentially identical to what all life on earth utilizes. This is because life, even the simplest forms, is too complex to have originated in our solar system very early in its history.


Hey, it's a prediction, It's science.

I'm thinking it might take less than twenty years to find out.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
GCUGreyArea



Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,10:49   

Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 15 2009,12:26)
 
Quote
The rules of ID already strongly resemble MC.


ID has rules?

No, ID has commandments, ten of them, here they are (although some IDOlogians disagree over their exact composition):

1  I am the one true explanation, you shall have no other explanations before me.
2  You shall not make fun of ID.
3  Remember the sweater and keep it full of holes.
4  Honor the father of ID and the mother of IC.
5  You shall not give ID proponents the sack.
6  You shall not agree with darwinists.
7  You shall take other peoples research and present it as evidence against evolution.
8  You shall not bear false witness, unless talking about evolution or anything.
9  You shall not covet a scientists rationality.
10 You shall not covet facts that contradict our world view.

   
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,10:52   

Quote (Laminar_ @ Jan. 16 2009,10:13)
Quote

23

DaveScot

01/15/2009

11:47 pm

Laminar

I’ve been working with computer automated equipment all my life. What Barry was trying to say is that nanobots can only respond as they’re instructed. If the programmer doesn’t anticipate any specific contingency the robot won’t be able to invent an appropriate response to it.

Davey clearly never heard of Rodney Brooks.  Then again, Davey clearly never heard of a lot of things.

  
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,11:24   

Quote
Any living organisms found on Mars will be based on DNA and ribosomes essentially identical to what all life on earth utilizes. This is because life, even the simplest forms, is too complex to have originated in our solar system very early in its history.


Why couldn't the aliens that seeded life have used a mechanism more similar to that which exists in their own bodies? You know, the one that allows aliens to exist by simple means, not requiring a God and not requiring infinite regression?  

It would make more sense to base life on their own simple chemistry - after all, it enabled them to achieve far greater intelligence than we can aspire to.

Also, does something which is designed have to be almost identical to every other thing that is designed? Cars are designed by intelligent designers; Therefore, ID predicts that life on Mars should resemble cars.

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,11:38   

Life on Mars should resemble Ray Walston. ;)

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,11:42   

Quote (steve_h @ Jan. 16 2009,11:24)
Also, does something which is designed have to be almost identical to every other thing that is designed? Cars are designed by intelligent designers; Therefore, ID predicts that life on Mars should resemble cars.



--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2009,12:30   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 16 2009,15:35)
Quote (Louis @ Jan. 16 2009,03:55)
Hmmm, for some reason the copying and pasting I did above with the full rules of MC and the full research output of ID seems to have gone wrong.

I'll get onto our technical department and get back to you.

Sorry for any inconvenience, but they will both be published any day now, I assure you.

Louis


It is very frustrating not to be able to bring the full details of these epic things to public attention.

I share your lethal anticipation.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
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