Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::The Bathroom Wall

Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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<blockquote>WilliamWallace:

Answer the question, Jackelope. Was it dishonest of you to put quotes around dishonest?</blockquote>

<blockquote>Jackelope King:

I asked first, Willy.</blockquote>

Actually, not only that, but in comment #149612, you actually did answer him.

Jackelope King

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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<blockquote>
phantomreader42:

Remember, for Cowardheart, it's not really lying if you're Lying For Jesus™!

Is there anything that will stop this moron from repeating a lie? He's STILL throwing around the "gate crashing" bullshit. He's still using the same lies about the Dover decision (not even coming up with NEW lies, just regurgitating the same ones). He's still babbling about some imaginary conspiracy to sap and impurify his precious bodily fluids.

Cowardheart is incapable of seeing anything wrong in the actions of his own side, and incapable of telling the truth. He just doesn't live in the real world. It's all delusion, all the time for this nutcase.

</blockquote>

Not only that. Willy's blog post about PZ's "gatecrashing" (oh noes: quotation marks!) features a picture of a man walking into a door with the caption: "Sneaking into the back door of a theater with brass knuckles and steel-toed boots". Because, you know, implying that PZ was planning on committing violence at the theater without any evidence is good journalism.

phantomreader42

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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<blockquote>
Jackelope King:

<blockquote>
phantomreader42:

Remember, for Cowardheart, it's not really lying if you're Lying For Jesus™!

Is there anything that will stop this moron from repeating a lie? He's STILL throwing around the "gate crashing" bullshit. He's still using the same lies about the Dover decision (not even coming up with NEW lies, just regurgitating the same ones). He's still babbling about some imaginary conspiracy to sap and impurify his precious bodily fluids.

Cowardheart is incapable of seeing anything wrong in the actions of his own side, and incapable of telling the truth. He just doesn't live in the real world. It's all delusion, all the time for this nutcase.

</blockquote>

Not only that. Willy's blog post about PZ's "gatecrashing" (oh noes: quotation marks!) features a picture of a man walking into a door with the caption: "Sneaking into the back door of a theater with brass knuckles and steel-toed boots". Because, you know, implying that PZ was planning on committing violence at the theater without any evidence is good journalism.
</blockquote>

In Cowardheart's defense, he probably actually believes violence was involved. Like I said, he doesn't live in the real world. He probably still believes the Blessman account, which Blessman himself has contradicted. Combine that with a few good old-fashined hallucinations, and you've got all Cowardheart needs to accuse PZ of anything, no matter how ridiculous or contrary to reality.

And what are you talking about evidence for? Everyone knows the very concept of evidence is just another nefarious conspiracy of the PT-mafia, in collusion with teh Illuminati, the International Bankers *wink wink* and the dreaded Underpants Gnomes!

William Wallace

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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<blockquote>
phantomreader42 wrote:

...
Is there anything that will stop this moron from repeating a lie? He's STILL throwing around the "gate crashing" bullshit.
...

Cowardheart is incapable of seeing anything wrong in the actions of his own side, and incapable of telling the truth.

</blockquote>

The only moron is phantomreader42. Regarding gatecrashing, even Nerdiah, over at <a href="http://atheisthousewife.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-movie-public-relations.html" rel="nofollow">Atheist Housewife</a>, turned against PZ Myers after discovering <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/i_always_aim_to_misbehave.php" rel="nofollow">PZ also gate crashed a teleconference call</a>.

<blockquote>Updated: 07.50 am, 29 March, local communist time.

Oh, for [f***]'s sake, people.

So, here we have the cdesign proponentsis, spinning like mad, tripping allover themselves with their stories and counter-stories, reduced to slandering Myers as a "gate-crasher" and for "gaming the system" by applying for a ticket on a website that was linked to from allover the web. Given this situation, if you were Myers, what would you do? Or more specifically, what would you not do? Something like this, perhaps?

Yep, that's right. According to his own post on the subject, Myers was invited to listen-in (not speak) on a radio broadcast conference call, and submit questions by email. Then somehow he got a hold of a code that he could use to speak on the radio, one that he knew that he wasn't meant to use, but he used it anyway and effectively gate-crashed their little promo-piece. In other words, he has pretty-much gone and done the very thing that they were falsely accusing him of doing in the first place.

Myers, you idiot. At least the theistards have the excuse of being helpless little memebots. What on Earth made you think that that was a good idea? You gave 'em enough rope, and the creationists were doing a bang-up job of hanging themselves with it. You didn't need to do anything, just point and laugh!

Then I have the pleasure of reading rubbish like this, where prominent science bloggers are conveniently side-stepping the issue and injecting a little counter-spin of their own. And of course, they are getting called on it, rightly so, and it's [f***]ing embarrassing.

I mean, what does atheist, scientist, or skeptic, mean to you people? Does it mean unblinking, unwavering striving for the truth? Does it mean to love truth, to really love it, even when it's hard to find, uncomfortable to hold, won't promise you ultimate meaning and eternal life, and everyone hates you for it? Or is it just another ideology to cling to, a tribe to join, so we can all go "Rah rah rah, we're in the Blue Team, you're in the Red Team and you're all a bunch of jerks so everything we do is right"?

[F***] it. You're all the same. I wash my hands of the bloody lot of you. I've got castor oil to find, and a baby to give birth to by Monday if I don't want to be pumped full of chemicals and have him torn out of me. And I sure as hell won't defend stupidity and deception, no matter what 'team' it is coming from, and I say "[f***] you" to anyone who does.</blockquote>

Furthermore, on this thread I have opposed DaveScot's premature gloating and aspirations to have Judge Jones not decide on the facts, but on political favoritism.

Also, see <a href="/archives/2008/02/teach-the-contr-5.html#comment-141823">comment-141823</a> and <a href="/archives/2008/02/teach-the-contr-5.html#comment-141840">comment-141840</a>, where I write:

<blockquote>William Wallace wrote:

I just finished listening to the debate, and there is absolutely no question that PZ Myers won the debate. Some of the comments (infantile and ignorant) were not necessary and out of place, but PZ still clearly won the debate.</blockquote>

It isn't difficult to prove phantomreader42 wrong. phantomreader42 just makes up lies, and hopes that if they sound good, others in the PT-mafia will believe him.

phantomreader42

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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Ah, good old Cowardheart. Never fails to spew bullshit about things that only exist in his own hollow head.

<blockquote>
William Wallace:
It isn't difficult to prove phantomreader42 wrong. phantomreader42 just makes up lies, and hopes that if they sound good, others in the PT-mafia will believe him.
</blockquote>

Cowardheart, if you had a brain you'd know you were lying about the "gatecrashing". When you mentioned it, you were clearly talking about the MOVIE, where every credible source agrees there was NO crashing (no, the voices in your head are not credible sources). Then you spin around to pretend you were talking about the CONFERENCE CALL, which PZ received an invitation to, and the IDiots were actually stupid enough to give out the code for on the line. Even the source you just quoted is clear that accusing PZ of crashing the movie (which you did) is a lie. With the conference call, there might be some room for debate, but inviting people to participate in a conference call and then allowing ONLY your side to speak is a clear attempt to cover up lies. And make no mistake, the Expelled IDiots WERE lying, and PZ called them on it. That's what you really have a problem with, people daring to point out when creationists lie.

phantomreader42

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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Oh, and Cowardheart, you dodged this question again

<blockquote>
Jackelope King:

I asked first, Willy. This is your third chance to answer the question, and guess what: it's actually on topic.

<blockquote>
William Wallace:

I have not yet seen Expelled, but I can hardly wait. Well, I can wait longer than some, I guess, in that I am not willing to <a href="http://blog.coincidencetheories.com/?p=158">gate crash</a>.

</blockquote>

Answer the question, William: do you agree that it is dishonest for "Expelled" to punctuate interviews with stock-footage of Nazis? Yes or no?
</blockquote>

Do you think it's okay to defile the graves of millions for a cheap political attack on science? Or is it just fine with you, as long as it's Lying For Jesus™?

William Wallace

Unregistered

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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<blockquote>
Wesley R. Elsberry wrote:

The Scopes trial was not mischaracterized in "Judgment Day".
</blockquote>

Yes it was. The producers did reenact the Dover trial. It would not have been difficult to re-enact the "arrest" of the physical education teacher and volunteer defendant, John Scopes, who could not recall ever teaching evolution.

It would not have been difficult to re-enact the recruitment of John Scopes at the "we need to put our name on the map" town meeting.

They might have also re-enacted Scopes having to encourage his own students to testify against himself.

<blockquote>
I've already shown that the factual claims made concerning the Scopes trial in "Judgment Day" stand up to scrutiny.
</blockquote>

Yes, factually correct in a yellow way, approaching the National Enquirer reporting that a member of Congress wrote a book about sex in the United States Capitol building when what really happened is she wrote a book while in the Capitol building about gender. Both sentences are correct if you already know the facts.

The Scopes Trial was a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusive_lawsuit">collusive lawsuit</a>.

William Wallace

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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<blockquote>
Wesley R. Elsberry:

We seem to have come to the end of any meaningful discussion on Scopes in "Judgment Day". Comments that should have been written on the Bathroom Wall are routed there. Additional BW-worthy stuff entered here may result in moderation holds applied to commenters.

</blockquote>

Wesley,

I can understand why you wanted to suppress the information in my last post, considering it so conclusively demonstrated you are wrong, but could somebody tell me where the bathroom wall is?

Jackelope King

Unregistered

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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<blockquote>
Wesley R. Elsberry:

We seem to have come to the end of any meaningful discussion on Scopes in "Judgment Day". Comments that should have been written on the Bathroom Wall are routed there. Additional BW-worthy stuff entered here may result in moderation holds applied to commenters.

</blockquote>

My apologies for breaking the rules, Wesley.

Dale Husband

Unregistered

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:41

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<blockquote>
William Wallace:

Wesley,

I can understand why you wanted to suppress the information in my last post, considering it so conclusively demonstrated you are wrong, but could somebody tell me where the bathroom wall is?

</blockquote>

What information? You mean this?

<quote>

Two problems are:

1. The scopes trial was mischaracterized in the Judgment Day. A more accurate portrayal can be found in Edward J. Larsons Pulitzer Prize winning book Summer for the Gods.

2. Using motion picture images of G-men arresting what was in reality a volunteer defendant/physical education teacher is propaganda, not documentary.

</quote>

That's making a mountain out of a molehill. And how does it prove us wrong when most of us knew it already? Please come up with some arguments we can take seriously, and stop wasting your time with dreck like that!

Wesley R. Elsberry

Unregistered

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Posted: April 03 2008,19:56

Test 4 for BW move stuff.

Wesley R. Elsberry

Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

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Posted: April 03 2008,20:35

"William Wallace" is crying "censorship!" over on his blog because various of his repetitive nonsensical comments were sent to the Bathroom Wall. Well, I hit the flusher to send them to the Bathroom Wall, but due to a kink in 'teh Intertubes' they didn't actually make it to the BW. Reed and I just spent an absolutely lovely few hours mucking around in the accumulated stuff figuring out just where the kink was and straightening it out. The flow should now be restored.

Moderation is not censorship. When somebody insists on re-posting nonsensical (and now delusional, as in claims of having "proved me wrong") codswallop over and over again, that's not discussion, that's Bathroom Wall graffiti.

Of course, I did note that continued abuse of my thread would net consequences, and "William Wallace" has them. His comments are now set to trigger a moderation hold, so individual thread authors will have to specifically approve his comments for them to show up on PT, or shift them immediately to the Bathroom Wall.

The entire set of allusions to Scopes within "Judgment Day" is limited to a pretty brief segment. Here is the transcript containing every such reference:

Quote

NARRATOR: Creationists like Bonsell reject much of modern science in favor a literal reading of the Bible. They believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, and that God created everything fully-formed, including humans, in just six days.

Although most mainstream religions made peace with evolution decades ago, many creationists still see evolution as incompatible with their faith. And both creationism and evolution are no strangers to the court. Their legal battles stretch back to the famous Scopes Monkey Trial of 1925.

Dick York As Bertram T. Cates/Clip from Inherit the Wind): As I told you yesterday, Darwin's theory tells us that man evolved from a lower order of animals.

NARRATOR: In that case, a high school science teacher in Tennessee, named John Scopes, was accused of violating state law by teaching evolution.

(Frederic March as Matthew Harrison Brady ): I hereby place you under arrest.

NARRATOR: Loosely portrayed in the classic film Inherit the Wind, the trial turned into a courtroom showdown between legendary lawyer Clarence Darrow...

SPENCER TRACY As HENRY DRUMMOND Clip from Inherit the Wind): The defense wishes to place Dr. Keller on the stand so that he can explain to the gentlemen of the jury the exact meaning of the theory of evolution.

NARRATOR: ...and three-time presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan.

ELLIOT REED As PROSECUTER TOM DAVENPORT/Clip from Inherit the Wind): If you had a son, Mr. Sillers, what would you think if that sweet child came home from school and told you that a godless teacher...

SPENCER TRACY As HENRY DRUMMOND Clip from Inherit the Wind): Objection!

NARRATOR: Scopes was found guilty of teaching evolution, and slapped with a mere hundred-dollar fine. But the verdict would have a chilling effect on science education throughout the country for the next three decades.

EUGENIE C. SCOTT: After the Scopes trial, textbook publishers decided that evolution was just too controversial a subject, and so they just quietly removed it from the textbooks. And for most of that time, the textbook was the curriculum, and, so, if it wasn't in the textbook, it didn't get taught.

NARRATOR: The chilling effect of the Scopes trial did not thaw until the 1960s. But as publishers slipped evolution back into their textbooks, creationists fought to teach their views in science class as well.

Over the next 30 years, the two sides battled it out in court. The fight culminated in 1987, when the Supreme Court decided that teaching creationism in public school science classes violated the separation of church and state mandated by the constitution in the Establishment Clause, which prevents the government from promoting or prohibiting any form of religion. To this day, teaching creationism in public school science classes anywhere in the United States remains a violation of students' constitutional rights.

Another Dover school board member, Bill Buckingham, a retired policeman, was appointed by Alan Bonsell to head the curriculum committee. It was his job to review all requests for new textbooks.

The 9th grade biology teachers had asked for a widely used book, co-authored by biologists Ken Miller and Joe Levine. But Buckingham did not like what he saw.

And that's it. I pointed out that everything that "Judgment Day" itself claimed about Scopes was accurate. "Wallace" kept saying stuff about "Inherit the Wind" as if that ground had not already been dealt with. Repetition of erroneous and irrelevant claims is not an argument, nor is it a rebuttal.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

J-Dog

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Joined: Dec. 2006

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Posted: April 03 2008,21:34

William Wallace = lying scumbag IDCreationist bag of dog doo-doo.

He is also a bully and yells at ERV.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Dr.GH

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Posted: April 03 2008,22:00

I'll just move this here on auto. A thread in the "intelligent smoother" is in the science forum at the Amazon.com site.

You might find it fun.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Dr.GH

Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

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Posted: April 03 2008,22:00

Hi Glenn.

I have more book reviews.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Glenn Branch

Unregistered

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Posted: April 03 2008,22:01

From Peabody Award for PBS NOVA "Judgment Day":

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Another test for BW move stuff.

Wesley R. Elsberry

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Posted: April 03 2008,22:03

OK, I've added the PT link and title for things coming from PT, which should help make somewhat more sense out of why particular things end up here.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Dr.GH

Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

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Posted: April 03 2008,22:27

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 03 2008,20:03)

OK, I've added the PT link and title for things coming from PT, which should help make somewhat more sense out of why particular things end up here.

Ah ha! I hadn't thought so.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Lou FCD

Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

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Posted: April 04 2008,07:28

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 03 2008,23:03)

OK, I've added the PT link and title for things coming from PT, which should help make somewhat more sense out of why particular things end up here.

Thanks for that, Wesley. Also for the extended comments in the RSS feed.

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“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Erasmus, FCD

Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

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Posted: April 07 2008,11:17

Ha Ha Chicago is for douchebags.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell.�Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Richardthughes

Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

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Posted: April 07 2008,15:14

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ April 07 2008,11:17)

Ha Ha Chicago is for douchebags.

SHUT UP! ILL MANGLE YOU'RE CABBAGE, RASSER!

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes

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Joined: Jan. 2006

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Posted: April 07 2008,15:15

Quote

74 guests, 22 Public Members and 2 Anonymous Members � [ View Complete List ]
>Richardthughes >Reciprocating Bill >creeky belly >Gunthernacus >Doc Bill >Henry J >Thought Provoker >Venus Mousetrap >Arden Chatfield >Albatrossity2 >Zachriel >keeflarKmer >J-Dog >Kristine >bfish >Dr.GH >Occam's Aftershave >BopDiddy >midwifetoad >*Playergirl* >franky172 >Erasmus, FCD

That's right, *Playergirl*, come to Richardthughes' soft, third person lap...

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Arden Chatfield

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Joined: Jan. 2006

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Posted: April 07 2008,15:23

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ April 07 2008,11:17)

Chicago is for douchebags.

Hasn't that been the slogan of the Chicago Tourist Board for some time?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

J-Dog

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Joined: Dec. 2006

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Posted: April 07 2008,15:29

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 07 2008,15:23)

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,April 07 2008,11:17)

Chicago is for douchebags.

Hasn't that been the slogan of the Chicago Tourist Board for some time?

Well, ever since the City Council decided to attract more ID Research money anyway...

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Erasmus, FCD

Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

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Posted: April 07 2008,15:31

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Wow kevin if I didn't know that the Lard was on your side I would think that you were just a troll. A particularly puny little shit stained one.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell.�Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

skeptic

Posts: 1163
Joined: May 2006

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Posted: April 08 2008,16:49

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Louis, I'm going to take a step back and agree with you and acknowledge my bias, just not the one you think. I tend to think that the most intelligent people are scientists and they tend to have PhDs. I get very upset by people claiming to be intelligent, like the Al Gores of life, who couldn't hold a candle to an associate professor at a mid-major university or a boardroom of certifiable scientific-idiots making business decisions in a scientific world that anyone with half a brain can see is just plain dumb. I blame the glass ceiling you refer to partly and partly the scientists themselves for accepting it and allowing the stereotype to perpetuate, both rightly and wrongly.

On a personal side note, I do have PhD envy but there is no bitterness only motivation. I will complete my PhD, it's only life experiences that have delayed that inevitability.

Arden Chatfield

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

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Posted: April 08 2008,23:43

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Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,April 08 2008,23:39)

smartest sombitch i know never finished fifth grade.

that ain't no shit.

Yeah, and higher edumacation is no guarantee of being smart. Shit, just look at Louis.

(Well. Not for too long.)

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Louis

Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

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Posted: April 09 2008,08:43

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Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 09 2008,05:43)

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,April 08 2008,23:39)

smartest sombitch i know never finished fifth grade.

that ain't no shit.

Yeah, and higher edumacation is no guarantee of being smart. Shit, just look at Louis.

(Well. Not for too long.)

Awwww it's just so sweet how you envy me Arden.

It's nice that you take time out of your busy schedule of licking the windows at the back of the short bus to make silly snide remarks.

Well done, champ, well done.

Louis

P.S. Momma. Sexual prowess (lack thereof). Small genitals. Funny smell. Generalised abuse. Just rearrange those themes into some sort of insult for yourself would you? I'm a busy guy.

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Bye.

guthrie

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Joined: Jan. 2006

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Posted: April 09 2008,10:07

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Would you guys mind not commenting so much in a pretend post modernist I'm-a-bigger-man-than-you fashion? It is getting really boring.

Louis

Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink)

Posted: April 09 2008,10:27

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Quote (guthrie @ April 09 2008,16:07)

Would you guys mind not commenting so much in a pretend post modernist �I'm-a-bigger-man-than-you fashion? �It is getting really boring.

But but but it's the cornerstone of our comedy relationship!

You do know neither Arden nor I (or Carlson or Erasmus or J Dog or RTH or any one of the myriad of AtBC Banterers) are serious don't you?

I know I'm setting myself up for a fall on this one but I actually like and admire Arden (and the others) for their devastating commentry on all things creationist and their ability for (in)decent banter. Of course if this ever comes out I will deny everything.

It's part of the fun of AtBC.

And another thing a) stop being so sensitive you whiny little wuss, and b) who are you to tell us how to enjoy ourselves you miserable bastard?

See, you can join in too! ;-)

Louis

P.S. It's not hard to be a bigger man than Arden, haven't you seen the website www.ardensminiwinky.com? Now how the hell did you think I was going to let that one slip past.

P.P.S. BTW Banter is what we do to keep amused whilst we're waiting for the IDCists to do some research. Mocking loons is fun but it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Banter with Arden et al. is more challenging, at least one has to attempt to come close to maybe possibly one day looking like it could be the case on a good day with the wind behind you that you *might* just say something witty. Obviously we're all still striving towards that day.

P.P.P.S. Complaining about banter and abuse is like complaining about people doing DaveTard impressions and Tard-O-Logues. Bad form. They're institutions of AtBC humour dontcherknow.

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Bye.

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