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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,10:37   

Quote (Cubist @ Feb. 22 2012,01:18)
Quote (BWE @ Feb. 22 2012,00:56)
I take some of that back. His behavior is only disgusting and his ideas only utterly simplistic, juvenile, wrong, and stupid on the the topics of religion and politics. He is alright at talking about biology.

How's your "We Hate PZ" Club—sorry, I meant Post Atheist Movement—coming along, BWE?

Good! I have a whole forum dedicated to it now!
www.talkrational.com

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,10:46   

Quote
It does make sense to look at a protein from a design perspective - or any biological feature from a design perspective, because there is a real sense in which biological features are designed - they are there for a functional reason.

It's just that you don't need to assume intentional design, and assuming intentional design gives us less information, not more, because it implies that the thing may be there for some private reason not available to an objective observer.

Only thing I don't like about those two, they are both too long for a sig.

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,11:33   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 21 2012,21:58)
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 21 2012,20:27)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 21 2012,18:53)
 
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 21 2012,16:27)
 
Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 21 2012,17:01)
I wonder how much longer BA77 and Joe will be the dominant posters at UD?

Are you familiar with the idea of a 'hydraulic empire'?

I think Heinlein had a novel that along the way asserted that a regime that controlled access to water could last indefinitely. "Friday", IIRC.

I was thinking of a Larry Niven book, World Out of Time.

Is that the extension of the "Rammer" short story? If so, I remember the book, but not specifically the water control discussion from it.

Yes, it is. The hero, Corbell, explains that the State lasted as long as it did because it controlled all the key resources (water monopoly was his term). Since (in this analysis) a water monopoly can only be overthrown from outside, and there was no outside, the State lived forever.

One of several hard SF books of the Reagan Era that took the Soviet empire really seriously.

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,11:36   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 22 2012,03:23)
Quote (keiths @ Feb. 22 2012,02:04)
Some good old-fashioned tard from John D:
 
Quote
I agree with Tragic Mishap. I think visually when you look at something and infer that it is designed, it is because your eyes take in hundreds or even thousands of subtle features into consideration which make it nearly impossible to articulate with speech and would be incomprehensible if it even could be spelled out since the realization is made by apprehending them at the same time.

I think that instead of constantly looking for ways to formalize CSI and FCSI or whatever, more effort should be put towards showing how pursuing research from a design perspective is more rewarding. You can look at proteins and see strategies that make sense to us. This should lead to predictions about what other types of connected processes might exist and things to look for that wouldn’t be assumed from an evolutionary stand point.

That's interesting because sh/e is 50% right.

It does make sense to look at a protein from a design perspective - or any biological feature from a design perspective, because there is a real sense in which biological features are designed - they are there for a functional reason.

It's just that you don't need to assume intentional design, and assuming intentional design gives us less information, not more, because it implies that the thing may be there for some private reason not available to an objective observer.

IMHO, you can substitute the word 'functional' for 'design' in the phrase 'design perspective' and avoid a lot of hoo-haw.

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,11:36   

Quote (BWE @ Feb. 22 2012,10:37)
Quote (Cubist @ Feb. 22 2012,01:18)
Quote (BWE @ Feb. 22 2012,00:56)
I take some of that back. His behavior is only disgusting and his ideas only utterly simplistic, juvenile, wrong, and stupid on the the topics of religion and politics. He is alright at talking about biology.

How's your "We Hate PZ" Club—sorry, I meant Post Atheist Movement—coming along, BWE?

Good! I have a whole forum dedicated to it now!
www.talkrational.com

Do keep up, BWE.  It's Post Post Atheism at TR now.

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,11:45   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 22 2012,09:36)
Quote (BWE @ Feb. 22 2012,10:37)
Quote (Cubist @ Feb. 22 2012,01:18)
 
Quote (BWE @ Feb. 22 2012,00:56)
I take some of that back. His behavior is only disgusting and his ideas only utterly simplistic, juvenile, wrong, and stupid on the the topics of religion and politics. He is alright at talking about biology.

How's your "We Hate PZ" Club—sorry, I meant Post Atheist Movement—coming along, BWE?

Good! I have a whole forum dedicated to it now!
www.talkrational.com

Do keep up, BWE.  It's Post Post Atheism at TR now.

Well, I find that I tend to sprint and then rest like the hare. Occasionally the tortoise gets by me. :)

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,12:41   

Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 22 2012,11:33)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 21 2012,21:58)
 
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 21 2012,20:27)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 21 2012,18:53)
   
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 21 2012,16:27)
   
Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 21 2012,17:01)
I wonder how much longer BA77 and Joe will be the dominant posters at UD?

Are you familiar with the idea of a 'hydraulic empire'?

I think Heinlein had a novel that along the way asserted that a regime that controlled access to water could last indefinitely. "Friday", IIRC.

I was thinking of a Larry Niven book, World Out of Time.

Is that the extension of the "Rammer" short story? If so, I remember the book, but not specifically the water control discussion from it.

Yes, it is. The hero, Corbell, explains that the State lasted as long as it did because it controlled all the key resources (water monopoly was his term). Since (in this analysis) a water monopoly can only be overthrown from outside, and there was no outside, the State lived forever.

One of several hard SF books of the Reagan Era that took the Soviet empire really seriously.

IIRC The Integral Trees is set in the same universe.  The autopilot of the ramship always announces itself as "Kendy for the State".

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
eigenstate



Posts: 78
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,12:53   

Just stopping in to note that Lizzie's blog has now sucked what little oxygen there was out of the room at UD.  Not even boring anymore, just read the names of commenters in the "recent comments" list.

There's lots of screwy stuff at TSZ now, too, but that goes with the territory, and anything interesting and thoughtful, pitched on both sides, has moved over there.  

Barry's litmus test is already, just in a week or so, starting to reap what it sowed. Couldn't happen to nicer guy or a better blog.

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,13:05   

Good.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,13:38   

Fuel to the fire:

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArt....ID=1256

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Freddie



Posts: 371
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,13:53   

Quote (noncarborundum @ Feb. 22 2012,12:41)
 
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 22 2012,11:33)
   
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 21 2012,21:58)
     
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 21 2012,20:27)
     
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 21 2012,18:53)
       
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 21 2012,16:27)
       
Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 21 2012,17:01)
I wonder how much longer BA77 and Joe will be the dominant posters at UD?

Are you familiar with the idea of a 'hydraulic empire'?

I think Heinlein had a novel that along the way asserted that a regime that controlled access to water could last indefinitely. "Friday", IIRC.

I was thinking of a Larry Niven book, World Out of Time.

Is that the extension of the "Rammer" short story? If so, I remember the book, but not specifically the water control discussion from it.

Yes, it is. The hero, Corbell, explains that the State lasted as long as it did because it controlled all the key resources (water monopoly was his term). Since (in this analysis) a water monopoly can only be overthrown from outside, and there was no outside, the State lived forever.

One of several hard SF books of the Reagan Era that took the Soviet empire really seriously.

IIRC The Integral Trees is set in the same universe.  The autopilot of the ramship always announces itself as "Kendy for the State".

Well - you can keep your rammers in your pockets, chaps.  

As far as I am concerned Tank Girl the movie (and former comic strip) cornered the market on despots that cornered the world's remaining water supplies!  

Also introduced one 'Naomi Watts' in I think her first significant role.

--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,14:04   

Quote (eigenstate @ Feb. 22 2012,12:53)
Just stopping in to note that Lizzie's blog has now sucked what little oxygen there was out of the room at UD.  Not even boring anymore, just read the names of commenters in the "recent comments" list.

There's lots of screwy stuff at TSZ now, too, but that goes with the territory, and anything interesting and thoughtful, pitched on both sides, has moved over there.  

Barry's litmus test is already, just in a week or so, starting to reap what it sowed. Couldn't happen to nicer guy or a better blog.


Yep, and even today, days after her ban and with a hint of desperation, Barry writes:

[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/philosophy/q-is-logic-simply-a-matter-of-axioms-at-play-in-an-abstract-logical-world-unconnected-to-e

xternal-reality-a-nope/#comment-421138]Liddle is a fool. She will no longer be spewing her folly on this site.[/URL]

You can tell how much he misses her.

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,14:06   

Quote (noncarborundum @ Feb. 22 2012,13:41)
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 22 2012,11:33)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 21 2012,21:58)
 
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 21 2012,20:27)
   
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 21 2012,18:53)
   
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 21 2012,16:27)
     
Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 21 2012,17:01)
I wonder how much longer BA77 and Joe will be the dominant posters at UD?

Are you familiar with the idea of a 'hydraulic empire'?

I think Heinlein had a novel that along the way asserted that a regime that controlled access to water could last indefinitely. "Friday", IIRC.

I was thinking of a Larry Niven book, World Out of Time.

Is that the extension of the "Rammer" short story? If so, I remember the book, but not specifically the water control discussion from it.

Yes, it is. The hero, Corbell, explains that the State lasted as long as it did because it controlled all the key resources (water monopoly was his term). Since (in this analysis) a water monopoly can only be overthrown from outside, and there was no outside, the State lived forever.

One of several hard SF books of the Reagan Era that took the Soviet empire really seriously.

IIRC The Integral Trees is set in the same universe.  The autopilot of the ramship always announces itself as "Kendy for the State".

Yes, though if every ramship pilot defects (as they all seem to do, to create plot opportunities) it would seem that the State was actually surrounded by a cloud of possible threats.

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,14:27   

I wonder if Deuce knows about the difference between euclidean and non-euclidean geometry?

Quote
4
DeuceFebruary 22, 2012 at 12:26 pm

The craziest thing about the logic-deniers is, if not for the fact that the rules of logic are connected to external reality and lead us to objective truth about it, then nothing can be evidence of anything!

Consider the fact that the earth is round rather than flat. We have multiple lines of evidence for this, from the mathematical measurements that the ancients performed, to photos of the earth from space.

But what makes that evidence evidence? How do we conclude one thing from it and not another? Well, using the data we gather through our senses, we are able to grasp something about the Earth’s form: that it is spherical. By the Law Of Identity, we know that sphericity is different from flatness, and by the Law Of Non-contradiction, we can perceive that it is impossible for something spherical to be flat (or otherwise not spherical) at the same time. If the laws of rational thought are not universal laws of reality, then all the data we’ve collected about the earth actually tells us nothing about whether it’s one shape or another. The same goes for everything else, including whatever evidence Liddle believes she has for materialism and for her rejection of logic.

Btw, I wonder how many of Mrs Liddle’s like-minded will be at the “Reason Rally”?


I think Existentialism and Post-Modernism blew their collective gaskets.


link

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,19:43   

Quote (eigenstate @ Feb. 22 2012,12:53)
Just stopping in to note that Lizzie's blog has now sucked what little oxygen there was out of the room at UD.  Not even boring anymore, just read the names of commenters in the "recent comments" list.

There's lots of screwy stuff at TSZ now, too, but that goes with the territory, and anything interesting and thoughtful, pitched on both sides, has moved over there.  

Barry's litmus test is already, just in a week or so, starting to reap what it sowed. Couldn't happen to nicer guy or a better blog.

I recall the good ol' days when they used to cite site-hits.  Think they will brag on that soon?

Maybe they will go the way of OverwhelmingNews.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,20:06   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Feb. 22 2012,20:43)
Quote (eigenstate @ Feb. 22 2012,12:53)
Just stopping in to note that Lizzie's blog has now sucked what little oxygen there was out of the room at UD.  Not even boring anymore, just read the names of commenters in the "recent comments" list.

There's lots of screwy stuff at TSZ now, too, but that goes with the territory, and anything interesting and thoughtful, pitched on both sides, has moved over there.  

Barry's litmus test is already, just in a week or so, starting to reap what it sowed. Couldn't happen to nicer guy or a better blog.

I recall the good ol' days when they used to cite site-hits.  Think they will brag on that soon?

Maybe they will go the way of OverwhelmingNews.

maybe they will go the way of jim jones

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
paragwinn



Posts: 539
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,20:57   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 22 2012,11:38)
Fuel to the fire:

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArt....ID=1256

So, Barry, does the following statement violate the Three Laws of Thought, yes or no?
 
Quote
The discoveries of science have cascading effects, many unforeseeable, on how we view ourselves and the world in which we live: . . . ; that there are methods for ascertaining the truth that can force us to conclusions which violate common sense, sometimes radically so at scales very large and very small;


--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,21:19   

Dembski lashes out at Barry Arrington:
Quote
It’s one thing to hold views passionately. It’s another to hold one particular view so dogmatically that all others may not even be discussed, or their logical consequences considered.


Just kidding.  It's actually from Bill Dembski on young vs. old Earth creationists, and where he stands.  I love hearing Bill "Bow to the Text" Dembski complain about dogma.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,21:46   

WTF.....?



Next:

Bill Dembski invites us into his home and talks us through the soft furnishings that have helped his work on intelligent design.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,22:17   

fucking drunks

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,23:03   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 22 2012,21:19)
Dembski lashes out at Barry Arrington:
 
Quote
It’s one thing to hold views passionately. It’s another to hold one particular view so dogmatically that all others may not even be discussed, or their logical consequences considered.


Just kidding.  It's actually from Bill Dembski on young vs. old Earth creationists, and where he stands.  I love hearing Bill "Bow to the Text" Dembski complain about dogma.

William Dembski at UD:  
Quote
The reason this divergence between young-earth and old-earth creationists is relevant to the problem of evil is that Christians have traditionally believed that both moral and natural evil are a consequence of the fall of humanity. But natural evil, such as animals killing and parasitizing each other, would predate the arrival of humans on the scene if the earth is old and animal life preceded them. So, how could their suffering be a consequence of human sin and the Fall? My solution is to argue that the Fall had retroactive effects in history (much as the salvation of Christ on the Cross acts not only forward in time to save people now, but also backward in time to save the Old Testament saints).

Paige Patterson in October 2010:  
Quote
Patterson said that when Dembski’s questionable statements came to light, he convened a meeting with Dembski and several high-ranking administrators at the seminary. At that meeting, Dembski was quick to admit that he was wrong about the flood, Patterson said.

“Had I had any inkling that Dr. Dembski was actually denying the absolute trustworthiness of the Bible, then that would have, of course, ended his relationship with the school,” he said.

William Demsbki 15 months later:
 
Quote
Life is messy and the Bible is not a book of systematic theology, but to the fundamentalist mentality, this is unacceptable. I need to stop, but my book The End of Christianity has, more than any of my other books (and I’ve done over 20), been an eye-opener to me personally in the reaction it elicited. The reaction of Darwinists and theistic evolutionists to my work, though harsh, is predictable. The reaction of fundamentalists was to me surprising, though in hindsight I probably should have expected it.


--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,01:00   

Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 22 2012,19:46)
WTF.....?



Next:

Bill Dembski invites us into his home and talks us through the soft furnishings that have helped his work on intelligent design.

I think they missed "weed" at the end of the first line.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,01:19   

head

Quote
Bill Dimbledore on the problem of good head, why there is never enough and you don't get it when you deserve it the most like after posting the names of the Baylor Regents on your shitty blog or making some crap fart cartoon or stealing a blagellum video or after blowing Sal 10 times what is there no paybacks


--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,02:11   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 22 2012,20:17)
fucking drunks

Are you really. I'm just sittin' here readin', myself.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,04:27   

Quote (Trubble @ Feb. 22 2012,16:59)
Christ, not the "Chief Seattle's letter" myth again?

..indeed the Christ Myth gets far too much air time.

ETA Manifestly

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,09:47   

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 23 2012,05:27)
Quote (Trubble @ Feb. 22 2012,16:59)
Christ, not the "Chief Seattle's letter" myth again?

..indeed the Christ Myth gets far too much air time.

ETA Manifestly

and it's really one of the most boring tales.  color me impressed if mary delivered jesus through her anus

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,10:04   

Some good theotard from tgpeeler:
Quote
I think the problem ultimately boils down to rebellion. If God is Reason, and He is (I AM WHO I AM – an expression of the Law of Identity and the basis for all thought, rational or otherwise, because it is the basis for all language) then to reject Reason is to reject God. We are not dealing with intellectual problems here, we are dealing with willfully disobedient (to the First Principles of rational thought) fools (Psalm 14:1). It’s a hard thing to say but there it is. I hope lurkers are being reached because I’ve never had one acknowledgement of undeniable truth “out here” in years of posting with the ELs and their ilk. At bottom, this is moral degeneracy because it is willful and obstinate rebellion against undeniable Truths. Isaiah warned against this when he said “woe to those who call evil good and good evil.” This is a violation of the law of identity. And woe to those who do it.
$0.02

Quote
9
Axel, February 22, 2012, 6:50 pm
Spot on, tg. Insightful and lucid.

10
BrentFebruary 23, 2012 at 8:28 am
tgpeeler,

If that’s two cents’ worth I don’t think we need to worry about inflation just now. Very nice!

11
William J MurrayFebruary 23, 2012 at 9:03 am
tgpeeler and StephenB,

Beautiful, truthful messages.


--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Freddie



Posts: 371
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,10:38   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 23 2012,10:04)
Some good theotard from tgpeeler:
         
Quote
I think the problem ultimately boils down to rebellion. If God is Reason, and He is (I AM WHO I AM – an expression of the Law of Identity and the basis for all thought, rational or otherwise, because it is the basis for all language) then to reject Reason is to reject God. We are not dealing with intellectual problems here, we are dealing with willfully disobedient (to the First Principles of rational thought) fools (Psalm 14:1). It’s a hard thing to say but there it is. I hope lurkers are being reached because I’ve never had one acknowledgement of undeniable truth “out here” in years of posting with the ELs and their ilk. At bottom, this is moral degeneracy because it is willful and obstinate rebellion against undeniable Truths. Isaiah warned against this when he said “woe to those who call evil good and good evil.” This is a violation of the law of identity. And woe to those who do it.
$0.02

         
Quote
9
Axel, February 22, 2012, 6:50 pm
Spot on, tg. Insightful and lucid.

10
BrentFebruary 23, 2012 at 8:28 am
tgpeeler,

If that’s two cents’ worth I don’t think we need to worry about inflation just now. Very nice!

11
William J MurrayFebruary 23, 2012 at 9:03 am
tgpeeler and StephenB,

Beautiful, truthful messages.

Some great, almost poetical stuff from KF further up that thread too:
   
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What I am thinking is that what is really going on here is that we are in an era where ultra-modernism, aka post- modernism, is the conventional wisdom of the day in circles influenced by the sort of elites Santorum was fingering as dupes of the prince of darkness grim.

You know how hard I have come down on the point that if we can be got to swallow an absurdity, a necessarily false notion, it then corrupts our ability to discern truth and falsity, as it leads us to reject the truth that will obviously not conform to such error.

So, what happens when his lowness and the lowerarchy –C S Lewis got that part dead right — get our civilisation to drink deep and long at the well-springs of absurdity?

Oh yes, I know I know, it is seen as utterly dummy fundy or the like to suggest that — horrors — there actually might be such a thing as the prince of darkness grim.

Well, let me cite the Catholic — yes, they were Roman Catholics, and were standing in the name of the principles they had been taught through the Catholic church [and I say that as an Evangelical Protestant] — martyrs of the White Rose movement on the subject, in exposing and explaining one of the chief, willing disciples of that dark prince in recent years, herr Schicklegruber the foam- at- the- mouth carpet-chewer:


My emphasis - for no other reason than as a brit I enjoy the odd double-entendre and I have no qualms in pulling out sentences that can be used to quote-mine KF at all.   I must admit, "foam-at-the-mouth carpet chewer" in reference to Herr Schicklegruber (why does KF never just call him Hitler - regardless, it appears spelled incorrectly anyway) did make me laugh, but only as that's how I imagine many of the regular IDiots act in the 'real' world.  It's also a refreshing change from ad hominen, soaked in oiled herrings etc.

His OP is another magnum opus as well: weighing in at 4,738 words, or 4,500 words if you take out the scripture.

Good stuff guys, keep it coming!

[edit] I can't image how I spelled imagine wrong

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Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 659
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,10:39   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 23 2012,10:04)
Some good theotard from tgpeeler:
           
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I think the problem ultimately boils down to rebellion. If God is Reason, and He is (I AM WHO I AM – an expression of the Law of Identity and the basis for all thought, rational or otherwise, because it is the basis for all language) then to reject Reason is to reject God. We are not dealing with intellectual problems here, we are dealing with willfully disobedient (to the First Principles of rational thought) fools (Psalm 14:1). It’s a hard thing to say but there it is. I hope lurkers are being reached because I’ve never had one acknowledgement of undeniable truth “out here” in years of posting with the ELs and their ilk. At bottom, this is moral degeneracy because it is willful and obstinate rebellion against undeniable Truths. Isaiah warned against this when he said “woe to those who call evil good and good evil.” This is a violation of the law of identity. And woe to those who do it.
$0.02

           
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9
Axel, February 22, 2012, 6:50 pm
Spot on, tg. Insightful and lucid.

10
BrentFebruary 23, 2012 at 8:28 am
tgpeeler,

If that’s two cents’ worth I don’t think we need to worry about inflation just now. Very nice!

11
William J MurrayFebruary 23, 2012 at 9:03 am
tgpeeler and StephenB,

Beautiful, truthful messages.

Yurgh! Are they deliberately trying to piss me off? "If God is Reason, [and I've obviously got the inside track on what is Reasonable] then to reject [my version of] Reason is to reject God"

"willful and obstinate rebellion against undeniable Truths"? Yep, that's it. It's completely undeniable and I'm just being awkward.

Still, they will have the last laugh from atop their fluffy clouds as I descend woefully into the Pit. They love us really.

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SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,10:48   

fucking drunks

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
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