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Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,06:55   

darth314    
Quote
such hybrids are not fertile with its parent plants

DaveScot    
Quote
Incorrect. Fertility is often reduced but not to zero.

Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. But that's the point made by Darwin in Origin of Species. Species are not immutable, but often form a reproductive continuum. This is the expected pattern when speciation is a gradual process of isolation.

Lions and tigers are clearly different species, even though they can produce fertile offspring on occasion. They rarely if ever do so in nature, and there is no significant gene-flow between the populations, hence they maintain their fundamental differences.

DaveScot
Quote
 If all you’re going to do here is rehash tired arguments we’ve heard too many times already I’m afraid I’ll have to ask you to leave. Read the moderation policy on the sidebar.

Now that's funny.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,08:43   

As I am STILL writing this review of organocatalysis and STILL near homicidal at the very sight of a proline molecule in my lunch break I altered a ditty.

The Creationist of Bray

In Good Duane Gish's golden days,
When loyalty no harm meant,
A furious Young Earth I was
And so I gained Preferment.
Unto the rubes I daily preach'd
Earth was by God created,
And damned are those who dare dissent
Or claim me addle-pated.

Chorus:

And this is law, I will not doubt
Unto my dying day, Sir.
That whatever data comes about,
I will be the creationist of Bray, Sir!

When Aussie Ken took up the crown,
And A.I.G. grew in fashion,
Yet more science I shouted down,
And claimed the Flood's fair ration.
The Flood of old I could agree,
Fit well within my yearnings,
A hydrodynamic canopy,
Aided my master's earnings.

Chorus

When Hovind our Deliverer came
To heal Creation's greivance,
I turned coat from A.I.G.,
And swore to him allegiance.
Old principles did I revoke
When Kent's taxes did ail.
The I.R.S. it is a joke,
Until Kent went to gaol!

Chorus

When Phillip J. became out King,
Whilst taking Howard's money.
Another face of things was seen,
Reconstruction isn't funny.
We made, i'faith, a mighty Wedge
For God to run the Nation,
With "Pandas" we did make our Pledge,
But poor spelling caused Elation.

Chorus

The Dicso boys did raise a Tent,
Into which we all scurried
My Principle I changed once more,
But our arguments still were hurried.
The flagellum to Behe's mind
became our faith's Defender,
But it bent and bit his pert behind
For in court he was found Pretender.

Chorus

The Illustrious House of Bill Dembski
A Creationist succession,
To these I lustily will swear,
Whilst they can keep possession.
For in my faith, and Loyalty,
I never once will faulter,
But Bill my lawful King shall be,
Except the Times should alter.

Badly modified from "The Vicar of Bray".

Details here and here.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,08:47   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 31 2007,00:57)
SHUT UP AND LISTEN, 'CAUSE I'M TALKING. YOU'LL SEE WHATS WAHT IN MY 1000 POST, WHICH IS SOON, AND WILL HAVE ITS OWN THREAD. WE'LL SORT THE MONKEY LOVERS FROM TEH DESIGNED AUTODICTORS (IQ 150+++).

HOO-RAH SMEPER TARD.

Okay, I can't resist asking. Is this some kind of Being John Malkovich situation? Do you have a door into Davescot's brain that allows you to divert some of his tard here? :D  I ask because you do that so well.

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,09:46   

Quote (afarensis @ Jan. 31 2007,16:47)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 31 2007,00:57)
SHUT UP AND LISTEN, 'CAUSE I'M TALKING. YOU'LL SEE WHATS WAHT IN MY 1000 POST, WHICH IS SOON, AND WILL HAVE ITS OWN THREAD. WE'LL SORT THE MONKEY LOVERS FROM TEH DESIGNED AUTODICTORS (IQ 150+++).

HOO-RAH SMEPER TARD.

Okay, I can't resist asking. Is this some kind of Being John Malkovich situation? Do you have a door into Davescot's brain that allows you to divert some of his tard here? :D  I ask because you do that so well.

I think Richard does DT BETTER than DT himself.

look here's the real thing

http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/2008#comment-88699
Davetard:
Quote
.....It’s not an engineering approach either. This is a gross, absurd extrapolation. It’s like demonstrating that rocks can be piled 100 meters high and using this as proof of concept that one can make a pile that reaches the moon. Sometimes things like that work and sometimes they don’t.


Can't do biology, can't do rocket science, can't grow musrhrooms...whats left?

...Mythical 3 headed guard dog? .....with each head barking conflicting arguments .....WmAD's Cerberus

WHO RA? QUE SERA, SERA

I'll hound you to Hades, Homo -DT

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,10:08   

Quote (k.e @ Jan. 31 2007,09:46)
Quote (afarensis @ Jan. 31 2007,16:47)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 31 2007,00:57)
SHUT UP AND LISTEN, 'CAUSE I'M TALKING. YOU'LL SEE WHATS WAHT IN MY 1000 POST, WHICH IS SOON, AND WILL HAVE ITS OWN THREAD. WE'LL SORT THE MONKEY LOVERS FROM TEH DESIGNED AUTODICTORS (IQ 150+++).

HOO-RAH SMEPER TARD.

Okay, I can't resist asking. Is this some kind of Being John Malkovich situation? Do you have a door into Davescot's brain that allows you to divert some of his tard here? :D  I ask because you do that so well.

I think Richard does DT BETTER than DT himself.

look here's the real thing

http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/2008#comment-88699
Davetard:
Quote
.....It’s not an engineering approach either. This is a gross, absurd extrapolation. It’s like demonstrating that rocks can be piled 100 meters high and using this as proof of concept that one can make a pile that reaches the moon. Sometimes things like that work and sometimes they don’t.


Can't do biology, can't do rocket science, can't grow musrhrooms...whats left?

...Mythical 3 headed guard dog? .....with each head barking conflicting arguments .....WmAD's Cerberus

WHO RA? QUE SERA, SERA

I'll hound you to Hades, Homo -DT

I do too. I usually end up laughing hysterically every time Richardthughes goes DaveScot on us :p

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,11:00   

Speaking of Uncommon Descent could someone please hide the word of the day toilet paper from the Tard:

 
Quote


10

DaveScot

01/31/2007

9:44 am

 
Quote
amadan

Intelligent people of all backgrounds look at the same evidence as you and do not interpret it in a pro-theistic light.


Intelligent people of all backgrounds experience the numinous which can be quite compelling, quite impossible to ignore, and thus resists discounting by rationalization.


--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,12:05   

Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 31 2007,06:55)
darth314            
Quote
such hybrids are not fertile with its parent plants

DaveScot            
Quote
Incorrect. Fertility is often reduced but not to zero.

Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. But that's the point made by Darwin in Origin of Species. Species are not immutable, but often form a reproductive continuum. This is the expected pattern when speciation is a gradual process of isolation.

Lions and tigers are clearly different species, even though they can produce fertile offspring on occasion. They rarely if ever do so in nature, and there is no significant gene-flow between the populations, hence they maintain their fundamental differences.

John Wilkins, philosopher of biology at Evolving Thoughts, blogs on the species concept.  
Quote
So we don't need to have a monistic or singular definition of species, because they are things to be explained, not a priori categories into which every biological organism must be fitted.

DaveScot confuses the category with the thing itself.


Quote
DaveScot        
Quote
 If all you’re going to do here is rehash tired arguments we’ve heard too many times already I’m afraid I’ll have to ask you to leave. Read the moderation policy on the sidebar.

Now that's funny.

It's not so much that DaveScot is wrong, but that he doesn't even seem to be at all knowledgeable about the very Theory of Evolution he hopes to undermine.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
jeannot



Posts: 1201
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,13:21   

It seems that we are witnessing a shift in Davescot's theory of ID.

He once argued for common descent, now he opposes the concepts behind "micro-evolution" (namely natural selection), that even AIG and other wingnuts admit.

Interesting...

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,13:44   

Quote (jeannot @ Jan. 31 2007,13:21)
It seems that we are witnessing a shift in Davescot's theory of ID.

He once argued for common descent, now he opposes the concepts behind "micro-evolution" (namely natural selection), that even AIG and other wingnuts admit.

Interesting...

This makes sense if you assume that Intelligent Design is basically what I would call "folk science". That is, it's essentially made up by all of its followers as they go along, and that any definition of it put forth by anybody (as long as they oppose 'Darwinism') is equally valid. Since ID has no research and makes no predictions, there can be no consensus version of it which is agreed on by its advocates.

This explains why people like theologians, engineers, graphic artists, refrigerator repairmen and property managers loom so large among its most vocal supporters.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,13:52   

Mark my words; By this time next year, Dave will have gone all YEC on us.

He will probably justify it with an "anything goes" approach to science, and use lots of irrelevant philosophical quotes to do so, but he'll still be a bleeding-heart Yeccy.

And proud of it, homo- The Telic Designer hates fags! And bans them! semper fizzle! -ds

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,14:20   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 31 2007,13:44)
This explains why people like theologians, engineers, graphic artists, refrigerator repairmen and property managers loom so large among its most vocal supporters.

Magic stuff - for those who aren't regulars, he's serious, that is *exactly* the professions they have.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,15:26   

Larry Moran over at Sandwalk blogs  
Quote
GilDodgen over at Uncommon Descent has put his foot in it once again... Now I've seen some pretty stupid things over at the Dembski headquarters but calling Monod's book "a foundational Darwinian text" just about takes the cake.


--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Altabin



Posts: 308
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,15:43   

Dave has a new post up entitled:
Quote
Cheap, safe drug kills most cancers

Well duh, Dave, we know all about it already from OE.  Me, I've been manufacturing the stuff by the gallon ever since I read Krazy Kazmer's peer-reviewed article.

Wait, that's not it?  Oh well, carry on then...

--------------

  
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,16:02   

Quote (Altabin @ Jan. 31 2007,13:43)
Dave has a new post up entitled:
 
Quote
Cheap, safe drug kills most cancers

Well duh, Dave, we know all about it already from OE.  Me, I've been manufacturing the stuff by the gallon ever since I read Krazy Kazmer's peer-reviewed article.

Wait, that's not it?  Oh well, carry on then...

"Agnostic" Mike1962 chips in:
Quote


Please God, let it be so.


--------------
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,16:30   

Quote (k.e @ Jan. 31 2007,00:37)
I now have the photo to prove Arden is gay unless Richard can come up with a hawt-er photo (of himself)

ALRIGHT SHUP UP AND LISTEN 'CAUSE I'M TALKING. HERE'S A PICTURE OF ME:



AND I KNOW THAT EVEN TEH STARIGHT ONES AMONGST YOU (YEAH NO CHANCE OF THAT ON    AFTER THE HOMO CLOSES     AFTER TEH BAR HOMO     HOMO THE BAR CLOSES      THIS BOARD WILL THINK I'M HAWT AND POSTURE AND FAWN TO RECIEVE MY SEED. THERE ARE NO RANDOM MUTATIONS IN MINE, THEY ARE DESIGNED, SPAM-SPERMIA AS JAD SAYS, NOT THAT I LIKE HIM BUT HE IS A BIT OF A GENIUS ALTHOUGH I CAME TO THE SAME CONCLUSIONS INDPENDANTLY ON MY OWN AND I DONT SMELL OF PEE AND BELONG IN AN OLD FOLKS HOME.

THIS IS ME, YOUR INTELLECTUAL SUPEREIOR SIGNING OFF FROM TEH AQUATIC MOBILE COMMAND CENTER©.


MUMRA SMEPER TARD!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,16:35   

Quote
But that's the point made by Darwin in Origin of Species. Species are not immutable, but often form a reproductive continuum. This is the expected pattern when speciation is a gradual process of isolation.

Lions and tigers are clearly different species, even though they can produce fertile offspring on occasion. They rarely if ever do so in nature, and there is no significant gene-flow between the populations, hence they maintain their fundamental differences.

I can't find the quote by O'Leary in which she lamented that "species" had no hard-and-fast definition, but was about a month or so ago.

Well, that just makes sense, doesn't it? If species are not immutable, the concept of species is useful but in reality the phenomenon is not as rigidly defined as, say, a specific wavelength of light or the particular atomic structure of an element (and those are additive anyway, right?).

Sometimes they get so close to getting it. It's like waiting for the phone to ring. I'm standing by with champagne, party favors and a special shimmy.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,16:51   

Quote (k.e @ Jan. 31 2007,00:37)
yeah baby ....hahahahaha....evil grin ....twirls mustache ....I now have the photo to prove Arden is gay unless Richard can come up with a hawt-er photo (of himself)

You can't prove a thing! That could have been anyone's butt!



Quote
THIS BOARD WILL THINK I'M HAWT AND POSTURE AND FAWN TO RECIEVE MY SEED. THERE ARE NO RANDOM MUTATIONS IN MINE, THEY ARE DESIGNED, SPAM-SPERMIA AS JAD SAYS,


But does it cure cancer?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,17:16   

Quote (afarensis @ Jan. 31 2007,12:00)
Speaking of Uncommon Descent could someone please hide the word of the day toilet paper from the Tard:

 
Quote


10

DaveScot

01/31/2007

9:44 am

 
Quote
amadan

Intelligent people of all backgrounds look at the same evidence as you and do not interpret it in a pro-theistic light.


Intelligent people of all backgrounds experience the numinous which can be quite compelling, quite impossible to ignore, and thus resists discounting by rationalization.

Wait, is DaveTard actually arguing that because people believe in the supernatural that one should not discount it by rationalization?  What a tard.

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,17:17   

O'Leary blogs her blog.  
Quote
As agnostic Australian philosopher David Stove has shown in Darwinian Fairytales (1995), most societies have encouraged citizens to breed. Where they don't (as ours doesn't), we see little evidence of any inner drive to breed shaped by natural selection.

Ack! I'm completely astounded. A primary "inner drive" is to have sex. Pregnancies ensue whether socially encouraged or not. How much ignorance of basic biology, a.k.a. the facts of life, can someone exhibit?

(Of course, humans also have "inner drives" to suckle and be suckled, to play, to show off, to have social status, etc.)

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,17:27   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 01 2007,00:30)
Quote (k.e @ Jan. 31 2007,00:37)
I now have the photo to prove Arden is gay unless Richard can come up with a hawt-er photo (of himself)

ALRIGHT SHUP UP AND LISTEN 'CAUSE I'M TALKING. HERE'S A PICTURE OF ME:



AND I KNOW THAT EVEN TEH STARIGHT ONES AMONGST YOU (YEAH NO CHANCE OF THAT ON    AFTER THE HOMO CLOSES     AFTER TEH BAR HOMO     HOMO THE BAR CLOSES      THIS BOARD WILL THINK I'M HAWT AND POSTURE AND FAWN TO RECIEVE MY SEED. THERE ARE NO RANDOM MUTATIONS IN MINE, THEY ARE DESIGNED, SPAM-SPERMIA AS JAD SAYS, NOT THAT I LIKE HIM BUT HE IS A BIT OF A GENIUS ALTHOUGH I CAME TO THE SAME CONCLUSIONS INDPENDANTLY ON MY OWN AND I DONT SMELL OF PEE AND BELONG IN AN OLD FOLKS HOME.

THIS IS ME, YOUR INTELLECTUAL SUPEREIOR SIGNING OFF FROM TEH AQUATIC MOBILE COMMAND CENTER©.


MUMRA SMEPER TARD!

whooohoooooo

stands on chair and cheers

GO DickTard!!!! UR THE GREATEST OOH OOH OOH

HOOF ARTed SEMPER TURD.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,18:19   

Uncommonly Denyse is a precious resource.  Remarking upon John Horgan's ten year old "The End of Science," she first quotes Horgan:

"Evolutionary biology reminds us that we are animals, shaped by natural selection not for discovering deep truths of nature but for breeding."

She remarks,
   
Quote
Huh? First off, anyone surveying the science-minded Western world's birth rates will certainly not think that Horgan's proposition is self-evidently true. As agnostic Australian philosopher David Stove has shown in Darwinian Fairytales (1995), most societies have encouraged citizens to breed. Where they don't (as ours doesn't), we see little evidence of any inner drive to breed shaped by natural selection. But we always see plenty of evidence of people wanting to discover deep truths, whether these truths are to be found legitimately in science, faith, or public service or illegitimately in drugs, sex, or power.

Uh, Denyse, I hate to break this to you, but...Oh, never mind.

This paragraph can be improved considerably by moving the first word from beginning to end:
   
Quote
First off, anyone surveying the science-minded Western world's birth rates will certainly not think that Horgan's proposition is self-evidently true. As agnostic Australian philosopher David Stove has shown in Darwinian Fairytales (1995), most societies have encouraged citizens to breed. Where they don't (as ours doesn't), we see little evidence of any inner drive to breed shaped by natural selection. But we always see plenty of evidence of people wanting to discover deep truths, whether these truths are to be found legitimately in science, faith, or public service or illegitimately in drugs, sex, or power.  Huh?


--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,20:38   

Re "I think Richard does DT BETTER than DT himself."

I'm trying to figure out if Richard was just complimented, insulted, or simply given another line for his signature...

---

Re "can't grow musrhrooms... whats left?"

Yeah, hard to be fun gi's if'n ya can't grow mushrooms, huh?

---

Henry

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,20:57   

Quote (Henry J @ Feb. 01 2007,04:38)
Re "I think Richard does DT BETTER than DT himself."

I'm trying to figure out if Richard was just complimented, insulted, or simply given another line for his signature...

---

Re "can't grow musrhrooms... whats left?"

Yeah, hard to be fun gi's if'n ya can't grow mushrooms, huh?

---

Henry

Henry for DT Mushrooms are very special they were going to be his key to his Nobel Prize.

He bought the kit.
Hardly a day doesn't go by when he doesn't mention his entardening mushy experiences.

PM him and see when the Champignons à la Tard will be on the table. Should be any day now.

The bilges of Chez de l'eau Tard would be brimming now and the rear deck eminating an heady aroma of Champignons à la Tard for miles around if he had the slightest mushroom growing ability.

Richard is not a mushroom and so is his parody.

I rest my case.

HOO RAH  SEMPER FUNGI

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,20:59   

Meanwhile, ScornedOva throws buckets of pasta against the wall:
       
Quote
Irreducible Complexity in Mathematics, Physics and Biology
scordova

There is a new paper on Irreducible Complexity by renowned mathematician Gregory Chaitin: The Halting Probability Omega: Irreducible Complexity in Pure Mathematics Milan Journal of Mathematics, Vol. 75, 2007...On the surface Chaitin’s notion of Irreducible Complexity (IC) in math may seem totally irrelevant to Irreducible Complexity (IC) in ID literature.

On the surface, half way down, and at the bottom.  Because, Sal, you're right: the concepts discussed therein are totally irrelevant to ID's brand of IC.  Utterly unrelated. (And it's not a paper. It's a lecture.)

We need a new name for this - something more primitive than quote mining - something like clang association in schizophrenia.  Clang mining.  "Look, it says complexity, and it says irreducible!  It supports ID!  IC permeates everything!! Gaaaaaa!!!

But 'Ova contains himself, and continues:
       
Quote
First, of consider this article archived at Access Research Network (ARN) by George Johnson in the NY Times on IC in physics:

Challenging Particle Physics as Path to Truth

A five year old newspaper piece that, if anything, completely undermines the "cosmological" version of ID (fine tuning of constants, etc.), reporting the assertion of solid state physicists that what appear to be noncontingent physical laws are actually contingent, and derived.  But they're too dim over at ARN to notice:
       
Quote
The notion of emergent laws is not radical in itself. A flask of gas consists of trillions of molecules randomly colliding with one another. From this disorder, qualities like temperature and pressure emerge, along with laws relating one to the other.

So take that idea a level deeper. Physicists now believe that the vacuum of space is, paradoxically, not vacuous at all. It seethes with energy, in the form of “virtual particles” constantly flitting in and out of existence. So perhaps, Dr. Volovik suggests, even laws now considered fundamental emerged from this constant subatomic buzz."

So much for fine tuning.

Sal concludes by tossing a few cheese-filled rigatoni.  Something about emergent qualities = incomputability, again utterly unrelated to ID's notion of Irreproducible Complexification.  He breathlessly concludes,
       
Quote
Let me suggest, IC in math will permeate physics and therefore biology!

No, we're not going to let you suggest that, Sal, until you provide SOME sort of warrant for doing so.  Or at least a bit of pesto.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,21:06   

mmmm pesto.... (drool...)


   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,21:07   

Little did you know that DaveTard's secretly searching for alternate sources of the quizzlestick's "miracle cancer cure:"    
This is part of his latest crop.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,21:10   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 01 2007,05:07)
Little did you know that DaveTard's secretly searching for alternate sources of the quizzlestick's "miracle cancer cure:"    
This is part of his latest crop.

Dang we don't get 'Play Fungi' down here

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,21:22   

Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 31 2007,20:38)
Re "I think Richard does DT BETTER than DT himself."

I'm trying to figure out if Richard was just complimented, insulted, or simply given another line for his signature...

I wont fit, I've used all of my characters.  :angry:

I TOLD YOU EVILUTION COULDN'T ADD ANY MORE INFORMATION.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,21:34   

It was a tight fit!

HOO RAH! SEMPER FIT

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2007,22:05   

I saw that post of Salivatin' "word salad" Salvador Cordova...he's quite the idiot to combine Goedel, that article on virtual "particles" and biology just because he sees terms like "irreducible" in them. http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/2013

I honestly think he's like AFDave: he latches on to anything that he "thinks" can help his cause, then posts it up for others to examine.

He then evaluates the criticism and if it's still possible for him to USE the claim ( if it's ambiguous enough, ethereal enough, twisted enough) then he'll add it to his list of  "things Sal repeats endlessly without having any grasp of "

It's really amusing in its own way.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
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