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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Uncommonly Dense Thread 5

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sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,01:53    Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 20 2015,18:20) Unfortunately, she won't tell us how to blow up and milk the cow she just created. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

timothya Posts: 280 Joined: April 2013 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,04:31    Diogenes lays waste to the UD Cosmologists.. And their answer to the problems of quantum mechanics is . . . wait for it . . . The Shroud of Turin! Make of this what you will. -------------- "In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread." Anatole France

REC Posts: 638 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,09:58    Yep. This morning, the two biggest evidences on UD are the Shroud of Turin and Saint Joseph of Cupertino flying around Italy in the 1600's (from a vjtorley post against Larry Moran).

Woodbine Posts: 1218 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,11:00    Demons, ghosts, talking animals, levitating monks.... They really do live in a cartoon universe.

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,15:42    Over at UD a TED petition has Humbled salivating over a new age of science (or is it New Age science?)   Quote 2 humbled  February 20, 2015 at 7:09 am This is good news. Science can finally be put right and freed from the shackles of materialism. We can all see how little materialistic science has been able to produce.  Off the top of my head: Aircraft Automobiles Cancer treatment Cell phones Computers Diabetes treatment Discovery of the neutrino GPS Higgs Boson Quantum physics Radar Radio Relativity theory Space probes to planets, moons, asteroids and comets. Television Vaccines Obviously,  it's as nothing compared with the output of immaterial, supernatural research.  What is the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum physics compared with morphic resonance? humbled goes on to fantasize about Inquisition Redux:   Quote I would then hold a tribunal where those responsible for the scientific dark age we find ourselves in currently are made to account and atone for their grave sins against humanity Could it be that this is a scientific Dark Age only for those who wear the blinkers of religious belief that blind them to all but their own dark fantasies?   Quote These science terrorists need to be brought to justice. Poe?  Perhaps.  There are many at UD for whom this is fundamental truth.. And I think Arrington would like nothing more than to chair one of humbled's McCarthyite science tribunals.

NoName Posts: 2729 Joined: Mar. 2013 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,15:48    Don't forget plumbing, indoor plumbing, and septic systems. It is claimed, and I suspect 100% true, that indoor plumbing saved more human lives in the 20th century than medicine and antibiotics. Before materialistic science, life was nasty, brutish, and short.  The living envied the dead, and with fairly good reason. UD would love to reinstate that world because they fantasize that they would be in charge, and that they could have that world but with all the 'modern conveniences' for themselves. But of course, they are too 'ethereal' to worry about the end results of digestion, of metabolism.  Nasty gross materialist stuff. They are contemptible.

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,16:35    Quote (NoName @ Feb. 21 2015,15:48) Don't forget plumbing, indoor plumbing, and septic systems. It is claimed, and I suspect 100% true, that indoor plumbing saved more human lives in the 20th century than medicine and antibiotics. Before materialistic science, life was nasty, brutish, and short.  The living envied the dead, and with fairly good reason. UD would love to reinstate that world because they fantasize that they would be in charge, and that they could have that world but with all the 'modern conveniences' for themselves. But of course, they are too 'ethereal' to worry about the end results of digestion, of metabolism.  Nasty gross materialist stuff. They are contemptible. Excellent points  People prefer to ignore just how much  proper sewage management has contributed to their health and well-being. As a young Winston Churchill once put it, " “I see little glory in an Empire which can rule the waves and is unable to flush its sewers.” Of course, I suppose one advantage of an immaterial being is immaterial waste. And if you substitute "materialists" for "Romans" here....

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,16:56    Has anybody else noticed that according to the ID twits, if science doesn't come up with the Answer to the origin of life in, oh, the next 15 minutes or so, then science is bogus because they've had maybe 50 to 75 years to realistically work on the problem and they still don't have the answer.  I mean, really, if science can't tell us exactly what happened at the sub-microscopic, molecular level at an unknown location four billion years ago, then it's clearly bogus, right? Meanwhile, Christianity (the only true religion), has had 2000+ years to work on the problem and the only answer they've come up with in that time has been proven to be miserably, foolishly, childishly wrong. ID - The Wave of the Future! PS: As mentioned above, VJTorley is on another Flying Saint kick.  Is there anything this highly trained, PhD credentialed, Serious Philosopher won't believe?

Soapy Sam Posts: 659 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,18:23    Quote (Seversky @ Feb. 21 2015,21:42) Poe?  Perhaps.   humbled? Don't think so. Unpleasant type. Thinks homosexuality is an aberration 'like autism', and gays should not be encouraged to feel they are normal - like people with autism! Never was a nym more ironically inapt. -------------- SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,19:09    Quote (Soapy Sam @ Feb. 21 2015,16:23) Quote (Seversky @ Feb. 21 2015,21:42) Poe?  Perhaps.   humbled? Don't think so. Unpleasant type. Thinks homosexuality is an aberration 'like autism', and gays should not be encouraged to feel they are normal - like people with autism! Never was a nym more ironically inapt. Is this connected to that clueless Rupert Sheldrake wankfest? -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,22:04    Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 21 2015,19:09) Quote (Soapy Sam @ Feb. 21 2015,16:23)   Quote (Seversky @ Feb. 21 2015,21:42) Poe?  Perhaps.   humbled? Don't think so. Unpleasant type. Thinks homosexuality is an aberration 'like autism', and gays should not be encouraged to feel they are normal - like people with autism! Never was a nym more ironically inapt. Is this connected to that clueless Rupert Sheldrake wankfest? You mean The Manifesto for a Post-Materialist Science? New Age mysticism dressed up in a white lab coat.

Woodbine Posts: 1218 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2015,23:35    Quote (Seversky @ Feb. 22 2015,04:04) New Age mysticism dressed up in a white lab coat. Speaking of which, did anyone else laugh when they saw Anne Hathaway wearing a lab coat while flying to Saturn in Interstellar? What a hilariously bad film that was; Gary Gaulin could have written better dialogue.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2015,00:02    Unclear on the concept:   Quote When a cell divides, its DNA’s operational instructions are copied by RNA (ribonucleic acid), which directs the proteins that build cell machinery. Who else?

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2015,03:49    Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 22 2015,00:02) Unclear on the concept:   Quote When a cell divides, its DNA’s operational instructions are copied by RNA (ribonucleic acid), which directs the proteins that build cell machinery. Who else? is this part of this Post-Menopausal Science thingie she's been pushing recently?

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2015,03:55    Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 21 2015,23:35) Quote (Seversky @ Feb. 22 2015,04:04) New Age mysticism dressed up in a white lab coat. Speaking of which, did anyone else laugh when they saw Anne Hathaway wearing a lab coat while flying to Saturn in Interstellar? What a hilariously bad film that was; Gary Gaulin could have written better dialogue. Not one of the greatest, I agree.  Some nice SFX/CGI, though.  I particularly liked the rendering of the wormhole mouth.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2015,05:47    Diogenes 7 - Berlinski 0         Quote 54 Diogenes February 19, 2015 at 4:14 pm       Quote BA77: Berlinski: No need to come again: I got to where I was going the first time. The number four, after all, did not come into existence at a particular time, and it is not going to go out of existence at another time. It is neither here nor there. Nonetheless we are in some sense able to grasp the number by a faculty of our minds. Mathematical intuition is utterly mysterious. So for that matter is the fact that mathematical objects such as a Lie Group or a differentiable manifold have the power to interact with elementary particles or accelerating forces. Dammit Berlinski, if you say that again I’m going to hit you with the number seven! Multiverse Thread

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2015,02:50    I hit a page I wrote years back and noticed that I had proposed some counter-questions... Dembski's "Intelligent design" questions for teachers -- answered   Quote Appendix: Ten Questions About "Intelligent Design" Q1. Why do "Intelligent Design" advocates talk about "Intelligent Design theory", but have never actually proposed a theory that passes scientific muster? Q2. If "Intelligent Design" were true, there should be biological systems that we have a lot of data about their origin and for which we should not find any plausible evolutionary process to explain it. Why have none of these sort of systems been found? Q3. In the "Intelligent Design" textbook, Of Pandas and People (OPAP), it talks about how transitional fossils in the whale lineage are lacking, and that maybe they never existed. Since OPAP was published, many whale fossils have been found that fill in the periods in question. Why should we consider the current claims of "Intelligent Design" advocates to be any more reliable than the claim about fossil whales in OPAP? Q4. If "Intelligent Design" is all about science, why do "Intelligent Design" advocates do much of their speaking at churches? Q5. If "Intelligent Design" is all about science, why are there 900 articles returned for a search on "cold fusion" from the ISI Web of Knowledge, over 900 articles returned from searching PubMed for "horse feces", and almost none for the sort of thing that "Intelligent Design" advocates mean when they say "intelligent design"? Q6. If "Intelligent Design" is all about science, why is it that only Christians can be officers of IDEA Clubs? Q7. If "Intelligent Design" is all about science, why did William Dembski say that it was merely the Logos theology stated in the idiom of information theory? Q8. If "Intelligent Design" is all about science, why have "Intelligent Design" advocates spent most of their time trying to change K-12 science classes, and hardly any of their time trying to convince the scientific community that they have a good, scientific idea? Q9. If "Intelligent Design" is all about science, why does the Discovery Institute hire a big public relations firm like "Creative Response Concepts" instead of funding some research studies? Q10. If "Intelligent Design" is all about paradigm-changing science, why can you find earlier forms of all their arguments in earlier creationist and natural theology literature? -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2015,04:33    BA77: Quote Krauss is full of it. A self-promoting pompous little ass who makes mistakes so elementary that first year philosophy students could eat him for lunch. Message 117 in the Multiverse Thread.

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2015,05:32    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 23 2015,02:50) I hit a page I wrote years back and noticed that I had proposed some counter-questions... Dembski's "Intelligent design" questions for teachers -- answered     Quote Appendix: Ten Questions About "Intelligent Design" Q5. If "Intelligent Design" is all about science, why are there 900 articles returned for a search on "cold fusion" from the ISI Web of Knowledge, over 900 articles returned from searching PubMed for "horse feces", and almost none for the sort of thing that "Intelligent Design" advocates mean when they say "intelligent design"? "horse f[a]eces" is now over 1100, "cold fusion" 7 short of 1k. "intelligent design" at 628, "specified complexity" has 10, and "irreducible complexity" up to a massive 38, the most recent of which is this amusing contribution. I suspect almost all hits on horse f[a]eces are indeed about equine shit, whereas a lot of the hits for intelligent design aren't about what IDers want to discuss. -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2015,08:02    Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 23 2015,05:32) Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 23 2015,02:50) I hit a page I wrote years back and noticed that I had proposed some counter-questions... Dembski's "Intelligent design" questions for teachers -- answered     Quote Appendix: Ten Questions About "Intelligent Design" Q5. If "Intelligent Design" is all about science, why are there 900 articles returned for a search on "cold fusion" from the ISI Web of Knowledge, over 900 articles returned from searching PubMed for "horse feces", and almost none for the sort of thing that "Intelligent Design" advocates mean when they say "intelligent design"? "horse f[a]eces" is now over 1100, "cold fusion" 7 short of 1k. "intelligent design" at 628, "specified complexity" has 10, and "irreducible complexity" up to a massive 38, the most recent of which is this amusing contribution. I suspect almost all hits on horse f[a]eces are indeed about equine shit, whereas a lot of the hits for intelligent design aren't about what IDers want to discuss. Why is the stuff I want to read always behind a paywall? Though I admit to being curious, the abstract reads like a senior thesis where they applied the thesaurus a little too liberally. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Soapy Sam Posts: 659 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2015,13:36    WJM:     Quote When you see a group constantly employing ridicule towards other views, they’re not really interested in an open exchange or honest debate of ideas. Yes, I know, irony is so old hat, and a tu quoque to boot. But irresistible. -------------- SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2015,14:43    Larry Moran schools Torley it's long, and delicious.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2015,14:54    Quote (Soapy Sam @ Feb. 23 2015,14:36) WJM:     Quote When you see a group constantly employing ridicule towards other views, they’re not really interested in an open exchange or honest debate of ideas. Yes, I know, irony is so old hat, and a tu quoque to boot. But irresistible. I'm not interested in honestly debating UD ding-dongs. What would be the point of that?

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2015,15:53    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 23 2015,12:43) Larry Moran schools Torley it's long, and delicious. Oh for fuck's sake, not the flying priest again.  Proper evidence or GTFO, Torley. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2015,18:48    Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 23 2015,04:33) BA77:   Quote Krauss is full of it. A self-promoting pompous little ass who makes mistakes so elementary that first year philosophy students could eat him for lunch. Message 117 in the Multiverse Thread. Quote Motive mongering and negative personal characterizations are not part of a true, reasonable skepticism. WJM in the "Manifesto for a Post-Materialist Science" thread at TSZ.

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2015,03:11    No comment needed. First, WJM Quote The “skeptics” we’re used to, and many who elsewhere call themselves skeptics, are not really skeptics at all; they’re ideologically fanatical bullies that employ ridicule and personal attacks as an emotional bludgeon to empower their narrative. Ridicule is not a tool of skepticism, science or logic; it is a tool of intellectual fascism. When you see a group constantly employing ridicule towards other views, they’re not really interested in an open exchange or honest debate of ideas. who is immediately followed by BarryA, of all people: Quote WJM, just so. As I’ve noted on the pages before, the denizens of The “Skeptical” Zone (irony quotes intentional), are skeptical of everything but their own beliefs, which they hold with a quasi-religious fervor that would have made a medieval churchman blush. And their beliefs are well within the cultural mainstream. Indeed, I have never read anything on that site that would make any of the occupants of the average faculty lounge the least bit uncomfortable. (edited to get shortened link right) Edited by Bob O'H on Feb. 24 2015,07:07 -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

KevinB Posts: 525 Joined: April 2013 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2015,11:54    I see UD has a thread that combines fine-tuning and pretzels. Perhaps someone should suggest that it's not fine-tuning, it's auto-tuning!

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2015,12:05    Quote (KevinB @ Feb. 24 2015,11:54) I see UD has a thread that combines fine-tuning and pretzels. Perhaps someone should suggest that it's not fine-tuning, it's auto-tuning! The celestial choir sings off-key? -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2015,12:07    Montserrat in the news: Jerry Coyne has an article on Why Evolution is True about two Canadian girls with leukemia sent to a quack clinic in Florida.  The proprietor of the clinic, Brian Clement, "claims to have a doctorate of naturopathic medicine and a PhD in nutrition from the University of Science Arts and Technology (USAT), based in Montserrat." The article goes on to say, "However, USAT president Orien Tulp said, “Brian Clement, he is not a naturopathic doctor from USAT. I can guarantee that. He shouldn’t be making false claims for one. If he is, I’ll withdraw his degree.” George Gollin, a professor at the University of Illinois who has investigated USAT, calls it a diploma mill. “It’s horrible,” Gollin says. “I could have printed him a degree on a laser printer and it would be … just as indicative of training and skills. What I think is terrible is that he’s using this, as I understand it, to treat patients who are desperately sick children.” Fakery seems to be endemic on Montserrat.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2015,16:20    Quote (KevinB @ Feb. 24 2015,11:54) I see UD has a thread that combines fine-tuning and pretzels. Perhaps someone should suggest that it's not fine-tuning, it's auto-tuning! *These pretzels are making me thirsty! >http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.....Webpage Edited by J-Dog on Feb. 24 2015,16:23 -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

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