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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,22:32   

On that thread you can watch Davetard complain that Obama is

1) racist
2) psychologically disturbed
3) corrupt with Wall Street banks
4) a radical
and 5) not black enough.

How can we be expected to mock them, if they're going to be this ridiculous?

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,22:46   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 23 2008,20:32)
On that thread you can watch Davetard complain that Obama is

1) racist
2) psychologically disturbed
3) corrupt with Wall Street banks
4) a radical
and 5) not black enough.

How can we be expected to mock them, if they're going to be this ridiculous?

He doesn't claim Obama's a Muslim??

Really. There used to be a time when DT took pride in his work.  :(

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,22:47   

An article by Steve Lopez in the Los Angeles Times today (Sept. 23) led me to this -- from Wasilla, Alaska music teacher and composer Phil Munger :


 
Quote
In June 1997, both Palin and I had responsibilities at the graduation ceremony of a small group of Wasilla area home schoolers. I directed the Mat-Su College Community Band, which played music, and she gave the commencement address. It was held at her church, the Wasilla Assembly of God.

Palin had recently become Wasilla mayor, beating her earliest mentor, John Stein, the then-incumbent mayor. A large part of her campaign had been to enlist fundamentalist Christian groups, and invoke evangelical buzzwords into her talks and literature.

As the ceremony concluded, I bumped into her in a hall away from other people. I congratulated her on her victory, and took her aside to ask about her faith.

Among other things, she declared that she was a young earth creationist, accepting both that the world was about 6,000-plus years old, and that humans and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time.

I asked how she felt about the second coming and the end times. She responded that she fully believed that the signs of Jesus returning soon "during MY lifetime," were obvious. "I can see that, maybe you can't - but it guides me every day." http://progressivealaska.blogspot.com/2008....ns.html


Of course, Phil Munger is a "Progressive" blogger and DaveTard will scarcely accept those credentials. However, Munger has lots of good info (and links to other Alaskan blogs with info) at his site. His "reasons why the Palin investigation should continue" is nice.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,22:55   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 23 2008,23:46)
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 23 2008,20:32)
On that thread you can watch Davetard complain that Obama is

1) racist
2) psychologically disturbed
3) corrupt with Wall Street banks
4) a radical
and 5) not black enough.

How can we be expected to mock them, if they're going to be this ridiculous?

He doesn't claim Obama's a Muslim??

Really. There used to be a time when DT took pride in his work.  :(

I expect we'll see that in the weeks ahead. I specifically expect to hear the UDers add that Obama's

1) a crypto-Muslim
2) used to sell drugs
3) and Arab

But I'm really hoping for something nutty that I haven't heard before, like that he rapes white women, or belongs to the Nation of Islam.

   
Zarquon



Posts: 71
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,23:00   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 24 2008,03:55)

I expect we'll see that in the weeks ahead. I specifically expect to hear the UDers add that Obama's

1) a crypto-Muslim



(via Pharyngula)

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,23:18   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 23 2008,20:55)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 23 2008,23:46)
 
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 23 2008,20:32)
On that thread you can watch Davetard complain that Obama is

1) racist
2) psychologically disturbed
3) corrupt with Wall Street banks
4) a radical
and 5) not black enough.

How can we be expected to mock them, if they're going to be this ridiculous?

He doesn't claim Obama's a Muslim??

Really. There used to be a time when DT took pride in his work.  :(

I expect we'll see that in the weeks ahead. I specifically expect to hear the UDers add that Obama's

1) a crypto-Muslim
2) used to sell drugs
3) and Arab

But I'm really hoping for something nutty that I haven't heard before, like that he rapes white women, or belongs to the Nation of Islam.

I've heard consistent rumors that he's fathered two black children.



Edited by Lou FCD on Sep. 24 2008,21:36

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,23:24   

Quote
I found the Sci-Am/A.K. Dewdney article in which is described the Apraphulian rope and pulley computer:


A thing like that could go on the science news thread. Fascinating.

Henry

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,23:25   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 23 2008,21:18)

I've heard consistent rumors that he's fathered two black children.

Yeah, and he doesn't even deny it.  Talk about brazen.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,23:29   

Does anybody know why the Fanie Mae, Fraud, Kickbacks, and Obama thread has been deleted?

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 23 2008,23:55   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 24 2008,00:29)
Does anybody know why the Fanie Mae, Fraud, Kickbacks, and Obama thread has been deleted?

No idea. So here's the text of the post. Fraid I didn't save any comments.
Quote

In his short time in Congress Senator Obama received more campaign contributions from Fanne Mae than 48 other currently serving Senators had received in their entire careers. Obama is a charismatic crook in the best Chicago political tradition. The socialist policies he’s supported, even as a young Harvard lawyer representing the low-income housing lobby, nearly caused the ruination of the world’s largest economy. Want to see the U.S. crash into some REALLY crushing poverty like that which plagued the former Soviet Union? If so then by all means vote for Mr. Barack “Karl Marx” Obama. On the other hand, if you want to see more of the greatest peacetime economic expansion in history which occured under Ronald Wilson Reagan, the kind of economic expansion that brought the Marx inspired socialist Soviet Union to its knees, then vote for war hero John McCain. The choice is just that simple.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,00:11   

The Dumb, it's so thick there:

Quote
if you want to see more of the greatest peacetime economic expansion in history which occured under Ronald Wilson Reagan,


that was true...until the 90's. And if you take 'peacetime' out it's wrong another way.

Quote
Want to see the U.S. crash into some REALLY crushing poverty like that which plagued the former Soviet Union? If so then by all means vote for Mr. Barack “Karl Marx” Obama.


Take a look at GDP figures under R and D administrations since WW2 and get back to me on that.



Quote
In his short time in Congress Senator Obama received more campaign contributions from Fanne Mae than 48 other currently serving Senators had received in their entire careers.


Not even remotely true. Obama isn't even Senator number 1, that would be Chris Dodd. And if I add Republican Senator Robert F. Bennett's $107,999 to Republican Senator Richard Shelby's $80,000, I get a number, $187,999, that even an ID supporter can figure out, with a little tutoring and some diagrams perhaps, is larger than Obama's $126,349.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news....ie.html


So maybe they deleted it because it was full of dumb lies they didn't spend a single minute checking.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,00:25   

Ah, I made an error. I misread it to say "Quote
In his short time in Congress Senator Obama received more campaign contributions from Fanne Mae than the next 48 other currently serving Senators had received in their entire careers.

Who cares? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac gave 57% of their contributions for 2 decades to Dems and 43% to Republicans. 5 of the top 10 recipients of those donations were Republicans. And so what? Obama worked with poor people in a big city. What would be weird is if they didn't give him any campaign contributions. It's a bogus comparison anyway. Obama's running a presidential campaign which has raised $400 million. Of course he's going to have more contributions than Some piddly senator from Rhode Island or Alabama.

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,00:36   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 23 2008,22:32)
On that thread you can watch Davetard complain that Obama is

1) racist
2) psychologically disturbed
3) corrupt with Wall Street banks
4) a radical
and 5) not black enough.

How can we be expected to mock them, if they're going to be this ridiculous?

Lilly Tomlin (on UD?): "I try to be cynical, but it's so hard to keep up."

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,00:41   

On second thought maybe I'm the dumb one. Here I am sober and reading the internet at 1:35 in the morning when there's perfectly good beer in the fridge.

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,00:49   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 23 2008,22:11)
So maybe they deleted it because it was full of dumb lies they didn't spend a single minute checking.

That presupposes a level of integrity on the part of DT & the people running UD for which I see no evidence.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,00:50   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 23 2008,22:41)
On second thought maybe I'm the dumb one. Here I am sober and reading the internet at 1:35 in the morning when there's perfectly good beer in the fridge.



--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,05:40   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 24 2008,00:11)
     
Quote
Want to see the U.S. crash into some REALLY crushing poverty like that which plagued the former Soviet Union? If so then by all means vote for Mr. Barack “Karl Marx” Obama.


Take a look at GDP figures under R and D administrations since WW2 and get back to me on that.

Stock Market does better under Democrats, too.

So does family income growth at all income levels.

And what goes up more under Republicans?  Inflation, unemployment, and the budget deficit.  Thanks, GOP!

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,06:47   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 23 2008,23:24)
Quote
I found the Sci-Am/A.K. Dewdney article in which is described the Apraphulian rope and pulley computer:


A thing like that could go on the science news thread. Fascinating.

Henry

Uh, no.

Say the tribe name out loud several times.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
dheddle



Posts: 545
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,07:50   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 24 2008,06:47)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 23 2008,23:24)
 
Quote
I found the Sci-Am/A.K. Dewdney article in which is described the Apraphulian rope and pulley computer:


A thing like that could go on the science news thread. Fascinating.

Henry

Uh, no.

Say the tribe name out loud several times.

I don't know if anyone does 4/1 joke better than Sci Am. A personal favorite was Martin Gardner's refutation of the four color theorem.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,08:48   

DaveT:
[font='Comic Sans MS']
Quote
That said I’d love to have a president who just comes right out and tells the president of Iran that he can’t be both batsht crazy AND have nuclear weapons - destroy them or we will. Palin would probably do that - cut straight though all the undending, uselss diplomatic doubletalk and resolve the problem one way or another while it’s still manageable.
</span>

Why am I hearing America, Fuck yeah!-theme song in my head?


--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,08:55   

Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Sep. 24 2008,14:48)
DaveT:
[font='Comic Sans MS']
Quote
That said I’d love to have a president who just comes right out and tells the president of Iran that he can’t be both batsht crazy AND have nuclear weapons - destroy them or we will. Palin would probably do that - cut straight though all the undending, uselss diplomatic doubletalk and resolve the problem one way or another while it’s still manageable.
</span>

Why am I hearing America, Fuck yeah!-theme song in my head?

The question that you be more worried about is why is that song playing in Bush/McCain/Palin/Cheney/Rove's head(s)?

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,10:41   

Quote
DS said:

“Both Behe and Dembski have conceded that exaptation may produce what otherwise appears to be irreducible complexity.”

I want to parse what you are saying correctly in the context of this exchange. So what follows is a real (not rhetorical) question:

Is it correct to express their concession as, “We concede that stepwise processes (exaptation, scaffolding, etc.) can create structures that are indistinguishable from true IC structures, when evaluated in terms of the Behe/Demski definitions quoted above. However, these structures are not, by definition, truly IC because they were created by stepwise processes.”

Is that correct?


Linky

First time I've seen this exchange.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,10:44   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 24 2008,05:47)
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 23 2008,23:24)
Quote
I found the Sci-Am/A.K. Dewdney article in which is described the Apraphulian rope and pulley computer:


A thing like that could go on the science news thread. Fascinating.

Henry

Uh, no.

Say the tribe name out loud several times.

Phooey.
:p

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,11:27   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 24 2008,11:44)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 24 2008,05:47)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 23 2008,23:24)
 
Quote
I found the Sci-Am/A.K. Dewdney article in which is described the Apraphulian rope and pulley computer:


A thing like that could go on the science news thread. Fascinating.

Henry

Uh, no.

Say the tribe name out loud several times.

Phooey.
:p

But at a meta-level the article still has considerable value - and was intended in that spirit. The island and the rope-pulley computer is fictional (as I indicated on UD way back when) - but the fiction still illustrates the essential independence of the logic of computation from the physical substrate that instantiates that computation.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,14:28   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 24 2008,11:27)
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 24 2008,11:44)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 24 2008,05:47)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 23 2008,23:24)
   
Quote
I found the Sci-Am/A.K. Dewdney article in which is described the Apraphulian rope and pulley computer:


A thing like that could go on the science news thread. Fascinating.

Henry

Uh, no.

Say the tribe name out loud several times.

Phooey.
:p

But at a meta-level the article still has considerable value - and was intended in that spirit. The island and the rope-pulley computer is fictional (as I indicated on UD way back when) - but the fiction still illustrates the essential independence of the logic of computation from the physical substrate that instantiates that computation.

I just got a "back-channel " message from FTK* - She wants to know how we are so certain that the rope and pulley computer was invented on April 1...

 


* Not really.  But I could have.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,16:15   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 24 2008,00:18)
I've heard consistent rumors that he's fathered two black children.

Humor POTW

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,17:28   

Quote (GCT @ Sep. 24 2008,14:15)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 24 2008,00:18)
I've heard consistent rumors that he's fathered two black children.

Humor POTW

To be fair, I didn't think up that line. Steve used it here a couple weeks ago, and it was also used on Saturday Night Live just recently.

Nevertheless, I am here all week.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,19:16   

Whatever you do, Arden, make sure you don't bring crunchy peanut butter.

I couldn't walk for days.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Jkrebs



Posts: 590
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,19:23   

Rowan speaks up.  Will he last?

Quote
Get a grip. I’ve got lots of Obama supporting, Christian, moral friends, who care as much about life as you do. That’s like saying all Republicans are pro-death because they don’t support gun control laws.

At the end of the day, we all want to see ID get a fair hearing. We want to see the scientific mainstream wrestling with the scientific challenges of ID. So what’s going to make that happen? Is it going to be the endorsement of politicians like Bush and Palin who they have already dismissed as uninformed, religious fundamentalists. I really doubt it.

I think instead of demonizing one side of the polital spectrum, we need to be engaging with those who feel threatened by the ID camp’s apparent religious and political affiliations. Engaging only with the right, is pretty much preaching to the converted.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 24 2008,20:27   

I'm sure I didn't think it up. Some clever wag did. I did have one tiny intellectual success recently though:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....1123739

   
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