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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 5, Return To Teh Dingbat Buffet< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2015,06:36   
When I say questions are aggressive, I am referring to a particular class of question.

"What time is it?" is not aggressive. A research proposal is  not automatically aggressive, although it might be. A thought experiment might be, depending on context. "Why" questions are usually annoying. Rhetorical questions, of course, aren't questions.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.
  
Driver



Posts: 649
Joined: June 2011
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2015,21:22   
Quote (Learned Hand @ Jan. 29 2015,17:25)
My latest and last little exchange at UD got me thinking about the nature of these arguments, and encouraged me to finally blog a piece of my ever-in-progress book:

http://violentmetaphors.com/2015.......ourself

Some people are not worth engaging if the reason is to persuade them.

Most if not all of the regular contributors at UD are in that category. If you are  going to post at UD then you may as well do as KeithS did and expose Barry's hypocrisy. Everyone gets banned in the end. Then comes a brief amnesty.

--------------
Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin
  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2015,06:22   
Quote (Driver @ Jan. 31 2015,03:22)
   
Quote (Learned Hand @ Jan. 29 2015,17:25)
My latest and last little exchange at UD got me thinking about the nature of these arguments, and encouraged me to finally blog a piece of my ever-in-progress book:

http://violentmetaphors.com/2015.......ourself

Some people are not worth engaging if the reason is to persuade them.

Most if not all of the regular contributors at UD are in that category. If you are  going to post at UD then you may as well do as KeithS did and expose Barry's hypocrisy. Everyone gets banned in the end. Then comes a brief amnesty.

Ye Gods man! You've put your finger on it!

UD is a Calvinist parable!

  • One's fate is predestined and known only to The Almighty One.
  • The faults, however great, of The Saved shall not impede their salvation.
  • The faults, however trivial, of The Unsaved assure their damnation.
  • Anyone who points out the contradiction between the first item and the following two is banned Unsaved.
  • A small group of Elect are assured of Divine Approbation. Their status is determined by their faith (most assuredly not by their works!)
  • Divine wrath is the terrible fate that awaits the great majority, even those who profess some approximation of The Truth
  • There is only One True Word. The Elect cannot agree precisely what it is, but know with infinite precision what it is not.
  • There are strong opinions among the Elect as to which version of The Word is to be preferred. These are less important that the imperative to maintain unity against The Enemy.
  • The truth of The Word is both demonstrable and self-evident. It is self-evident that it is demonstrable, and it is unnecessary to demonstratei ts truth because it is self-evident.
  • We live in joyful hope and expectation of the time when The One True Word will prevail and Darwin Satan and his minions are banished. (We are rationally aware that this will never - ever - happen, but we still live in the aforementioned joyful hope etc)
  • The bitching among the Elect for the best parking space beside the preacher's is marvellous to behold.


--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.
   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2015,09:05   
Quote (Amadan @ Jan. 31 2015,06:22)
Quote (Driver @ Jan. 31 2015,03:22)
   
Quote (Learned Hand @ Jan. 29 2015,17:25)
My latest and last little exchange at UD got me thinking about the nature of these arguments, and encouraged me to finally blog a piece of my ever-in-progress book:

http://violentmetaphors.com/2015.......ourself

Some people are not worth engaging if the reason is to persuade them.

Most if not all of the regular contributors at UD are in that category. If you are  going to post at UD then you may as well do as KeithS did and expose Barry's hypocrisy. Everyone gets banned in the end. Then comes a brief amnesty.

Ye Gods man! You've put your finger on it!

UD is a Calvinist parable!

  • One's fate is predestined and known only to The Almighty One.
  • The faults, however great, of The Saved shall not impede their salvation.
  • The faults, however trivial, of The Unsaved assure their damnation.
  • Anyone who points out the contradiction between the first item and the following two is banned Unsaved.
  • A small group of Elect are assured of Divine Approbation. Their status is determined by their faith (most assuredly not by their works!)
  • Divine wrath is the terrible fate that awaits the great majority, even those who profess some approximation of The Truth
  • There is only One True Word. The Elect cannot agree precisely what it is, but know with infinite precision what it is not.
  • There are strong opinions among the Elect as to which version of The Word is to be preferred. These are less important that the imperative to maintain unity against The Enemy.
  • The truth of The Word is both demonstrable and self-evident. It is self-evident that it is demonstrable, and it is unnecessary to demonstratei ts truth because it is self-evident.
  • We live in joyful hope and expectation of the time when The One True Word will prevail and Darwin Satan and his minions are banished. (We are rationally aware that this will never - ever - happen, but we still live in the aforementioned joyful hope etc)
  • The bitching among the Elect for the best parking space beside the preacher's is marvellous to behold.

Thanks a lot Amadan!  You have shown the Man Behind The Curtain - and removed any further need for anyone to post at UD... Unless they are pre-ordained to Fully Embrace The Tard.  

TITO* is more than just the operative word - it's their way of life.

*Tard In=Tard Out

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11
  
Kantian Naturalist



Posts: 72
Joined: Mar. 2013
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2015,09:50   
Quote (Amadan @ Jan. 31 2015,06:22)
UD is a Calvinist parable!

  • One's fate is predestined and known only to The Almighty One.
  • The faults, however great, of The Saved shall not impede their salvation.
  • The faults, however trivial, of The Unsaved assure their damnation.
  • Anyone who points out the contradiction between the first item and the following two is banned Unsaved.
  • A small group of Elect are assured of Divine Approbation. Their status is determined by their faith (most assuredly not by their works!)
  • Divine wrath is the terrible fate that awaits the great majority, even those who profess some approximation of The Truth
  • There is only One True Word. The Elect cannot agree precisely what it is, but know with infinite precision what it is not.
  • There are strong opinions among the Elect as to which version of The Word is to be preferred. These are less important that the imperative to maintain unity against The Enemy.
  • The truth of The Word is both demonstrable and self-evident. It is self-evident that it is demonstrable, and it is unnecessary to demonstratei ts truth because it is self-evident.
  • We live in joyful hope and expectation of the time when The One True Word will prevail and Darwin Satan and his minions are banished. (We are rationally aware that this will never - ever - happen, but we still live in the aforementioned joyful hope etc)
  • The bitching among the Elect for the best parking space beside the preacher's is marvellous to behold.

And just when I was tempted to respond to StephenB's utterly absurd misunderstanding of Kant's epistemology.  Thanks for helping to keep me on the straight and narrow.
  
Driver



Posts: 649
Joined: June 2011
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2015,16:23   
Quote (Amadan @ Jan. 31 2015,11:22)
Quote (Driver @ Jan. 31 2015,03:22)
   
Quote (Learned Hand @ Jan. 29 2015,17:25)
My latest and last little exchange at UD got me thinking about the nature of these arguments, and encouraged me to finally blog a piece of my ever-in-progress book:

http://violentmetaphors.com/2015.......ourself

Some people are not worth engaging if the reason is to persuade them.

Most if not all of the regular contributors at UD are in that category. If you are  going to post at UD then you may as well do as KeithS did and expose Barry's hypocrisy. Everyone gets banned in the end. Then comes a brief amnesty.

Ye Gods man! You've put your finger on it!

UD is a Calvinist parable!

  • One's fate is predestined and known only to The Almighty One.
  • The faults, however great, of The Saved shall not impede their salvation.
  • The faults, however trivial, of The Unsaved assure their damnation.
  • Anyone who points out the contradiction between the first item and the following two is banned Unsaved.
  • A small group of Elect are assured of Divine Approbation. Their status is determined by their faith (most assuredly not by their works!)
  • Divine wrath is the terrible fate that awaits the great majority, even those who profess some approximation of The Truth
  • There is only One True Word. The Elect cannot agree precisely what it is, but know with infinite precision what it is not.
  • There are strong opinions among the Elect as to which version of The Word is to be preferred. These are less important that the imperative to maintain unity against The Enemy.
  • The truth of The Word is both demonstrable and self-evident. It is self-evident that it is demonstrable, and it is unnecessary to demonstratei ts truth because it is self-evident.
  • We live in joyful hope and expectation of the time when The One True Word will prevail and Darwin Satan and his minions are banished. (We are rationally aware that this will never - ever - happen, but we still live in the aforementioned joyful hope etc)
  • The bitching among the Elect for the best parking space beside the preacher's is marvellous to behold.

POTW

--------------
Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin
  
Learned Hand



Posts: 214
Joined: Oct. 2009
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2015,17:01   
<i>Then comes a brief amnesty.</i>

Which corresponds with an uptick in traffic. Let's not forget that UD is a moneymaking venture! BA must balance his ego against his pocketbook; more debate brings more ad money, but also more discussions in which he can't hold his own.
  
Learned Hand



Posts: 214
Joined: Oct. 2009
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2015,17:01   
Fie on the angle bracket.
  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2015,17:39   
[ square bracket ]
  
Learned Hand



Posts: 214
Joined: Oct. 2009
(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2015,17:54   
FIE ON THEM ALL.
  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2015,20:49   
It's died again over there since the bannings. Barry is of course now more vocal, as his intellectual short-comings are less likely to be challenged.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine
  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2015,21:04   
New round of bannings coming up. Barry has baited the hook again.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.
  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2015,22:21   
He baits the hook,  just so he can throw back into the water whatever fish happens to comes up? That sounds counterproductive.
  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2015,22:46   
Barry has started deleting comments and adding his own editorial to others. Surprisingly this behaviour is only directed towards those who have the audacity to disagree with him.

Quote
UD Editors: Graham, no need to expose the poverty of your intellect like this. You can just not post if you’ve got nothing.


And again:
Quote
SNIP
UD Editors: Transparent attempt to derail a thread that obviously makes Petrushka uncomfortable deleted.


And again:
Quote
UD Editors: Until skram and his friends admit that emergence (which is what is described in the quote) is nothing more than materialist mysticism trying to pass itself off as an intellectually respectable scientific account, there is no need to deal with them. Skram, you can run off and comfort yourself with your little stories. Do not expect those who demand plausible accounts to be impressed.


And again:
Quote
UD Editors: Scoffing and scorn are sad and pathetic substitutes for argument. It seems, though, that is mainly what I get from materialists nowadays.


And this in a span of twenty comments, only four of which were critical of Barry's opinion.

How many Commenters critical of ID are still able to comment on UD?
  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2015,23:25   
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Feb. 02 2015,22:46)
Barry has started deleting comments and adding his own editorial to others. Surprisingly this behaviour is only directed towards those who have the audacity to disagree with him.

 
Quote
UD Editors: Graham, no need to expose the poverty of your intellect like this. You can just not post if you’ve got nothing.


And again:
 
Quote
SNIP
UD Editors: Transparent attempt to derail a thread that obviously makes Petrushka uncomfortable deleted.


And again:
 
Quote
UD Editors: Until skram and his friends admit that emergence (which is what is described in the quote) is nothing more than materialist mysticism trying to pass itself off as an intellectually respectable scientific account, there is no need to deal with them. Skram, you can run off and comfort yourself with your little stories. Do not expect those who demand plausible accounts to be impressed.


And again:
 
Quote
UD Editors: Scoffing and scorn are sad and pathetic substitutes for argument. It seems, though, that is mainly what I get from materialists nowadays.


And this in a span of twenty comments, only four of which were critical of Barry's opinion.

How many Commenters critical of ID are still able to comment on UD?

Barry's childish behaviour continues:
Quote
UD Editors: Another attempt to change the subject deleted. Graham, if you’ve got nothing, best to move along.


And the little jerk is proud of it:
Quote
Thank you for at least trying to meet the substance of the OP. I’ve just deleted half a dozen thumb sucking, crybaby comments.


The best defence for his opinion would be to leave the "thumb sucking, crybaby comments" for everyone to judge for themselves. But Barry doesn't trust his ID followers to be "smart" enough to judge these comments and come to the same conclusions that he does.
  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2015,23:33   
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Feb. 02 2015,23:25)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Feb. 02 2015,22:46)
Barry has started deleting comments and adding his own editorial to others. Surprisingly this behaviour is only directed towards those who have the audacity to disagree with him.

   
Quote
UD Editors: Graham, no need to expose the poverty of your intellect like this. You can just not post if you’ve got nothing.


And again:
   
Quote
SNIP
UD Editors: Transparent attempt to derail a thread that obviously makes Petrushka uncomfortable deleted.


And again:
   
Quote
UD Editors: Until skram and his friends admit that emergence (which is what is described in the quote) is nothing more than materialist mysticism trying to pass itself off as an intellectually respectable scientific account, there is no need to deal with them. Skram, you can run off and comfort yourself with your little stories. Do not expect those who demand plausible accounts to be impressed.


And again:
   
Quote
UD Editors: Scoffing and scorn are sad and pathetic substitutes for argument. It seems, though, that is mainly what I get from materialists nowadays.


And this in a span of twenty comments, only four of which were critical of Barry's opinion.

How many Commenters critical of ID are still able to comment on UD?

Barry's childish behaviour continues:
 
Quote
UD Editors: Another attempt to change the subject deleted. Graham, if you’ve got nothing, best to move along.


And the little jerk is proud of it:
 
Quote
Thank you for at least trying to meet the substance of the OP. I’ve just deleted half a dozen thumb sucking, crybaby comments.


The best defence for his opinion would be to leave the "thumb sucking, crybaby comments" for everyone to judge for themselves. But Barry doesn't trust his ID followers to be "smart" enough to judge these comments and come to the same conclusions that he does.

And again:
Quote
Radioaction: So you delete our off-topic posts, but Ba77′s off-topic posts are just fine huh?

UD Editors: No, I delete thumb sucking crybaby posts. If you don’t like our editorial policy, you are welcome to start your own blog. I have never yet seen BA77 whine like the average materialist does on these pages. Moreover, BA77′s posts are not off topic, and the fact that you think they are means you don’t really understand what the topic is.


It almost makes me sad that I have been banned. I would love to get banned again by responding to this bloated, pompous, arrogant, snob.
  
socle



Posts: 322
Joined: July 2009
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2015,23:42   
From Barry's perspective:

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2015,01:42   
The topic at UD is, and always was, Jesus.
  
Kantian Naturalist



Posts: 72
Joined: Mar. 2013
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2015,06:46   
Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 03 2015,01:42)
The topic at UD is, and always was, Jesus.

Which is why is logically impossible for anything that bornagain77 posts to ever be "off-topic".  There is only one topic, and they are always on it, whether it's bornagain77's weird rants about non-localism in quantum mechanics and near-death experiences, Kairosofocus's continual re-quoting of Plato and Lewontin, or Arrington's when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife "questions" to "materialists".
  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 659
Joined: Jan. 2012
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2015,07:20   
Heh. BA77 himself thinks his posts are OT!

I think BA (the other one) has maybe generated enough extra clicks to refill the coffers a bit now, so he can give vent to his quite ludicrous ego (whiny cry-baby? You're playing that card?).

He's not totally dumb.

--------------
SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington
  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2015,07:39   
Anyone recall what petrushka said that warrented a visit from ceiling voice?

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.
  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2015,08:55   
"Plausible accounts" like, for example, "POOF!"?

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G
  
Learned Hand



Posts: 214
Joined: Oct. 2009
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2015,21:57   
Barry Arrington 2012:
Quote
Why is Barry Arrington Stifling Dissent at UD? If you visit some of our more vociferous opponents’ websites that is the question being asked. The answer, of course, is that I am not stifling rational argument on this site. In fact, just the opposite is true; my purpose has been to weed out those who refuse to engage in rational argument so that rational argument can be pursued by those who remain. . . .

Anyone is free to come onto this site and, abiding the rules of rational debate, engage in rational debate. We will not, however, tolerate those who refuse to abide by the rules of rational debate any more than we would get into a boxing ring with someone who announces in advance that they do not feel bound by the rule against hitting below the belt.


Barry Arrington 2014:
Quote
At any rate, if you are going to deny a self evident moral truth, there is no use arguing with you. By definition self evident truths cannot be demonstrated. And when you lie, as you have here, and say a self evident truth is false the discussion must necessarily come to an end.


The 2012 quote was in the context of imposing relatively arbitrary "rules of thought." I can't imagine what kind of "rational debate" includes principles such as, "self-evident truths cannot be demonstrated." But it also apparently includes a rule defining "self-evident truths" in a characteristically lazy, arrogant, sloppy way. Arrington is claiming not only that his moral inclinations are self-evidently objectively correct, he's claiming that his understanding of Mark Frank's opinions is also self-evidently correct. Even when Mark Frank contests that understanding.

(And, of course, this implies that of all the people in the world--the vast majority of whom would purport disagree with Arrington on one moral question or another--only he is openly acknowledging the One True Moral Code. Arrington is The One. So is Stephen B., though; I wonder if they agree on the objective, self-evident nature of the pope's spiritual authority?)

The new flavor of Uncommon Descent is a heady brew of sloth and pride, with crunchy little nuggets of wrath for texture. Due credit to Stephen and WJM for at least being willing to have a conversation rather than just blowing angry raspberries.
  
Seversky



Posts: 442
Joined: June 2010
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2015,23:10   
It looks like they have decided to have an early Spring clean at UD. Swept out most of the pesky materialists and atheists which infested the place.  Kept on two or three of the more tame to observe and amuse themselves with but otherwise they're now stretching out, scratching, relaxing, indulging in a little chest-beating and generally feeling good about having reclaimed their little abode from all the riff-raff that got in.  

Any guesses on how long it'll be before the place starts dying on its feet again?
  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2015,01:30   
My confirmation of Arrington's claim from the ceiling that  BA77′s posts were indeed not off topic disappeared. Maybe I should have not included the "especially, when they end with verse and chorus" part.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -
   
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2015,03:49   
Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 03 2015,09:42)
The topic at UD is, and always was, Jesus.

Almost on the money. It's actually just a bunch of denialism with each taking turns playing god.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin
  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2015,04:29   


--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27
   
Learned Hand



Posts: 214
Joined: Oct. 2009
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2015,07:37   
Mark Frank says, My opinion has been shared by many people including some the world’s most famous philosophers at least since Hume. Were they all lying? A worldwide movement in multiple languages over hundred years all perpetrating this falsehood knowing full well it was wrong. Or I am special in knowing it was false while the others were just misled?

Isn't that entailed by BA's position? He knows what's right and what's wrong by perceiving the self-evident truth of the matter. He's not so arrogant as to claim that he's uniquely able to see these truths, so he has to take the position that we can all perceive the same truths. But since the vast majority of humanity has disagreed with him over the ages on one question or another, the implication is that he is nearly uniquely in having the strength of character to acknowledge those self-evident moral truths.

You know, the ones that just happen to match his cultural background.

I'm kind of enjoying this tour of BA's personality.

(I'd have added this to TSZ, but I think I'm getting caught in the spam filter again.)
  
Learned Hand



Posts: 214
Joined: Oct. 2009
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2015,08:10   
Oh, Kairosfocus. I love you. You are so furious and intent on your own inner world, and utterly oblivious to how to disconnected that world is from the rest of humanity. God only knows what you could accomplish if you ever learned to communicate effectively.

KF said:

Quote
Now, watch the self-referential incoherence emerge:


Followed by a long reference to himself.
  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007
(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2015,08:14   
Quote (Learned Hand @ Feb. 04 2015,16:10)
Oh, Kairosfocus. I love you. You are so furious and intent on your own inner world, and utterly oblivious to how to disconnected that world is from the rest of humanity. God only knows what you could accomplish if you ever learned to communicate effectively.

KF said:

 
Quote
Now, watch the self-referential incoherence emerge:


Followed by a long reference to himself.

That guy would stink out hell if he farted.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin
  
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