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Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,12:39    I'll admit that my definition of Christian is not at all mainstream, but here it is: One who understands and finds grounding in the history and culture of the Jewish faith and people at the time a rabbi by the name of Yeshua bin Yoseph showed up and why some began to preach a different message about the Law according to the Torah. -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,12:46    Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,17:04) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,10:42)   Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,15:49)     Quote (Quack @ Sep. 15 2009,05:26) What company this man kept: The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' Let's see...Louis, Arden, Carlson and 'Ras, respectively? Interesting. They've been around longer than I thought! I bet they were also from the People's Front of Judea, the bastards. Whoa whoa whoa WHOA! *I'm* not the drunkard? Your information is grossly wrong. Wrong enough to border on libel, damn you! I shall not take such defamation lying down*, my Second will call upon you shortly. God's blood, such calumny cannot be easily borne etc. Louis *Unlike, I understand, all your male and female relatives and acquaintances, who take many things lying down with a willingness that skirts close to obscenity. You misread. Jesus is the one being labeled as a glutton and drunkard. I assume you are not claiming to be Jesus--so the passage makes no statement regarding your degree  of inebriation--so your outrage is misplaced. It says taxpayers and sinners are claimed to be among his friends. In a Venn diagram sense, "taxpayers and sinners" is similar to "wombats and animals" but never the mind. Don't blame me, this is Deadman's mess. ;-) Louis P.S. I am not Jesus. I checked. Who knew that all along it was actually *ME* who had the direct access to god and all the absolutely 100% correct religious views etc. Lenny will be so pleased. My pizza boy positively worships me, but he's a bit weird so don't take that too seriously. P.P.S. I am only counted among the living up until about 8pm on a Friday night. At about 12pm Saturday I am definitely one of the dead. Sunday is spent in limbo. If Jesus El Saviour Chryst is going to judge me at the weekend please can he do so quietly and with alka seltzer or a spare liver. *Disclaimer: Exaggeration of drinking frequency and general alcholism may have occurred during the making of this post. Actual drinking may not match that shown on the packaging, which is merely a depiction of a drinking suggestion. Anything that Steve Elliot says about me getting him wasted a couple of years ago is almost certainly a lie. Honest.* -------------- Bye.

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,13:33    This is, like, the. worst. debate. ever. Not nearly as exciting as Richard Hughes debating Tina Yothers on whether "Gauss' Law" is an acceptable alternative to "Gauss's Law". -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,13:37    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,12:46) Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,17:04)   Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,10:42)     Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,15:49)       Quote (Quack @ Sep. 15 2009,05:26) What company this man kept: The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' Let's see...Louis, Arden, Carlson and 'Ras, respectively? Interesting. They've been around longer than I thought! I bet they were also from the People's Front of Judea, the bastards. Whoa whoa whoa WHOA! *I'm* not the drunkard? Your information is grossly wrong. Wrong enough to border on libel, damn you! I shall not take such defamation lying down*, my Second will call upon you shortly. God's blood, such calumny cannot be easily borne etc. Louis *Unlike, I understand, all your male and female relatives and acquaintances, who take many things lying down with a willingness that skirts close to obscenity. You misread. Jesus is the one being labeled as a glutton and drunkard. I assume you are not claiming to be Jesus--so the passage makes no statement regarding your degree  of inebriation--so your outrage is misplaced. It says taxpayers and sinners are claimed to be among his friends. In a Venn diagram sense, "taxpayers and sinners" is similar to "wombats and animals" but never the mind. Don't blame me, this is Deadman's mess. ;-) Louis ONLOOKERS! Once again, notice how the sweet waters of reason have been befouled by Louis poisoning the well. He then gathers the red herrings that float up, to squeeze out  the oil of ad hominem with which he doused a strawman and set it alight, clouding the air with choking black smoke meant to obscure, distract and cause chaos and panic in a hyperbolic, hysterical assault on YOUR senses, dear reader. Who will you trust? Me, a pious, holy man who has -- Lo, these many years used your tithings to feed thousands of starving crippled orphans -- Or Louis, a troublemaking heathen evildoer and known philatelist?? The choice is clear! Follow your conscience and that loving God that has sent me to guide you. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Stanton Posts: 266 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,13:42    Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,11:04) You misread. Jesus is the one being labeled as a glutton and drunkard. I assume you are not claiming to be Jesus--so the passage makes no statement regarding your degree  of inebriation--so your outrage is misplaced. Are you sure that they aren't arguing over being like Jesus, rather than arguing over being Jesus?

Stanton Posts: 266 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,13:49    Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,13:33) This is, like, the. worst. debate. ever. Not nearly as exciting as Richard Hughes debating Tina Yothers on whether "Gauss' Law" is an acceptable alternative to "Gauss's Law". This is not the worst debate ever:  The worst debate ever was the time this one guy attempted to convince me that the Bible was right because 1) no one could have ever survived an explosion as big as the Big Bang, and 2) recent scientific discoveries (which the gentleman never bothered to specify) were proving the accuracy of the Bible left and right. Either that, or when this other guy told me that God was going to send me to Hell to suffer for all eternity because I apparently didn't think like him, or because I offered to tutor him when he was whining about how hard the Biology professor was.

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,13:52    Quote (Stanton @ Sep. 15 2009,13:42)     Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,11:04) You misread. Jesus is the one being labeled as a glutton and drunkard. I assume you are not claiming to be Jesus--so the passage makes no statement regarding your degree  of inebriation--so your outrage is misplaced. Are you sure that they aren't arguing over being like Jesus, rather than arguing over being Jesus? They can not be arguing over being like Jesus; at most they argue over being like what Jesus was accused of being, er, like, which is, like, altogether different. That is, while there is ample evidence that Jesus enjoyed a good meal and a glass of wine, as did Calvin and Luther, there is no evidence that he was, in fact, a glutton  and/or a drunkard. With Luther--well let's not go there. -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,14:09    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,19:37) [SNIP] ...known philatelist?? [SNIP] Those photos of what I was doing with those stamps were doctored. It's a lie I tell you. Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury I ask you, is this the face of a stampophile? Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,14:11    Wait. We're having an awful debate and you are the ones discussing the semantics of a deliberately and obviously frivolous exchange of mild abuse? Mr Kettle should meet Mr Pot methinks. Louis -------------- Bye.

Tony M Nyphot Posts: 491 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,15:29    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,13:09)   Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,19:37) [SNIP] ...known philatelist?? [SNIP] Those photos of what I was doing with those stamps were doctored. It's a lie I tell you. Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury I ask you, is this the face of a stampophile? Louis -------------- "I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK "You could always wrap fresh fish in the paper you publish it on, though, and sell that." - Field Man on how to find value in Gary Gaulin's real-science "theory"

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,15:40    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,14:11) Wait. We're having an awful debate and you are the ones discussing the semantics of a deliberately and obviously frivolous exchange of mild abuse? Mr Kettle should meet Mr Pot methinks. Louis Leave Heddle alone. It's not his fault he hates America so much that he drives a Honda. Then he said English people smell like feet. P.S. No need to thank me, Heddle. Louis shocked me by claiming American physicists since Feynman are all stupid weenies. His words exactly. He also belongs to the People's Front of Judea, you know. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,16:06    deadman_932 Quote Leave Heddle alone. It's not his fault he hates America so much that he drives a Honda Whoa—I’m a super patriot. Me and Mrs. Calvinist each have a Honda, and Hondas are made in Ohio and Alabama. Thus we support the Great American Worker, not the capitalist pig-dogs who own the U.S. Car Companies (or is that the government?)  Now, yes, Fords are made in the US—but way up there in the Maple Leaf State (Canada), and I do not consider Canadians real Americans, because if they were there would be a top-tier NASCAR race in that state.  And Chevy’s, if they are still made at all, are made in Mexico or some other net importer to the U.S. (which doesn’t narrow it down much.) So don’t question my patriotism! Just go ahead and lay your hands on this Pittsburgh Steelers fan! -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,16:26    Quote Keep it Clean! I just love you guys how clean you keep it as long as no creationist rears his head to stir you up and arouse the kind hearts and loveliness you hide so well... -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,16:27    Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,16:06) deadman_932   Quote Leave Heddle alone. It's not his fault he hates America so much that he drives a Honda Whoa—I’m a super patriot. Me and Mrs. Calvinist each have a Honda, and Hondas are made in Ohio and Alabama. Thus we support the Great American Worker, not the capitalist pig-dogs who own the U.S. Car Companies (or is that the government?)  Now, yes, Fords are made in the US—but way up there in the Maple Leaf State (Canada), and I do not consider Canadians real Americans, because if they were there would be a top-tier NASCAR race in that state.  And Chevy’s, if they are still made at all, are made in Mexico or some other net importer to the U.S. (which doesn’t narrow it down much.) So don’t question my patriotism! Just go ahead and lay your hands on this Pittsburgh Steelers fan! American cars are shoite, though. I have a ickle soft spot for the old GT-40s, but that's about it. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,17:05    Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,14:06) Just go ahead and lay your hands on this Pittsburgh Steelers fan! I think this went to the wrong forum, Heddle.  This is ATBC.  Sara Palin doesn't post here. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,17:08    Quote (JohnW @ Sep. 15 2009,17:05) Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,14:06) Just go ahead and lay your hands on this Pittsburgh Steelers fan! I think this went to the wrong forum, Heddle.  This is ATBC.  Sara Palin doesn't post here. But she might. I'm waiting. Once, on TV, she winked at me! -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,17:14    Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 15 2009,16:27) Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,16:06) deadman_932     Quote Leave Heddle alone. It's not his fault he hates America so much that he drives a Honda Whoa—I’m a super patriot. Me and Mrs. Calvinist each have a Honda, and Hondas are made in Ohio and Alabama. Thus we support the Great American Worker, not the capitalist pig-dogs who own the U.S. Car Companies (or is that the government?)  Now, yes, Fords are made in the US—but way up there in the Maple Leaf State (Canada), and I do not consider Canadians real Americans, because if they were there would be a top-tier NASCAR race in that state.  And Chevy’s, if they are still made at all, are made in Mexico or some other net importer to the U.S. (which doesn’t narrow it down much.) So don’t question my patriotism! Just go ahead and lay your hands on this Pittsburgh Steelers fan! American cars are shoite, though. I have a ickle soft spot for the old GT-40s, but that's about it. And I have a soft spot for the old cars of the English. Of course it has to be the old cars since they don't make any new cars. Who owns Jaguar? who owns Land Rover? India? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Chad? Disgraceful! -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

someotherguy Posts: 398 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,17:56    Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,17:08) Quote (JohnW @ Sep. 15 2009,17:05)   Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,14:06) Just go ahead and lay your hands on this Pittsburgh Steelers fan! I think this went to the wrong forum, Heddle.  This is ATBC.  Sara Palin doesn't post here. But she might. I'm waiting. Once, on TV, she winked at me! I'm experiencing starbusts just at the thought of it! -------------- Evolander in training

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,18:16    Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,23:14) [SNIP] And I have a soft spot for the old cars of the English. Of course it has to be the old cars since they don't make any new cars. Who owns Jaguar? who owns Land Rover? India? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Chad? Disgraceful! Morgan? Noble? Louis P.S. I would have said Lotus and TVR in years gone by, but alas, no more. Either way, our manufacturing economy has been thoroughly buggered. -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,18:18    Quote (Quack @ Sep. 15 2009,22:26) Quote Keep it Clean! I just love you guys how clean you keep it as long as no creationist rears his head to stir you up and arouse the kind hearts and loveliness you hide so well... Thank you....wait....you take that back! ;-) Louis -------------- Bye.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,18:26    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,12:46) Anything that Steve Elliot says about me getting him wasted a couple of years ago is almost certainly a lie. Honest.* Agreed! You did not get me wasted. The tequila did that. All you did was to buy a few doubles and persuade this idiot to drink them. F-Kin chemists!

nmgirl Posts: 92 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,18:51    Hey, I logged in here for FL's great debate.  Where is his indisputible proof that christianity and evilution are incompatible.  Enquiring minds want to know!

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,19:07    Quote (nmgirl @ Sep. 15 2009,18:51) Hey, I logged in here for FL's great debate.  Where is his indisputible proof that christianity and evilution are incompatible.  Enquiring minds want to know! Welcome nmgirl   You will never see a great debate here between creationism and science. Creationists tend to be too scared to post outside of a rigorously moderated site. Not all, just most.

Stanton Posts: 266 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,20:15    Quote (nmgirl @ Sep. 15 2009,18:51) Hey, I logged in here for FL's great debate.  Where is his indisputible proof that christianity and evilution are incompatible.  Enquiring minds want to know! Cthullhu will awaken, have itself a glass of warm something or other, then go back to sleep, or worse yet, Carol Burnett will finally admit she isn't a natural redhead before FL will actually produce evidence for the incompatibility between Christianity and evilution.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,20:38    Quote Hey, I logged in here for FL's great debate.  Where is his indisputible proof that christianity and evilution are incompatible.  Enquiring minds want to know! Don't worry about it. Once somebody points out that Christianity includes a huge number of sects with widely divergent opinions on the details, and that proving that one of those sects is inconsistent with something doesn't prove it for the rest of them, the debate is pretty much over at that point. Henry

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,21:42    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Sep. 15 2009,18:26) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,12:46) Anything that Steve Elliot says about me getting him wasted a couple of years ago is almost certainly a lie. Honest.* Agreed! You did not get me wasted. The tequila did that. All you did was to buy a few doubles and persuade this idiot to drink them. F-Kin chemists! One word, Steve: "roofies." NEVER trust a chemist -- preverts to a man. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Keelyn Posts: 40 Joined: Feb. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,22:57    Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 15 2009,21:38) Quote Hey, I logged in here for FL's great debate.  Where is his indisputible proof that christianity and evilution are incompatible.  Enquiring minds want to know! Don't worry about it. Once somebody points out that Christianity includes a huge number of sects with widely divergent opinions on the details, and that proving that one of those sects is inconsistent with something doesn't prove it for the rest of them, the debate is pretty much over at that point. Henry You are being reasonable, Henry. I don't think reason is enough to stop FL. -------------- This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. -- Mark Twain

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,23:39    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,22:42) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Sep. 15 2009,18:26)   Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,12:46) Anything that Steve Elliot says about me getting him wasted a couple of years ago is almost certainly a lie. Honest.* Agreed! You did not get me wasted. The tequila did that. All you did was to buy a few doubles and persuade this idiot to drink them. F-Kin chemists! One word, Steve: "roofies." NEVER trust a chemist -- preverts to a man. yeah if loose can't be perverted to a man he'll be perverted to a goat or a shop vac. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,23:45    ONLOOKERS. 1. HEDDLE:=> HAR HAR THIS IS YOUR 'CAR'. USA! USA! 2. HEDDLE: => all together now: Oh you'll never get to heaven (Oh you'll never get to heaven) In Heddle's car (In Heddle's car) 'cause Heddle's car ('cause Heddle's car) Wont go that far. (Wont go that far.) Happy-clappy Christians, take note. 'my god is an awesome god' is the worst song ever. If I was god, I obviously wouldn't have a hell, because RichardTHughes *is* love, but for folks that make shoite songs like that about me there would be something unsavoury, like a menage a trios with Tarden and Carlson. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 16 2009,00:52    sigh cover that space on the bingo card. Quote Tard Most importantly, as we've already seen, people ARE slipping through the cracks, losing their faith because evolution is incompatible with Christianity---and if you lose your Christian faith, if like Darwin you can't even believe in Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the Cross anymore, what will happen to you after you die??? So, we must needs continue examining this issue.  Too much at stake, honestly.  After all, you and I can't hide behind Asa Gray's skirts on Judgment Day! compare that with   Quote Tard Oh no no, don't get me wrong dude.  I didn't come here to save anybody.  You wanna be Old Scratch's next piece of Pitchfork Shish-Ka-Bobbed Rump-Roast, I'm not gonna git in your way at all! Shoot, if savin' you guys were my intention up in here, I'd be all polite and circumspect in my choice of words within this peanut thread.  Heh!   Silly Tard.   what makes your "religious beliefs"... ah fuck it. Floyd Lee is the Herbert Kornfeld of IDC. and any grown up not in a period costume at a civil war reenactment has no business saying "Old Scratch".  you give Poe a bad name -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

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