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MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,09:30   

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18061154/site/newsweek/

Intersting article

“Does Carbon-14 disprove the Bible?” The answer: “When a scientist’s interpretation of data does not match the clear meaning of the text in the Bible, we should never reinterpret the Bible. God knows just what he meant to say, and His understanding of science is infallible, whereas ours is fallible.”

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If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,09:42   

Sources say that Eugenie has visited the museum with BBC reporters.  LOL, lordy, that had to be an interesting visit... :O

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,10:08   

*sigh*

If only the men who wrote it could see the long term implications of their book.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,14:23   



Adam and Eve and family go for a drive.  I'm saying this has to be pre-snake, right FTK?

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,15:00   

ROTL...

Nope, that's definitely post-snake.  See those cave kiddo’s in the car?  Dead give away, buddy.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,15:27   

Quote (Ftk @ April 12 2007,15:00)
ROTL...

Nope, that's definitely post-snake.  See those cave kiddo’s in the car?  Dead give away, buddy.

Ah, equating Sin and Sex. Classic.

Remind me why could sperm and egg not fuse before the fall?

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,15:38   

Well, they could, but Adam didn't know where to stick his wee wee.

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The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,15:48   

Quote
Ah, equating Sin and Sex. Classic.


Are you for real, or is that suppose to be a joke?

Go back and take a stab at those first few chapters of Genesis.  The "snake" crawled down that apple tree at the very beginning of the account of man.  

Munchins aren't mentioned until after they had been thrown out of the garden.  

And, btw, sin and sex should never be used in the same sentence.  Nothin' sinful about sex unless you're misusing the function and hurting others by your actions.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,15:52   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ April 12 2007,16:27)
 
Quote (Ftk @ April 12 2007,15:00)
ROTL...

Nope, that's definitely post-snake.  See those cave kiddo’s in the car?  Dead give away, buddy.

Ah, equating Sin and Sex. Classic.

Remind me why could sperm and egg not fuse before the fall?

There is an old saying that if the only tool you have is a hammer, all of your problems look like nails. This describes you, oldman.  You assume, as a scientist, that every question has a scientific answer. In this case you are wrong, wrong, wrong.  This is not a matter of science, but of history.

Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit in Genesis 3:6, while the first bambino didn't come along until Genesis 4:1.  You should also consider that, friendly dinosaur aside, the presence of clothing is a dead giveaway that this picture is post serpent.  QED

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,15:58   

Ding, ding, ding....we have a winner!!!

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,16:05   

Quote
Are you for real, or is that suppose to be a joke?

Heh. Did I misunderstand something that seems obvious to you? Some tricky point of causality? Was there even time as we understand it in the Garden of Eden?
 
Quote
Munchins aren't mentioned until after they had been thrown out of the garden.  

And that answers my question about sperm and egg how? "God wanted it that way". I guess you believe in the literal reading then? If so, do you also believe Noah had all species on his Ark (or Kinds even)?
 
Quote
And, btw, sin and sex should never be used in the same sentence.  Nothin' sinful about sex unless you're misusing the function and hurting others by your actions.

IMHO I think you'll find that a large part of christianity and religion in general is about making people feel bad (i.e like they've commited a sin) when doing things that come naturally. So then can confess. And throw a few $$ in the collection plate on their way out as "thanks".  A vicious circle.

A question then, as you are in the mood for answering them it appears, FTK, is there nothing sinfull about homesexual sex or do you condone that 100%? You are fine with the whole gay thing I take it? That's not a misuse of god-given function or anything right there?[I][/I]

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,16:16   

Quote
IMHO I think you'll find that a large part of christianity and religion in general is about making people feel bad (i.e like they've commited a sin) when doing things that come naturally.


Um...you evidently must not know many Christians.  I assure you that sex is something I engage in frequently, and I certainly don't feel like I've commited a "sin" afterward.  

In fact, biblically, one of the very first things God told Adam and Eve was to get it on....a lot.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,16:17   

Quote (Ftk @ April 12 2007,16:16)
 
Quote
IMHO I think you'll find that a large part of christianity and religion in general is about making people feel bad (i.e like they've commited a sin) when doing things that come naturally.


Um...you evidently must not know many Christians.  I assure you that sex is something I engage in frequently, and I certainly don't feel like I've commited a "sin" afterward.  

In fact, biblically, one of the very first things God told Adam and Eve was to get it on....a lot.

And you are 100% fine with homosexual's getting married etc? The whole gay thing? I seem to remember God having somewhat of a harsh opinion on all that.
EDIT: And sex outside marriage was what I was refering to, amongst other things, with the Sex/Sin reference. I presume you are married ForTheKids.

EDITEDIT: To clarify. Sex inside marriage (presuming you are in fact married) is presumably not defined as a sin by whatever splinter sect you are in. Therefore you do not feel sinful "getting it on". Which totally misses the point I was making. That religion, particularly Christianity, defines many  things as sinful (e.g sex outside marriage) when it's quite good odds that it's going to happen anyway. Very handy I'd say.
So 100% happy with married homosexual folk getting married FTK? Does that cancel out the sin of sex outside marriage I wonder? Hmm...One for the theologians that.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,16:50   

Quote
Um...you evidently must not know many Christians


Statistically unlikely.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,18:39   

Quote
That religion, particularly Christianity, defines many things as sinful (e.g sex outside marriage) when it's quite good odds that it's going to happen anyway. Very handy I'd say.


Hmmm...let’s put on our thinking caps and give this a go, shall we?

Let’s consider the pro’s and con’s of having sex before marriage...

Pro - It feels really, really, really, really good.  

Con - STD’s, unwanted pregnancy, problems with multiple partners, such as: doing it with so many people that it’s difficult to be content in a monogamous relationship (which leads to the breakup of families).  Feelings of being used if one person is in it for fun and the other has deeper feelings.  Feelings of jealousy when your prior partner is now getting it on with someone else because she’s done with you.  The list goes on and on in regard to our emotions.  

Now, according to the Bible, that crazy make believe dude in the sky has made up all these horrible rules to live by.  Darn - such a party pooper he is.  

Now, could these suggestions from the guy in the sky actually be of some use?  If she/he/ET actually did design the human body, chances are he/she/it might actually know a little about the best way for that body to conduct itself without getting hurt.  Hence we are provided with suggestions, rules, or whatever you are comfortable calling them.  

King David was a favorite of the big guy, though David had many wives.  If you’re familiar with biblical history, you’ll find that David’s love life, and his children’s lives, were a mess.  Check out the squabbles between Abraham’s wife and his concubine as well.  God didn’t turn his back on them because of their error in judgment, but they did suffer due to the fact that people were designed for one man, one woman relationships.  

Granted, hormones rage and odds are pretty darn high that most won’t make it down the isle with their virginity in tact, but because we are all better off waiting for that mate for life, we should try to make it a goal to live by those dratted rules.  Pretty much just makes life easier for us in the long run.

     
Quote
So 100% happy with married homosexual folk getting married FTK? Does that cancel out the sin of sex outside marriage I wonder? Hmm...One for the theologians that.


There’s not a chance in #### that I’m going down this road again.  Been there, done that.  Brace yourself, it’s 26 pages long.  And, if you decide to quote mine me, you better be darn sure you’ve read all 26 pages or it might come back to bite you.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,18:45   

Quote
Con - STD’s, unwanted pregnancy

I'd like to introduce you to somebody:


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"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,18:51   

LOL, he's pretty cute, but personally, I seriously hate those things.

Anyway, as you can probably guess by the number of abortions taking place throughout the world, birth control isn't all it's cracked up to be.  

Now, don't give me the song and dance about people not using birth control because of their religious beliefs.  Sex ed has been taught and supported in the public & private schools for eons.  Problem is, that in the heat of the moment, shit happens.  So, unless we shoot all our girls up with birth control early on, we're screwed (and knocked up quite frequently).

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,19:11   

Why are we even talking about birth control in this context when, according to the reporter from Esquire (lionized in my story), Adam at the Creation Museum has no snakee, no T-Rex, no mini-Adam.  :(

Ya know, that just weirds me out. :O

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,19:20   

FtK wrote:
 
Quote
Now, according to the Bible, that crazy make believe dude in the sky has made up all these horrible rules to live by.


Interesting. Can you point to the passage in the Bible where the crazy make believe dude in the sky rules specifically against premarital sex? Or defines marriage?

Or is it possible that these rules were made up by the folks who wrote the Bible, ignoring the rules made up by other sky-dudes for other cultures?

Alternatively, if you'd rather not justify this statement, you could answer the questions Zach and I left for you yesterday on your blog.

thanks in advance

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,19:28   

Quote
Now, don't give me the song and dance about people not using birth control because of their religious beliefs.  Sex ed has been taught and supported in the public & private schools for eons.  Problem is, that in the heat of the moment, shit happens.  So, unless we shoot all our girls up with birth control early on, we're screwed (and knocked up quite frequently).

Not a bad idea. But they have pills now. I think they call it, "The Pill."

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"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,22:22   

Quote
Not a bad idea. But they have pills now. I think they call it, "The Pill."


Dude, my sister is a social worker.  I can tell you that those little girls having sex with whoever is nice to them are not very good about remembering to take that pill each morning.  It is much safer to give them the shot that lasts for about 3 months.

Just fyi.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,22:25   

Quote (Ftk @ April 12 2007,22:22)
Quote
Not a bad idea. But they have pills now. I think they call it, "The Pill."


Dude, my sister is a social worker.  I can tell you that those little girls having sex with whoever is nice to them are not very good about remembering to take that pill each morning.  It is much safer to give them the shot that lasts for about 3 months.

Just fyi.

It is, of course, the foaming fundies who are opposed to contraception and sex education . . . right?

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,22:29   

Not before marriage - but then it's "the best ever!"

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,22:41   

Quote
Interesting. Can you point to the passage in the Bible where the crazy make believe dude in the sky rules specifically against premarital sex? Or defines marriage?


Interestingly enough, I've never found any specific verses about premarital sex, that's why I engaged in lot of it.  JUST KIDDING!

But seriously, right from the very beginning the big guy points out the relationship between man and women.   We also have a big 'ol commandment about not commiting adultry, along with other guidelines for sexual conduct in the law.  

There are stories galore giving examples of the crap that follows when biblical patriarchs blew it and were constantly getting a little on the side.  Monogomy is the ticket to a happy healthy sex life, IMHO. :)  

Premarital sex - don't know what to tell ya.  But, I do know that one man/one woman for life seems to be the best option when considering all the pros and cons.

But, then what do I know...I'm actually guillible enough to believe in God <gasp!>.

         
Quote
Alternatively, if you'd rather not justify this statement, you could answer the questions Zach and I left for you yesterday on your blog.


Patience--I just posted my response to Jeremy.  You're next.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2007,22:51   

Quote
It is, of course, the foaming fundies who are opposed to contraception and sex education . . . right?


I know those types exist, but I don't know any of them personally.  Most parents don't want their children to end up dead, and with the STD's we've got floating around these days, you'd have to be a complete moron not to advise your kids of all the options.

But, that doesn't mean I believe it's advisable to hand out colored condoms like candy and tell them to have at it.  That's a good way to destroy something that is very special.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2007,03:03   

Quote (Ftk @ April 12 2007,18:39)
There’s not a chance in #### that I’m going down this road again.  Been there, done that.  Brace yourself, it’s 26 pages long.  And, if you decide to quote mine me, you better be darn sure you’ve read all 26 pages or it might come back to bite you.

I'll take that as a no to "Are homosexual relationships ok?" then.

Bigot. You disgust me.

I'll go and read your 26 page thread, and IF I feel my label is wrong, I will apologise. After all, you could have just said "it's ok" instead of linking me to a dicussion. It's a YES/NO answer you know. And as you did not just say yes...

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2007,03:08   

Quote (Ftk @ April 12 2007,22:22)
Quote
Not a bad idea. But they have pills now. I think they call it, "The Pill."


Dude, my sister is a social worker.  I can tell you that those little girls having sex with whoever is nice to them are not very good about remembering to take that pill each morning.  It is much safer to give them the shot that lasts for about 3 months.

Just fyi.

Sounds to me like you are promoting eugenics. I take it that you would not advocate the 3 month pill injection for good little Christian girls then? After all, why would they need it, they are saving themselves for marriage.

And something tells me you are a W supporter. Happy for AID prevention programs to be stopped from handing out condoms and being forced to promote absitnace?

Anyway, why am I wasting any more time on you, as per my last post your sand has just run out for me.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2007,07:30   

I'm not promoting anything.  I'm telling you that birth control doesn't always work.  I'm also telling you that in our society today abstinence is unfortunately laughed at.  So, we have kids doing things that are counter productive to a happy healthy life.  

I suggest promoting abstinence ALONG with education about birth control for those who have no self control whatsoever, or those who are out to get laid regardless of the consequences.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2007,08:09   

Quote (Ftk @ April 13 2007,07:30)
I'm not promoting anything.  I'm telling you that birth control doesn't always work.  I'm also telling you that in our society today abstinence is unfortunately laughed at.  So, we have kids doing things that are counter productive to a happy healthy life.  

I suggesting promoting abstinence ALONG with education about birth control for those who have no self control whatsoever, or those who are out to get laid regardless of the consequences.

 
Quote
I'm not promoting anything.  I'm telling you that birth control doesn't always work.  

No, but you are happy for it to be promoted in your name.
If birth control does not alway work (99% effective if used correctly) then how often does abstinence work? And it's not 100% I assure you.
Take 2 groups of "kids". Give one education about birth control, condoms etc. Give the other religious education, why it's a sin to have sex before marriage and promote abstinence in general.

Which do you think would have less pregnancies?

And anyway the point is that the government you support promotes abstinence over practical sex education which as a direct consequence tens of thousands of people have died. But that's ok, as at least they did not die sinners! Died from AIDS with no drug support maybe but at least they went to heaven!
 
Quote
I'm also telling you that in our society today abstinence is unfortunately laughed at.

So, get real then and stop trying to promote abstinence as *any* kind of solution to the problems you see.
 
Quote
So, we have kids doing things that are counter productive to a happy healthy life.  

In *your* opinion. And *your* opinion seems to be that sex before marriage is one of the things that are "counter productive to a happy healthy life". Don't conflate the issue with unwanted pregnancy, AIDs etc. Sure, those are bad things, of course. But to say that sex per se is "counter productive to a happy healthy life" is just plain wrong. And that is what you are saying. Only sex in marriage between a man and a woman is not sinful, right? That's your position.
 
Quote
I suggesting promoting abstinence ALONG with education about birth control for those who have no self control whatsoever, or those who are out to get laid regardless of the consequences.

Yep, lets tell all those forced sex workers in India about abstinence and how it can help them avoid AIDS. Sure.
And these people "who have no self control whatsoever" or "sinners" to put it another way, if they've never been educated about Sex then how can you expect them not to behave that way? It's the government that you support that wants to not educate "kids" about sex. And so the "kids" find out themselves.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2007,08:16   

You are putting words in my mouth at this point, so I'll just back off and say your absolutely right.  You win.  I'm deluded.

If you seriously want to take this conversation further, let me know.  But, at that point you'll have to stop misrepresenting my position.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
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