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MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,14:27   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Jan. 20 2007,11:44)
From what I hear, certain classes of prisoners, like rapists or child molestors, generally have a, uh, tough time in prison (from the other inmates).

Does anyone know where "tax-evading religious frauds" fit in the prison hierarchy . . . .?

Depends how young and pretty they are  :D

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1776
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,14:43   

To the USA majority here. What does federal time mean (as a life experience) compared to State or County?

Is Federal neccesarily "harder" than any other? Or does it just apply to time seved/remission? Or does each level of judiciary have various overlapping levels of prison?

In the UK prison levels vary from maximum security to open. I think maximum security speaks for itself, open means there are no walls, just trust and some checks.

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,16:07   

Federal prisons are for nonviolent white collar criminals, like embezzlers, tax evaders, counterfeiters, etc.

They're not as harsh or as violent as state prisons, where the hardcore rapist/murderer types go.

Hovind should count himself lucky that it was the Feds who got him, and not the state government.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,16:49   

That's not really right. Federal prisons are where you go if you commit a federal crime. State prisons are where you go if you violate a state's laws. White collar crimes are often prosecuted by the feds, but the feds also prosecute violent crimes. There are some pretty fucking awful federal prisons, such as this one or this one. Mobsters also often end up serving time in federal prisons. Federal prison time is by no means easy -- it depends on where you end up and what you did.

This is a pretty instructive list of who ends up at the rougher federal prisons.

This and this are maybe more typical examples of federal prisons that have been around a looooong time.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,21:04   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Jan. 20 2007,11:44)
From what I hear, certain classes of prisoners, like rapists or child molestors, generally have a, uh, tough time in prison (from the other inmates).

Does anyone know where "tax-evading religious frauds" fit in the prison hierarchy . . . .?

I don't know about that but my guess is they all think they are innocent.

He should be in good company.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,22:20   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 20 2007,16:49)
That's not really right. Federal prisons are where you go if you commit a federal crime. State prisons are where you go if you violate a state's laws. White collar crimes are often prosecuted by the feds, but the feds also prosecute violent crimes

Not very many, though.  Most of the violent crimes, like rape, murder, assault, are state offenses, not Fed.  The Feds only get the gangsters if they get 'em on a Federal rap like tax evasion or kidnapping or racketeering.

Most Federal crimes are nonviolent or white-collar crimes.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Serendipity



Posts: 28
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,07:05   

I suppose the deal of $250,000 if anyone can prove to Hovind that evolution is true, is off, huh?

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Without question or false modesty, no success has owed more to serendipity than ours. (Fischer)

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,08:29   

Quote (Serendipity @ Jan. 21 2007,07:05)
I suppose the deal of $250,000 if anyone can prove to Hovind that evolution is true, is off, huh?

He still has one hope .....rescue by aliens

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,13:24   

I had a friend who spent 4 years in Levenworth as a war protester. (This was in the 1950s) He was never the same.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
avocationist



Posts: 173
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,14:52   

Phonon,

I watched most of your linked documentary yesterday, until I had problems with the sound.

It certainly is depressing. I've been worried for some time that mandatory immunizations are coming, and I only found out last week that insurance companies can deny coverage if the person has not complied with some recommended treatment, or failed to ingest prescribed medications.

So now we no longer really have soverieign control over our own bodies, and are not permitted to make informed decisions are to what treatments we will accept.

I wonder about the tax avoision though. That movie stated many ex IRS agents stopped filing when they understood there is no law for it, but most such people lose their court cases rather than win. Also, doesn't do much good in the case of an employee whose employer withholds the tax.

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,17:27   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Jan. 21 2007,13:24)
I had a friend who spent 4 years in Levenworth as a war protester. (This was in the 1950s) He was never the same.

I'd have to say that of all the times I've been arrested (at rallies, demonstrations, protests etc), the worst by far were the Philadelphia cops.  I pissed blood for days after they were done with me.

The New York cops weren't far behind.

The DC cops were actually pretty decent -- I suspect they've seen so much of the political stuff that it just doesn't faze them anymore.

The military MP's at the Pentagon were actually pretty nice to me, except one dude who seemed to be a bit sadistic at heart.

The FBI was always impeccably polite when they interviewed me.  I suppose if they had been actually arresting me, things might have been different.

I only dealt with the Secret Service once, and they were assholes.  This was in '87 or '88, back when Bush the Elder was Prez.  He was giving a speech at a local school, so some friends and me camped out overnight to be right by the front door the next morning, waiting for him with signs at the ready.  Alas, the folks in the black suits saw us and came over to inform us that we couldn't stay there, and they had set up a "Free Speech Zone" **at the back of the building** for all us protestors.  Gee, thanks.  I, in turn, informed them that I, um, wasn't a lawyer or anything, but the last time *I* checked, the **entire United States of America**  was a goddamn 'free speech zone', and perhaps they could point to some law that indicated otherwise . . . ?   The dark-suited ones then ran off to huddle with some other dark-suited ones, and after some chattering into their walkie-talkies, they came over and declared that we couldn't stay there and had to move.  After some discussion during which the words "police state", "South Africa" and "up yours" were mentioned, I then informed them that I was staying right where I was, and the only way I was leaving would be if they dragged me away, kicking and screaming and hollering my head off --- right in front of all those TV cameras that were busily setting up nearby.  More huddling, more chattering, and the guys in the dark suits declared that, well, maybe we could stay there after all.

The pricks.

I suppose that if the same situation were to happen today, though, they'd simply "extraordinarily rendition" us all and send us to Slovakia or someplace to be tortured and indefinitely jailed as terrorist enemy combatants.  (sigh)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,18:30   

Quote (avocationist @ Jan. 21 2007,14:52)
Phonon,


It certainly is depressing. I've been worried for some time that mandatory immunizations are coming, and I only found out last week that insurance companies can deny coverage if the person has not complied with some recommended treatment, or failed to ingest prescribed medications.

So now we no longer really have soverieign control over our own bodies, and are not permitted to make informed decisions are to what treatments we will accept.

Omigod --- next thing ya know, they'll be FLOURIDATING OUR WATER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quick, someone let the John Birch Society know !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,00:38   

Lenny

I'm just curious what informed decision could be made against vaccination?

Louis

P.S. Ten to one he brings up the MMR jab.

--------------
Bye.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,02:00   

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 22 2007,00:38)
Lenny

I'm just curious what informed decision could be made against vaccination?

Louis

P.S. Ten to one he brings up the MMR jab.

Anti-science loonies think that vaccinations are mind control plots and that they cause autisim and other various ills.  Jerkwad African creationists of the Islamic delusion have promoted the spread of polio by forbiding vaccination because it was a "Christian/Jewish/USA attempt to sterilize Muslims."  I only wish the Muslim clerics would die before the children they have doomed.

Edited by Dr.GH on Jan. 22 2007,02:00

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,03:54   

Dr GH,

And here in the 1st world, highly technologically advanced UK we had our first measles death a couple of years ago due directly to the lack of uptake of MeaslesMumpsRubella vaccination.

Remember folks, a little bit of knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing, but a whole shit load of tard is lethal.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
k.e.



Posts: 40
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,07:50   

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 22 2007,03:54)
Dr GH,

And here in the 1st world, highly technologically advanced UK we had our first measles death a couple of years ago due directly to the lack of uptake of MeaslesMumpsRubella vaccination.

Remember folks, a little bit of knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing, but a whole shit load of tard is lethal.

Louis

I haven't told anyone about this but Louis came over to visit ......I told him all about the joys of Bubonic Plague, its not lethal at all, all you need is a rabid sog to suck out the buboes....

''The Curse of the Claw'

  
avocationist



Posts: 173
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,11:40   

All I've got to say is that if this is the kind of mind you people bring to the evolution question, then there is really nothing more to say. Very hard to believe this level of shallow thought. In other words, you examine nothing, question nothing, do no independent thinking at all. Wow.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,11:48   

Quote (avocationist @ Jan. 22 2007,11:40)
All I've got to say is that if this is the kind of mind you people bring to the evolution question, then there is really nothing more to say. Very hard to believe this level of shallow thought. In other words, you examine nothing, question nothing, do no independent thinking at all. Wow.

We love you too.

Care to enlighten us on how Judge Jones was made to 'look foolish'?

Better be deep thought.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,11:54   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 22 2007,11:48)
Better be deep thought.

HHGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,17:31   

Quote (avocationist @ Jan. 22 2007,11:40)
All I've got to say is that if this is the kind of mind you people bring to the evolution question, then there is really nothing more to say. Very hard to believe this level of shallow thought. In other words, you examine nothing, question nothing, do no independent thinking at all. Wow.

Yep.  We're all close-minded commies.  No point in wasting your time with us.  Pearls before swine, ya know.

I expect you'll be leaving then, right?

Bye.

(waving as you ride off into the sunset on your snow-white horse)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,23:33   

Quote
I have sat through   Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:41 pm
various talks and videos of Kent Hovind lying about science, history and even the Bible. I was happy when he was arrested, pleased when he was found guilty, and laughing when I heard his sentence.

Then I listened to the tape recorded phone calls and I realized I had been wrong. I had always thought that his phony degrees and lies were part of a clever scheme to seal money from deluded fools.

Kent Hovind was not just a scam artist, he was bug-crazy. I never imagined that he could have believed his own patter, but after listening to him rant I can see that he was even more delusional than his followers.

The only points when he seemed coherent were when he discussed how to hide his money.

I was wrong. I am still glad he is not going to be out promoting ignorance, but now I also feel sorry for him.
Posted by: GaryHurd


http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps....006

I said something similar to that on Panda's Thumb. I know Kent Hovinds. They aren't deliberately evil. They're too stupid to tell reality from fiction.

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,23:41   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 22 2007,23:33)
Quote
I have sat through   Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:41 pm
various talks and videos of Kent Hovind lying about science, history and even the Bible. I was happy when he was arrested, pleased when he was found guilty, and laughing when I heard his sentence.

Then I listened to the tape recorded phone calls and I realized I had been wrong. I had always thought that his phony degrees and lies were part of a clever scheme to seal money from deluded fools.

Kent Hovind was not just a scam artist, he was bug-crazy. I never imagined that he could have believed his own patter, but after listening to him rant I can see that he was even more delusional than his followers.

The only points when he seemed coherent were when he discussed how to hide his money.

I was wrong. I am still glad he is not going to be out promoting ignorance, but now I also feel sorry for him.
Posted by: GaryHurd


http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps....006

I said something similar to that on Panda's Thumb. I know Kent Hovinds. They aren't deliberately evil. They're too stupid to tell reality from fiction.

Their reality is recursively regenerating ignorance, a perfectly nice place to be if the world doesn't come over the hill.

As someone famous once said around 2500 years ago (in sanskrit  probably)

"With our minds, we create the world".

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,03:58   

Isn't it strange that Hovind's sentencing stirs so many different emotions?

In all seriousness there is a whisper of schadenfreude, a good deal of "he got what he deserved", an equally good deal of pity (he really does believe his anti-reality crapola, and prison is not a holiday camp), and sense of annoyance (why is this pratt such a total anti-reality tardfest).

Ah psychology.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2008,21:17   

The Hovinds' appeal: appelate court confirms all decisions of the lower courts.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2008,21:57   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 31 2008,19:17)
The Hovinds' appeal: appelate court confirms all decisions of the lower courts.


Wes said:

Quote
One might have thought that the persistent miscomprehension Kent Hovind showed concerning evolutionary science might have been compartmentalized, and that he might have been competent in reasoning about other topics,


It reminds me of AFDave. We all know the bizarre thought processes that he exhibits when discussing evolution, but one could always attribute that to him being convinced that His Immortal Soul Was At Stake when it came to Evolution. However, his argumentation was identical when arguing that Portuguese was a 'hybrid' of Spanish and French, an issue where one assumes Jehovah is indifferent. So indeed, his Stoopid is *not* compartmentalized, he's just plain dumb all over.

I can see how if you spend enough of your life obsessing on how to prove the earth is 6,000 years old, it just might fuck up your ability to reason properly elsewhere. Or perhaps it works the other way: if you're dumb enough to be Absolutely Convinced that the earth is 6,000 years old and that anyone believing otherwise is going to hell, no one should *expect* you to be reasonable elsewhere.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 01 2009,09:09   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 31 2008,21:57)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 31 2008,19:17)
The Hovinds' appeal: appelate court confirms all decisions of the lower courts.


Wes said:

 
Quote
One might have thought that the persistent miscomprehension Kent Hovind showed concerning evolutionary science might have been compartmentalized, and that he might have been competent in reasoning about other topics,


It reminds me of AFDave. We all know the bizarre thought processes that he exhibits when discussing evolution, but one could always attribute that to him being convinced that His Immortal Soul Was At Stake when it came to Evolution. However, his argumentation was identical when arguing that Portuguese was a 'hybrid' of Spanish and French, an issue where one assumes Jehovah is indifferent. So indeed, his Stoopid is *not* compartmentalized, he's just plain dumb all over.

I can see how if you spend enough of your life obsessing on how to prove the earth is 6,000 years old, it just might fuck up your ability to reason properly elsewhere. Or perhaps it works the other way: if you're dumb enough to be Absolutely Convinced that the earth is 6,000 years old and that anyone believing otherwise is going to hell, no one should *expect* you to be reasonable elsewhere.

I think you are right about Hovind - the stooopid runs bone deep, BUT he is still dangerous and capable of using his Jim Jones stupid to influence the gullible.

Louis' post of 1/23/07 is still appropriate.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
tmac1238



Posts: 31
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,22:19   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 31 2008,21:57)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 31 2008,19:17)
The Hovinds' appeal: appelate court confirms all decisions of the lower courts.


Wes said:

 
Quote
One might have thought that the persistent miscomprehension Kent Hovind showed concerning evolutionary science might have been compartmentalized, and that he might have been competent in reasoning about other topics,


It reminds me of AFDave. We all know the bizarre thought processes that he exhibits when discussing evolution, but one could always attribute that to him being convinced that His Immortal Soul Was At Stake when it came to Evolution. However, his argumentation was identical when arguing that Portuguese was a 'hybrid' of Spanish and French, an issue where one assumes Jehovah is indifferent. So indeed, his Stoopid is *not* compartmentalized, he's just plain dumb all over.

I can see how if you spend enough of your life obsessing on how to prove the earth is 6,000 years old, it just might fuck up your ability to reason properly elsewhere. Or perhaps it works the other way: if you're dumb enough to be Absolutely Convinced that the earth is 6,000 years old and that anyone believing otherwise is going to hell, no one should *expect* you to be reasonable elsewhere.

It is not Kent Hovind who wastes his life obsessing to prove the earth is 6,000 years old.  Believing a "Theory" based upon "science" with the limited chance to create a universe from nothing, and then feeling comfortable that the state has to fund the propagation of the theory is real obsession.

It's as much idiocy as my pet chimpanzee that I bought at the pet store.  I told him I evolved from him.  He told me he was curious and wanted me to go to the same pet store and buy another one that evolved half way between himself and me.  I then fell off the bed and woke up before that kind fartism was explained.

--------------
Public Death Threats Against All non-Catholics Detects all Propagandists:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/AC....apI.htm
The Actual Purpose of the Iraq War:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/iraqwar....war.htm
The Actual Purpose of the Patriot Act:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/patriot....act.htm

   
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,22:28   

Poe?

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
tmac1238



Posts: 31
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,22:36   

Someone refused to fear black-helicopters, but then decided to fear no-fly-zones.  While our troops were dying, Halliburton stock was climbing.  Billions of dollars then went deliberately unaccountable in Iraq.  So unaccountable that participants all over the internet can't consider it serious either, but persistently discourage discussion on the matter.

HTML
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HrdFFCnYtbk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HrdFFCnYtbk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


How much are we in debt now that we weren't just 8years ago?  One report says $56 Trillion!

Everybody knows GW Bush's name.  Most Americans don't know Kent Hovind's name.  He didn't cause America any pain, money, lives, heartache.

How come evolutionists can't figure this out and put efforts where the most damage to our country is?

--------------
Public Death Threats Against All non-Catholics Detects all Propagandists:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/AC....apI.htm
The Actual Purpose of the Iraq War:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/iraqwar....war.htm
The Actual Purpose of the Patriot Act:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/patriot....act.htm

   
tmac1238



Posts: 31
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,22:41   

Couldn't get the youtube to position properly.  Here's the URL showing George Galloway talking about the cost of the blunders of the Iraq War Kent Hovind didn't make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdFFCnYtbk

With all that happened who would waste time with Kent Hovind?  Make him more popular so the world would know him?

--------------
Public Death Threats Against All non-Catholics Detects all Propagandists:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/AC....apI.htm
The Actual Purpose of the Iraq War:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/iraqwar....war.htm
The Actual Purpose of the Patriot Act:
http://www.TheirSecrets.info/patriot....act.htm

   
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