Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread

Posted: Aug. 31 2007,21:52

Quote

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 01 2007,10:10)

Sal will have his work cut out.
Over at UD Atom asks ? ?

Quote

Since, Sal, you have declared that if your questioned is answered either "Yes" or "No", you will win the argument, will you write up a post showing the details of this? A refutation paper of sorts, showing how her paper fails on either count, so therefore, the paper is erroneous

http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....-135068
Will Sal even ackonledge the request? Or will he just add it to the ever growing pile of pending research?

I think Sal should think about what his purpose is. I thought it would have been to gather converts to the ID cause. However, we have all see him do this before. He takes an irrelevant point in a debate and turns it into a YES/NO answer and so think he wins the debate. Sure the faithful will think he is kewl but what about all the lurkers? Any lurker who is undecided will see that Sal has not actually covered the real issue and is full of it.

Thats one thing that the reality side does well. I think that everybody is aware of the lurkers. We may be mean and nasty but every troll's question will still get answers followed by questions sent back at them. UD will just say it's been answered and ban them.

I'm optimistic. I think that good science blogs and stupid tactics by the opposition will all but kill off creationism within this generation. People like FTK will never change but her kids might.

In related news:

http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspot.com/2007....nt.html

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Posted: Aug. 31 2007,22:04

Quote (factician @ Aug. 31 2007,22:52)

Quote

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 01 2007,10:10)

Sal will have his work cut out.
Over at UD Atom asks ? ?

Quote

Since, Sal, you have declared that if your questioned is answered either "Yes" or "No", you will win the argument, will you write up a post showing the details of this? A refutation paper of sorts, showing how her paper fails on either count, so therefore, the paper is erroneous

http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....-135068
Will Sal even ackonledge the request? Or will he just add it to the ever growing pile of pending research?

I think Sal should think about what his purpose is. I thought it would have been to gather converts to the ID cause. However, we have all see him do this before. He takes an irrelevant point in a debate and turns it into a YES/NO answer and so think he wins the debate. Sure the faithful will think he is kewl but what about all the lurkers? Any lurker who is undecided will see that Sal has not actually covered the real issue and is full of it.

Thats one thing that the reality side does well. I think that everybody is aware of the lurkers. We may be mean and nasty but every troll's question will still get answers followed by questions sent back at them. UD will just say it's been answered and ban them.

I'm optimistic. I think that good science blogs and stupid tactics by the opposition will all but kill off creationism within this generation. People like FTK will never change but her kids might.

That's really interesting. Turns out very few people read Uncommonly Dense compared to the number who read PZ or Panda's Thumb.

ERV says

Quote

Nobody reads UD.

Except us.

If you take away the readers of this thread who check UD several times per day, their audience is even smaller.

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank

Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

Posted: Aug. 31 2007,23:44

Quote (factician @ Aug. 31 2007,21:52)

No surprise there.

ID has been dead as a mackerel for years now.

Dead, dead, dead.

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,00:59

Great moments in Tard.. Flashback!!

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-people

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30 September 2006
Unveiling overwhelmingevidence.com ? give us your young people . . .
William Dembski
The Darwinists have had your young people long enough to shape, subvert, and corrupt. Send them to www.overwhelmingevidence.com and mobilize this sleeping giant! The old guard is not going to change. The hope of the future lies with our youth. The new overwhelmingevidence.com site is modeled on Xanga and Myspace and aimed at concentrating the power of youth to throw off the indoctrination that is being shoved down their throats by groups like the NCSE and enforced by inept judicial rulings like those of Judge Jones (note the image of Jones on the splash page). The NCSE, the ACLU, Jones, etc. have effectively disenfranchised our young people when it comes to the teaching of biological origins. Today?s high school and college students are going to need to reclaim their own freedom.

Less than 1 year ago. Virtually dead now.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....t-66099

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5

MikeFNQ

09/30/2006

8:28 pm
Hmmm? Judge Jones is ?a wacky zany activist, he?s a rogue and he loves that old time Darwinian religion??.

I liked DaveScot?s description of some time ago better

Quote

Judge John E. Jones on the other hand is a good old boy brought up through the conservative ranks. He was state attorney for D.A.R.E, an Assistant Scout Master with extensively involved with local and national Boy Scouts of America, political buddy of Governor Tom Ridge (who in turn is deep in George W. Bush?s circle of power), and finally was appointed by GW hisself. Senator Rick Santorum is a Pennsylvanian in the same circles (author of the ?Santorum Language? that encourages schools to teach the controversy) and last but far from least, George W. Bush hisself drove a stake in the ground saying teach the controversy. Unless Judge Jones wants to cut his career off at the knees he isn?t going to rule against the wishes of his political allies. Of course the ACLU will appeal. This won?t be over until it gets to the Supreme Court. But now we own that too.

Anyway, did we really need another Uncommon Descent mirror, albeit with more colourful graphics?

Huzzah. Bannination in 3...2...

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6

DaveScot

10/01/2006

1:32 am
MikeFNQ

I guess Jones wanted to cut his career off at the knees.

Let me know if he gets promoted.

7

William Dembski

10/01/2006

2:37 pm
MikeFNQ: There?s a phenomenon called a neighborhood effect, in which similar entities enhance and reinforce each other. I?ve removed you from the forum.

And then someone questions the oracle:

Quote

9

Monimonika

10/02/2006

2:06 pm
William Dembski,

Just curious, but can you explain what ?neighborhood effect? is (All Wikipedia had for me was something about ?market failure?) and how it relates to what MikeFNQ wrote?

I?m not complaining about you having him removed. For all I know, MikeFNQ was posting the same thing over and over again. I just sincerely really want to know what was meant by your post.

Thank you.

Monimonika, if you buy 9 copies of "No Free Lunch", you'll understand, because you'll be a level sigma 3J IDist.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
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Bob O'H

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,01:30

Quote

If you take away the readers of this thread who check UD several times per day, their audience is even smaller.

*counts on fingers*

Yep. That's right.

Bob

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Occam's Toothbrush

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,07:21

Things are going just as well over at underwhelminginterest.com:

The up side is that they've been able to allocate more money to ID research by downgrading their server:

While their recent purge of loki trolls has reduced their site traffic slightly, at least the quality is up. Only serious ID supporters now comment:

Quote

hblavatsky | Mon, 2007-08-06 22:32

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Just a side node, isn't there a good argument that the panda's hand is well designed?

Yes, kind of like the way a banana fits perfectly in the palm of your hand and contains all the ideal nutrients. It's almost as if it was designed right? The Banana is naturally occurring evidence of something that is so useful, but could never have evolved.

When you evaluate Michael Behe's claims vs those of Dawkins and PZ Myers, it's worth remembering a few important things. While the consensus is admitidly against Behe, you have to realize that he is not working to a materialist agenda like the other so-called scientists. Science shouldn't be materialistic, we all agree with that dont we?

Fortunately for us IDiots are both incapable of understanding sarcasm or irony, and unable to google "h p blavatsky" to find quotes from the real Blavatsky:

Quote

Man is certainly NO special creation, and he is the product of Nature's gradual perfective work, like any other living unit on this Earth. But this is only with regard to the human tabernacle. That which lives and thinks in man and survives that frame, the masterpiece of evolution -- is the "Eternal Pilgrim." -- H. P. Blavatsky

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"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
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Albatrossity2

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,08:06

From the comment thread on ERV

Quote

Forthekids said...

Oh, now hon...it's highly unfair to compare UD to PZ, PT or any other site that is primarily composed of atheist supporters. I mean, come on...

PZ has a whole faith based organization going on over there

Millions of theists go to church to get their support and guidance for the week, we don't visit places like UD for that. But, atheists hang out on line with their priestly mentors.

To be more fair you'd have to compare PZ with, say, a Billy Graham crusade. Ya know what I'm sayin'?

If we're just talking science minus the atheistic banter and theism bashing, then it would be a much more even match.

And, of course, you have to consider that I've just linked in from AtBC, though I'm a UD supporter. I kinda enjoy watching those folks make fools of themselves. It's a nasty habit, I know, but there it is.

No comment needed.

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
� � � � � � � � � � � � - Pattiann Rogers

Rob

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,08:51

Casey Luskin brings down the Evolutionary Informatics Lab: http://tinyurl.com/yuubas

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-- Rob, the fartist formerly known as 2ndclass

factician

Posts: 77
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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,09:00

Quote (Rob @ Sep. 01 2007,08:51)

Casey Luskin brings down the Evolutionary Informatics Lab: http://tinyurl.com/yuubas

Interesting that the post "Baptist University pulls plug on Evolutionary Informatics Lab - links to intelligent design fatal" comes right after the "Why Darwinism is losing - the big picture" post.

I think O'Leary is a mole. ;)

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oldmanintheskydidntdoit

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,09:14

troutmac, the lay philosopher has been baiting his trap

Quote

Let's imagine that you're on the first manned exploration of the planet Mars. Let's say that your commanding officer has assigned you with the task of gathering any artifacts from Mars which appear to be the products of intelligent life.

To prepare for the mission, it's your job to figure out what sorts of things to look for on Mars. You have to figure out what criteria a given object would have to meet in order to justify bringing it back to Earth as having been produced by an intelligence.

What do you think those criteria might be and why? How would you distinguish between objects produced by an intelligence and those that were not? You cannot afford, due to limited cargo space, to bring back objects that are mis-identified? You?ve gotta get it right. What do you look for?

How cute. Has Troutmac heard of "not"?

Foundsoundthing{
if !="Rock" BringHome();
if !="Sand" BringHome();
}
Link

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger�s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

djmullen

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,11:01

Quote (Rob @ Sep. 01 2007,08:51)

Casey Luskin brings down the Evolutionary Informatics Lab: http://tinyurl.com/yuubas

O'Leary gives us a few hints on the ID death wish

Hint 1: Baylor kicks Dembski out and Marks brings him back in.

Hint 2: Marks is told that his lab is closed and he gets a lawyer and invites Baylor to have their lawyer meet with him.

Yep, bringing back a third rate "scholar" the university fought to get rid of and threatening a law suit are very definitely the ways to do science. As Sam Spade said to Wilmer, "This'll put you in solid with your boss."

djmullen

Posts: 327
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Sep. 01 2007,11:08

This is too rich. David Heddle has teamed up with Salvadore Cordova!

http://helives.blogspot.com/

Look at "Hector, Hector, Hector", "Reply to Dave Mullenix" and "Another Awful Comment".

The last thing you ever want to hear when you're in a intellectual dog-fight:

Salvadore Cordova: "Don't worry, I've got your back!"

P.S. Dave Heddle, there was a reason why Jesus came down so hard on hating your enemies.

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,11:41

Quote

Another one-sided battle

Category: Creationism
Posted on: September 1, 2007 11:45 AM, by PZ Myers

ERV is probably right. No one reads Uncommon Descent.

I've noticed this before, and others have written to me about it. A link on any of the blogs of the creationist flavor, including UD, probably the most "popular" of the ID bunch, brings negligible traffic. I've been linked to with outrage and disparagement several times by UD and Evolution News and Views (remember Egnor?), and noticed no uptick in traffic, and they don't even show up in the few times I've looked at the referrals on sitemeter (although, to be honest, those aren't very useful anymore?getting to see the last 100 visitors means I get a snapshot of less than 5 minutes of traffic). ERV's got less traffic ? but deserves more! ? so she can more clearly see the effects of a hot and heavy link from that bastion of IDiocy, and it's remarkably pitiful.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/09/another_onesided_battle.php

djmullen

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Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Sep. 01 2007,11:59

Hey, Denyse! I read your [URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/baptist-university-pulls-plug-on-evolutionary-informatics-lab-links-to-intelligent-design-

fatal/]article[/URL] on how Baylor kicked the Evolutionary Informatics Lab off-campus. I've got an idea on how to get that lab back into action:

Baylor wasn't providing any actual support for the lab, right? No money, no lab space, nothing like that, right? And they didn't approve of the Evolutionary Informatics Lab web site being on their server either, right? Apparently Marks put it on a Baylor server without asking first. (Technically, this may be a felony, but hey, he's on the Baylor faculty and it's all in the cause of ID Science, so we'll cut him some slack.)

So since Baylor didn't actually support the Lab, all you need is a host for the lab's web site.

May I suggest that ISCID host the Evolutionary Informatics lab. They don't seem to have much traffic on their web site, so they can easily handle the EIL load. And I think their PCID journal should be able to handle what will surely be the voluminous output of the EI Lab, since it doesn't seem to have found enough ID-supporting material to publish even a single issue for the last year or two.

ISCID-PCID-Evolutionary Informatics Lab. Sounds like a marriage made in heaven to me! Best of all, Dembski seems is a co-founder of ISCID, so he's sure to give his own Lab's web site a warm welcome.

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,12:09

They should merge with ICON-RIDS and form the ISCID-PCID-EIL-ICON-RIDS Institute for IC and CSI.

J-Dog

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,12:20

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 01 2007,12:09)

They should merge with ICON-RIDS and form the ISCID-PCID-EIL-ICON-RIDS Institute for IC and CSI.

No.

What they should really do is admit that they got nothing, cash it all in and get real jobs. They should apologize to all of us for wasting our time, and take the big pot of money that the DI has stashed and throw a Funeral For ID Party.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

J-Dog

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,12:45

From PZ's blog:

Albatrossity - I like your "Say No To UD Day" idea. Why don't you suggest it at ATBC, pick a date or two, and we'll see what happens.

We might also consider doing this via PM, so we don't tip our hand, and it will be more of a surprise... Too bad we missed Dr. Dr. Demsbski's birthday. Anybody know when Davey's is?

I started a new post topic about this - please post about it on the new thread

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Hermagoras

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,13:22

Amazing! I got Sal to stop quote-mining me. Frankly, I'm too tired of this crap to determine if he did something like change the question along the way. And also, my position may not be exactly correct -- hey, cut me some slack, I'm a humanist! But at least he quoted me accurately. And that's something.

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Arden Chatfield

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,13:29

*sigh*

The latest entry in the 'ID-has-nothing-to-do-with-religion' sweepstakes:

Quote

Jehu
09/01/2007
9:37 am
If you are not going to allow this type of research, what is the point in having a Baptist university?

I think if this outrage is taken to the proper people, i.e. the Baptists who actually send their kids to Baylor and pay tuiton, it will reverse itself.

Let's definitely get Jehu on the stand during the next big ID trial.

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,13:32

Quote

Not only does nobody read Uncommon Descent, nobody even social bookmarks it. A couple months ago I caught william dembski and davescot creating their own accounts at reddit.com where they would write a blog post, submit it, then be the only ones to comment on each other's shit and act as if they're popular. Sad business, really.

Posted by: Aerik | September 1, 2007 1:58 PM

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyng....-553109

(Edited to add) Bill Dembski: please, please keep this up.

Edited by stevestory on Sep. 01 2007,14:36

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,13:35

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 01 2007,14:29)

*sigh*

The latest entry in the 'ID-has-nothing-to-do-with-religion' sweepstakes:

Quote

Jehu
09/01/2007
9:37 am
If you are not going to allow this type of research, what is the point in having a Baptist university?

I think if this outrage is taken to the proper people, i.e. the Baptists who actually send their kids to Baylor and pay tuiton, it will reverse itself.

Let's definitely get Jehu on the stand during the next big ID trial.

Liberty University or Bob Jones U would fall for this kind of nonsense, but the people at Baylor have demonstrated several times that they didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and snake oil salesmen like Dembski aren't welcome there.

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,13:38

Quote

I was thinking this just today. Two days ago Denyse O'Leary linked from all the blogs she participates at (which is like what a dozen?) a post ranting about an article on a site I help run. This includes Uncommon Descent. The total increase in traffic from all the links she posted was 100 people over 2 days. About half form UD, the other half split up amongst her other blogs. It was certainly far less than I expected.

Posted by: tmtoulouse | September 1, 2007 2:18 PM | kill

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyng....-553132

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,13:51

FtK / Science / ID evidence / Expelled film / Hissy fit:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-135181

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

keiths

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,13:56

Ftk completely forgets she's talking about Baylor:

Quote

I do hope that when the public becomes aware of this censorship of ID, that they come away with the understanding that it is not science (or scientists in general) that is at the root of the problem, but that it is a core group of very loud and nasty philosophical naturalists who are responsible for putting a stop to anything that questions their Darwinian worldview.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

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keiths

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,14:02

Why does Jesus hate Dembski?

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

Arden Chatfield

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,14:04

Quote (keiths @ Sep. 01 2007,14:02)

Why does Jesus hate Dembski?

DUUUH! Because he's a total friggin weenie!

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,14:08

http://reddit.com/user/DaveScot/submitted

oh dear.

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"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
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"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,15:18

QuoteMine!

http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....-135193

Quote

For the reader?s benefit this phrase is a abmiguous:

It certainly is, Sal.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Hermagoras

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Posted: Sep. 01 2007,15:27

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 01 2007,15:18)

QuoteMine!

http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....-135193

Quote

For the reader?s benefit this phrase is a abmiguous:

It certainly is, Sal.

Yup. See here and comments following for discussion of this quote mine at ERV.

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"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

Albatrossity2

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