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  Topic: The Bathroom Wall, A PT tradition< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,08:17   

Hawkins,

You were told not to create new topics long, long before Steve decided that you had otherwise worn out your welcome. Nothing in the interim has changed that. Do it again and your account will be changed to the "Pariah" group.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,08:38   

Oh, and BTW, "free and open discussion" is not synonymous with "I can walk all over any applicable rules, do stuff I was told not to, and get away with it".

Discussion, in fact, is not a "write-only" experience. It requires paying attention to what others say in response, a quality not appreciated in Hawkins's repertoire.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,08:39   

Yes, Wesley, you told me not to create new topics.  And the only reason one can figure for that is that you are afraid of my spotlight shining on your anti-creationist activism.  You certainly cannot support your "AFDave isn't a responsible topic starter" assertion.  How many threads did I even start before you restricted me?  Far fewer than other posters with the "correct" POV.  And your own moderator said I wasn't being banned for misbehavior. But that's OK.  Have it your way.  Your actions only confirm my suspicions about you.  And, BTW ... I already AM in the "Pariah" group.  The only reason I'm not banned completely even from the Bathroom Wall seems to be so that you can posture as not having banned me.

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,08:45   

Quote

And the only reason one can figure for that is that you are afraid of my spotlight shining on your anti-creationist activism.


Forgetful, then? Remember when you were creating topics left and right, with no good reason other than to start something with some minor difference in emphasis from already-existing topics? No?

That's OK. I still recall it.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Rev. BigDumbChimp



Posts: 185
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,08:48   

Quote (afdave @ Aug. 27 2007,08:39)
Yes, Wesley, you told me not to create new topics.  And the only reason one can figure for that is that you are afraid of my spotlight shining on your anti-creationist activism.  You certainly cannot support your "AFDave isn't a responsible topic starter" assertion.  How many threads did I even start before you restricted me?  Far fewer than other posters with the "correct" POV.  And your own moderator said I wasn't being banned for misbehavior. But that's OK.  Have it your way.  Your actions only confirm my suspicions about you.  And, BTW ... I already AM in the "Pariah" group.  The only reason I'm not banned completely even from the Bathroom Wall seems to be so that you can posture as not having banned me.

Or the more obvious reason is that we have more material to laugh hysterically at.

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,08:49   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Aug. 27 2007,08:38)
Oh, and BTW, "free and open discussion" is not synonymous with "I can walk all over any applicable rules, do stuff I was told not to, and get away with it".

Discussion, in fact, is not a "write-only" experience. It requires paying attention to what others say in response, a quality not appreciated in Hawkins's repertoire.

"Write only"?  No, friend.  Come back to the terra firma of reality, please.  I read the overwhelming majority of others' posts here and my detailed, thoughtful responses to those posters proves it.  I even admitted I was wrong publicly on this forum on points of science on several occasions.  I can give you links if you like.  Can you support your assertions?

Oh ... and what rules did I "walk all over"?  How would you support this assertion in light of the fact that your very own moderator said I was not being banned for misbehavior?  Doesn't add up now, does it?

Oh ... and did you forget about our exchange at Wikipedia on "Genetic Recombination"?  That was two way free and open discussion.

Come on Wesley, you can do better.  You want the world to believe that you are an advocate of empirical, fact-based, science, don't you?

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,08:53   

Quote

my detailed, thoughtful responses


You misspelled "long, prolix".

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,08:54   

*names changed to protect the innocent*

Ventriliquist darwinist walks into town and sees AFDAVE sitting on his porch.

darwinist: Hey, cool dog. Mind if I speak to him?

AFDAVE: My dog doesn't talk.

darwinist: Hey dog, hows it going?

Dog: Doin alright.

AFDAVE: [extreme look of shock]

darwinist: Is this your owner? [pointing at AFDAVE]

Dog: Yep

darwinist: How's he treat you?

Dog: Real good. He walks me twice a day, feeds me great food, and takes me
to the lake once a week to play.

AFDAVE: [look of disbelief]

darwinist: Mind if I talk to your horse?

AFDAVE: My horse doesn't talk.

darwinist: Hey horse, how's it going?

Horse: Cool.

AFDAVE: [extremer look of shock]

darwinist: Is this your owner? [pointing at AFDAVE]

Horse: Yep

darwinist: How's he treat you?

Horse: Pretty good, thanks for asking. He rides me regularly, brushes me
down often, and keeps me in the barn to protect me from the elements.

AFDAVE: [total look of amazement]

darwinist: Mind if I talk to your sheep?

AFDAVE: Sheep Lie!!

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:01   

What is Wesley's idea of "creating topics left and right"??

Glad you asked ... 6 topics ... TOTAL!!



Go do a sort by username and see for yourself.  You will see that others started far more topics than me.

Again, Wesley, let's be real, shall we?  You are not fooling anyone except maybe yourself.  This is definitely a page to bookmark for reference.  There is a way for you to save face, though, and you know what it is.  Do what RD.net and IIDB have done.  Open your forum up to other POV's.  If I'm such a poster child for the stupidity of the YEC position, then such a move will help your cause immensely, don't you think?

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:05   

LADDER FOR WESLEY



--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:05   

Speaking of revisionism, using "fundamentalist" to apply to people back in the 1600s and 1700s is simply equivocation. The Christian fundamentalist movement takes its name from essays published between 1910 and 1915, "The Fundamentals: A Testimony To The Truth". Even if one broadly takes fundamentalism to mean "Accepting dispensationalism", one cannot class people prior to around 1820 as generally having that doctrinal commitment.

It's the same old YEC argument that many great scientists were "creationists", but saying "fundamentalists" instead. It, like the earlier argument, ignores the inconvenient fact that pretty few of the people named (e.g., Agassiz) were exposed to any credible scientific alternative to their religiously-based viewpoint on earth history.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:11   

Yep, four topics created by one person in one month whose posts could all have happily fit into an already-existing topic does indeed demonstrate what I was talking about. Thanks for documenting that, Dave.

Quote

You will see that others started far more topics than me.


Starting different topics was not the totality of the issue. Starting a bunch of redundant topics in a short period of time was the issue.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:16   

Lets just fix that projection AFDAVE shall we?

? ?
Quote
Again, Wesley, let's be real deluded, shall we? ?You are I am not fooling anyone except maybe yourself myself. ?This is definitely a page to bookmark for reference my martyrdom. ?There is a way for you ME to save face, though, and you I know what it is. ?Do WHAT I HAVE DONE TO RD.net and IIDB. ?Open your forum up to other POV's MY DELUSION . ?If I'm such a poster child for the stupidity of the YEC position, then such a move will help your MY cause immensely, don't you think?
.
.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:32   

Hawkins wants rules? Here's a few:

Quote

# Moderation messages not entered by the moderator are NOT appropriate on the board. Responses to moderation messages will be made via email, not on the board. Violators may be deemed "excessively annoying" at the moderators' discretion.

# :Annoying: The state of being a hindrance to harmonious, or even interesting, discussion. Repeatedly being annoying will be considered excessively annoying.

# :Excessively annoying: The state of being a hindrance to harmonious, or even interesting, discussion to such a degree that immediate termination of access is warranted or demanded.


So, the whole thing Hawkins has about changing moderation decisions and policy will either go to private communication (email, PM) or he will be putting his account here at risk.

That clear enough, Dave?

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:37   

Yes, Wesley ... you make yourself very clear.  Very, very clear.

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:40   

Quote (afdave @ Aug. 27 2007,09:37)
Yes, Wesley ... you make yourself very clear. ?Very, very clear.

Very very very clear?



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:44   

Gee AFDAVE you must be desperate, eh?

CAPS lock and BOLD the whole lot.

And why?

Nobody loves you anymore, why?

You are an arsehole, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Go back to selling dud promisory notes to old feeble ladies, and ask yourself if Jesus would have ever have arrived in your position. (That's a no BTW)

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:53   

Quote (afdave @ Aug. 27 2007,09:37)
Yes, Wesley ... you make yourself very clear. ?Very, very clear.

So, does anybody want to start a pool for guessing how long it will be before Dave puts a "Wesley Elsberry is still banning me" post up at his blog?

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,09:58   

Quote (afdave @ Aug. 27 2007,08:39)
Yes, Wesley, you told me not to create new topics.  And the only reason one can figure for that is that you are afraid of my spotlight shining on your anti-creationist activism.  You certainly cannot support your "AFDave isn't a responsible topic starter" assertion.  How many threads did I even start before you restricted me?  Far fewer than other posters with the "correct" POV.  And your own moderator said I wasn't being banned for misbehavior. But that's OK.  Have it your way.  Your actions only confirm my suspicions about you.  And, BTW ... I already AM in the "Pariah" group.  The only reason I'm not banned completely even from the Bathroom Wall seems to be so that you can posture as not having banned me.

To show you what kind of a flaming hypocrite AFDave Hawkins is - as of this morning AFDave has decreed that I will not be able to post any comments to his blog that Dave doesn't approve first.  in other words, AFDave has effectively banned me from posting on his blog.

The only reason I'm not banned completely seems to be so that Dave can posture as not having banned me.

What a lying sack of shit hypocrite you are Hawkins.

BTW, over at IIDB Dave's clown act has worn pretty thin with the Mods there too.  Dave now has started 11 threads in the last 3 weeks, and every last one has been locked because of Dave's preaching instead of conducting honest discussion on the OPs.  

 I guess Dave is being 'effectively banned' there too. :D  :D  :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,11:37   

Dave's just being an unimaginative muppet as usual. He isn't getting satisfaction at IIDB (he's having his arse handed to him by the usual suspects and some new appreciaters of the Tao of AFDave, AGAIN). I have no idea what's going on at RDF, but Eric and others indicate that it is much of the same.

So it seems that Dave is just being the dishonest, time wasting moron we've come to know and love. Wake me when he grows a sense of intellectual honesty.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2007,21:23   

(yawn)  Is Dave weeping again . . . ?

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Steviepinhead



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 29 2007,17:36   

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank:
Quote
(yawn)  Is Dave weeping again . . . ?


<shrug>

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 29 2007,17:45   

Quote (Steviepinhead @ Aug. 29 2007,17:36)
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank:
Quote
(yawn) ?Is Dave weeping again . . . ?


<shrug>

Speaking of which, where's that kid with my damn pizza?  ;)

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2007,19:30   

on another thread the following was posted.

Quote
I think that Sewell's question is ill formed. Though I know little about evolution, I can easily imagine that it can produce systems that will not function if any part is removed. Nevertheless, I think what Sewell was really asking, or what I'd like to think he was asking, is this: is there any scientific observation at all, apart from the absurd (The LHC discovers "Made by God" in 300 languages etched on the side of the Higgs boson) that would make an anti-design person suddenly take the design argument seriously. I think it is an interesting question, somewhat related to the falsifiability of evolution, and I think the answer is probably, for the majority, no.

EDIT: utf coding errors


First of all, I've read the bible. Most of it. And the Bhagavad Gita. Plenty of absurd stories in those. Corpses walking around, virgins getting knocked up, dragons and swords and frog storms and all kids of other science fiction. So there's no reason to rule out the absurd as evidence.

But to this question of can us crazy atheists ever see design.

Take a look at the greatest car ever made, the Porsche 959:



In even the most fevered Calvinist's imagination, do you think we wouldn't believe in the Porsche Design Studio?



Do they think we atheists believe there're no conscious designers at Breitling?

Why, we even believe someone designed this thing,



despite the designer being a good deal more mysterious than the CAD junkies in Dearborn.

Juries even routinely convict poisoners and hackers who  cover up evidence of their design, in other words, we can often conclude design despite the designer deliberately hiding.

So we don't have any problem believing in designers who exist.

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2007,19:33   

Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 30 2007,19:30)
First of all, I've read the bible. Most of it. And the Bhagavad Gita. Plenty of absurd stories in those. Corpses walking around, virgins getting knocked up, dragons and swords and frog storms and all kids of other science fiction.

Ever read Aesop's Fables?

Lots of utterly absurd things in there, too.  Talking rabbits who race with tortoises . . . .?  It's almost as stupid as talking snakes who live in magic fruit trees.



;)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2007,19:34   

I should add, though, that I am not a professional philosopher, and I've found that the philosophical speculations of even educated laymen look rather childish to the pros.

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2007,19:42   

Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 30 2007,19:34)
I should add, though, that I am not a professional philosopher, and I've found that the philosophical speculations of even educated laymen look rather childish to the pros.

"Philosophy and the study of the actual world have the same relationship to one another as masturbation and sexual intercourse."    -- K Marx


Or, to quote another genius:


Dole Office Clerk: Occupation?
Comicus: Stand-up philosopher.
Dole Office Clerk: What?
Comicus: Stand-up philosopher. I coalesce the vapors of human existence into a viable and meaningful comprehension.
Dole Office Clerk: Oh, a *bullshit* artist!


;)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2007,20:25   

'anti-design' is still vague. There's the (1) belief that the design of the universe is scientifically knowable, and the (2) belief that such design is philosophically knowable. Yet someone like Wesley, being a christian, might disbelieve 1 and believe 2, while I would disbelieve them both. (I don't know that Wesley would agree with this, I'm just supposing). Yet we're both 'anti-design' because the issue at hand is (1). Regarding (2), we have different epistemological beliefs, but interestingly, we'd both like to see the subject discussed in philosophy classes.

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2007,07:16   

Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 31 2007,01:34)
I should add, though, that I am not a professional philosopher, and I've found that the philosophical speculations of even educated laymen look rather childish to the pros.

Yup.

Although a bare minimum of comprehension and ability should be encouraged don't you think?

;)

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
heddle



Posts: 126
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2007,11:51   

stevestory:

Quote
Take a look at the greatest car ever made, the Porsche 959




No way! Nobody ever did muscle cars like the Americans in the 60's. Porsches are, by comparison, gender challenged. Take for example the '66 Mustang Shelby. Now that's a design that Calvin would have predestined for his garage.

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Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

  
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