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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Frontloading--Dumbest Idea Evar?

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Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2007,14:21    Quote (VMartin @ Sep. 04 2007,14:16) Obviously here is nobobody to discuss issues I have addressed. Stephen excuses himself not to be a scientist (as though natural selection has something common with real science) but neverthenless he is pretty sure darwinism is right. Arden continues to ask his monomanical questions. Probably Arden supposes Natural selection to be a valid scientific concept - his teacher in primary school might has teach him so - ? and those who challenge it he considers for medieval obscurantists (as his teacher told him). Anyway he has innovated darwinian questionary from primary school - he don't ask if the Earth is flat or spheric but how old it is. Still dodging our questions, Martin? Can you NOT ANSWER THEM for some reason? Here. I'll repeat again. 1) do you believe common descent is correct? 2) how old do you believe the Earth is? For (1) all we need is a yes/no. For (2) some rough numbers would be nice. Tell you what, I'll make (2) even easier for you. The earth is: a) 4.5 billion years old b) around 12,000 years old c) around 6,000 years old d) probably a couple million years old e) none of the above. There. NOW all you need is a 'yes/no', and a letter. Is there some reason you're refusing to answer this? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2007,14:36    Quote 17 guests, 18 Public Members and 2 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ] >franky172 >Arden Chatfield >Richardthughes >Stephen Elliott >carlsonjok >Raevmo >XprioSex >jeannot >factician >Erasmus, FCD >Occam's Aftershave >Albatrossity2 >C.J.O'Brien >heddle >eTourist >ppb >Zachriel >blipey Bye, Martin, see you next week! -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2008,18:43    That is not what JAM said on July 18 (page 11 of thread). Edit: Never mind, the referenced spam seems to have been fried.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2008,19:23    Spam comment removed. Quote RGB by Rafa from Brazil -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2008,20:20    Quote Bye, Martin, see you next week! That seems to have been a reeeeeeally long week! Henry

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2010,12:20    Bump. This seems about the best existing thread for the DAEvans exchange to continue in. ETA: It was until I split the topic including that exchange; it has its own thread now. Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on Feb. 23 2010,14:15 -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,09:46    Quote (stevestory @ June 10 2007,22:48) This might not deserve its own thread. Ed Brayton has a new post on Exaptation vs Frontloading which is crossposted to PT, and it got me thinking. I've only known about this 'frontloading' nonsense for about a year. The moment I was exposed to the idea, I had the thought I've since had every time it's come up, which is pretty frequent on UD: Is frontloading the dumbest idea ever, or merely extremely stupid? Front-loading is a dumb idea but evolution via an accumulation of genetic accidents isn't? No that is funny... -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,09:58    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,09:46) Quote (stevestory @ June 10 2007,22:48) This might not deserve its own thread. Ed Brayton has a new post on Exaptation vs Frontloading which is crossposted to PT, and it got me thinking. I've only known about this 'frontloading' nonsense for about a year. The moment I was exposed to the idea, I had the thought I've since had every time it's come up, which is pretty frequent on UD: Is frontloading the dumbest idea ever, or merely extremely stupid? Front-loading is a dumb idea but evolution via an accumulation of genetic accidents isn't? No that is funny... Well, pretty soon we'll decode it all and see what front loaded species are comming up in the future, eh? *bites lip* -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,10:21    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:46) Front-loading is a dumb idea but evolution via an accumulation of genetic accidents isn't? No that is funny... Evolution by natural selection is supported by 150 years of accumulated evidence.  Front-loading... not so much. So yeah, it's a pretty dumb idea. -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,10:31    Quote (ppb @ Feb. 24 2010,10:21) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:46) Front-loading is a dumb idea but evolution via an accumulation of genetic accidents isn't? No that is funny... Evolution by natural selection is supported by 150 years of accumulated evidence.  Front-loading... not so much. So yeah, it's a pretty dumb idea. Too bad evolution by natural selection hasn't been shown to do very much. And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,10:36    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,11:31) Too bad evolution by natural selection hasn't been shown to do very much. And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. In what way?  Where is the research to support baraminology? -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,10:43    Quote And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. Did they do an experiment as to how all them thar animals could fit in the arky-arky? -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,10:45    Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 24 2010,10:43) Quote And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. Did they do an experiment as to how all them thar animals could fit in the arky-arky? Yes Richtard. There is a book that covers that. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,10:46    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:45) Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 24 2010,10:43) Quote And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. Did they do an experiment as to how all them thar animals could fit in the arky-arky? Yes Richtard. There is a book that covers that. Cool! how many animals were onboard? -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,10:47    Quote (ppb @ Feb. 24 2010,10:36) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,11:31) Too bad evolution by natural selection hasn't been shown to do very much. And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. In what way?  Where is the research to support baraminology? All experiments and observations support baraminology. There isn't any experiments that support universal common descent via an accumulation of genetic accidents. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,11:01    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,11:47) All experiments and observations support baraminology. There isn't any experiments that support universal common descent via an accumulation of genetic accidents. I doubt the scientists doing the actual research would agree with your assessment.  I still would like to know in what way it is supported.  I don't see it. -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,11:05    Quote (ppb @ Feb. 24 2010,11:01) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,11:47) All experiments and observations support baraminology. There isn't any experiments that support universal common descent via an accumulation of genetic accidents. I doubt the scientists doing the actual research would agree with your assessment.  I still would like to know in what way it is supported.  I don't see it. Those scientists cannot refute what I said. If you want to know how it is supported then do a little research. You will find that bacteria evolve into bacteria. You will find that no one knows if the transformations required are even possible. So have at it and stop taking the word of people with an agenda. That is what I did thirty years ago... -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,11:09    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,12:05) Those scientists cannot refute what I said. If you want to know how it is supported then do a little research. You will find that bacteria evolve into bacteria. You will find that no one knows if the transformations required are even possible. So have at it and stop taking the word of people with an agenda. That is what I did thirty years ago... I don't take the word of people with an agenda. Guess that's why I'm not a cdesign proponentist. -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,11:37    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,12:05) Those scientists cannot refute what I said. If you want to know how it is supported then do a little research. You will find that bacteria evolve into bacteria. You will find that no one knows if the transformations required are even possible. So have at it and stop taking the word of people with an agenda. That is what I did thirty years ago... Thirty years ago I was finishing up my degree in Biology.  I am not a working scientist, but I have tremendous respect for the people who do the actual hard work of science.  They spend years trying to gain a better understanding of how the world works.  To paraphrase Newton, we see further because we are standing on the shoulders of giants. The Creation Scientists and ID proponents I am familiar with do not do much of their own research.  They mostly cherry pick and misrepresent the work of others to promote their own agenda.  They don't get published much, either in the mainstream scientific journals, or even their own publications.  They prefer to write popular books for their audience, but the scientific community is not impressed. -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,11:45    Quote (ppb @ Feb. 24 2010,11:37) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,12:05) Those scientists cannot refute what I said. If you want to know how it is supported then do a little research. You will find that bacteria evolve into bacteria. You will find that no one knows if the transformations required are even possible. So have at it and stop taking the word of people with an agenda. That is what I did thirty years ago... Thirty years ago I was finishing up my degree in Biology.  I am not a working scientist, but I have tremendous respect for the people who do the actual hard work of science.  They spend years trying to gain a better understanding of how the world works.  To paraphrase Newton, we see further because we are standing on the shoulders of giants. The Creation Scientists and ID proponents I am familiar with do not do much of their own research.  They mostly cherry pick and misrepresent the work of others to promote their own agenda.  They don't get published much, either in the mainstream scientific journals, or even their own publications.  They prefer to write popular books for their audience, but the scientific community is not impressed. Great, then why can't you find some data that supoorts your position? -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,11:52    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,12:45) Great, then why can't you find some data that supoorts your position? They do.  You just prefer to ignore it. Ever read "The Beak of the Finch"?  A great example of real scientists spending years collecting data in support of Evolution. Of course you can look here for lots more references. Where are the baraminologists reporting their research to support their position? -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,12:13    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,12:45) Great, then why can't you find some data that supoorts your position? One of my favorite examples of evolution is the mammalian inner ear.  It's development from the bones in the jaws of reptiles is supported by transitional fossils as well as evidence from embryology. Now, where is that research by baraminologists? -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

Badger3k Posts: 861 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,13:46    Quote (ppb @ Feb. 24 2010,12:13) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,12:45) Great, then why can't you find some data that supoorts your position? One of my favorite examples of evolution is the mammalian inner ear.  It's development from the bones in the jaws of reptiles is supported by transitional fossils as well as evidence from embryology. Now, where is that research by baraminologists? Them be tricks o' the Devil!  There are no transitional fossils.  Every preacher who is a real expert will tell you that, and they get their info from God, who is never wrong.  There - I run rings around your evidence.  Intercourse the Penguin! -------------- "Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,13:50    Quote (Badger3k @ Feb. 24 2010,13:46) Quote (ppb @ Feb. 24 2010,12:13) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,12:45) Great, then why can't you find some data that supoorts your position? One of my favorite examples of evolution is the mammalian inner ear.  It's development from the bones in the jaws of reptiles is supported by transitional fossils as well as evidence from embryology. Now, where is that research by baraminologists? Them be tricks o' the Devil!  There are no transitional fossils.  Every preacher who is a real expert will tell you that, and they get their info from God, who is never wrong.  There - I run rings around your evidence.  Intercourse the Penguin! -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

qetzal Posts: 311 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,17:30    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:47) All experiments and observations support baraminology. There isn't any experiments that support universal common descent via an accumulation of genetic accidents. Yep, he's right. I did an experiment today where I labeled some protein. You know what I found? Baraminology! How fitting that Joe G's avatar is a cartoon character. Are we sure he's not a poe?

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2010,17:48    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,08:47) Quote (ppb @ Feb. 24 2010,10:36) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,11:31) Too bad evolution by natural selection hasn't been shown to do very much. And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. In what way?  Where is the research to support baraminology? All experiments and observations support baraminology. There isn't any experiments that support universal common descent via an accumulation of genetic accidents. We don't need to see his ID. (heh) These aren't the droids we're looking for. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. Saying things over and over doesn't make them true, Joe. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2010,18:06    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:47) Quote (ppb @ Feb. 24 2010,10:36) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,11:31) Too bad evolution by natural selection hasn't been shown to do very much. And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. In what way?  Where is the research to support baraminology? All experiments and observations support baraminology. There isn't any experiments that support universal common descent via an accumulation of genetic accidents. All your experiments are belong to us. -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

Richard Simons Posts: 425 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2010,19:23    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:31) And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. To qualify as science, there must be conceivable results that would refute the Creation position on baraminology. Please give us an example of possible data that would make you reconsider the Creationist position (equivalent to the Pre-Cambrian rabbit). -------------- All sweeping statements are wrong.

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2010,19:32    Quote (Richard Simons @ Feb. 25 2010,19:23) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:31) And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology. To qualify as science, there must be conceivable results that would refute the Creation position on baraminology. Please give us an example of possible data that would make you reconsider the Creationist position (equivalent to the Pre-Cambrian rabbit). 1- The pre-cambrian rabbit is pure bullshit But you don't have to take my word for that just ask David Heddle 2- I don't buy the Creation position. I am just saying that that is what the evidence supports. But what would refute it? Something that supports the premise that mutations can accumulate in such a way as to give ris eto novel protein machienery AND novel body parts and novel body plans. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2010,19:35    Quote (ppb @ Feb. 24 2010,12:13) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,12:45) Great, then why can't you find some data that supoorts your position? One of my favorite examples of evolution is the mammalian inner ear.  It's development from the bones in the jaws of reptiles is supported by transitional fossils as well as evidence from embryology. Now, where is that research by baraminologists? That example exists only in your minds. There isn't any genetic data that supports the transformation. It isn't supported by embryology- just because the structures come from the same area doesn't mean squat. When some scientist goes into a lab, manipulates a reptilian embryo such that it develops a mammaliam middle ear then you will have support. Until then all you have is imagination. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

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