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KevinB



Posts: 525
Joined: April 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,11:12   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 25 2014,09:46)
Quote
Ever since the ID creationist blog Uncommon Descent was taken over by Barry Arrington, it's been a first-class show of the irremediable arrogance and ignorance of creationists. I don't post there because Arrington routinely bans dissent, but I do sometimes enjoy the show.


Ah, that's nice.

Does this mean that UD no longer performs its original function, and is therefore now vestigial?

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,11:16   

Quote (KevinB @ Sep. 25 2014,10:12)
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 25 2014,09:46)
 
Quote
Ever since the ID creationist blog Uncommon Descent was taken over by Barry Arrington, it's been a first-class show of the irremediable arrogance and ignorance of creationists. I don't post there because Arrington routinely bans dissent, but I do sometimes enjoy the show.


Ah, that's nice.

Does this mean that UD no longer performs its original function, and is therefore now vestigial?

Well, it certainly wasn't intelligently designed! :p

  
KevinB



Posts: 525
Joined: April 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,12:27   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 25 2014,11:16)
 
Quote (KevinB @ Sep. 25 2014,10:12)
 
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 25 2014,09:46)
   
Quote
Ever since the ID creationist blog Uncommon Descent was taken over by Barry Arrington, it's been a first-class show of the irremediable arrogance and ignorance of creationists. I don't post there because Arrington routinely bans dissent, but I do sometimes enjoy the show.


Ah, that's nice.

Does this mean that UD no longer performs its original function, and is therefore now vestigial?

Well, it certainly wasn't intelligently designed! :p

There has to be a quip about "vestigial brains" there...

Given the recent UD post PZ Myers: Vestigial means “reduced in size or utility compared to homologous organs in other animals” Huh? it's clear that UD is not vestigial by the first measure as long as KF and BA77 are posting there.

  
BillB



Posts: 388
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,14:39   

Quote (KevinB @ Sep. 25 2014,18:27)
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 25 2014,11:16)
 
Quote (KevinB @ Sep. 25 2014,10:12)
   
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 25 2014,09:46)
     
Quote
Ever since the ID creationist blog Uncommon Descent was taken over by Barry Arrington, it's been a first-class show of the irremediable arrogance and ignorance of creationists. I don't post there because Arrington routinely bans dissent, but I do sometimes enjoy the show.


Ah, that's nice.

Does this mean that UD no longer performs its original function, and is therefore now vestigial?

Well, it certainly wasn't intelligently designed! :p

There has to be a quip about "vestigial brains" there...

Given the recent UD post PZ Myers: Vestigial means “reduced in size or utility compared to homologous organs in other animals” Huh? it's clear that UD is not vestigial by the first measure as long as KF and BA77 are posting there.

Don't think of size literally - if it means size in terms of 'impact' then they are defimatly vestigual.

  
BillB



Posts: 388
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,14:40   

Quote (BillB @ Sep. 25 2014,20:39)
Quote (KevinB @ Sep. 25 2014,18:27)
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 25 2014,11:16)
   
Quote (KevinB @ Sep. 25 2014,10:12)
   
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 25 2014,09:46)
     
Quote
Ever since the ID creationist blog Uncommon Descent was taken over by Barry Arrington, it's been a first-class show of the irremediable arrogance and ignorance of creationists. I don't post there because Arrington routinely bans dissent, but I do sometimes enjoy the show.


Ah, that's nice.

Does this mean that UD no longer performs its original function, and is therefore now vestigial?

Well, it certainly wasn't intelligently designed! :p

There has to be a quip about "vestigial brains" there...

Given the recent UD post PZ Myers: Vestigial means “reduced in size or utility compared to homologous organs in other animals” Huh? it's clear that UD is not vestigial by the first measure as long as KF and BA77 are posting there.

Don't think of size literally - if it means size in terms of 'impact' then they are defimatly vestigual.

Hic! ;)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,14:40   

Incredible butthurt from Arrington. Its hard to not mentally read his posts in a whiny voice.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,16:21   

Barry ("Michele Bachman for Prez") Arrington:

Quote
I suspect Shallit does not post here, because when he does he is routinely shown to be not just wrong but laughably so, as when I took him down here and here. Indeed, Eric Anderson smacked him down just today here. Shallit pretends to be above the fray. It is closer to the truth that he is afraid to post here, because every time he comments on this subject he is made to look like a screaming idiot.

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,16:36   

Arrington apparently never read the appendix (section A.1 on Specified Anti-Information) from the 2003 essay Jeff and I wrote critiquing Dembski's CSI. It includes an alternative to Dembski's "specification" which we argued was superior on pretty much every count, and which does a fine job at distinguishing random strings from non-random ones. It ought to, it is based on the universal distribution.

But because Arrington is an ignoramus, he doesn't know such things exist, and blithers about Jeff thus:

Quote

Shallit made some trivial points. On the substance of the matter – whether design can be detected – he actually undermined his own position. Stunning.


Arrington, of course, is ignorant of what, precisely, Jeff's position is. So saying Jeff has undermined his own position is a stretch for Arrington.

Here is something I wrote about SAI that should help clarify things for Arrington:

Quote

The existence of a minimal program/input pair that results in a certain output indicates that there exists an effective method for production of the output. Since effective methods are something that are in common between intelligent agents and instances of natural computation, one cannot distinguish which of the two sorts of causation might have resulted in the output, but one can reject chance causation for the output. We haven't so much repaired specification as we have pointed out a better alternative to it.

This leads me to a claim about Dembski's design inference: Everything which is supposedly explained by a design inference is better and more simply explained by Specified Anti-Information.

SAI identifies an effective method for the production of the output of interest. The result of a design inference is less specific, being simply the negation of currently known (and considered) regularity and chance. The further arguments Dembski gives to go from a design inference to intelligent agency are flawed. On both practical and theoretical grounds, SAI is a superior methodology to that of the design inference.


Quantifying randomness is an approachable problem. Detecting design... not so much.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,16:44   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 25 2014,16:21)
Barry ("Michele Bachman for Prez") Arrington:

Quote
I suspect Shallit does not post here, because when he does he is routinely shown to be not just wrong but laughably so, as when I took him down here and here. Indeed, Eric Anderson smacked him down just today here. Shallit pretends to be above the fray. It is closer to the truth that he is afraid to post here, because every time he comments on this subject he is made to look like a screaming idiot.

Hmm. Arrington doesn't participate here. Arrington projects pretty well, doesn't he?

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,16:45   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 25 2014,14:40)
Incredible butthurt from Arrington. Its hard to not mentally read his posts in a whiny voice.

Or Wallace Shaun's voice. Does it for me.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,16:55   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 25 2014,16:45)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 25 2014,14:40)
Incredible butthurt from Arrington. Its hard to not mentally read his posts in a whiny voice.

Or Wallace Shaun's voice. Does it for me.

Inconceivable!

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
DiEb



Posts: 312
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,16:59   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 25 2014,22:21)
Barry ("Michele Bachman for Prez") Arrington [...]

Wasn't it "Michelle Bachman for Prez"?

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,17:24   

michellepac

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,17:40   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 25 2014,17:24)
michellepac

The application.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2014,21:52   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 24 2014,22:26)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 24 2014,03:05)
On Barry's Banning Thread, Dr. JDD asks
   
Quote
When have IDers tried to remove evolutionists from their tenured positions or lectureships or jobs due to their views on origins?

Exhibit A

Of course, I would post this on UD but, well, I'm banned.

Those poor bastards.  They're being brutally attacked by their own past.  Where is God when you need Him?

Asgard?

Olympus?

Sha Ka Ree?

Room 7 on the seventh floor?

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,00:38   

KF has gone off the deep end because someone doubts the historicity of Jesus. (All science so far!)

He links to his blog that has Lee Strobel's "Case the case for Christ" video. Is anyone impressed by this?

I did find this interesting though:

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012....ristmas

Quote
Supporting the mythicists is the absence of contemporary evidence testifying to a preaching rabbinical Jesus. Philo (20 B.C.E.-50 C.E.), who lived during the era when Jesus was supposedly alive, was a Greek philosopher who lived in Egypt under the Romans, visited Jerusalem, and wrote extensively about politics in the Middle East. But what he says about Jesus: nothing. As one skeptical website notes:

Much as Josephus would, a half century later, Philo wrote extensive apologetics on the Jewish religion and commentaries on contemporary politics. About thirty manuscripts and at least 850,000 words are extant. Philo offers commentary on all the major characters of the Pentateuch and, as we might expect, mentions Moses more than a thousand times.

Yet Philo says not a word about Jesus, Christianity nor any of the events described in the New Testament. In all this work, Philo makes not a single reference to his alleged contemporary “Jesus Christ”, the godman who supposedly was perambulating up and down the Levant, exorcising demons, raising the dead and causing earthquake and darkness at his death.

With Philo’s close connection to the house of Herod, one might reasonably expect that the miraculous escape from a royal prison of a gang of apostles (Acts 5.18,40), or the second, angel-assisted, flight of Peter, even though chained between soldiers and guarded by four squads of troops (Acts 12.2,7) might have occasioned the odd footnote. But not a murmur. Nothing of Agrippa “vexing certain of the church” or killing “James brother of John” with the sword (Acts 12.1,2).


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,00:48   

Barry's post:

Quote
....So let’s count up the indicia of uncharitable:
Refuse to accept and analyze his arguments on their own terms and at face value:  Check.
Assume he is lying:  Check
Assume he is trying to mislead from his true objective:  Check
Assume he has ulterior motives:  Check


Barry in post 27:

Quote
...As expected, you are lying, obfuscating, deflecting and evading


Barry, you're an uncharitable dipshit.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 659
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,03:11   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 25 2014,22:44)
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 25 2014,16:21)
Barry ("Michele Bachman for Prez") Arrington:

 
Quote
I suspect Shallit does not post here, because when he does he is routinely shown to be not just wrong but laughably so, as when I took him down here and here. Indeed, Eric Anderson smacked him down just today here. Shallit pretends to be above the fray. It is closer to the truth that he is afraid to post here, because every time he comments on this subject he is made to look like a screaming idiot.

Hmm. Arrington doesn't participate here. Arrington projects pretty well, doesn't he?

By George, commenting is permitted right under Shallit's post. BA could show him to be laughably wrong right where he lives!

OK, so far, just 6 fawning Darwinist lickspittles. Make way team, BA's going to brave the fray any minute. Any minute now. Shouldn't be long ... [whistle] ... maybe Eric ...

--------------
SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,03:41   

Quote (REC @ Sep. 25 2014,10:03)
Is steveh a clever troll, or a total moron (regarding trends in climate data:

Quote
Global warming? Don’t make me laugh. The only thing happening here is that, over time, the plateaus are getting more elevated.


More elevated? Like hotter?

Perhaps he means the Tibetan Plateau.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,13:44   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 26 2014,10:41)
 
Quote (REC @ Sep. 25 2014,10:03)
Is steveh a clever troll, or a total moron (regarding trends in climate data:

   
Quote
Global warming? Don’t make me laugh. The only thing happening here is that, over time, the plateaus are getting more elevated.


More elevated? Like hotter?

Perhaps he means the Tibetan Plateau.


No I meant "hotter". I was trying to draw attention to the fact that the OP pointed to an earlier unelevated/cooler plateau followed by a later elevated/warmer one and at the same time claim that the there was no upward trend. And of course I had to do it without disagreeing with Barry.

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,14:21   

I have found Barry to be fun to play with. Under my William Spearshake moniker (I was banned as A_B). He has written two, or is it now three, OPs specifically about me. I was the one that he called a lying obfuscating... And this on the same post that he lectured me about being uncharitable and cynical.

His latest was to identify a contradiction that he discovered between two materialist 'beliefs'. I pointed out that is second materialist belief, that anything that can create life must be supernatural, was false and therefore his entire OP had no point.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,16:54   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 26 2014,14:21)
I have found Barry to be fun to play with. Under my William Spearshake moniker (I was banned as A_B). He has written two, or is it now three, OPs specifically about me. I was the one that he called a lying obfuscating... And this on the same post that he lectured me about being uncharitable and cynical.

His latest was to identify a contradiction that he discovered between two materialist 'beliefs'. I pointed out that is second materialist belief, that anything that can create life must be supernatural, was false and therefore his entire OP had no point.

It's very uncharitable to show the world that Barry is wrong.

And welcome to the banned!

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,17:06   

Thank you for the welcome. But I wasn't banned until just now. But I am willing to bet that my most recent ban is a twist on the Barry Arrogant saga.

Quote
William Spearshake, AKA Acrtia_Bogart, is no longer with us,

UD Editors: We did not write this; WS did. He was not banned. We assume that he could no longer deal with the dissonance of having to commit and then defend so much error in order to prop up his world view. We will miss him. As we said in one of our posts, he certainly provided us with a rich vein of materialist error to mine.


I get banned. And then Barry tells everyone that I wrote it myself.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,18:02   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 26 2014,17:06)
Thank you for the welcome. But I wasn't banned until just now. But I am willing to bet that my most recent ban is a twist on the Barry Arrogant saga.

 
Quote
William Spearshake, AKA Acrtia_Bogart, is no longer with us,

UD Editors: We did not write this; WS did. He was not banned. We assume that he could no longer deal with the dissonance of having to commit and then defend so much error in order to prop up his world view. We will miss him. As we said in one of our posts, he certainly provided us with a rich vein of materialist error to mine.


I get banned. And then Barry tells everyone that I wrote it myself.

Bet they're usually so honest! They after all have that objective morality...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,18:07   

UD's Moron competition:

Quote
38
MungSeptember 26, 2014 at 4:12 pm
Joe:

The ordinary use has information containing meaning. It is only in specific cases would someone say that information does not have any meaning.

Only a moron would say that “meaningless information” is a coherent concept.

39
Barry ArringtonSeptember 26, 2014 at 4:18 pm
No Mung, Shannon information may not have “meaning” as we commonly understand that term.


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Starbuck



Posts: 26
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,18:34   

Saying they ban dissenters id too simple, they often point to other commenters who  are not banned to refute that assertion. But the people they leave behind are critics like nick matzke who all too often get bored and leaves them with the last word, but others don't, its the persistent dissenters who get banned.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,19:41   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 26 2014,18:07)
UD's Moron competition:

Quote
38
MungSeptember 26, 2014 at 4:12 pm
Joe:

The ordinary use has information containing meaning. It is only in specific cases would someone say that information does not have any meaning.

Only a moron would say that “meaningless information” is a coherent concept.

39
Barry ArringtonSeptember 26, 2014 at 4:18 pm
No Mung, Shannon information may not have “meaning” as we commonly understand that term.

Meaning. Shannon had no need of that hypothesis.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2014,20:03   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 26 2014,18:07)
UD's Moron competition:

Quote
38
MungSeptember 26, 2014 at 4:12 pm
Joe:

The ordinary use has information containing meaning. It is only in specific cases would someone say that information does not have any meaning.

Only a moron would say that “meaningless information” is a coherent concept.

39
Barry ArringtonSeptember 26, 2014 at 4:18 pm
No Mung, Shannon information may not have “meaning” as we commonly understand that term.

I googed "meaningless information" and google said: "did you mean uncommon descent?"  ;)

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, youre taking refuge in what we see in the world." PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 27 2014,09:27   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Sep. 27 2014,04:03)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 26 2014,18:07)
UD's Moron competition:

 
Quote
38
MungSeptember 26, 2014 at 4:12 pm
Joe:

The ordinary use has information containing meaning. It is only in specific cases would someone say that information does not have any meaning.

Only a moron would say that “meaningless information” is a coherent concept.

39
Barry ArringtonSeptember 26, 2014 at 4:18 pm
No Mung, Shannon information may not have “meaning” as we commonly understand that term.

I googed "meaningless information" and google said: "did you mean uncommon descent?"  ;)

The units of which are baud...hahahaha....I kill me sometimes.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 27 2014,16:14   

This thread is priceless:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/atheism....unction

KF, still paid by the word, Barry gives KF the reach around )you should read more / better books, Barry!) and ES begins dismantling them...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
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