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Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,10:28   

Quote (Aardvark @ June 05 2006,15:24)
Quote (dhogaza @ June 05 2006,15:03)
Tinabrewer leaves  me gasping ...
   
Quote
Jerry: “Science gets corrupt when it gets political.” This is only the latest phase of why science is corrupt. Its root corruption is much deeper; science is the work of the intellect. It seeks to categorize and explain material reality. The real “leader” in human life should always be the spirit, which seeks communion with the Creative Will of God. Science as it is currently practiced desires the overthrow of this natural hierarchy, replacing wisdom and truth with data and facts.

Well, at least she's honest about why she's anti-science.

tinabrewer -all waffle, no syrup

One could write a whole essay just on this line:

Quote
replacing wisdom and truth with data and facts.


I quite like her implication that 'data and facts' are the antithesis of 'wisdom and truth'.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,10:58   

Quote
I quite like her implication that 'data and facts' are the antithesis of 'wisdom and truth'.


uh oh, I feel a Homer Simpson moment coming on...

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Aardvark



Posts: 134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,11:05   

tinabrewer says:

Quote
In issues like global warming, it is interesting to peel away the politics and ask “what are the values of the spirit which are motivating the different sides?” I think that the environmental groups have a correct basic inner urge to protect the purity of the air we breathe and the ecologies which sustain complex life. They are also filled with hangers-on, who merely use their association with the “correct” opinions to elevate their own egos. this is true of any cause on any segment of the political spectrum. You have the kernel of truth, and the dross which clings to it. We live in a maze of our self-created errors.


Summary:  "You can't handle The Truth!!!"

:(

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,11:13   

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 05 2006,15:58)
 
Quote
I quite like her implication that 'data and facts' are the antithesis of 'wisdom and truth'.


uh oh, I feel a Homer Simpson moment coming on...

You mean this?

Homer (sarcastically): "Facts?? You can prove anything with facts!"

Or this:

Ned Flanders: Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things!

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Colin



Posts: 11
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,11:36   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1184


Berlinski apparently has access to secret knowledge that (A) Chomsky is a fellow traveler, squelched by the scientific community and (B) another sympathiser at MIT was destroyed by that pesky peer review.

I'm most curious about how DaveScot will process the idea that Chomsky is one of the faithful.  Why, he's a practically an ACLU member.

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,11:41   

Yes, AC.

just like that.

;)

*whew*

i feel better now.

In case someone needs source material for future reference, here is Homer's wisdom:

http://www.angelfire.com/home/pearly/homer/homer-quotes1.html

"God bless those pagans."

"I'm having the best day of my life, and I owe it all to not going to Church!"

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1776
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,12:06   

Quote (Wonderpants @ June 05 2006,13:51)
Quote (Faid @ June 05 2006,09:47)
Quote
I love the peanut gallery at ATBC. They’re better than The Three Stooges, The Keystone Cops, Monty Python’s Flying Circus, and The Benny Hill Show rolled into one! None of them are actually banned. Some just don’t get all their comments posted. Some hardly ever get a comment posted. A few aren’t even on the moderation list because they’re not stupid or trollish. -ds


Aww shucks, Davesy! Thanks! We remember well your warm welcome and our hospitable stay in your forum, and we're honoured that a genious of your magnitude still finds time from single-handedly disproving evolution in his basement, to bother with us!
And I'm personally honoured to be compared to Monty Python by you. *fights a tear*

That reminds me of the single most infuriating thread/post I ever read on UncommonlyDense. Some of the UD posters started a Life of Brian quote game.

Dunno about anyone else, but the sight of the finest comedy film ever, which is entirely based around the concept of ridiculing the blind faith, dogmatism, and sheeplike behaviour of fundamentalist religion being quoted on a board which defines the above behavour made me want to put my fist through the screen.

I think "Life of Brian" was more anti-terrorist than anti-religion. Was bloody funny though.

  
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,12:10   

Quote (Wonderpants @ June 05 2006,13:51)
Quote (Faid @ June 05 2006,09:47)
Quote
I love the peanut gallery at ATBC. They’re better than The Three Stooges, The Keystone Cops, Monty Python’s Flying Circus, and The Benny Hill Show rolled into one! None of them are actually banned. Some just don’t get all their comments posted. Some hardly ever get a comment posted. A few aren’t even on the moderation list because they’re not stupid or trollish. -ds


Aww shucks, Davesy! Thanks! We remember well your warm welcome and our hospitable stay in your forum, and we're honoured that a genious of your magnitude still finds time from single-handedly disproving evolution in his basement, to bother with us!
And I'm personally honoured to be compared to Monty Python by you. *fights a tear*

That reminds me of the single most infuriating thread/post I ever read on UncommonlyDense. Some of the UD posters started a Life of Brian quote game.

Dunno about anyone else, but the sight of the finest comedy film ever, which is entirely based around the concept of ridiculing the blind faith, dogmatism, and sheeplike behaviour of fundamentalist religion being quoted on a board which defines the above behavour made me want to put my fist through the screen.

Clearly you have not watched "Kind Hearts and Coronets" if you think some mere trifle like "Life of Brian" has any claim to be the finest comedy film ever.  :D

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,12:28   

Quote
I think "Life of Brian" was more anti-terrorist than anti-religion. Was bloody funny though.


...or anti cult.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,12:38   

Quote (Colin @ June 05 2006,16:36)
http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1184


Berlinski apparently has access to secret knowledge that (A) Chomsky is a fellow traveler, squelched by the scientific community and (B) another sympathiser at MIT was destroyed by that pesky peer review.

I'm most curious about how DaveScot will process the idea that Chomsky is one of the faithful.  Why, he's a practically an ACLU member.

As a linguist, I can attest that Chomsky has, or has had, far too great an influence on the field, but I can also attest that plenty of people 'question his brilliance' and that Chomsky does not 'have a stranglehold' on linguistic research in the US. Thousands of linguists do work that simply has nothing to do with Chomsky's ideas, work where Chomsky's ideas are simply irrelevant.

If anything, the notion that Chomsky determines all linguistic work in America is a myth propagated by his partisans. Chomsky's grip on linguistics has been slipping ever since the 1980's, tho his followers would never admit it.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,12:42   

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 05 2006,16:41)
Yes, AC.

just like that.

;)

*whew*

i feel better now.

In case someone needs source material for future reference, here is Homer's wisdom:

http://www.angelfire.com/home/pearly/homer/homer-quotes1.html

"God bless those pagans."

"I'm having the best day of my life, and I owe it all to not going to Church!"

Oh shoot, I got the quote wrong. It should be:

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

This one also bears repeating:

Homer, explaining why he doesn't want to go to church: "What if we picked the wrong religion? Every week we're just making God madder and madder."

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,17:46   

Re "People like Dembski don't have that excuse - they know full well that they're using a false argument. They just don't care."

Iow, they think their argument will be effective politically.

Henry

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,18:43   

Lets hold a mirror up to Tina's projection
         
Quote

Tinabrewer leaves  me gasping ...
           
Quote
 
Jerry: “Science Xtian Fundamentalism gets corrupt when it gets political.”

This is only the latest phase of why science Xtian Fundamentalism is corrupt.

Its root corruption is much deeper; science Xtian Fundamentalism is the work of the intellect dishonest liars with an emotional appeal to authority .
It seeks to RE-categorize and explain material reality.

The real “leader”Tina's Fundy 'Father' (Dear Leader) in human religious life should always be   the spirit Tina's own conscience, which seeks communion with the Creative Will of God Tina's own Xtian Fundamentalism TM.

Science Xtian Fundamentalism as it is currently practiced desires the overthrow of this natural hierarchy  The American Constitution, replacing wisdom and truth with (imaginary) data and (non)facts.



The whole  lot of them rationalize away their dishonesty with convoluted theology and turn vice into virtue.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,02:07   

Slaveador is a big meanie

Quote
PS
An anecdote about Lynch: I quoted him last fall in a talk I gave at UVa at an IDEA meeting (mentioned here). Somehow, Lynch, 800 miles away was informed that I quoted him! He wrote me demanding I refrain from quoting him from his response to the article where I was featured in Nature (see Who has design’s on your student’s minds? and Lynch’s response ID or intellectual Laziness). Sheesh, does he have nothing better to do than police what is said at IDEA meetings (in Virginia) at schools 800 miles away from him (Indiana).

He gave the usual anti-ID diatriabe in his letter to me. I basically told him to go take a hike (engineers need not worry about reprisals from evolutionary biologists). I said that while we engineers are building space stations, evolutionary biologists are drawing phylogenetic trees that don’t even agree with each other, and these phylogenies may as well have been drawn up by kids with crayola crayons (I in effect suggested, “Evolutionary Biologists aren’t real sceintists”) . I then invited him to circulate my response to him to his Darwinist colleagues.  

Comment by scordova — June 6, 2006 @ 2:41 am

Crayola crayons?  I think he means "crayola crayon's."

  
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,03:24   

I think Sal's most amusing trait is his blatant narcissism; have you ever noticed how often he draws attention to that article in Nature (in which he was characterized, for better or worse, as a fundie moron)?

Fifty years from now, when it's still his sole claim to any kind of fame, he'll be bragging about it to yet another generation of uncaring, unadoring, creobots.

Of course, his other excellently idiotic trait is his fundamental idolatry: he doesn't just approve of Dembski - he worships Dembski.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,03:46   

Now, I have hard evidence that they think that what they imagine is fact:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1175#comment-41750

Quote
49.  SETI looks for OSC (Ordered Sequence Complexity) in cosmic RF. It is a DSP.
SIDI would look for FSC (Functional Sequence Complexity) in genomic intron data.

I imagine the neo-darwinst reponse to SIDI success would be - “Oh, they are just finding the rejects in the junkyard of RM+NS”.

First they call us monkeys, now we are garbage cans. Who are these guys?

Comment by Collin DuCrâne — June 3, 2006 @ 9:04 pm

He imagines that we will call them garbage cans, so we must have.  That's kind of like DT imagining that we are church burnin' ebola boys, so we must be.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,03:56   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1175#comment-41853

Quote
But let’s take a closer look. If I understand things here correctly, what Shostak is calling a “simple” tone is as far away from being simple as something can get. In fact, it should be considered a highly complex structure. If I’m not mistaken, a ’simple’ sinusoidal wave can be constructed through the constructive interference of a number of electromagnatic waves differing in wavelength and amplitudes. The fact that ’sinusoidal’ waves don’t exist in nature is very likely due to all the ‘noise’ that exists in nature, ‘noise’ that simply never sums up in the proper way so as to form a ’sinusoidal’ wave. Now the EXPLANATION for there not being a ’simple sinusoidal’ wave found in the microwave band is that the only ‘noise’ that nature produces in that part of the electromagnetic spectrum is that coming from hydrogen gas. Thus, hydrogen has nothing to interfere with; and, hence, constructive interference in this region is therefore ruled out. Thus, the appearance of a ’sinusodal’ wave is, instead of being SIMPLE, is, in fact, too COMPLEX a structure to be created by ‘nature’ in that part of the EM spectrum; and the INFERENCE would then be that it had to have been PURPOSIVELY produced: hence, ‘intelligence.’ Sounds a lot like ID, doesn’t it?

Whaaaaaa?
One constructs a simple sinusoid with many complex sinusoids?
Whaaaaaa?

Perhaps he is thinking of an EM pulse?

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,04:02   

Quote
Even if global warming is caused by humans, I don’t give a ####, quite frankly. Either there is a god/gods/extraterrestrials overseeing this planet who will step in at some time (due to their OWN priorities and goals with regards to this planet) to prevent humans from screwing it up completely, or else there isn’t any such higher power, and life (and this planet, warm or cold) is but a collosal accidental joke anyway. Either way I am not worried about it.


Can one of my American friends tell me if this might be a general consensus among the very religious over there. If so I am very worried.

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,04:07   

Whoa... Talk about christian ethics...


Hey davey, how's this for "universal moral law"?

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,04:13   

I know I have been through this before but "Don Quixote" by Cervantes the "Heart of Darkness" by Conrad and "Lolita" by Nabokov talk of mans lust for pagan material Gods/goods (to those men there is no difference), a crushing desire to possess, which causes suffering for the protagonist and those around them.

Those writers were not just writing about an abstract idea, their inspiration came from their own experiences with living breathing people they met. Their vast life experiences when informed by the great stories/myths of previous generations coupled with a cold hard eye and  their own considerable artistic talents allowed them to relate universal themes through their stories. Part of that talent is to overcome the barrier of language as dogma and allow the reader to experience the drama from within the story. In a post literate world TV and Movies take that role and the big stories are replaced with soap advertisments, it would seem religion is headed that way as well.

Those universal themes go right back to pre-biblical times the Sumerian/Egyptian/Greek/Indian-Bhagavida
Ghita
tales are not actual history, they are the normally hidden unconscious dreams,fears and desires of mankind expressed as stories and the hardware that caused those stories has not changed since those times.

If you were magically transported back to ancient India with a babelfish  
translator and told those ancients about a group of people thousands of years in the future who had an idea for a god that fiddled with nature but couldn't say how or that none of them could prove  existed and when each of them are asked could only provide differing stories, I'm pretty sure your ancient listener could quote a similar story(no prizes for guessing which one)

It always impresses me when the likes of Salvador Cordova pop up and seem to play out one of the characters in those stories mentioned above ...how some things never change.

Salvador the Sancho Panza of the ID movement has the the job as the harlequin Russian fool(who seems to survive in the heart of the ID movement by not knowing what’s going on around him) on Kurtz-ski's quest for ivory (the pagan God that is so worshiped by Dembski and other whites) in the dark heart of Africa/mankind (take your pick).


My guess is that neither the Russians nor NASA are in any danger of hiring a fool for an engineer on any space station any time soon.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,04:34   

Quote (Chris Hyland @ June 06 2006,09:02)
Quote
Even if global warming is caused by humans, I don’t give a ####, quite frankly. Either there is a god/gods/extraterrestrials overseeing this planet who will step in at some time (due to their OWN priorities and goals with regards to this planet) to prevent humans from screwing it up completely, or else there isn’t any such higher power, and life (and this planet, warm or cold) is but a collosal accidental joke anyway. Either way I am not worried about it.


Can one of my American friends tell me if this might be a general consensus among the very religious over there. If so I am very worried.

There is an element (AFAIK) that believes what this person said: that god will protect us or the rapture will come first anyway.  This person differs in actually seeming to entertain that there might not be a higher power, but quickly follows it with the old "No god = meaningless" canard.

That said, there are some evangelicals out there that are pushing for good stewardship of the Earth.  So, at this point I think there isn't a general consensus.  Of course, I think our president falls on the side of the former group, but let's not go there because I'll get upset.

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,06:41   

Re "he doesn't just approve of Dembski - he worships Dembski."

Isn't that idolatry, or something? :p

Henry

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,08:54   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1178#comment-41948

Quote
11.  If I bring in a little outside disciplines here…

The materialist doesn’t really believe his materialism. He is like a mother who defends her wrotten child. She consciously believes her kid is wonderful and can do no wrong. When the principal calls and tells her her son has been stealing, she says “no, my son is wonderful.”

But you notice that she won’t leave her purse alone in a room with her son.

That is what the materialist is like. Every so often, the truth of what they subconsciously know sneaks out.

“It’s not designed. It’s not designed.” They not only deceive they self-deceive.

Comment by geoffrobinson — June 5, 2006 @ 9:05 am

All those evil athiest evilutionist just don't want to admit that there's a god and that ID is Truth, but they know it's True and subconsciously they stop being wrotten and realize Jesus loves them.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,09:00   

Michaels7 is becoming one of my favorite fountains of IDiocy:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1178#comment-42013

Quote
Finally - you cannot reverse engineer a non-engineered process.

Oh, so if we reverse engineer anything, that means that it was designed?  ID has been proven.  We can all stop our dogmatic defense of Darwinism.  We have met our Waterloo.

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,09:13   

Re "We have met our Waterloo."

But, which side were we on? ;)

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,09:18   

Quote (Henry J @ June 06 2006,14:13)
Re "We have met our Waterloo."

But, which side were we on? ;)

Abba's side?

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,09:25   

That DuCrank guy who's shown up recently's pretty funny, too:
Quote
Introns do not prove the identity of the creator, but they certainly could be considered to be his signature or copyright. Legally, this alone should be enough to chase the egg-poachers out of the hen-house.

We don't know the identity of the creator, but he owns the copyright to His Bits of DNA!

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,09:47   

Quote

Can one of my American friends tell me if this might be a general consensus among the very religious over there. If so I am very worried.


It's pretty popular among the very religious, but I'd say most people in America don't take their religion very seriously, thankfully. People like AFDave believe this, but they're considered idiots by most of the people who make important decisions.

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,10:15   

Quote
There is an element (AFAIK) that believes what this person said: that god will protect us or the rapture will come first anyway.


consider your contention proven, no need to add the AFAIK to it anymore.

I've met several people over the last 20 years or so who think exactly like this.

it's both fascinating and disgusting to hear how they view their responsibilities.

I sense that it has more to do with depression and a sense of futility in their lives, than anything any pastor told told them, or they read in a book.

When they get together in a group, they simply reinforce their own destructive projections, and claim it has something to do with religion.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Dante



Posts: 61
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,13:20   

This isn't from UD, but from the blog of one of its (former) fans, Josh Booze man.

Quote
even [Jerry Fallwel's] views, which i disagree with, about a young earth are the majority view. (Link)


Josh not being a young earther seems awfully hard to believe. I would have imagined Falwell as being and idol of Booze man.

(This will probably be my last post for a while, I'm going on vacation.)

--------------
Dembski said it, I laughed at it, that settles it!

    
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