Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Uncommonly Dense Thread 2

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,04:07

Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 30 2008,22:46)

Dave didn't heed your warning

Quote

12

DaveScot

09/30/2008

10:49 pm

Tard Alert!

TomRiddle is no longer with us.
Larry Fafarman is in timeout, again. I felt bad that I was taking time away from his holocaust denial work on his own blog. He gets irritable when he doesn’t get enough Jew-bashing time. I think he probably likes Osama because of Osama’s muslim background and connections.

I guess he edited his post.

The best part is, poor befuddled Larry got the ban-hammer for making a completely rational and accurate observation, but the fact that he even attempted to publicly criticize DT serves only as further evidence of his estrangement from reality. It's so...elegant. A true work of TARD.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

didymos

Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,04:11

DaveTard:

Quote

McCain’s a military guy so this is like battle planning for him. He’s just keeping the Obama campaign enough off balance so its vulnerable.

TARD, like Hope, doth spring eternal.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

CeilingCat

Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,04:54

Quote

DaveTard: Imagine if Obama’s GPA wasn’t actually in the top 10% yet the public has been led to believe it was by the magna cum laud(sic) claim. This almost(sic) certainly why the Obama campaign has refused to release undergraduate and graduate GPA’s.

I guess DaveTard didn't graduate magna cum laude in spelling or grammer.

In other news, a comment in the same thread reports Kirk Cameron has a movie out - "Fireproof", with a full $500,000 budget. Trivia from the IMDB:

Quote

Kirk Cameron, a Christian evangelist, refuses to kiss any woman other than his wife under any circumstance, so to film a scene in which his character in this movie kisses his wife, the filmmakers had to dress Cameron's real-life wife, Chelsea Noble, as the wife character (played throughout the rest of the movie by Erin Bethea) and shoot the kissing scene in shadow so the difference between Noble and Bethea would not be as evident onscreen.

Jesus would be so ... ah ... proud?

Big question from the film: "But can he attempt to love his wife while avoiding God's love for him?"
I'm betting he will.

Venus Mousetrap

Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,05:58

Quote (CeilingCat @ Oct. 01 2008,04:54)

In other news, a comment in the same thread reports Kirk Cameron has a movie out - "Fireproof", with a full $500,000 budget. Trivia from the IMDB:

Quote

Kirk Cameron, a Christian evangelist, refuses to kiss any woman other than his wife under any circumstance, so to film a scene in which his character in this movie kisses his wife, the filmmakers had to dress Cameron's real-life wife, Chelsea Noble, as the wife character (played throughout the rest of the movie by Erin Bethea) and shoot the kissing scene in shadow so the difference between Noble and Bethea would not be as evident onscreen.

'Reality is much more important to me than some made up piece of fiction. According to this book of ancient tales I live my life by.'

Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,06:42

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 01 2008,01:54)

and the next comment in that thread:

Quote

15

DaveScot

10/01/2008

12:39 am

...

If McCain can’t outsmart an affirmative action poster child like Barky Obama I sure can’t trust him to outsmart people like Vladimir Putin or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad either.

Did dave misspell "Darky"?

With that, I've reversed my withdrawal of the "Tard" appellation. DaveScot is once again DaveTard.

Which is fun because I like using "Father O'DaveTard" when this paranoid bigot feigns interest in protecting those at UD with Christian commitments.

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Hereâ€™s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

Venus Mousetrap

Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,07:48

I must say I'm really amazed this didn't make it past moderation.

Quote

19

Venus Mousetrap

10/01/2008

6:03 am
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

TomRiddle is no longer with us.

Larry Fafarman is in timeout, again. I felt bad that I was taking time away from his holocaust denial work on his own blog. He gets irritable when he doesn’t get enough Jew-bashing time. I think he probably likes Osama because of Osama’s muslim background and connections.

… you criticise anti-semitism (which wasn’t even the subject of the comment that got Larry suspended, but who’s counting) only to follow it up by comparing Obama to a terrorist just because he’s related to muslims?

Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,07:55

Quote (didymos @ Oct. 01 2008,04:11)

DaveTard:

Quote

McCain’s a military guy so this is like battle planning for him. He’s just keeping the Obama campaign enough off balance so its vulnerable.

Erm- McCain's last actual combat experience didn't turn out so well, did it?

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"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

oldmanintheskydidntdoit

Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,08:51

An amusing little gem I found:

O'Leary notes on a new blog post on UD

Quote

I myself would place more confidence in statistical analysis and redundancy than in peer review (who are the peers?) but it is all worth a try, in principle.

Now, if you follow that link you get to (surprise surprise) what is basically a collection of links on one of O'Leary's many blogs.
Clicking on
Part Two: How bad can it get? Pretty bad.
brings you to an collection of rambling words that contains this classic statement from O'Leary

Quote

Interestingly, the ID journal, Progress in Complexity, Information, and Design (PCID) has opted to return to the early twentieth century approach, where a senior scholar recommends a junior scholar for publication. Time will tell if this old method can be revived successfully.

O'Leary wrote (or recycled) that on 11/15/06. The last time PCID published was November 2005. Not very good at doing research is she?

Time has told. And it says "ID is bunk".

EDIT: There's a new post on the PCID forum that is not by JAD!
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000693.html
It's that clever dude William Brookfield.

Quote

I see William Dembski’s “specified complexity” as an important step towards the filling of the Shannon-ian lacuna. Dembski’s “specification” however, seems to address only the macroscopic properties of specificity while ignoring the microscopic implications. Thermodynamics originally addressed only the macroscopic properties of “temperature” “pressure” and “volume” until a microscopic formulation (statistical mechanics) was developed. I am suggesting brainstorming the microscopic implication of “specifications” and I am here proposing my notion of “correlational improbability” as the microscopic quantifier of informational “specificity.”

I suspect he's been playing with the "ID buzzword phrase generator" again.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

Venus Mousetrap

Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,09:29

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Oct. 01 2008,08:51)

An amusing little gem I found:

O'Leary notes on a new blog post on UD

Quote

I myself would place more confidence in statistical analysis and redundancy than in peer review (who are the peers?) but it is all worth a try, in principle.

Now, if you follow that link you get to (surprise surprise) what is basically a collection of links on one of O'Leary's many blogs.
Clicking on
Part Two: How bad can it get? Pretty bad.
brings you to an collection of rambling words that contains this classic statement from O'Leary

Quote

Interestingly, the ID journal, Progress in Complexity, Information, and Design (PCID) has opted to return to the early twentieth century approach, where a senior scholar recommends a junior scholar for publication. Time will tell if this old method can be revived successfully.

O'Leary wrote (or recycled) that on 11/15/06. The last time PCID published was November 2005. Not very good at doing research is she?

Time has told. And it says "ID is bunk".

EDIT: There's a new post on the PCID forum that is not by JAD!
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000693.html
It's that clever dude William Brookfield.

Quote

I see William Dembski’s “specified complexity” as an important step towards the filling of the Shannon-ian lacuna. Dembski’s “specification” however, seems to address only the macroscopic properties of specificity while ignoring the microscopic implications. Thermodynamics originally addressed only the macroscopic properties of “temperature” “pressure” and “volume” until a microscopic formulation (statistical mechanics) was developed. I am suggesting brainstorming the microscopic implication of “specifications” and I am here proposing my notion of “correlational improbability” as the microscopic quantifier of informational “specificity.”

I suspect he's been playing with the "ID buzzword phrase generator" again.

Unsurprisingly, this has already been done. Kind of. I keep suggesting that the ID people should focus some research on cellular automata or similar, because a lot of what they are talking about HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.

Chris Langton, in like the 1970s, noticed that cellular automata seemed to fall into one of four categories:

You had the empty ones which just fizzled out to nothing.

Then you had the ones which formed lots of regular patterns, but didn't do much else.

Then you had the ones which were so jumbled that they were just a chaotic mess.

And finally, you had the ones which were in between the last two, the 'complex' ones, which seemed like randomness but which coalesced into weird, amazing structures. The Game of Life which Davescot so seems to hate is one of these.

People not asleep at this point will notice that these near exactly correspond to Dembski's ideas of regularity, chance, and complexity, so much so that if they weren't all running a creationist scam over there, it'd probably have been mentioned.

But what's really neat is that Langton quantified the 'microstates' of these systems, if you like, with a simple number, which he called lambda. It's a dimensionless fraction, and I forget how it's defined, but it's something like the number of available states divided by the total number of possible states - a kind of measure of computational potential. And with this number, he could tell whereabouts a system was in terms of chaos, regularity, or complexity.

Personally I believe that the very existence of cellular automata like these blows the whole notion of ID out of the water, but still, if I were trying to pretend to be doing research, I would totally be playing around with CAs.

dvunkannon

Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,10:18

Quote (Venus Mousetrap @ Oct. 01 2008,10:29)

Unsurprisingly, this has already been done. Kind of. I keep suggesting that the ID people should focus some research on cellular automata or similar, because a lot of what they are talking about HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.

Chris Langton, in like the 1970s, noticed that cellular automata seemed to fall into one of four categories:

You had the empty ones which just fizzled out to nothing.

Then you had the ones which formed lots of regular patterns, but didn't do much else.

Then you had the ones which were so jumbled that they were just a chaotic mess.

And finally, you had the ones which were in between the last two, the 'complex' ones, which seemed like randomness but which coalesced into weird, amazing structures. The Game of Life which Davescot so seems to hate is one of these.

People not asleep at this point will notice that these near exactly correspond to Dembski's ideas of regularity, chance, and complexity, so much so that if they weren't all running a creationist scam over there, it'd probably have been mentioned.

But what's really neat is that Langton quantified the 'microstates' of these systems, if you like, with a simple number, which he called lambda. It's a dimensionless fraction, and I forget how it's defined, but it's something like the number of available states divided by the total number of possible states - a kind of measure of computational potential. And with this number, he could tell whereabouts a system was in terms of chaos, regularity, or complexity.

Personally I believe that the very existence of cellular automata like these blows the whole notion of ID out of the water, but still, if I were trying to pretend to be doing research, I would totally be playing around with CAs.

This thread discusses lambda, and attributes the four way classification of CA to Wolfram, which I think is correct.

Prior to bannination, I made similar suggestions directly to the good DDrr.. on UD. If he wanted to show "What Evolution Can't Do", he should use GA to find the edge of evolution. However, MESA was apparently the local maxima of his research, and he can't weasel his way out of it.

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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

dvunkannon

Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,15:52

I think Denyse is using a carpet bombing technique in an attempt to push Scooter's politicization of UD off the front page. You go girl! Stand up for having an IQ north of 54' 40"! Who cares if Dave thinks Obama has cooties! The question is - did cooties evolve, or were they front loaded into Obama's genome?

It's a pity that since McCain did not choose DDrr.. Dembski as his running mate, UD has been left to the beta male.

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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,19:22

Minor note to dvunkannon: the Great White North starts at the 49th parallel. 54°40' was the northern limit of the esrtwhile Oregon Territory, which Polk or Reagan or somebody wanted to claim back in 1492 (for either the Inuits or the Winter Olympics'). Thus Uncomely Denyse's IQ has further south to be north of.

Edited by Lou FCD on Oct. 02 2008,12:49

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"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

dvunkannon

Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

Posted: Oct. 01 2008,22:11

Quote (dogdidit @ Oct. 01 2008,20:22)

Minor note to dvunkannon: the Great White North starts at the 49th parallel. 54°40' was the northern limit of the esrtwhile Oregon Territory, which Polk or Reagan or somebody wanted to claim back in 1492 (for either the Inuits or the Winter Olympics'). Thus Uncomely Denyse's IQ has further south to be north of.

You're right, I was stuck on that 19th Century jingoist phrase, 54' 40" or Fight! I think Bush was ready to revive that chant, but tidying up Iraq took a bit longer than anticipated. Thanks for the catch!

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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

CeilingCat

Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,00:57

Quote (dogdidit @ Oct. 01 2008,19:22)

Minor note to dvunkannon: the Great White North starts at the 49th parallel. 54°40' was the northern limit of the esrtwhile Oregon Territory, which Polk or Reagan or somebody wanted to claim back in 1492 (for either the Inuits or the Winter Olympics'). Thus Uncomely Denyse's IQ has further south to be north of.

POTW!

KenGee

Posts: 53
Joined: Oct. 2008

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,05:53

Blinded by the tard again.
Latest tard from the Master http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....tionism
but if you change the searches to what people would really put in a very different picture.
http://www.google.com/trends?....&sort=0

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"Proteins are not produced by a chemical reaction, they are manufactured by machinery that is programmed through a base-four digital code. " Frilly Gilly on LIfe

Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,06:56

There can be no doubt about it. Christian upbringing results in sex crimes. BarryA needs to get on this pronto:

Quote

Teacher: Student, 13, 'was like a man to me'

OMAHA, Nebraska (AP) -- A former math teacher sentenced to federal prison for a sex crime with a minor says the age of the 13-year-old schoolboy she fled with to Mexico didn't matter to her....

Peterson was the boy's sixth-grade math teacher at Lexington Middle School in south-central Nebraska during the 2005-06 school year and started having sex with him in November 2006, according to court documents.

The pair disappeared in October, soon after the district's superintendent confronted Peterson about allegations of an inappropriate relationship with the boy.

She was arrested a week later in Mexicali, Mexico, after the boy made a cell phone call to his family....

Peterson said in the ABC interview that she was drawn to the boy, then 12, and thought to herself, "I can change this guy." She said her actions were wildly out of line with her upbringing in a Christian household.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Hereâ€™s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

Louis

Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,08:02

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 02 2008,12:56)

There can be no doubt about it. Christian upbringing results in sex crimes. BarryA needs to get on this pronto:

Quote

Teacher: Student, 13, 'was like a man to me'

OMAHA, Nebraska (AP) -- A former math teacher sentenced to federal prison for a sex crime with a minor says the age of the 13-year-old schoolboy she fled with to Mexico didn't matter to her....

Peterson was the boy's sixth-grade math teacher at Lexington Middle School in south-central Nebraska during the 2005-06 school year and started having sex with him in November 2006, according to court documents.

The pair disappeared in October, soon after the district's superintendent confronted Peterson about allegations of an inappropriate relationship with the boy.

She was arrested a week later in Mexicali, Mexico, after the boy made a cell phone call to his family....

Peterson said in the ABC interview that she was drawn to the boy, then 12, and thought to herself, "I can change this guy." She said her actions were wildly out of line with her upbringing in a Christian household.

Ahhhhh but was it a TRUE christian upbringing?

It's questions like these what cause unrest.

Louis

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Bye.

J-Dog

Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,08:14

Quote (didymos @ Oct. 01 2008,04:11)

DaveTard:

Quote

McCain’s a military guy so this is like battle planning for him. He’s just keeping the Obama campaign enough off balance so its vulnerable.

TARD, like Hope, doth spring eternal.

SIG WORTHY!!

Ha ha - I gots it now! (Thanks!)

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,08:17

Quote

17
William Wallace
10/01/2008
12:54 am

Men and women are different?

They lied to me at University.

SRSLY?? Not much of an empiricist.

University for me was some mumbledy-odd years ago, but I do recall spending a considerable amount of time engaged in empirical investigation on this matter. Some experiments were, um, more successful than others, but in the long run the hypothesis was more than satisfactorily verified. *ahem*

Looks like Willy Wally short-changed himself on his education. Perhaps he should have spent less time alone in the dorm, working on his "masters".

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"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

J-Dog

Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,08:22

Quote (dogdidit @ Oct. 02 2008,08:17)

Quote

17
William Wallace
10/01/2008
12:54 am

Men and women are different?

They lied to me at University.

SRSLY?? Not much of an empiricist.

University for me was some mumbledy-odd years ago, but I do recall spending a considerable amount of time engaged in empirical investigation on this matter. Some experiments were, um, more successful than others, but in the long run the hypothesis was more than satisfactorily verified. *ahem*

Looks like Willy Wally short-changed himself on his education. Perhaps he should have spent less time alone in the dorm, working on his "masters".

A Master debator in Micro-biology perhaps?

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,08:38

Quote (J-Dog @ Oct. 02 2008,08:22)

Quote (dogdidit @ Oct. 02 2008,08:17)

Quote

17
William Wallace
10/01/2008
12:54 am

Men and women are different?

They lied to me at University.

SRSLY?? Not much of an empiricist.

University for me was some mumbledy-odd years ago, but I do recall spending a considerable amount of time engaged in empirical investigation on this matter. Some experiments were, um, more successful than others, but in the long run the hypothesis was more than satisfactorily verified. *ahem*

Looks like Willy Wally short-changed himself on his education. Perhaps he should have spent less time alone in the dorm, working on his "masters".

A Master debator in Micro-biology perhaps?

function [bon mot] = cleverWordPlay(willy, master, debater, 'hard science', wanker, short-changed, microbiology)

Damn, it won't execute...

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"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,11:16

DaveTard:

Quote

Fun With Google Trends - ID vs. Darwinism vs. Creationism
DaveScot

Blue: Intelligent Design
Red: Darwinian Evolution
Orange: Scientific Creationism
Green: Theological Evolution

Any questions?

Yeah. *clears throat*

Why would you post a chart underscoring peak interest in ID at the time of the Dover trial, at which it ID was eviscerated and after which interest in ID quickly waned and returned to baseline?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Hereâ€™s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

utidjian

Posts: 185
Joined: Oct. 2007

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,11:29

Some good posts following that up indicating how silly the comparison DT is trying to make. I wonder how long they will last.

-DU-

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Being laughed at doesn't mean you're progressing along some line. It probably just means you're saying some stupid shit -stevestory

creeky belly

Posts: 205
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,11:35

jerry is not long for this world:

Quote

24
DaveScot
10/02/2008
3:14 am

Jerry

Get real and go on to something else.

How about you move along to something else? Let me know if you need help with that.

Zachriel

Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,15:31

Quote (creeky belly @ Oct. 02 2008,11:35)

jerry is not long for this world:

Quote

24
DaveScot
10/02/2008
3:14 am

Jerry

Get real and go on to something else.

How about you move along to something else? Let me know if you need help with that.

The saga continues.

Quote

jerry: Is this a threat? Such language does not help your case.

DaveScot: It’s more of a promise.

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Zachriel

Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,15:35

Quote

DaveScot: In a nutshell:

One claim is that Barack’s mother married an Indonesian ...

Another claim is that Barack, at 20 years old, was travelling abroad on an Indonesian passport ...

Another claim is that Obama was not born in the United States but was born in Kenya ...

And if those claims don't work,

Quote

DaveScot: There are more.

We got more of 'em, just like those.

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,16:52

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 02 2008,16:35)

Quote

DaveScot: In a nutshell:

One claim is that Barack’s mother married an Indonesian ...

Another claim is that Barack, at 20 years old, was travelling abroad on an Indonesian passport ...

Another claim is that Obama was not born in the United States but was born in Kenya ...

And if those claims don't work,

Quote

DaveScot: There are more.

We got more of 'em, just like those.

The wonders of just-in-time manufacturing.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Hereâ€™s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

stevestory

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,17:15

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 02 2008,17:52)

The wonders of just-in-time manufacturing.

LOL.

stevestory

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Oct. 02 2008,17:55

partially crossposted:

Quote

Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 02 2008,18:51
ooo, on Intrade McCain has slipped below 1/3rd.

http://www.intrade.com/?reques....ge=true

the electoral votes are right now polling

Obama 353
McCain 185

got-dang.

given the numbers above, how long before Davetard starts calling the american people unamerican, or dupes, or what have you?

Texas Teach

Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007