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Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,03:34   


From this UD thread originally linked by Kristine. Link

Maybe Bill, with that Templeton book grant, can help the good cardinal out.

  
djmullen



Posts: 327
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,03:43   

Dembski's current employer, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, is in the news because they:

a: Fired a female professor for being a woman.
b: Were dumb enough to tell her that they fired her because she's a woman.

"Sheri Klouda, who taught Hebrew since 2002 at the seminary, was forced out last year allegedly because she was a woman teaching men. She filed a federal lawsuit Thursday accusing the seminary and its president, Paige Patterson, of fraud, breach of contract and defamation.

Klouda, now teaching at Taylor University in Upland, Ind., was refused tenure at Southwestern and was told her contract would not be renewed because of her gender. Her contract was terminated in December 2006.

The dismissal has spawned unexpected public outcry and widespread media coverage, even to the surprise of Klouda.

Southwestern trustee chairman Van McClain had explained that the seminary is taking the "traditional" position that women should not teach men in theology or biblical languages and thus only men should instruct future pastors. The seminary follows the Southern Baptist statement of faith which limits the pastorate to men. Consequently, Patterson said that instruction of future pastors is limited to men."

"The suit contended that Patterson, who became president in 2003, assured Klouda that her position was secure. But in 2004, she was informed that she would not get tenure because she was 'a mistake that the trustees needed to fix...' "

She's suing, of course.  Fine institution you're working for, Dr. Dembski.

Link

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,05:34   

Quote (djmullen @ Mar. 13 2007,02:43)
Southwestern trustee chairman Van McClain had explained that the seminary is taking the "traditional" position that women should not teach men in theology or biblical languages and thus only men should instruct future pastors. The seminary follows the Southern Baptist statement of faith which limits the pastorate to men. Consequently, Patterson said that instruction of future pastors is limited to men."

I happen to be in full agreement with this policy. Theological knob polishing is a special art that can be effectively demonstrated only by those actually in possession of the requisite knob.

"But sir, I can't quite grasp a theodicy that argues that God operates outside a framework of time and causality..."

"Like this, my boy, like this..."

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,07:14   

Quote
Doctors don’t study evolution. Doctors never study it in medical school, and they never use evolutionary biology in their practice. There are no courses in medical school on evolution. There are no ‘professors of evolution’ in medical schools. There are no departments of evolutionary biology in medical schools.
So I don't need to listen to anything he says about evolution then?

  
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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,08:49   

FYI, over on the ReasonableKansans blog

http://reasonablekansans.blogspot.com/2007....ws.html

there is a thread about Dr. Egnor-amus, and a comment by none other than DaveScot extolling his virtues. You can also read about Dave's recent weight loss.

Enjoy!

Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,09:29   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 13 2007,00:21)
Pro ID doc gets reamed at UD:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....comment

TABLOID HEADLINE TASTIC, HOMOS.

Fron that thread:

Quote
What Dr Egnor is saying is that it is very unnecessary to medicine whether or not, for example, chimps and humans shared a common ancestor.

That is because that premise is not demonstratable in a lab nor in the wild.

Medicine, on the other hand, has to be demonstratble in a lab and in the wild. If not it doesn’t get released to the public.


Oh well... I guess we'll never know whether that accident in Chernobyl caused cancer and death, then.

Seriously, wtf is Joseph on?

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,09:57   

Quote (djmullen @ Mar. 13 2007,10:43)
Dembski's current employer, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, is in the news because they:

a: Fired a female professor for being a woman.
b: Were dumb enough to tell her that they fired her because she's a woman.

"Sheri Klouda, who taught Hebrew since 2002 at the seminary, was forced out last year allegedly because she was a woman teaching men. She filed a federal lawsuit Thursday accusing the seminary and its president, Paige Patterson, of fraud, breach of contract and defamation.

Klouda, now teaching at Taylor University in Upland, Ind., was refused tenure at Southwestern and was told her contract would not be renewed because of her gender. Her contract was terminated in December 2006.

The dismissal has spawned unexpected public outcry and widespread media coverage, even to the surprise of Klouda.

Southwestern trustee chairman Van McClain had explained that the seminary is taking the "traditional" position that women should not teach men in theology or biblical languages and thus only men should instruct future pastors. The seminary follows the Southern Baptist statement of faith which limits the pastorate to men. Consequently, Patterson said that instruction of future pastors is limited to men."

"The suit contended that Patterson, who became president in 2003, assured Klouda that her position was secure. But in 2004, she was informed that she would not get tenure because she was 'a mistake that the trustees needed to fix...' "

She's suing, of course.  Fine institution you're working for, Dr. Dembski.

Link

I ran that through my Postmodernist talkfilter to see if I could find any inspiration.

for your enjoyment ..or not.

Dembski's current employer, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, is semiotically in the penetrated space of tted Kennedy news because they:

a: Fired a lesbian professor for reevalution of Manichaeanism and being a wothe occuppying patriarch.
b: Were dumb enough to tell her postfeminist that deconstructed they fired her postfeminist because she's a wothe occuppying patriarch.

"Sheri Klouda, who taught Hebrew since 2002 at tted Kennedy seminary, was semiotically forced out last year allegedly because susan Faludi was semiotically a wothe occuppying patriarch teaching men. Susan Faludi filed a federal lawsuthe semiotic object Thursday accusing tted Kennedy seminary and its president, Paige Patterchauvinistic male, of fraud, breach of contract and defamation.

Klouda, now teaching at Taylor University in the penetrated space of Upland, Ind., was semiotically refused tenure at Southwestern and was semiotically tcounter poetical her postfeminist contract would not be renewed because of her postfeminist gender. Her postfeminist contract was semiotically terminated in the penetrated space of December 2006.

Tted Kennedy dismissal has spawned unexpected public outcry and widespread media coverage, even Jean-Paul Sartre and to tted Kennedy surprise of Klouda.

Southwestern trustee chairthe occuppying patriarch Van McClain the penetrated space of had explained that deconstructed tted Kennedy seminary is semiotically taking tted Kennedy "traditional" position that deconstructed women should not teach men in the penetrated space of theology or biblical languages and thus only men should instruct future pastors. Tted Kennedy seminary follows tted Kennedy Southern Baptist statement of faith which limits tted Kennedy pastorate to men. Consequently, Patterchauvinistic male said that deconstructed instruction of future pastors is semiotically limited to men."

"Tted Kennedy suthe semiotic object contended that deconstructed Patterchauvinistic male, who besubjugated president in the penetrated space of 2003, assured Klouda that deconstructed her postfeminist position was semiotically secure. But in the penetrated space of 2004, susan Faludi was semiotically informed that deconstructed susan Faludi would not acquire intersubjectivity tenure because susan Faludi was semiotically 'a mistake that deconstructed tted Kennedy trustees needed to fix...' "

She's suing, of course.  Fine institution you're working for reevalution of Manichaeanism and, Dr. Dembski.


--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,10:19   

Do these jokers have no conscience at all? ("Why would I want my doctor to have studied evolution?")  
Quote
In fact, I think it’s safe to say that the only contribution evolution has made to modern medicine is to take it down the horrific road of eugenics , which brought forced sterilization and bodily harm to many thousands of Americans in the early 1900s. That’s a contribution which has brought shame—not advance—to the medical field.

Yeah, let's talk about eugenics, you men of God (from the full article):  
Quote
Through force of will, Peter Duesberg essentially invented the AIDS dissedent movement, and remains its most prominent proponent. For years, he has maintained that, since antibodies are generally signs that our immune system is doing its job, anybody who test positive for HIV ought to be happy…
Does anybody remember here another prominent colleague of Duesberg's?  
Quote
Anthony Fauci…finally erupted. ”This is murder,” he said after listening to Duesberg speak. “It’s really just that simple.” Duesberg has come to expect responses like that. He was once asked how long it might take for the scientific establishment to recognize that it was wrong about HIV. He replied, “It took the highly established and affluent Catholic Church four hundred years to ‘understand’ Galileo.” He went on to say that it might take the scientific establishment, “the Church of the twentieth/twenty-first century,” at least that long.
Assuming we’re around that long. What a slander of Galileo! I really don't think that Galileo would have refused to look through a microscope the way that his opponents refused to look through his telescope.

Dr. William Dembski – Dr.! Dr.! – do you believe that HIV causes AIDS? If so, why don’t you go on record as opposing Philip Johnson and Jonathan Wells? If not, why don’t you come out and say it?

WinglesS, why don’t you “tithe” ten minutes of your life to opposing eugenics then? Because what’s going on in Africa is definitely eugenics! How about it, people? How about it?

After all I was told to find my soapbox elsewhere.

They make me sick. [Pun not intended]

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,10:40   

Wow Kristine:

the whole http://www.uncommondescent.com/religio....t-80254 thread is a train-wreck. DaveTard is now posting for Dembski?

Dembski: "Dave! I'm scared they mock my HIV denialism! Post for me, will you?"

With regard to charity, Atheists give proportionately more. Gates, Buffet and Soros take care of that math by themselves.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,10:52   

Just read that thread for the first time. I too bow to your eloquence, Kristine.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,10:55   

UD expands in anti-science base:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/science....swindle

when bashing NDE just isn't enough.

This whole global warming thing.. what's the motivation for making it up? I just can't see it. If, however you politics was funded by big oil....


Alan Fox - one day we'll share a nice bottle of Chateau D' Yquem, my freind.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,11:15   

For those of you who enjoy false dichotomies:



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,11:29   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 13 2007,04:55)
UD expands in anti-science base:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/science....swindle

when bashing NDE just isn't enough.

This whole global warming thing.. what's the motivation for making it up? I just can't see it. If, however you politics was funded by big oil....


Alan Fox - one day we'll share a nice bottle of Chateau D' Yquem, my freind.

One participant is claiming misrepresentation, I see. Martin Durkin is no stranger to controversy. I recommend Pascal's wager. What harm is done if we curb CO2 emissions unnecessarily?

Richard, bring the wine (2001 will be OK if you can't get 1990). I'll supply the fois grâs and trumpets. :D

Edit: you beat me to it.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,11:39   

Great minds think alike / fools seldom differ.

No can do on the fois grâs, Alan - I have ethical issues. I do a nice tarte tatin with pears instead, if that floats your boat / immobile floating command center.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,11:43   

It's getting ugly over at Teleological Blog. Now, Joseph is claiming that being human is not hereditary.

Joseph:  
Quote
Any chance of you telling us which gene, genes or DNA sequence is responsible for us being a human? Because if you can’t then you just admitted your claim is not based on science. IOW “human” is not a heritable “trait”.

Zachriel: That’s just silly. Being human is hereditary. Heredity is observed regardless of any particular theory of genetics.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,11:57   

Quote
Just read that thread for the first time. I too bow to your eloquence, Kristine.
Thanks, Alan. (But didn't you post at your blog regarding this?) Now you see what I got so upset about, and why I flounced off for a while.

I've listened to and read so much Dembski and I still have no idea who he really is or what the #### he really believes (I just listened to another sermon in which he praises creationism and denies evolution altogether. Yet he says he's not a creationist.) At this point all I want to know is: Does Dembski agree with Wells and Johnson that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, and what are the moral implications of his silence if he doesn't? It's a simple question. It's a question of morality, and supposedly he's the expert on that, not me.

When we materialists are all "looking down at our bodies" after death, and we're all like, "cool, now we can watch evolution from space," what will we be judged by? How about them? "Lord, when did we see you hungry or having AIDS?" That's in the Bible, isn't it?

Must have been the Muslim religion, I guess.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,12:04   

Oops.

Forgot about E-prime. "What harm is done if we curb CO2 emissions unnecessarily?" becomes "who loses if we curb CO2 emissions?" Answers on the back of a postcard.

Richard, they only force feed the ducks for 15 days before slaughter (not sure about geese) and they tell me the ducks quite like it. They don't even nail their feet to the floor these days. But tarte Tatin sounds great, though Roquefort cheese is said to be a great combination with Ch d'Yquem.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,12:09   

Quote (Zachriel @ Mar. 13 2007,10:43)
It's getting ugly over at Teleological Blog. Now, Joseph is claiming that being human is not hereditary.

Actually, he may be on to something. If being human was something hereditable, then how to you explain THIS!



Hey, there was a sighting in Austin!  I am going to be so bold as to predict that if lean, mean, killing machine DaveScot would be able to catch this creature, he could bring down Darwinism in a nano-second!

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,12:12   

Quote
I've listened to and read so much Dembski and I still have no idea who he really is or what the #### he really believes


Do you ever wonder whether Dembski has any idea what he really believes. He has the moral certainty of a chameleon, in my view.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,12:14   

alrighty we'll get a full bottle. Can't bring myself to do the fois grâs, epicurious as I am.

http://www.cellarbrokers.com/cgi-bin/search_master.php

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,12:19   

Quote (Alan Fox @ Mar. 13 2007,11:12)
Quote
I've listened to and read so much Dembski and I still have no idea who he really is or what the #### he really believes


Do you ever wonder whether Dembski has any idea what he really believes. He has the moral certainty of a chameleon, in my view.

It's okay if you do it for Jesus.

Speaking of which..

http://www.uncommondescent.com/evoluti....-denial

He's like a parody, except not that funny.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,12:20   

Quote
Do you ever wonder whether Dembski has any idea what he really believes.
Uhhhh - lemme see...how about all the time!

In contrast to Dr. Dr. D. [let's just call him "Doctor Doctor" from now on - and we need a stuffed animal image, too], this man knows precisely what he believes!  
Quote
Dr. Russell D. Moore, Senior VP for Academic Administration,Dean, School of Theology. The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.  Jonah 1:17-3:6; Matthew 12:38-41
"The Incomparable Glory of Fish Vomit: Baptism, the Great Commission and the End of the Age"
Gimmie that old-time *hic* religion!  :D

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,12:33   

Quote (Alan Fox @ Mar. 13 2007,10:29)
Richard, bring the wine (2001 will be OK if you can't get 1990).

Off topic, but I was curious if there is a guide to rating various vintages. I am probably not considered a serious oenophile, but I do love a good bottle of wine.  And I am particularly fond of Bordeaux.  I cracked open an 1989 Prieure-Lichine Margaux for some friends a few months ago and it was probably the best bottle of wine I have ever had. I'd love to put away a few more good Bordeauxs away and the local store has a reasonably priced 2001 Margaux in stock (can't recall the vintner) that I was thinking of buying if it was a good vintage.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,12:34   

Seriously, are we getting hysterical? How can one sort truth from propaganda? Check the source and read the original research (and who funded it), I guess.

“Climate Denial” — What’s Next, “Evolution Denial”?

Hasn't Bill got that the wrong way round?

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,12:50   

Quote
I'd love to put away a few more good Bordeauxs away


Do you mean this in the sense I would use it in "putting away" a good steak? If you are laying down wine, the older and dearer it is, the more careful you need to be about how it has been previously stored, and that the cork has remained intact. Careless storage has ruined many a good bottle of wine. If you can get Languedoc wines in the States, you should definitely try them. Good quality at a fraction of the price of Claret and mainly made to be drunk young [/plug]

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,13:07   

Quote (Alan Fox @ Mar. 13 2007,11:50)
 
Quote
I'd love to put away a few more good Bordeauxs away


Do you mean this in the sense I would use it in "putting away" a good steak? If you are laying down wine, the older and dearer it is, the more careful you need to be about how it has been previously stored, and that the cork has remained intact. Careless storage has ruined many a good bottle of wine. If you can get Languedoc wines in the States, you should definitely try them. Good quality at a fraction of the price of Claret and mainly made to be drunk young [/plug]

Sorry.  I meant put away as in laying them down for a while.  I mostly just drink table wine, or 4-5 year old American vintages, so I only have three bottles in long term storage.  I'd love to add a few more, but don't have enough knowledge of the various vintages to know which to look for.

Unfortunately, in Oklahoma, there aren't many high end wine shops and the current laws don't allow it shipped in to individual consumers.  The one shop I go to doesn't have alot of high end labels, but I will look for Languedoc.  I do recall that they did stock Red Bicyclette, but I suspect that isn't what you had in mind.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,13:17   

Quote
“Climate Denial” — What’s Next, “Evolution Denial”?

Hasn't Bill got that the wrong way round?
He's just denying his evolution denial denial. ("I'm not a creationist, but evolution is evil!")

It's all so way whack that I gotta look at a funhouse mirror to see things relatively straight again.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,13:25   

Quote
I suspect that isn't what you had in mind.


I choose wine like hifi. Can I hear that 50Khz note? Then why pay more. With Bordeaux, so much of the price is added by shortage of supply and speculation that I begrudge paying for an undetectably better taste. (Note to Rich: I don't begrudge someone else paying :D)

Also wine is best appreciated where it is produced. I was very impressed with Niagara wines when last there, but I wouldn't buy them here (if they were to be found, which they aren't).

I suspect we may be imposing on Steve's good nature. Happy to respond to a PM.

  
jeannot



Posts: 1201
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,14:40   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 13 2007,11:14)
alrighty we'll get a full bottle. Can't bring myself to do the fois grâs, epicurious as I am.

foie gras.
;)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2007,14:47   

It's ( fwa gwa ) illegal in Chicago right now due to humane concerns. I hope they do the same with veal.

If only we had dominion over all the animals, we could do as we pleased!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
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