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  Topic: Philo 4483: Christian Faith and Science, Honest questions from Dembski's students< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,16:09   

It's Friday afternoon and nary a flounce nor a meltdown.

What is it, Spring Break?

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,16:25   

Ooooohhh you bad guys are in trubble now. They are meeting in their secret lair, planning to inflict the ultimate smackdown on all of you with their super-secret-ID-mechanistic-dot-connecting-dr-dr-dr-theory. You should be shaking in your boots. Just you wait.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,16:45   

Quote (lkeithlu @ Mar. 26 2010,21:25)
Ooooohhh you bad guys are in trubble now. They are meeting in their secret lair, planning to inflict the ultimate smackdown on all of you with their super-secret-ID-mechanistic-dot-connecting-dr-dr-dr-theory. You should be shaking in your boots. Just you wait.

So in some fashion we could be considered to be on Double Secret Probation?



Louis (Louis)

--------------
Bye.

  
qetzal



Posts: 311
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,17:06   

Quote (lkeithlu @ Mar. 26 2010,16:25)
Ooooohhh you bad guys are in trubble now. They are meeting in their secret lair, planning to inflict the ultimate smackdown on all of you with their super-secret-ID-mechanistic-dot-connecting-dr-dr-dr-theory. You should be shaking in your boots. Just you wait.

More fart-noise videos? Dolls with nooses around their necks?

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,17:27   

Quote (qetzal @ Mar. 26 2010,17:06)
Quote (lkeithlu @ Mar. 26 2010,16:25)
Ooooohhh you bad guys are in trubble now. They are meeting in their secret lair, planning to inflict the ultimate smackdown on all of you with their super-secret-ID-mechanistic-dot-connecting-dr-dr-dr-theory. You should be shaking in your boots. Just you wait.

More fart-noise videos? Dolls with nooses around their necks?

More likely it will just be a few more minions sent over here to get extra credit in the philosophy class that isn't...

All Science So Far, indeed.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,18:31   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Mar. 26 2010,22:27)
Quote (qetzal @ Mar. 26 2010,17:06)
Quote (lkeithlu @ Mar. 26 2010,16:25)
Ooooohhh you bad guys are in trubble now. They are meeting in their secret lair, planning to inflict the ultimate smackdown on all of you with their super-secret-ID-mechanistic-dot-connecting-dr-dr-dr-theory. You should be shaking in your boots. Just you wait.

More fart-noise videos? Dolls with nooses around their necks?

More likely it will just be a few more minions sent over here to get extra credit in the philosophy class that isn't...

All Science So Far, indeed.

But thus far they've done absolutely nothing. I cannot believe even such as Dembski would give them any credit at all.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,20:03   

Quote (Louis @ Mar. 26 2010,18:31)
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Mar. 26 2010,22:27)
Quote (qetzal @ Mar. 26 2010,17:06)
 
Quote (lkeithlu @ Mar. 26 2010,16:25)
Ooooohhh you bad guys are in trubble now. They are meeting in their secret lair, planning to inflict the ultimate smackdown on all of you with their super-secret-ID-mechanistic-dot-connecting-dr-dr-dr-theory. You should be shaking in your boots. Just you wait.

More fart-noise videos? Dolls with nooses around their necks?

More likely it will just be a few more minions sent over here to get extra credit in the philosophy class that isn't...

All Science So Far, indeed.

But thus far they've done absolutely nothing. I cannot believe even such as Dembski would give them any credit at all.

Louis

Isn't doing nothing but whining the essence of ID?  Surely that is worth some credit for the purity of effort alone.

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,20:06   

They don't get grades at BibCol, just gold stars pasted on their foreheads.

Their mommies are so proud!

  
nmgirl



Posts: 92
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,20:23   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 26 2010,20:06)
They don't get grades at BibCol, just gold stars pasted on their foreheads.

Their mommies are so proud!

better than crosses branded on their arms.

  
Reed



Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,20:25   

Quote (Louis @ Mar. 26 2010,16:31)
But thus far they've done absolutely nothing. I cannot believe even such as Dembski would give them any credit at all.

Louis

I dunno, judging by Dembski's academic output, I'd expect "making noise without producing anything of substance" to be an A in his course. Or an A+++++ if you manage to whine about how the Darwinist conspiracy is suppressing you.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,21:39   

Quote (Reed @ Mar. 26 2010,21:25)
I dunno, judging by Dembski's academic output, I'd expect "making noise without producing anything of substance" to be an A in his course. Or an A+++++ if you manage to whine about how the Darwinist conspiracy is suppressing you.

Now what on God's green earth does making noise without producing anything of substance have to do with a fart?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 533
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2010,23:41   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 25 2010,16:02)
 
Quote (Tom Ames @ Mar. 25 2010,15:51)
 
Quote (Louis @ Mar. 25 2010,15:31)
   
Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 25 2010,22:24)
On average, I see what you mean.

Oh that's the mode of discussion now is it?

Louis

If there was any residual normality in this thread, you deviates have made it insignificant.

I find the standard devients are all posting today.

Well at least squares are, which would spline much.

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2010,10:59   

So, I'm pretty much right thinking that they are cowards?  Two posts max
complain
persecution complex
run away
don't answer any questions
run away faster
refuse to engage in reasonable debate
flee

You'd think we were vorpal bunnies or something.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Thought Provoker



Posts: 530
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2010,11:33   

In case anyone doesn't know what Ogre was referring to...

link

It is ironic religion provides the solution in the end, a la the "Holy Hand Grenade".

link

  
Thought Provoker



Posts: 530
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2010,12:24   

To any of Dr. Dembski's students who happen to read this,

From the syllabus...

   
Quote
(4) 3,000-word record of interactions with contrary websites, totaling at least 10 posts and giving URLs for posts — 10 percent positive. Due by last class meeting. This is where you get to mix it up with people on the other side of the debate over faith and science. It will open your eyes.
(5) Active class participation — up to 10 percent negative.


If it were possible, I would have like to have joined in this class.  I would have enjoyed discussing Francis S. Collins in light of the SCIENCE of Intelligent Design.  The question is, would I have received a negative 10 percent in class participation.  Or, more likely, asked to leave.

I have an Intelligent Design hypothesis that involves Quantum Mechanics.  Dr. Dembski himself said...
   
Quote
How, if at all, does quantum mechanics challenge a purely mechanistic conception of life? The intelligent design community is at the forefront in raising and answering such questions.
...
there is now growing evidence that consciousness is not reducible to material processes of the brain and that free will is in fact real. Jeffrey Schwartz at UCLA along with quantum physicist Henry Stapp at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory are two of the key researchers presently providing experimental and theoretical support for the irreducibility of mind to brain.
link

While some people here are mostly focused on discrediting the Intelligent Design Movement (and I agree the movement is worthy of being discredited) most of these scientists would be happy to discuss the science.

And, yes, anyone making extraordinary claims will be subjected to extraordinary critisism to force them to back up their claims.

You can look back at the threads I have authored on this forum to see what I mean.

Since all the Dr. Dembski's students are required to read and understand Francis S. Collins' The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief I think it would be a good idea to start a thread on this subject in case there are any who seriously want to test their ability to argue with religious skeptics.

Hopefully, someone else would be willing to moderate a  Francis Collins thread.  If not I will start it tomorrow (Sunday) assuming there are no objections.

In short, until you are ready to provide serious arguments for your claims, you leave us no choice but to make references to Monty Python and other entertaining activities; if for no other reason than to break up the boredom.

Here is a hint, don't try to change our attitudes or philosophical/religious outlook.  Either try to make your scientific case or be prepared to be frustrated.  Chances are you will be frustrated either way but you stand a much better chance making an impact on scientists by arguing science.

EDIT-minor cleanups

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2010,13:06   

I'll save you the time.

The Shorter Collins:

"Wow, dude!  Have you ever looked at a frozen waterfall?  I mean, dude, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY looked at it??  It's like, dude, awesome wow radical tubular boss cool."

And in transport news, delays at Elm Park.

  
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2010,13:25   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 27 2010,14:06)
I'll save you the time.

The Shorter Collins:

"Wow, dude!  Have you ever looked at a frozen waterfall?  I mean, dude, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY looked at it??  It's like, dude, awesome wow radical tubular boss cool."

And in transport news, delays at Elm Park.

Snork & snark

I have looked at frozen waterfalls (Catskill Mountains)

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
Thought Provoker



Posts: 530
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2010,14:41   

I had remembered hearing about an atheist being convinced of God's existance by a frozen waterfall, I just didn't remember it was Francis Collins.  It was in his book.

I will admit to being somewhat surprised Dr. Dembski chose to focus on Francis Collins, a Theistic Evolutionist who argues Common Descent is well supported by the evidence.

I am suspicious that Dr. Dembski might be presenting this to his students as representative of the opposition.

One of the stated goals of the class is to teach his students "...to write critical reviews appropriate to the debate between science and religion."

I can see the essay question on the exam now; write a critical review of Collins' arguments concerning common descent, defend your position "...with special attention to issues relevant to Christian truth claims."

It's right out the syllabus.

The interesting part about Collins' conversion process is that it manipulated theology more than science.

Please read the two pages out of Collins' book I can't copy and paste (starting with "Evidence Demanding a Verdict").

A belief that Yeshua ben Yosef (aka Jesus) is God was not universally a Christian tenet until after 325AD when the first Nicene Council met.  The biblical justification for this tenet is weak, at best.

Matthew 19:16-17
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So Francis Collins' assumption that Jesus had to be either God or the Devil was based on him accepting a popular Christian tenet, not independent thinking.

For example, Islam holds the bible is correct (but interpreted via the Koran). Therefore, Muslims generally agree Jesus will return during the time of the Apocalypse.  However, they do not suggest Jesus is Allah (aka God).

Is the Islamic version of Francis Collins just out of luck?

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2010,15:31   

Quote (ppb @ Mar. 24 2010,21:37)
 
Quote (cdanner @ Mar. 24 2010,17:55)
It truly is fascinating to read the majority of these posts trashing a person that many of you have never met.

cdanner,

I have never met Dr. Dembski personally, but my one encounter with him on his own forum showed me he is not interested in free and open discussion.

You will not get such treatment here.  If you are interested in talking science, there are many here who will be happy to discuss it with you.

I just hate this thread, it is so damn boring. Latest bore is cdanner, who is doing his best to avoid discussing science.

ppb, you echo my mind.

I couldn't care less about Dembski's credentials WRT to God, science, dignity, honesty or whatever - the same goes for cdanner, but I really would appreciate a few words about science, in particular WRT to the 150 years old theory of evolution.

cdanner, have you got any questions at all about evolution, something you want to learn?

WRT claims against evolution I am somewhat confused; some creationists say the do not deny evolution, it is just that they have a compulsion about inserting their god-of-the gaps into the theory. That's what Dembski has been doing for twenty years now with pretty little to show in return except for some $$.

I am not a scientist either but you know what, I've read books. some borrowed at libraries, others I've bought, and i also  have availed myself of the rich opportunities at expanding my knowledge and understanding by using the fabulous resource available on the web.

There's no excuse for being ignorant in the 21st century.

BTW, the ToE isn't something you can grasp intuitively like gravity or red-shift; it as an extremely complex subject even though it may look simple when explained as just the theory that mutation and natural selection is all there is to it.

There are megatons of facts and evidence supporting the theory; I suggest both you and Dembski may be a little less than up to par on the subject.

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2010,16:29   

Quote (Quack @ Mar. 27 2010,15:31)
You will not get such treatment here.  If you are interested in talking science, there are many here who will be happy to discuss it with you.[/quote]
I just hate this thread, it is so damn boring. Latest bore is cdanner, who is doing his best to avoid discussing science.

ppb, you echo my mind.

I couldn't care less about Dembski's credentials WRT to God, science, dignity, honesty or whatever - the same goes for cdanner, but I really would appreciate a few words about science, in particular WRT to the 150 years old theory of evolution.

cdanner, have you got any questions at all about evolution, something you want to learn?

Quack - I don't think they want to learn anything.  If they did, would they be taking a class from Dr. Dr. D?

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2010,21:00   

Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 27 2010,16:29)
Quote (Quack @ Mar. 27 2010,15:31)
You will not get such treatment here.  If you are interested in talking science, there are many here who will be happy to discuss it with you.

I just hate this thread, it is so damn boring. Latest bore is cdanner, who is doing his best to avoid discussing science.

ppb, you echo my mind.

I couldn't care less about Dembski's credentials WRT to God, science, dignity, honesty or whatever - the same goes for cdanner, but I really would appreciate a few words about science, in particular WRT to the 150 years old theory of evolution.

cdanner, have you got any questions at all about evolution, something you want to learn?[/quote]
Quack - I don't think they want to learn anything.  If they did, would they be taking a class from Dr. Dr. D?

I'm not sure that it's so much 'they don't want to learn anything'.

Instead, it really sounds like they can't even grasp the concept that there is stuff to learn other than theology.

It's why they always claim that atheism is a religion.  The old 'you can't not believe in something unless it actually exists to not believe in' argument.

People like these poor smucks have been so brainwashed that they literally cannot grasp the fact that something other than the Bible has a valid answer.  Everything in their universe must be interpreted through the bible... of course, that's worshiping the bible instead of god, which is a cardinal sin (number 1 of the commandments if I recall correctly).  

One thing I recently heard about really put this in the proper light.  Christians universally loathe Judas.  However, without him, the new testament would the be bronze age equivalent of a Billy Graham crusade.  Their Jesus had to die, Judas arranged for it to happen.  Christians everywhere should be praising Judas a hero, not condemning him.  One dead martyr is worth a thousand live evangelists.

Please return to the regularly scheduled none action from Dembski's chickens.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,11:35   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 27 2010,21:00)
Please return to the regularly scheduled none action from Dembski's chickens.

Dr. Dr. Dembski - The Philo 4483 Students await their next dangerous mission!



--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,11:55   

Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 28 2010,09:35)
Dr. Dr. Dembski - The Philo 4483 Students await their next dangerous mission!

Well, these are just kids. And they are fundy Christian kids.

In their bent minds, calling scientists, or non-creationists satanists, the Damned, liars etc... are not insults.

However, pointing out that they are profoundly ignorant with the intellects of boiled peanuts is an attack on God, America, and Motherhood.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,13:09   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 28 2010,11:55)
Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 28 2010,09:35)
Dr. Dr. Dembski - The Philo 4483 Students await their next dangerous mission!

Well, these are just kids. And they are fundy Christian kids.

In their bent minds, calling scientists, or non-creationists satanists, the Damned, liars etc... are not insults.

However, pointing out that they are profoundly ignorant with the intellects of boiled peanuts is an attack on God, America, and Motherhood.

One reason I'm no longer a Christian... everyone I've ever met is a hypocrite... including my family.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,13:35   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 28 2010,13:09)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 28 2010,11:55)
Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 28 2010,09:35)
Dr. Dr. Dembski - The Philo 4483 Students await their next dangerous mission!

Well, these are just kids. And they are fundy Christian kids.

In their bent minds, calling scientists, or non-creationists satanists, the Damned, liars etc... are not insults.

However, pointing out that they are profoundly ignorant with the intellects of boiled peanuts is an attack on God, America, and Motherhood.

One reason I'm no longer a Christian... everyone I've ever met is a hypocrite... including my family.

The ones I have met are terrific: (of course, most of the ones I meet are Episcopalians) loving, generous and genuine. I am not one because I simply don't believe. Can't change that, though I have tried.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,13:45   

Quote (lkeithlu @ Mar. 28 2010,13:35)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 28 2010,13:09)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 28 2010,11:55)
 
Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 28 2010,09:35)
Dr. Dr. Dembski - The Philo 4483 Students await their next dangerous mission!

Well, these are just kids. And they are fundy Christian kids.

In their bent minds, calling scientists, or non-creationists satanists, the Damned, liars etc... are not insults.

However, pointing out that they are profoundly ignorant with the intellects of boiled peanuts is an attack on God, America, and Motherhood.

One reason I'm no longer a Christian... everyone I've ever met is a hypocrite... including my family.

The ones I have met are terrific: (of course, most of the ones I meet are Episcopalians) loving, generous and genuine. I am not one because I simply don't believe. Can't change that, though I have tried.

OK, I'll admit most of the Episcopals I've met are OK.

Let me rephrase.  All the Southern Baptists I know are hypocrites.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,15:54   

Quote
Christians universally loathe Judas. ... Their Jesus had to die, Judas arranged for it to happen.  

I've often wondered why that point isn't being brought up more often; it is so blatantly obvious.

We should all be grateful for the wonderful gift of Judas' sacrifice; without that we'd all be lost.

But seriously, I consider the Judas incident just another of the many reasons to realize that we are dealing with myth; not historical fact.

The power and utility of the myth is lost on many xtians; you can't taste candy with the wrapper on. What's the secret of the myth?  It has after all survived for over 5000 years since it was invented, or maybe 'discovered'.

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,17:31   

Quote (Quack @ Mar. 28 2010,16:54)
Quote
Christians universally loathe Judas. ... Their Jesus had to die, Judas arranged for it to happen.  

I've often wondered why that point isn't being brought up more often; it is so blatantly obvious.

We should all be grateful for the wonderful gift of Judas' sacrifice; without that we'd all be lost.

But seriously, I consider the Judas incident just another of the many reasons to realize that we are dealing with myth; not historical fact.

The power and utility of the myth is lost on many xtians; you can't taste candy with the wrapper on. What's the secret of the myth?  It has after all survived for over 5000 years since it was invented, or maybe 'discovered'.


One of the early problems I had with dogma.

My religious upbringing was Episcopalian.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
DaveH



Posts: 49
Joined: July 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,18:11   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 27 2010,21:00)
Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 27 2010,16:29)
Quote (Quack @ Mar. 27 2010,15:31)
You will not get such treatment here.  If you are interested in talking science, there are many here who will be happy to discuss it with you.

I just hate this thread, it is so damn boring. Latest bore is cdanner, who is doing his best to avoid discussing science.

ppb, you echo my mind.

I couldn't care less about Dembski's credentials WRT to God, science, dignity, honesty or whatever - the same goes for cdanner, but I really would appreciate a few words about science, in particular WRT to the 150 years old theory of evolution.

cdanner, have you got any questions at all about evolution, something you want to learn?

Quack - I don't think they want to learn anything.  If they did, would they be taking a class from Dr. Dr. D?[/quote]
I'm not sure that it's so much 'they don't want to learn anything'.

Instead, it really sounds like they can't even grasp the concept that there is stuff to learn other than theology.

It's why they always claim that atheism is a religion.  The old 'you can't not believe in something unless it actually exists to not believe in' argument.

People like these poor smucks have been so brainwashed that they literally cannot grasp the fact that something other than the Bible has a valid answer.  Everything in their universe must be interpreted through the bible... of course, that's worshiping the bible instead of god, which is a cardinal sin (number 1 of the commandments if I recall correctly).  

One thing I recently heard about really put this in the proper light.  Christians universally loathe Judas.  However, without him, the new testament would the be bronze age equivalent of a Billy Graham crusade.  Their Jesus had to die, Judas arranged for it to happen.  Christians everywhere should be praising Judas a hero, not condemning him.  One dead martyr is worth a thousand live evangelists.[/quote]

Ahhh, Judas!

Leon Rosselson's Song

Sadly couldn't find the Dick Gaughan (definitive) version.

P.S. Never post, but *sniff* Love you guys!! ('cept Louis, obviously)

P.P.S  Uxbridge (aka Big Durex)

  
Thought Provoker



Posts: 530
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,18:30   

In the continuing tribute to Judus, from the Rock Opera, Jesus Christ Superstar here is Judus in the opening scene...

Link

EDIT - here is the Last Supper scene

  
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