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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > How Can a Conscious Human...

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thordaddy Posts: 486 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 30 2006,23:47    be comprised of 100,000 billion unconscious cells?

Tim Posts: 40 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,02:51    The whole is so much greater than the sum of its parts.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,03:23    Quote (thordaddy @ Mar. 31 2006,05:47) be comprised of 100,000 billion unconscious cells? I don't know. Maybe it is an emergence quality. What do you think?

Drew Headley Posts: 152 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,04:40    Quote (thordaddy @ Mar. 31 2006,05:47) be comprised of 100,000 billion unconscious cells? Provide me with a rigorous definition of consciousness and then we can talk.

PuckSR Posts: 314 Joined: Nov. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,06:57    did you just discover philosophy thordaddy? This is like the 10th time you have posed one of these "classic" philosophical riddles. How about this...can God create a stone so heavy even he cannot lift it? Come on...this stuff is a lot of fun to think about...but it doesnt have any bearing on science.... I can point you to several lively discussions on these topics, some of them are several thousand years old....

Drew Headley Posts: 152 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,07:04    Hey guyz, how can a computer add numbers if individual transistors cannot. I mean, am i rite?

cogzoid Posts: 234 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,07:35    How do you know each cell is NOT conscious?  You just jumped to that conclusion.  Have you tried listening to a single neuron?  I mean, really listening.

thordaddy Posts: 486 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,10:48    Stephen Elliot, Honestly, I have no idea, but it would seem that some of our cells are either conscious or create consciousness as a collective.

cogzoid Posts: 234 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,11:41    thordaddy, What is your definition of consciousness again?

PuckSR Posts: 314 Joined: Nov. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,11:42    Quote Honestly, I have no idea, but it would seem that some of our cells are either conscious or create consciousness as a collective. Well... i think the point has already been made that it is a quality of the collective ability. Transistors are an excellent analog...

thordaddy Posts: 486 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,12:56    cogzoid, My definition is the one in the dictionary that could be summed up as self-awareness.

Drew Headley Posts: 152 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,13:00    Quote (thordaddy @ Mar. 31 2006,18:56) cogzoid, My definition is the one in the dictionary that could be summed up as self-awareness. If your definition is self-awareness then do you think that this costitutes a consciousness? If not, why and how would you further refine your definition?

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,22:08    Quote (Drew Headley @ Mar. 31 2006,19:00) If your definition is self-awareness then do you think that this costitutes a consciousness? If not, why and how would you further refine your definition? Hey Drew, Interesting link. Damned if I have an answer though.

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,22:50    Quote (thordaddy @ Mar. 31 2006,05:47) be comprised of 100,000 billion unconscious cells? And how can a conscious human be comprised of 10^22 unconscious molecules?

thordaddy Posts: 486 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 01 2006,01:10    Drew Headley asks, Quote If your definition is self-awareness then do you think that this costitutes a consciousness? If not, why and how would you further refine your definition It may, but it doesn't matter to me because consciousness ALONE does not define human life.  This only poses a problem for those that determine and define human life based on consciousness.

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,01:15    Quote (PuckSR @ Mar. 31 2006,12:57) How about this...can God create a stone so heavy even he cannot lift it? That's what I was thinking. Ah dude, could, like, god make a burrito so hot that, like, he couldn't even eat it?

Chris Hyland Posts: 705 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,03:37    Quote it would seem that some of our cells are either conscious or create consciousness as a collective. I would say answer B. Quote it doesn't matter to me because consciousness ALONE does not define human life.  This only poses a problem for those that determine and define human life based on consciousness. I dont think there are many people who define human life based soley on consciousness.

Seven Popes Posts: 190 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,04:28    PuckSR Quote Transistors are an excellent analog... Heeeee! Bad pun. -------------- Cave ab homine unius libri - Beware of anyone who has just one book.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,16:55    Re "How about this...can God create a stone so heavy even he cannot lift it?" Relative to which source of gravity? Lifting on Earth would be a bunch easier than lifting off a neutron star. One consideration that comes to mind here, though, is that there is an upper limit to the mass that a stone could possess - if it's own mass is strong enough to collapse it's molecules, then it ain't a stone anymore. Henry

Caledonian Posts: 48 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,17:19    Quote (Tim @ Mar. 31 2006,08:51) The whole is so much greater than the sum of its parts. No.  The properties of the sum of the parts are not equal to the sum of the properties of the parts. Why do people always get this wrong?

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,18:20    Quote (Henry J @ April 03 2006,21:55) Re "How about this...can God create a stone so heavy even he cannot lift it?" Relative to which source of gravity? Lifting on Earth would be a bunch easier than lifting off a neutron star. One consideration that comes to mind here, though, is that there is an upper limit to the mass that a stone could possess - if it's own mass is strong enough to collapse it's molecules, then it ain't a stone anymore. Henry The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?" EDIT: Oh shoot, GCT beat me to it... -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,01:06    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 03 2006,23:20) The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?" EDIT: Oh shoot, GCT beat me to it... Ha!  If you weren't so busy burning down churches, you might have had a chance.

Chris Hyland Posts: 705 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,01:18    Quote The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?" Also, could he draw a triangle where the internal angles don't add up to 180 degrees. Edit: and no he can't use spherical geometry.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,04:22    Quote (Chris Hyland @ April 04 2006,06:18) Quote The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?" Also, could he draw a triangle where the internal angles don't add up to 180 degrees. Edit: and no he can't use spherical geometry. Hey, if Our Lord wants to use spherical geometry, certainly none of us are in a position to stop Him. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,04:26    Quote The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?" I started involuntarily laughing when I heard that. I've never heard that before.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,04:35    Re "Also, could he draw a triangle where the internal angles don't add up to 180 degrees. Edit: and no he can't use spherical geometry." Hyperbolic geometry, instead! Henry

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,04:39    Quote (stevestory @ April 04 2006,09:26) Quote The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?" I started involuntarily laughing when I heard that. I've never heard that before. I confess I ripped it off from the Simpsons. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Drew Headley Posts: 152 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,05:34    This thread is now the official annoying philosophical questions thread. This sentence is not true.

steve_h Posts: 544 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,07:54    Quote Re "Also, could he draw a triangle where the internal angles don't add up to 180 degrees. not enough information, do you mean degrees Kelvin or Celcius?

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,08:21    Quote (steve_h @ April 04 2006,12:54) do you mean degrees Kelvin... Um, I thought we were talking about triangles, not photon energy?

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