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evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,08:53   

GCT,

You are a glutton for punishment you incompetent baboon.

"Approximately three minutes after the Big Bang, when the temperature fell to a cool one billion degrees, protons and neutrons combined to form the nuclei of a few heavier ELEMENTS, most notably HELIUM."

See that part that says most notably HELIUM, right after the phrase .. form the nulcei of a few heavier ELEMENTS.

a few heavier ELEMENTS MOST NOTABLY HELIUM

  
W. Kevin Vicklund



Posts: 68
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,08:58   

Quote
My apologies I mean two protons.. thanks.


An actual admission of error.  Wow.

Quote
VED you are a dishonest liar.. plain and simple., as to Hawkings your selective quote is neat but dishonest. Which anyone can dttermine by reading the Hawking site.


Gee, when I read the site you linked, I see that VED is correct and you are the one mischaracterizing the great Hawkings.

Quote
"Approximately three minutes after the Big Bang, when the temperature fell to a cool one billion degrees, protons and neutrons combined to form the nuclei of a few heavier ELEMENTS, most notably HELIUM."

See that part that says most notably HELIUM, right after the phrase .. form the nulcei of a few heavier ELEMENTS.


See the part that says "heavier", right before elements?  Heavier than what?  Hydrogen, of course.

Quote
The next paragraph refers to electron capture.


And when a hydrogen nucleus (also known as a free proton or a hydrogen ion) captures an electron, you get a hydrogen atom.  See?  It's so simple.

Quote
The two protons are the nucleus of helium but that nucleus is not a fundamental particle like the hydrogen nucleus is. It has no other name in the sense of a fundamental particle.


Two protons and two neutrons can also be considered an alpha particle.  Just because something has multiple names doesn't mean it must be excluded from consideration.

Quote
Kevin couldn't you take that log by yourself. No problem, I am used to assisting evos with math and science.. their weak suits.

5.578639209968072    (plenty of decimal places for the wireheads)

Anything else you guys need help with today ?
I never worked for Enron either.


Actually, I did before I asked.  So you've now proven that you can perform basic math when requested - something I previously doubted.  But I can give you only partial credit, as you only answered the trivial part of the question.  20% is still failing in my book.  See, unlike you, I am a competent engineer, and I read the whole question or statement, rather than picking just the part that I want.  I also have the reading comprehension necassary to respond intelligently, unlike you.  You are a disgrace to the profession, and another example of the Dilbert Principle in action.

  
evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,09:08   

Kevin,

I have no doubt that you are a competent engineer but you are way too emontionally invested in supporting every aspect of the evolutionary paradigm to be objective on anything said here.

Clearly, the sentence structure in Hawkings writing refers to helium nuclei being formed and he does refer to it as an element, in fact a heavier element and of course helium is heavier than hydrogen.

That was the argument for the post it had nothing to do with the hydrogen first or helium first debate.

The previous GCT post where he denys Hawking used the term element and helium in the same context is just rediculous on the face of it so if you agree with that interpretation I just chalk it up to immaturity and emotionalism.

A competent engineer can read, is objective, self aware and honest... and you're not getting a passing grade.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,09:11   

If you could read (your own writing no less) then you would see why I harped on the word nuclei, Mr. 'Helium formed complete atoms after three minutes and was therefore more plentiful than Hydrogen'.

Are you now admitting that no atoms formed before about 10^6 years (or 300000, it really makes no difference on a cosmological time scale)?

Also, let's examine my post.  Did I deny the use of the words helium and element?  No, they are in my post.  If I were denying them, I would not have typed them in.

  
evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,09:19   

Unlike you people, I am at work and doing something creative namely putting together a class on top down nanotechnology for professional engineers and I may get in a hurry responding to three attack dogs with nothing to do but post on here but if you would like I can send proof of my grade of "A" in nuclear physics.

I really could care less about your opinions as I am quite secure in my own shoes.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,09:24   

Quote
I really could care less about your opinions as I am quite secure in my own shoes.

Um, then why are you here?

  
FishyFred



Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,09:44   

And why are you wasting your team on a forum when you should be working?

As the French say, "STFU and GBTW."

    
Ved



Posts: 398
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,09:49   

Quote
Unlike you people, I am at work and doing something creative
Wrong again. I'm at work doing some civil engineering right now.

  
W. Kevin Vicklund



Posts: 68
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,09:51   

Quote
I have no doubt that you are a competent engineer but you are way too emontionally invested in supporting every aspect of the evolutionary paradigm to be objective on anything said here.


And I have every reason to doubt that you are a competent engineer.  And you are demonstrably way too invested in disproving every aspect of what you erroneously include in the evolutionary paradigm to be objective on anything said here -including anything you yourself have previously said.  Furthermore, I support the scientific paradigm, of which evolution is but a small part.

Quote
Clearly, the sentence structure in Hawkings writing refers to helium nuclei being formed and he does refer to it as an element, in fact a heavier element and of course helium is heavier than hydrogen.

That was the argument for the post it had nothing to do with the hydrogen first or helium first debate.

The previous GCT post where he denys Hawking used the term element and helium in the same context is just rediculous on the face of it so if you agree with that interpretation I just chalk it up to immaturity and emotionalism.


If you were a competent engineer, you would have realized that nowhere did GCT dispute that Hawkings used the term element and helium in the same context.  Rather, having painted yourself in a corner, you trying to change the arguments YOU were making in a pathetic attempt to preserve face.  Everyone here sees right through you .

Quote
A competent engineer can read, is objective, self aware and honest... and you're not getting a passing grade.


You're projecting again.  I have researched every data I have put on this board prior to posting, even to the point of cross-referencing so that I don't rely on a single source.  You are such a poor scholar that you denied that a free proton can also be considered a hydrogen nucleus, even though one of your own sources states that they are equivalent.  You have been caught in several lies, and innumerous misrepresentations.  You can't admit to being wrong except on the most trivial points, and that only after much hounding.  You, sir, fail the above tests, not me.

You see, when competent engineers find they have made a mistake, they immediately correct it.  You refuse to do so.

  
evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,10:15   

Because your particular opinions are not important to me but some others are.

I wanted to see if the evos were still as egomanical, ill informed, cultish, unsophisticated and ill mannered as a couple ofyears ago.

I keep hoping that in the face of mounting evidence that disparages the very core of their ideas a light might turn on and a more open minded approach to public debate and education might prevail.

I also enjoy batting their brains out as is much in evidence here.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,16:23   

Quote (evopeach @ Oct. 19 2005,14:19)
...but if you would like I can send proof of my grade of "A" in nuclear physics..


How on god's green earth did you pass nuclear physics, let alone get an "A" in it, while laboring under the misapprehension that a helium nucleus is comprised of two protons? I've never been inside a nuclear physics classroom in my life and I know better than that.

Was your university in the Bahamas, by any chance?

Quote (evopeach @ Oct. 19 2005,14:19)
I also enjoy batting their brains out as is much in evidence here.


If you think you're actually winning any arguments around here, you're even more delusional than you think we think you are.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Weevil



Posts: 6
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,17:58   

Quote (W. Kevin Vicklund @ Oct. 19 2005,14:51)
Rather, having painted yourself in a corner, you trying to change the arguments YOU were making in a pathetic attempt to preserve face.  Everyone here sees right through you.

A competent engineer can read, is objective, self aware and honest... and you're not getting a passing grade.

You are such a poor scholar that you denied that a free proton can also be considered a hydrogen nucleus, even though one of your own sources states that they are equivalent.  You have been caught in several lies, and innumerous misrepresentations.  You can't admit to being wrong except on the most trivial points, and that only after much hounding.  You, sir, fail the above tests, not me.

You see, when competent engineers find they have made a mistake, they immediately correct it.  You refuse to do so.


Too right!  I can only assume he's a troll, as no one could be that pigheaded when caught in such obvious lies by people who can point them out clearly for everyone to see, saved on the net for all who visit to see. He's so blatantly stupid he's gotta be a phony!

He's already said enough in the past couple of weeks that I no longer have to look up any information to deal with his rants, I can just point to any of the several threads where his own words catch him in the lie and he refuses to face it.  

It was even fun for a bit watching him twisting to try to escape the lancets of truth, but he's run out of record and we aren't getting anything but repeats anymore.  Watching him floundering pigheadedly about with his head in a box is only fun while he's thrashing about, but once he gets his head stuck in a corner and just keeps scrabbling in the same direction, sinking in the mire all the while..  Well, it's just pitiful to watch.

Although.. Behe, Hovind, and the rest act amazingly like him, even to the point of being caught in obvious lies by their own words and still failing to admit it, or having one or another of their arguments shown clearly to be incorrect, and failing completely to address the discrepancy.  

The only group I've ever seen with less of a handle on the truth were the Scientologists - they'd be suing to keep pro-evolutionists from ever printing quotes from 'Pandas', Fair Use or not! Or they'd try to spam any pro-evolution pages off the net,  or they might just send out a CD to all their members with a 'Free Website' offer - and
filtering software hidden on the disk to install on the sly and just delete any objectionable words or websites. ( My handle ended up on their list, that story is no rumor! )

For the sheer gall of claiming they're telling the truth when the evidence of their lies is right there in black and white..  I don't know how they live with themselves, personally.

If Evo is a troll, he's probably doing a great job at getting lurkers to follow the links and read the arguments themselves - But really, we don't need it!  Evolution stands up just fine under its own preponderance of evidence, there's no need to create a caricature of the fundies to further drive people away from them.  They're doing a fine job of that on their own.

If he's -not- a troll, well...  *points and laughs*  Bwahaha-ahahaha-heeheehee-haha!  *snerk!*
Laughable is a good word to start with, but it goes downhill from there.

The lesser of two Weevils

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2005,17:59   

oh come on. it should be patently obvious to anyone that has lived more that 20 years that someone who feels such a desperate need to constantly spout credentials (phony or not) does this because they simply can't rely on the strength of their arguments alone.

let me just add that evopeach is the nuttiest poster i have seen on PT, in well over a year.  and that includes folks like JAD, Charlie Wagner, and Blast.

he should congratulate himself!

  
evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,03:32   

Eric,

I see all of you are still in denial anout the central point of debate so you can avoid having to explain how life came from non-life, whether hydrogen or helium, nuclei or atoms.

I see through you pseudo-intellectuals like a plate glass window.

I earned my "A" in nuclear physics through hard work and I really don't care about your opinions.

You people dwell on a simple typo and use it to avoid the issue that was raised initially and never answered because no one in the world has or can answer it because it never happened and ahundred years of effort have confirmed it.

Ridicule and trivial pursuits is not a sign of intelligence, but its all you people have to offer.

Lets hear the details of your demonstrable explanation to the abiogenesis question, big bang to the human brain if you like.

tick tock tick tock

  
evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,03:43   

Weevil,

Please reread my post ... idiot.

.."you are one of the attendant idiots who believe that a proton is the same thing as a hydroden atom because electrons are not part of atoms and are actually illusory non-existant and unimportant particles"

So sir like your other cultic evos you are the misrepresenter and liar. I never said a hydrogen nucleus was not a single proton. I said it was not a hydrogen ATOM unless there was an electron captured with it which your crowd has demonstrated did not occur until much later.

See just more intellectual dishonesty .. as usual.

  
evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,03:56   

Toejam,

Usually I don't respond to sex wierdos especially foot-sex addicts but just this once:

When your team can't understand the difference between equality and proportionality in Newton's 2nd law as he stated it and as documented by several authoritative sources ... that's ok with you I suppose.

When your team thinks SLOT has no relationship with evolutionary processes including biological life... that's ok with you.

When no one can even remotely address abiogenesis in the smallest respect other than the fallacy of defining away a problem in the face of a hundred years of effort by evos to prove its reality... thats ok with you.

Yes I call non-response, lying, misrepresentation and a complete lack of intellectual honesty a LOSING proposition for your team.

Do you suppose Tom Cruise and John Travolta are liberal democrat evolutionists or lean toward an ID perspective.

Their the most ardent Scientologists I hear about... you know Gore men.

I hold you in derision... laughable clown.

  
FishyFred



Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,07:27   

Quote
Usually I don't respond to sex wierdos especially foot-sex addicts
AhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAhahaha... uhhhhha...




AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!ahahaha. ahhhhhhh...

Thanks for the laugh evo. BURN!

    
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,10:32   

Quote
I really don't care about your opinions


now THAT'S laughable.

you clearly DO care about our opinions, so much so in fact, that you are willing to spend most of your supposedly valuable time posting here just to receive our endless derision for your false logic and moronic constructions.

I feel very sorry for you.  I can't believe you ever lived a life, because anybody who had wouldn't waste so much time here.

the only conclusion i can make is that you are either very young, or very old; if the later, you must be in a mental institute somewhere.

either way, you ARE mentally disturbed.

good luck with that.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,13:16   

Quote (evopeach @ Oct. 20 2005,08:32)
Eric,

I earned my "A" in nuclear physics through hard work and I really don't care about your opinions.

You people dwell on a simple typo and use it to avoid the issue that was raised initially and never answered because no one in the world has or can answer it because it never happened and ahundred years of effort have confirmed it.


Evo Dahlink:

I might have thought it was a typo, except that you kept making the same mistake over and over again even after it was pointed out to you and you tried to correct it.

I'm not going to address your central point, that there's no step-by-step explanation for how life arose from the primordial quark soup to geniuses such as yourself, because frankly watching you flail around in the comparatively much simpler morass of elementary particle physics is much more entertaining.

No one can explain how someone as goofy as you clearly are managed to become an engineer, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why would one expect that the only-slightly-more-difficult-to-explain matter of the origin and evolution of life would be any more amenable to detailed explanation?

I do love the image of you with your head caught in a box, struggling furiously, only to get jammed in the corner, flailing helplessly. Thanks for the great image, Weevil; it's a classic.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,04:47   

Eric and Toejam,


Actually I love listening to your temper tantrums because it reminds me of little boys caught in a lie and yelling and wimpering so the athority (that s me) might not whip them too hard.

Your circumlocutions, excuses and alibis for never explaining anything by means other than lies, unfounded assertions, stupidity incarnate and then thinking someone in the universe other than your fellow buttkissers are impressed is worth the time it takes to kick you to the ground ... 45 microseconds/post.

Now who go tell more people that equality is the same as proportional, SLOT and evolution are independent and unrelated principles, abiogenesis is a non-issue and no one thinks its important.... DNA is just a randomly developed molecule and the genetic code is just a sequence of chemicals and code is a misnomer.

Gas to Brain........ tick toc tic toc tic toc

My Pit Bull is named Fang and he is straining at the leash.

  
Ved



Posts: 398
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,05:24   

You're seriously in denial evopeach, seriously. I mean, so often I feel that anything you say about us is not true in any way, but accurately describes you. It's hard to come up with anything better than your own unwitting description of yourself. It brings to mind that old playground tactic, everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you - except I wouldn't wish your threats back on you.

I'm impressed with the lengths you've taken this evopeach parody character. By all means, continue to act like an a hole, I'm fascinated, but please, really, threats just aren't cool,

man.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,06:10   

Quote (evopeach @ Oct. 21 2005,09:47)
Actually I love listening to your temper tantrums because it reminds me of little boys caught in a lie and yelling and wimpering so the athority (that s me) might not whip them too hard.


evo! Whip us harder, Daddy! Yeah, the way you know we like it! Ooh, yeah, whip us harder!

You know, thinly-veiled homoerotic pederasty aside, you remind me a lot of Professor Erwin Corey. Remember him? The schizophrenic "World's Foremost Authority"?

You might actually be even more entertaining. Although you do have a tendency to drive the S/N here to 0 dB...

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,07:34   

Eric,

I had to look up that term not being a member of the homo club of evos on parade.

Tell me Frisco Fairy is evolution a required belief system to justify certain .. shall we say different life styles.

Its so telling to see all the boys herein holding each other up in the most glaring unsupportable claims.. but now that you spark the idea that would never normally come to mind its becoming clear why all boys are so totally chummy.

I just skimmed through the current Biology text used here on campus called , "LIFE" 5th edition. And what do you know an entire sub-chapter on how the SLOT governs every chemical reaction in biology from metabolism to ATP energy transfers... all of it.  You know that SLOT that has nothing to do with evolution.

Oh and then the so called definition of evolution: The change in genetic makeup in an "individual" or a "group" that is passed on to its progeny and either preserved or lost based on environental selection."

Now the operative part is "Individual" which is of course 180 degrees in opposition to the guys at talk origins.

I submit that between all of you there is not the remote possibility that you can show me or prepare a definition of Evolution in one paragraph that I cannot find a dozen totally contradictory definitions in your own literature within 72 hours of receipt.

Why? Because evolution has no definition, being a plastic ,meaningless tautology which can be and is defined on the fly to meet any investigative observation possible.

It therefore cannot be falsified, has no supporting data that is unchallenged by its own proponents as unreasonable and is incapable of being defined.

Show me wrong... give me the definition.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,08:06   

Quote (evopeach @ Oct. 21 2005,12:34)
Eric,



I submit that between all of you there is not the remote possibility that you can show me or prepare a definition of Evolution in one paragraph that I cannot find a dozen totally contradictory definitions in your own literature within 72 hours of receipt.

Why? Because evolution has no definition, being a plastic ,meaningless tautology which can be and is defined on the fly to meet any investigative observation possible.

It therefore cannot be falsified, has no supporting data that is unchallenged by its own proponents as unreasonable and is incapable of being defined.

Show me wrong... give me the definition.

evo,

Normally I wouldn't bother engaging you in an actual discussion of the Theory of Evolution, because it's clear you have absolutely no understanding of it, and worse, no desire to understand it.

But let me pose a homework assignment for you: give me a definition for quantum theory that's less than two pages long, and that contains within it a precise synopsis of the theory. And before you start scurrying around, let me quote Richard Feynmann for you: "I think it can safely be said that no one understands quantum theory."

Not that this has anything to do with the topic at hand (to the extent there even is a topic at hand on this thread), but it's been my observation, living here as I do in San Francisco, that the more homophobic someone is, the more worried he is that he might be, well, you know, a little swish himself.

Just a thought.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Swoosh



Posts: 42
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,08:22   

In The Behe / Astrology thread, I raised EvoP's bet on the outcome of the Dover trial from 1 month absence from this forum to permanent exile.  Of course, he didn't take me up on it.  But now that I think about it, I'm relieved he won't.  Every forum needs a troll to argue with, just like every king needs a fool.  Of course, by now a real king would probably have EvoP's head in a basket--there is a point after which even a compassionate king recognizes when legitimate satire has turned into senseless hatred and abuse.

But he sure is fun to have around in a morbidly anachronistic way.  I'd only caution that we don't let him distract us from real discussion amongst ourselves.  The kingdom needs tending after all. :)

  
evopeach



Posts: 248
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,11:04   

Swoosh are you accepting the original bet bacause I don't think anyone has gutted it up yet to accept period.

Oh and the reason I keep posting is that I do from time to time like to engage my ego by mentally stomping a few evos, democrats, atheists, socialists, losers and here I can hit them all with one swat.

As usual equivocation, hiding, assertion, insult and just about anything but the ability to debate rationally what appears from the evo team.

  
TheMissingLink



Posts: 19
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,11:19   

Quote (evopeach @ Oct. 21 2005,16:04)
Oh and the reason I keep posting is that I do from time to time like to engage my ego by mentally stomping a few evos, democrats, atheists, socialists, losers and here I can hit them all with one swat.

Ha ha.. you must be very insecure.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,11:29   

Quote (evopeach @ Oct. 21 2005,16<!--emo&:0)
Oh and the reason I keep posting is that I do from time to time like to engage my ego by mentally stomping a few evos, democrats, atheists, socialists, losers and here I can hit them all with one swat.

As usual equivocation, hiding, assertion, insult and just about anything but the ability to debate rationally what appears from the evo team.

Evo,

In your attempt to frame a rational debate on the subject of the evolution from "helium" to the human brain, you weren't even able to get out of the starting gate without tripping over your own shoes-tied-together feet.

Surely you don't expect anyone to waste their time explaining abiogenesis to you when the simpest concepts about the simplest subatomic particles seem to elude you.

Is your hair naturally orange, or do you dye it that way?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
FishyFred



Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,17:17   

Quote
Is your hair naturally orange, or do you dye it that way?
Ooooh! Ooooh! Do we have a picture of evopeach? That would be awesome. I would love to see who I'm arguing with!

    
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,17:30   

Quote (FishyFred @ Oct. 21 2005,22:17)
Ooooh! Ooooh! Do we have a picture of evopeach? That would be awesome. I would love to see who I'm arguing with!


Not that I'm aware of. But given his clown-like attempts to disprove evolution, I assumed his hair was pretty orange.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
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