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Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,20:27    "Smoke ID from this, you'll never go back. Trust me." -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,22:15    BWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA Is that thing connected to Il'Dembski's ass? -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,00:21    The least said about this the better: Quote 4 DrDan 08/16/2007 8:42 am Tard Alert! Hi Denyse, Thank you for the wonderfully written ?blog?. I think that what you have written gets to the heart of darwinism. As David Warren wrote ? ? why [do] so many people get so excited about an area of science that should not concern them. For most of these correspondents know precious little science, and haven?t the stamina to engage in detailed argument.? I am a physicist, and I have to confess that I know little about biology, not enough to argue the merits of Darwinism. I would venture to say that most non-biological scientists know as little as I do. Yet most would defend darwinism as though their eternal soul mattered. And I think this is the crux, for most people the argument is spiritual rather than scientific. This is one of my slogans (maybe someone else said it first but I don?t know): Never let facts get in the way of what we believe. Bob -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,01:03    Quote Yet most would defend darwinism as though their eternal soul mattered. D@mn! There goes one of those freakin' neutrinos again its travelling so fast, time is eternal, from it's POV. So souls are neutrinos or something like it---- test that hypothesis physics man. Dense will be gratified there is a materialist explanation after all. Quote And I think this is the crux, for most people the argument is spiritual rather than scientific. This is one of my slogans (maybe someone else said it first but I don?t know): Never let facts get in the way of what we believe. Is that a Roman Crux or a Latin Crux? *looks at watch* Is it Easter already? OK, that has to be a wind up......or maybe he meant 'Never let a good projection get in the way of your own self un-awareness'. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,01:24    Baylor, lord of the endarkenment: http://www.worldmag.com/articles/13256 -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,03:03    Slimey Sal says   Quote P.O. and I communicated on other matters outside of UD since he is a mathematician and I have an interest in math. He expresses his thanks to everyone here for a stimulating exchange. He will not be returning, and he is sorry he won?t be posting here anymore. Don't ya mean he quit just before he was "disappeared" Sal? Amusingly bornagain77 shows he is really a child. No, really a child!   Quote My computer babysitter will not allow the word de^ath to be typed so you have to insert de^ath after near in the address I listed to get to the site Link -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

djmullen Posts: 327 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,03:29    Got them GilDodgen time-line blues: ? Quote Some insights can totally change one?s perspective. One of those insights for me was learning that time had a beginning at the origin of the universe. (Oops, "beginning" implies a point on the time line, so let's change that to "a point of appearing.") If time came into existence, then the cause of the universe could not have had a cause, or a history, or a beginning, or a designer, because all of these require that the cause of the universe be located on the time line of the universe, which did not exist prior to the creation of the universe. (Oops, can?t use "prior to" because that implies time.) 1: "(Oops, "beginning" implies a point on the time line, so let?s change that to "a point of appearing.")" Oops - the beginning of a time line IS a point on the time line. 2: "If time came into existence, then the cause of the universe could not have had a cause, or a history, or a beginning, or a designer, because all of these require that the cause of the universe be located on the time line of the universe, which did not exist prior to the creation of the universe." Oops. Something external to this universe, such as a meta-universe, could create this universe and its time line. ? Quote Thus, the question of who designed the designer is meaningless when it comes to the origin of the universe. The designer must be "it is that it is," or if "it" is personal, "I am that I am." I realize that this twists one's brain into a Mobius strip, but it does make sense if you think about it. That depends entirely on what drugs you're taking and how much you're using. ?Just a word of caution - ID is a very potent drug that has claimed lots of victims. ?It feels great at first, but it soon begins to rot your brain and corrupt your morals. ?I recommend you at least consider getting a medical checkup and attending a few ID-anonymous meetings.

djmullen Posts: 327 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,03:33    Is anybody else getting a lot of extraneous question marks and other trash when quoting from UD?

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,04:58    DJ, Yes and it's not just quoting UD it's quoting anything AFAICT. Louis -------------- Bye.

Occam's Toothbrush Posts: 555 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,06:48    Quote That depends entirely on what drugs you're taking and how much you're using. Just a word of caution - ID is a very potent drug that has claimed lots of victims. It feels great at first, but it soon begins to rot your brain and corrupt your morals. I recommend you at least consider getting a medical checkup and attending a few ID-anonymous meetings. It's not ID per se that is the danger, it's the psychoactive ingredient, Tard. As anyone can see from the addled masses over at uncommondescentintotard.com, most ID users are just as happy to get their Tard from other substances like GWD (global warming denial), HIVD (HIV denial), and BBL (blind biblical literalism), and many if not most show symptoms of multiple addictions. -------------- "Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers ------ "You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,09:24    Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Aug. 17 2007,14:48) Quote That depends entirely on what drugs you're taking and how much you're using. Just a word of caution - ID is a very potent drug that has claimed lots of victims. It feels great at first, but it soon begins to rot your brain and corrupt your morals. I recommend you at least consider getting a medical checkup and attending a few ID-anonymous meetings. It's not ID per se that is the danger, it's the psychoactive ingredient, Tard. As anyone can see from the addled masses over at uncommondescentintotard.com, most ID users are just as happy to get their Tard from other substances like GWD (global warming denial), HIVD (HIV denial), and BBL (blind biblical literalism), and many if not most show symptoms of multiple addictions. You're talking about rapture, the ICE of born again evangelical Xianity, one roll of the eyes back in the head and you're hooked, the devils work. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,10:46    the Baylor lab is focusing on this!!! Quote the study of whether Darwinian processes like random mutation and natural selection can generate new information I wonder about a study whether Dembskian processes like street theater and hand waving-ism can generate new information.  I suspect it is too much CSI (complex-y sounding investigation). -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,11:04    Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 17 2007,01:24) Baylor, lord of the endarkenment: http://www.worldmag.com/articles/13256 Does anyone have the full text of the article?  I don't want to pay to read the whole thing and the free portion of the article cuts off right after the "Sternberging" of the Evolutionary Informatics Lab. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,11:04    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Aug. 17 2007,10:46) the Baylor lab is focusing on this!!!   Quote the study of whether Darwinian processes like random mutation and natural selection can generate new information I wonder about a study whether Dembskian processes like street theater and hand waving-ism can generate new information.  I suspect it is too much CSI (complex-y sounding investigation). According to Richard's link earlier http://www.worldmag.com/articles/13256 there is no longer any lab! Quote But some members of the Baylor community took issue with Marks' conclusions, which place limits on the scope of Darwinism and offer scientific support for the theory of intelligent design. These ID opponents, who remain unidentified, complained to Dean Ben Kelley of the School of Engineering and Computer Science, who promptly pulled the plug on Marks' lab and took down the accompanying website. bwhahahahahahaha. And this is from a university with a "distinctly Christian worldview". As yet, not a word has been said about it on UD! -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,11:17    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Aug. 17 2007,11:04) ?   Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Aug. 17 2007,10:46) the Baylor lab is focusing on this!!! Quote the study of whether Darwinian processes like random mutation and natural selection can generate new information I wonder about a study whether Dembskian processes like street theater and hand waving-ism can generate new information. ?I suspect it is too much CSI (complex-y sounding investigation). According to Richard's link earlier http://www.worldmag.com/articles/13256 there is no longer any lab! Well, you only saw the beginning of the article and your conclusion didn't match up with the articles title. So, I figured out how to read the article in it's entirety.Here is the money shot: ?Marks is free to resume work in the informatics lab on his own time. He is free to put up the website again so long as it includes a disclaimer that it does not represent Baylor's position. [Editted to summarize rather than quote directly.] -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,11:28    ID/UD Predicts: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-132837 Quote 72 Patrick 08/17/2007 10:52 am Quote Recall, now, one of the failed predictions of ID ? that the information content of functional macromolecules would be high, enough so as to support some sort of design inference. As a matter of fact, direct experimental measurements as well as the success of bioinformatics tools for identifying function in newly-sequenced genes tell us that the informational content of proteins is inherently low. Eh? I must have missed that one. Where did anyone in the ID movement make a specific prediction on the information content of proteins? Patrick knows that whilst ID could have predicted this, they only predict things after the fact. Praise be! -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,13:23    Quote (carlsonjok @ Aug. 17 2007,11:17) Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Aug. 17 2007,11:04) ?     Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Aug. 17 2007,10:46) the Baylor lab is focusing on this!!!   Quote the study of whether Darwinian processes like random mutation and natural selection can generate new information I wonder about a study whether Dembskian processes like street theater and hand waving-ism can generate new information. ?I suspect it is too much CSI (complex-y sounding investigation). According to Richard's link earlier http://www.worldmag.com/articles/13256 there is no longer any lab! Well, you only saw the beginning of the article and your conclusion didn't match up with the articles title. So, I figured out how to read the article in it's entirety.Here is the money shot: ?Marks is free to resume work in the informatics lab on his own time. He is free to put up the website again so long as it includes a disclaimer that it does not represent Baylor's position. [Editted to summarize rather than quote directly.] No doubt Salvador will be able to spin that up into a success... ;) -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,13:55    Quote (djmullen @ Aug. 17 2007,03:33) Is anybody else getting a lot of extraneous question marks and other trash when quoting from UD? That happens when quoting from a website that uses the utf-8 character set (with thousands of character codes), onto a site that uses a more limited character set (with 255 character codes), like this one. Henry

stephenWells Posts: 127 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,16:08    Quote (k.e @ Aug. 17 2007,01:03) D@mn! There goes one of those freakin' neutrinos again its travelling so fast, time is eternal, from it's POV. So souls are neutrinos or something like it---- test that hypothesis physics man. I once read a rather good French sci-fi novel (Les neutrinos vont-ils au Paradis?- Do neutrinos go to heaven) in which the protagonist's boss, a physics professor, not only (a) wastes his career on a flawed theory of the behaviour of neutrinos but also (b) apparently becomes a serial killer due to his conviction that the soul leaves the body in the form of neutrinos at the moment of death. All the lab's missing equipment turns up in the prof's bedroom.

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,16:17    Quote (stephenWells @ Aug. 17 2007,14:08) Quote (k.e @ Aug. 17 2007,01:03) D@mn! There goes one of those freakin' neutrinos again its travelling so fast, time is eternal, from it's POV. So souls are neutrinos or something like it---- test that hypothesis physics man. I once read a rather good French sci-fi novel (Les neutrinos vont-ils au Paradis?- Do neutrinos go to heaven) in which the protagonist's boss, a physics professor, not only (a) wastes his career on a flawed theory of the behaviour of neutrinos but also (b) apparently becomes a serial killer due to his conviction that the soul leaves the body in the form of neutrinos at the moment of death. All the lab's missing equipment turns up in the prof's bedroom. When the UDers get bored with the "evil Darwinist conspiracy" excuse for not publishing any lab work, they can use this one. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,17:27    Quote (djmullen @ Aug. 17 2007,04:33) Is anybody else getting a lot of extraneous question marks and other trash when quoting from UD? Trash?  It's all they write over there. (Except for those darned smart Darwinists and their logical arguments with facts and stuff.)

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,20:23    Quote (stephenWells @ Aug. 17 2007,17:08) Quote (k.e @ Aug. 17 2007,01:03) D@mn! There goes one of those freakin' neutrinos again its travelling so fast, time is eternal, from it's POV. So souls are neutrinos or something like it---- test that hypothesis physics man. I once read a rather good French sci-fi novel (Les neutrinos vont-ils au Paradis?- Do neutrinos go to heaven) in which the protagonist's boss, a physics professor, not only (a) wastes his career on a flawed theory of the behaviour of neutrinos but also (b) apparently becomes a serial killer due to his conviction that the soul leaves the body in the form of neutrinos at the moment of death. All the lab's missing equipment turns up in the prof's bedroom. I am such a fan of Polanski's Bitter Moon that years ago, I had an ex read Lunes de Fiel to me bit-by-bit, translating as she went. To this day, I don't know if I really liked the story, or was just smitten with Emmanuelle Seigner. Edited by stevestory on Aug. 17 2007,21:24

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,20:30    BTW, Vangelis did the soundtrack to both Bitter Moon and Bladerunner, one of the great movies. Wait, this isn't on the Book thread? Huh.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,21:54    Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 18 2007,04:23) Quote (stephenWells @ Aug. 17 2007,17:08)   Quote (k.e @ Aug. 17 2007,01:03) D@mn! There goes one of those freakin' neutrinos again its travelling so fast, time is eternal, from it's POV. So souls are neutrinos or something like it---- test that hypothesis physics man. I once read a rather good French sci-fi novel (Les neutrinos vont-ils au Paradis?- Do neutrinos go to heaven) in which the protagonist's boss, a physics professor, not only (a) wastes his career on a flawed theory of the behaviour of neutrinos but also (b) apparently becomes a serial killer due to his conviction that the soul leaves the body in the form of neutrinos at the moment of death. All the lab's missing equipment turns up in the prof's bedroom. I am such a fan of Polanski's Bitter Moon that years ago, I had an ex read Lunes de Fiel to me bit-by-bit, translating as she went. To this day, I don't know if I really liked the story, or was just smitten with Emmanuelle Seigner. Of course the probability that neutrinos weren't designed is 10-^^120 and the professor's name wasn't Les 'Eddle by any chance? -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,00:26    Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 17 2007,20:30) BTW, Vangelis did the soundtrack to both Bitter Moon and Bladerunner, one of the great movies. Wait, this isn't on the Book thread? Huh. DIRECTORS CUT ONLY, HOMO. "I've done questionable things. ... Nothing the god of bio-mechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for."  - Roy Batty. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,01:24    Denyse weighs in again: Quote The basic problem, in my view, is that Behe outclasses Dawkins. Behe is a working biochemist who knows exactly what Darwinian evolution has and hasn?t done. Unlike Dawkins, who has contributed nothing of substance to science for many years, he does not make Darwinian evolution a substitute for religion. So it is safe for him to know what it can and cannot do. Which sort-of implies that Behe has contributed something of substance to science over the past few years.  But if I check I find that ...   Oh, sod it.  You know the punchline.  But he did write this appeal to political understanding: Agarwal S, Behe MJ Non-conservative mutations are well tolerated in the globular region of yeast histone H4 JOURNAL OF MOLECULAR BIOLOGY 255 (3): 401-411 JAN 26 1996 The UD take on this: "The liberals are infecting our yeast!  They're plotting against good American bread!" Bob -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,05:38    For some reason I clicked on the Amazon Link Denise gave on her latest screed. Well, TBH I thought there would be a few funny reviews on her book but it's not out yet. The blub says Quote Many scientists ignore hard evidence that challenges their materialistic prejudice, clinging to the limited view that our experiences are explainable only by material causes, in the obstinate conviction that the physical world is the only reality. But scientific materialism is at a loss to explain irrefutable accounts of mind over matter, of intuition, willpower, and leaps of faith, of the "placebo effect" in medicine, of near-death experiences on the operating table, and of psychic premonitions of a loved one in crisis, to say nothing of the occasional sense of oneness with nature and mystical experiences in meditation or prayer. Traditional science explains away these and other occurrences as delusions or misunderstandings, but by exploring the latest neurological research on phenomena such as these, The Spiritual Brain gets to their real source. mind over matter - See James Randi and claim your million! Or do skeptics in the room make it stop working? intuition- Yeah, cos material explanations just don't cut it there! If you get it wrong, does it still count? willpower- Huh? I gave up cigarettes a couple of years ago, did god help me? leaps of faith - What, like "somebody will buy my book" "placebo effect" - A sugar pill contains god? near-death experiences - Documented after death experiences would be somewhat more convincing. psychic premonitions of a loved one in crisis - There are alot of people in the world and people worry about loved ones. Co-incidence will suffice. sense of oneness - Pass the bong Dr Dr Dr Dembski mystical experiences in meditation or prayer - Oh, so meditation and prayer are the same thing? Even if people who meditate might not actually believe in god? What does that do to the premise of the "book"? Gah. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

djmullen Posts: 327 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,06:33    Bob O'H quotes Denyse:   Quote The basic problem, in my view, is that Behe outclasses Dawkins. Behe is a working biochemist who knows exactly what Darwinian evolution has and hasn?t done. Unlike Dawkins, who has contributed nothing of substance to science for many years, he does not make Darwinian evolution a substitute for religion. So it is safe for him to know what it can and cannot do. Jesus H on a bicycle! ?First coffee gushes out my nose, then uncontrollable laughter, falling on the floor, roaring with laughter until my sides ache, fighting for breath, passing out and finally I wake laying in a puddle of drool and find that my irony meter has exploded and set the dog on fire. ?DON'T DO THAT again without sufficient warning! ?Maybe play a recording of the klaxons on those WWII submarines, or something. ?"Tard! ?Tard! ?Tard! ?Flood forward ballast tanks! ?Planes full down! ?Tard! ?Tard! ?Tard!" Now where's that dog extinguisher...

djmullen Posts: 327 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,06:35    Hmmm... now those question marks didn't involve cutting and pasting at all.  Did something change on the last upgrade?

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,08:11    Err, my apologies to you and your dog (and the ironymeter, I suppse) djmullen.  But I thought pointing out that the post was by Denyse would be enough of an alert. ?????B??o?b -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

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