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Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2014,10:29    Quote niwrad: In an electric circuit, a current flows in a load only if a generator provides voltage. Reciprocating Bill: * Lightning strikes. * Presumably, following the analogy, design can occur naturally. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2014,10:42    Quote (Zachriel @ July 06 2014,11:29)     Quote niwrad: In an electric circuit, a current flows in a load only if a generator provides voltage. Reciprocating Bill: * Lightning strikes. * Presumably, following the analogy, design can occur naturally. BA refutes you thusly!! Quote Now I suppose you threw this out there because you believe lightning strikes to be ‘natural’. But lightning strikes are not natural in the sense that they can not be explained without appeal to God. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2014,12:39    lightning strikes are not natural. If I had to hire somebody, and my only two choices were BornAgain, or someone with an active, ongoing crack cocaine problem, BornAgain would take a hike.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2014,15:18    nirwad proposes Intelligent Voltage. WOW.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2014,17:10    Quote lightning strikes are not natural. Course not. If they were natural, then why were churches picked on over other buildings (ones that didn't sport a tall spire), up until after that Franklin guy went and flew a kite? Henry

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2014,18:37    Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2014,15:18) nirwad proposes Intelligent Voltage. WOW. Can we please subpoena this genius for the next trial? -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

Driver Posts: 649 Joined: June 2011 (Permalink) Posted: July 07 2014,07:07    Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2014,20:18) nirwad proposes Intelligent Voltage. WOW. He's great. I thought they'd have banned him by now, but I suppose his stuff is as plausible to them as any of their nonsense . -------------- Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray [A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

Driver Posts: 649 Joined: June 2011 (Permalink) Posted: July 07 2014,07:33    KF: Quote If electricity is observable, so are designers, to at least a comparable extent. Such as ourselves and beavers. That really is a god awful analogy, but The Great Electric Beaver might be a fun deity to have around. -------------- Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray [A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: July 07 2014,07:34    I made the mistake of reading the thread started by niwrad at UD. It never ceases to amaze me that creobot lunatics actually believe the convoluted, insane tard that they spew. That creobots go to such lengths to try to support the existence of their non-existent sky daddy is a profound demonstration of their insecurities and mind deadening programming. -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 07 2014,08:12    Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2014,15:18) nirwad proposes Intelligent Voltage. WOW. Ben Franklin using his Leyden Jar charger. Quote When rain has wet the kite twine so that it can conduct the electric fire freely, you will find it streams out plentifully from the key at the approach of your knuckle, and with this key a phial, or Leiden jar, maybe charged: and from electric fire thus obtained spirits may be kindled, and all other electric experiments performed which are usually done by the help of a rubber glass globe or tube; and therefore the sameness of the electrical matter with that of lightening completely demonstrated. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 08 2014,11:43    Quote Emergence of Life – New University of Illinois Online Course – Starts Monday July 8, 2014 Posted by Eric Anderson under Biology, Evolution, Extraterrestrial life, Origin Of Life 1 Comment I previously mentioned an upcoming “Emergence of Life” course that folks here might be interested in.  Details here. The course has now been scheduled and starts this Monday, July 14, 2014, at Coursera.  You can find the course here. If you decide to take the course, I encourage professionalism and civility in any forum interactions with other students and staff, in what can potentially be a controversial subject. As I stated before: Quote    Will the course have some holes?  No doubt.  Will it answer some of the key issues that have been raised about the cause of the Cambrian Explosion, the infusion of information necessary for the emergence of different forms, how complex functional structures can arise via natural processes?  Unlikely.  Yet it should provide a good high level sense as to what the evolutionary story is, from abiogenesis to early life to current life forms, to life beyond Earth.    If any commenters at UD end up taking the course and want to post summaries of issues or thoughtful critiques here, I would be happy to help facilitate that.    Please, though, if any of you do sign up for the course, please do so in the spirit of learning, rather than to challenge or create controversy.  Be respectful and recognize this for what it is: the chance to learn from an experienced professor at a major institution. linky I can't wait for BA77's participation and cogent analysis.

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 08 2014,12:17    Quote (stevestory @ July 08 2014,09:43) Quote Emergence of Life – New University of Illinois Online Course – Starts Monday July 8, 2014 Posted by Eric Anderson under Biology, Evolution, Extraterrestrial life, Origin Of Life 1 Comment I previously mentioned an upcoming “Emergence of Life” course that folks here might be interested in.  Details here. The course has now been scheduled and starts this Monday, July 14, 2014, at Coursera.  You can find the course here. If you decide to take the course, I encourage professionalism and civility in any forum interactions with other students and staff, in what can potentially be a controversial subject. As I stated before: Quote    Will the course have some holes?  No doubt.  Will it answer some of the key issues that have been raised about the cause of the Cambrian Explosion, the infusion of information necessary for the emergence of different forms, how complex functional structures can arise via natural processes?  Unlikely.  Yet it should provide a good high level sense as to what the evolutionary story is, from abiogenesis to early life to current life forms, to life beyond Earth.    If any commenters at UD end up taking the course and want to post summaries of issues or thoughtful critiques here, I would be happy to help facilitate that.    Please, though, if any of you do sign up for the course, please do so in the spirit of learning, rather than to challenge or create controversy.  Be respectful and recognize this for what it is: the chance to learn from an experienced professor at a major institution. linky I can't wait for BA77's participation and cogent analysis. :p I'm looking forward to Gordon's detailed FIASCO calculations. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 08 2014,21:08    Quote I'm looking forward to Gordon's detailed FIASCO calculations. So long as there's no SNAFU...

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 09 2014,00:55    I admit I have no respect for creationists, IDiots included. From what I've seen of them over the years, they all share the conviction that they can ignore science. They don't need to learn anything of what science says about anything, they just cook up whatevever argument they need to support their faith and beliefs. Much in the same way as Robert Byers, is a prime example of what religious fanaticism does to people - it cripple their mind and make mine boggle. To me it seems like a scientist may have spent a lifetime studying a particular scientific subject* but there will always be creationists with no scientific training or experience willing to bet their immortal soul that they know better. A relevant comment at PT * I don't know if is true but I have read that a retired scientist that spent 20 years studying cockroaches, when asked what she'd have done if she could start all over again, replied: The same thing. -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 09 2014,08:07    I had to mention this. One of the pro-idiots on the Amazon discussion of Darwin's Doubt has spoken highly dear Dense. ()Discussion Linky Quote More than ever I can now appreciate Denyse O'Leary's statement, "If you actually go through the scientific literature, what there is show Darwinism: it's negligible, piddling, and none of the major claims are met." Even strident I.D. and creationist critic Dr. L. Moran in Toronto endorses her intelligence and wit: If Larry Moran mentioned Dense, then it was sarcastic. But since it links to a Biola video, then I call quotemine. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Driver Posts: 649 Joined: June 2011 (Permalink) Posted: July 09 2014,11:32    Quote (Quack @ July 09 2014,05:55) Much in the same way as Robert Byers, is a prime example of what religious fanaticism does to people - it cripple their mind and make mine boggle. Although it has helped feed him some loathsome beliefs, and shaped him into a FSTDT poster boy, I don't think religious fanaticism can take all the blame for RB's mind. -------------- Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray [A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 09 2014,15:50    Quote (Driver @ July 09 2014,09:32) Quote (Quack @ July 09 2014,05:55) Much in the same way as Robert Byers, is a prime example of what religious fanaticism does to people - it cripple their mind and make mine boggle. Although it has helped feed him some loathsome beliefs, and shaped him into a FSTDT poster boy, I don't think religious fanaticism can take all the blame for RB's mind. I agree.  If he wasn't a Christian racist misogynist, he'd be a racist misogynist. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 09 2014,16:46    Quote (JohnW @ July 09 2014,15:50) Quote (Driver @ July 09 2014,09:32) Quote (Quack @ July 09 2014,05:55) Much in the same way as Robert Byers, is a prime example of what religious fanaticism does to people - it cripple their mind and make mine boggle. Although it has helped feed him some loathsome beliefs, and shaped him into a FSTDT poster boy, I don't think religious fanaticism can take all the blame for RB's mind. I agree.  If he wasn't a Christian racist misogynist, he'd be a racist misogynist. And the Powers That Be at UD would have banned him years ago. -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 09 2014,23:00    Move it to the bathroom wall if you want but I cannot resist to post this visual interpretation of the famous Linecker quote. Who cares about Kairosfocus, Dembski et al. during these days? -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,00:07    Quote 11 Barry ArringtonJuly 9, 2014 at 10:27 pm AB, here at UD we regard BA77 as a priceless resource. The information he has amassed is astounding. That he would share it with us here on these pages day after day is amazing. If you don’t like his posts that is your loss. But let me suggest that you just skip them rather than placing your lack of curiosity on display. Commentary would be gilding the lily. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,08:02    KF is having a field day with the impossibility  of "square circles:"   Quote An impossible being would be such that it cannot be instantiated without contradiction in core attributes — as classically with a “square circle.” That is enough to recognise possible [unicorns] vs impossible [square circle] beings. Also, we see that impossibility of being, e.g. with a square circle pivots on contradictory core attributes leading to infeasibility. And on and on... I will admit that I am unaware of any classic problems relating to square circles. What is he talking about? Can someone clue me in? I am aware of the classic problem of squaring the circle, as in constructing a square with the same area as a given circle using only a compass and straightedge. This has nothing to do with square circles, though. Am I missing something? -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout �

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,08:11    Quote (olegt @ July 10 2014,08:02) KF is having a field day with the impossibility  of "square circles:"   Quote An impossible being would be such that it cannot be instantiated without contradiction in core attributes — as classically with a “square circle.” That is enough to recognise possible [unicorns] vs impossible [square circle] beings. Also, we see that impossibility of being, e.g. with a square circle pivots on contradictory core attributes leading to infeasibility. And on and on... I will admit that I am unaware of any classic problems relating to square circles. What is he talking about? Can someone clue me in? I am aware of the classic problem of squaring the circle, as in constructing a square with the same area as a given circle using only a compass and straightedge. This has nothing to do with square circles, though. Am I missing something? And is KF claiming that Jesus couldn't make a square circle if he wanted to?  Someone should throw the heretic in the volcano. -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

NoName Posts: 2729 Joined: Mar. 2013 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,08:39    Indeed. If he wants to assert that it is possible for potential core attributes to conflict in ways that guarantee the impossibility of the existence of an entity with conflicting attributes, he dies on the problem of evil. It is inescapably true that no Abrahamic god can be simultaneously all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good. It is inescapably true that transient attribution of any one or more of these core attributes means they are not core attributes.  Thus, the no version of the Abrahamic god is possible without abandoning at least one of the 'core attributes'. It is likewise inescapably true that  3 != 1 nor does 1 = 3, so the trinity is contradictory in esse and so inexistent in principle. Gordon doesn't really do logic at all well, does he?

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,09:01    I think he's going for if you operationalize "square" and "circle" then LNC prohibits them from being the same thing.  I'm not sure this is true. Messing with space time could possibly get you there? -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

socle Posts: 322 Joined: July 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,09:25    Quote (Richardthughes @ July 10 2014,09:01) I think he's going for if you operationalize "square" and "circle" then LNC prohibits them from being the same thing.  I'm not sure this is true. Messing with space time could possibly get you there? It is possible for square circles to exist using the appropriate definitions.  Just take the standard xy-plane, and define the distance between (x1, y1) and (x2, y2) to be the maximum of |x2 - x1| and |y2 - y1|.  Also measure angles in the normal way.   Then the unit circle (the set of all points 1 unit from the origin) is a square with vertices (1, 1), (1, -1), (-1, -1), and (-1, 1).  That is, it's a rectangle with four congruent sides.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,09:29    Quote (olegt @ July 10 2014,09:02) KF is having a field day with the impossibility  of "square circles:"   Quote An impossible being would be such that it cannot be instantiated without contradiction in core attributes — as classically with a “square circle.” That is enough to recognise possible [unicorns] vs impossible [square circle] beings. Also, we see that impossibility of being, e.g. with a square circle pivots on contradictory core attributes leading to infeasibility. And on and on... I will admit that I am unaware of any classic problems relating to square circles. What is he talking about? Can someone clue me in? I am aware of the classic problem of squaring the circle, as in constructing a square with the same area as a given circle using only a compass and straightedge. This has nothing to do with square circles, though. Am I missing something? Can God microwave a burrito so hot He can't eat it? (that's always been my fav version of that philo question)

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,09:59    Quote (stevestory @ July 10 2014,09:29) Quote (olegt @ July 10 2014,09:02) KF is having a field day with the impossibility  of "square circles:"     Quote An impossible being would be such that it cannot be instantiated without contradiction in core attributes — as classically with a “square circle.” That is enough to recognise possible [unicorns] vs impossible [square circle] beings. Also, we see that impossibility of being, e.g. with a square circle pivots on contradictory core attributes leading to infeasibility. And on and on... I will admit that I am unaware of any classic problems relating to square circles. What is he talking about? Can someone clue me in? I am aware of the classic problem of squaring the circle, as in constructing a square with the same area as a given circle using only a compass and straightedge. This has nothing to do with square circles, though. Am I missing something? Can God microwave a burrito so hot He can't eat it? (that's always been my fav version of that philo question) Is it still a burrito when it's nothing but neutrons at several billion degrees Kelvin? -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,10:37    Quote (Richardthughes @ July 10 2014,09:01) I think he's going for if you operationalize "square" and "circle" then LNC prohibits them from being the same thing.  I'm not sure this is true. Messing with space time could possibly get you there? I understand what he is trying to claim: a square cannot be simultaneously a circle in Euclidean geometry. That's a trivially true claim if you go by the standard definitions. What I don't understand is why he refers to it as a classic problem. Have ancient mathematicians racked their brains thinking whether a square actually can be a circle? It's not a hard problem. It's not a problem at all. There was a classic problem of squaring the circle. Classic in the literal sense: Anaxagoras and other Greek philosophers and mathematicians worked on it. It is a hard problem and it is well known. But it has nothing to do with the question KF is so enamored with. -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout �

NoName Posts: 2729 Joined: Mar. 2013 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,10:45    Consider it another case of Gordon's raging need for self-importance and his appalling ignorance jointly leading him to believe that it's a 'classic problem' when all it really is yet another sign of his stupidity. But surely any problem that Gordon stoops to bother with must be both classic and of world-shaking importance. Pipsqueak syndrome, iow.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2014,11:18    Quote (OgreMkV @ July 10 2014,10:59) Quote (stevestory @ July 10 2014,09:29) Quote (olegt @ July 10 2014,09:02) KF is having a field day with the impossibility  of "square circles:"     Quote An impossible being would be such that it cannot be instantiated without contradiction in core attributes — as classically with a “square circle.” That is enough to recognise possible [unicorns] vs impossible [square circle] beings. Also, we see that impossibility of being, e.g. with a square circle pivots on contradictory core attributes leading to infeasibility. And on and on... I will admit that I am unaware of any classic problems relating to square circles. What is he talking about? Can someone clue me in? I am aware of the classic problem of squaring the circle, as in constructing a square with the same area as a given circle using only a compass and straightedge. This has nothing to do with square circles, though. Am I missing something? Can God microwave a burrito so hot He can't eat it? (that's always been my fav version of that philo question) Is it still a burrito when it's nothing but neutrons at several billion degrees Kelvin? OgreMKV is no longer with us. -SteveTard

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