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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
keiths



Posts: 2040
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,21:28   

eigenstate weighs in:
Quote
@nullasalus,

Its like a moment from an Orwell novel to understand that you think posters like champignon and Elizabeth Liddle (and Diffaxial, Rob, Seversky, Nakashima and many others before them, and Im sure many after) are not interested in rational, civil debate when both of them have just been banned.

Anyone whos read Lizzie at all can see the black-is-white bombast in claiming that SHE wasnt interested in rational discussion, and that Arrington, or whoever banned her WAS interested.

It sure is a frustrating experience to get banned, as you apparently know, but Arringtons got a karma problem. He can wield the ban hammer as he likes, but in doing so like this, he has outed himself, and his blog as the verifiable first punch thrown, the party that began acting in bad faith. Thats really fine with me, Im getting mileage out of this with several friends and family who are Christians and pro-ID, and who suppose I should come here and engage, and maybe be persuaded toward a more positive view of ID.

I like what they see. At times, I have seriously wondered if some of the managers of this blog are part of a super-fiendish black flag operation perpetrated by cunning evolutionists; Arrington pretty much embodies the worst and most cutting narratives ID critics have to offer (speaking of which, by the way, is Clive Hayden still in management for this blog?).

No, I dont think so, but when the science crowd has Arrington, Dodgen, KairosFocus and OLeary as the vanguard on the other side, well, things are going to be childish in terms of the bickering and the mod/banning policies, but the broader message is pretty devastating to ID: ID is vacuous, a culture war cult that cynically uses sciencey prose and buzzwords to avoid the stigma that has now firmly been attached to more traditional forms of creationism.

The harsh reality from all that is that at the end of the day, people of deeply antagonistic views, but good will, and a commitment to a fair fight can get along for the good of everybody. Its interesting, contoversial, educational. But at some point, it becomes clear that bad faith is whats driving the interaction. There comes a point where all there is to do is mock. Even that takes the other party more seriously than they take themselves.

We have people here correcting critics on the Second Law of Thermodynamics, insisting that biolology and/or evolution is a violation of 2LoT. Multiple clear and patient efforts were launched to correct the nonsense. Instead, the nonsense gets doubled down. And doubled down again. Whats more, none of the IDers who know better can be bothered to stick up for some sanity on this.

Theres really nothing more you can do with that kind of proud ignorance and incorrigibility than to mock it. Mocking it isnt even half as hostile as the prideful ignorance. Its a lost cause as a matter of knowledge and science, either way.

Why keep posting, then? Well, the incorrigible arent the target. Its good just to put good clear scientific thinking on the record. It shames by example, without shaming, as Elizabeth has done with devastating grace and patience, here.

If Arrington is not aware, though, it is childish outbursts and self-indulgences like this latest display that not only engender the mocking  the hopeless understanding that Arrington is beyond the pale  it necessitates it. Arrington laments the incivility, and then puts on a spectacular display demonstrating why mocking and harshly uncivil taunts and denunciations are too good for him, and to a sobering extent, this blog.


--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don’t belong there and thoughts into my mind that don’t belong there. -- KF

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,21:31   

these morons want to destroy science and replace it with a statue of jesus holding the king james bible and accuse anyone who thinks differently of wanting to march thumpers to the guillotine, conspiring to fence off academic positions or scientific publications from IDiots, poisoning the culture, being dishonest gay baby killers who don't love their granmaws

and they have the nuts to demand civility.  

jesus christ in a chalice and ball gag i knew they were stupid but that is about the dumbest fucking thing i could have ever imagined.

"punch in the nose" rule says Mr Leathers, who is so cognitively dissonant that he lies to himself, pretending to imagine he would have the temerity to launch into one of his finger sniffing penis tugging sanctimonious diatribes in the presence of anyone with the power of locomotion and not expect to have his mouth mashed in

gordon i would like to see you fight dave scot

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
The whole truth



Posts: 972
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,21:33   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 10 2012,16:21)
Null:
   
Quote
Talking up the importance of civility and tolerance in conversation in one place, and then tolerating or encouraging photoshop mockery and vile, personal insults in another place (public even), is entirely relevant. It illustrates that there’s hypocrisy in play, a lack of mutual respect, and frankly it reflects poorly on someone’s character.

Don't get your panties in a bunch dear.

Photoshop mockery! For shame!

http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/id...._...._of_law

Hey wait a second, didn't he say that we are colluding? Now he says it's "public even".

colluding:

col·lude (k -l d ). intr.v. col·lud·ed, col·lud·ing, col·ludes. To act together secretly to achieve a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose; conspire.

Hey nullsallus null-and-void, unlike you cowardly hypocrites in the UD sanctuary for IDiots, no one here is pretending to be one thing but actually being another. No one here is being deceitful or fraudulent (or illegal). It's you two-faced, lying, self-righteous, arrogant tin gods who are deceitful and fraudulent.

What really bothers you and your fellow cowards is that people here are knowledgeable, up front, and unhindered by draconian, one-sided moderation, and you chickenshits NEED the protection of draconian, one-sided moderation because you are pushing a deceitful, fraudulent, religious and political agenda that is even illegal at times (remember Dover, etc.?) and because your non-evidential, fairy tale based arguments won't stand up against open and honest challenges.

Another thing that really bothers you is that you now have few, if any, non-IDiot victims to pick on within your sanctuary and you're afraid that you'll have to step out of that sanctuary and fight a fair fight if you want to debate your bald assertions. Poor baby, you've just lost most or all of your opportunity to be a UD bully.

By the way, how does barry-the-dick-head-shyster like my depictions of him? I think that they're a rather good likeness of him, along with the ones on my site.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4230
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,21:34   

Eigenstate is intent on joining the conflagration:
 
Quote
If Arrington is not aware, though, it is childish outbursts and self-indulgences like this latest display that not only engender the mocking — the hopeless understanding that Arrington is beyond the pale — it necessitates it. Arrington laments the incivility, and then puts on a spectacular display demonstrating why mocking and harshly uncivil taunts and denunciations are too good for him, and to a sobering extent, this blog.

Won't be long.

ETA: Keiths got there first.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 879
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,21:38   

Gil, February 9, 2012 at 9:25 pm:
Quote
This poor soul must be mentally ill, or perhaps a drug addict.

Gil, February 10, 2012 at 7:33 pm:
Quote
The drug is Darwinist dogma. It shuts down one’s reasoning faculties.

So that's what he meant. Hey Gil, I still mean what I originally did when I called you an asshole up-thread.

--------------
“To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.” - Isaac Asimov

"Grow up, assface" - Joe G., grown up ID spokesperson, Sandwalk, April 2014

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,21:46   

ah i see when we were talking about how "important" UD was i forgot yall were all funny talking foreigners that pronounced the shit wrong

around here it's said "impotent"

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
The whole truth



Posts: 972
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,21:47   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 10 2012,18:43)
Eric Anderson gently tells Barry that he's being an idiot:
 
Quote
Barry:

I have great respect for your thoughtful views and appreciate the many hours you spend raising issues and working here at UD.

I think most people can see the failure of DrRECs and Elizabeths attempts to whitewash the regular and repeated tactics employed by some in the scientific community and turn them into something more benign than the naked appeal to authority that they are.

Further, I think most people realize that the world has a long history of outsiders (philosophers, lawyers, analysts, commentators, journalists, etc.) pointing out serious problems in certain fields/industries/occupations. Therefore, the idea that a non-scientist is not qualified to opine on how science operates is just absurd (and is itself perhaps a sub-category of the appeal to authority fallacy). As a result, DrRECs recent statements seem to be not only naive, but completely against the spirit of truth seeking, whether in the scientific arena or any other.

I think most readers realize that DrREC and Elizabeth are either ignoring or sweeping under the rug the appeal to authority issues you appropriately raised.

However, I would certainly hope that DrREC or Elizabeth or anyone else who shares similar views would not be banned. Despite what we might see as absurd arguments, silly side roads or blatant failure to consider the evidence  and the resulting frustrations  I think DrREC and Elizabeth have contributed significantly to the discussions and have caused all of us to be on our toes and raise our debating ability.

Just a humble appeal on my part to not let a temporary frustration (or even a temporary site policy violation, if that is what is perceived) be the basis for a ban.


He just wants some punching bags back. If he actually had any respect for the people who were banned, he wouldn't have devoted most of his comments to berating them.

Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone would want to go back there, even if they could. The only way to get them to really open up the site is to boycott them until they do. They know that their site will die without direct involvement by non-IDiots.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4230
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,21:54   

Quote (Ptaylor @ Feb. 10 2012,22:38)
Gil, February 9, 2012 at 9:25 pm:
   
Quote
This poor soul must be mentally ill, or perhaps a drug addict.

Gil, February 10, 2012 at 7:33 pm:
   
Quote
The drug is Darwinist dogma. It shuts down one’s reasoning faculties.

So that's what he meant. Hey Gil, I still mean what I originally did when I called you an asshole up-thread.

Yes, and all DrRec meant was that Barry had arrogated for himself the sweet sensation of imminent tears.

It's all just a misunderstanding!

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,22:27   

Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 10 2012,22:47)
Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone would want to go back there, even if they could.

are you shitting me?  this is the best thing to happen in that shitbucket in weeks.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Woodbine



Posts: 746
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,22:47   

It's only the evil Darwinists keeping the lights on over there. Left to their own devices the front page spammathon of aggregated news articles are lucky to attract any comments at all.

It's only when those spawns of materialistic nihilism happen to post that any activity is recorded. If only we can TARDEvac Febble, Petrushka etc we could watch the whole wretched bunch eat each other.

  
olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2012,23:03   

Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 10 2012,22:47)
It's only the evil Darwinists keeping the lights on over there. Left to their own devices the front page spammathon of aggregated news articles are lucky to attract any comments at all.

It's only when those spawns of materialistic nihilism happen to post that any activity is recorded. If only we can TARDEvac Febble, Petrushka etc we could watch the whole wretched bunch eat each other.

Seconded.

Look at Telic Thoughts. So vibrant after the critics left it!

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
sparc



Posts: 1674
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,00:35   

Talking about cowardice: The DI prefers to preach to the choir again:  
Quote
Admission Requirements: You must be currently enrolled in a college or university as a junior, senior, or graduate student. Required application materials include (1) a resume/cv, (2) a copy of your academic transcript, (3) a short statement of your interest in intelligent design and its perceived relationship to your career plans and field of study, and (4) either a letter of recommendation from a professor who knows your work and is friendly toward ID, or a phone interview with the seminar director.

I am afraid, though, that all position that could be considered in career plans will stay occupied for ages. What else should clowns like Dembski, Luskin, Axe et al. should do?

ETA link.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
k.e..



Posts: 2838
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,01:09   

Quote (Grunty @ Feb. 11 2012,00:56)
I haven't posted at UD for a long time, it was a waste of effort with those bozos. So when the decent posters were booted out by Colorado's answer to Ernst Rohm, I thought I would take a finla bow. Here is what I wrote - I doubt it will see the light of day.

"Arrington says:

"Bullwinkle says he is hopelessly befuddled as to the difference between the obscenity directed at me and the phrase “sad and pathetic.” In light of that I decided he would be happier not commenting on this site. Anyone else want to push me today?"

and

"UD: Doveton’s out. Anyone else?"

I was always taught that the way to handle bullies is to stand up to them. You are a bully, Arrington, so I'm taking you on. You are also a gutless coward, like DaveScot before you. It's typical of your sort, you're another pocket Hitler - give you a little power and it goes to your head. Dr REC turns out to be right, you are just an arrogant little prick.

All the decent posters have been banned now, so there's no point hanging around here. It's now just a squalid little ID ghetto. Carry on with your idiotic fantasies and incestuous theology."

HEY GIRLYMAN.

HOW DARE YOU COMPARE ME TO THAT DICKWAD ARRINGTON.

HE'S MORE OF A FLEA COMPARED WITH THAT ROBBERS DOG DENISE.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
k.e..



Posts: 2838
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,01:13   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 11 2012,01:46)
Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 09 2012,11:47)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 09 2012,10:58)
it was on the BW during the feminazi war, maybe not so much a flounce but a "screw you guys i am going home".  i think after someone compared him to KF for typing too much or something.  a pity, i would read it even if i disagreed simply because that fella really knew how to swear

Things that might get Lous to post again:

5 - invidious comparison of rugby and (American) football
4 - lolcat involving a Welsh goat in estrus
3 - lolcat involving Lous' Mum and Tarden Chatterbox
2 - revival of Mornington Crescent thread
1 - bonafide FtK posting

I realize that 4 and 3 overlap significantly.

it's too bad that a gen-u-ine friday meltdown couldn't coax him down out of the tree

LOUIS PLEASE COME BACK YOU CAN HAVE THE FIRST SEVEN TURNS JAMMING JAMMER

YEAH LOUIS I'LL GIVE YOU TWO POSTS TO MY ONE ABOUT YOUR SHORTCOMINGS/THIN SKIN

HEHEHEHEHEHEHE

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
keiths



Posts: 2040
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,01:41   

Meanwhile, StephenB floats along in his own personal universe:
Quote (StephenB @ Feb 11 2012, 01:19)
The UD blog does not exist so that anti-ID partisans can push their personal agendas. To be sure, visitors are welcome to comment, rattle our cages, or even bore us, but they are not welcome to make demonstrably false statements or indulge in reckless character assassinations just for the hell of it. At the very least, they should prepare themselves for dialogue by learning something about the subject matter before they start posting.
Too often, our adversaries not only fail to familiarize themselves with the FAQ questions, they refuse to study them even after being called out for their preparatory deficiencies. As such, they never acquire the minimum amount of information needed for a meaningful and rational discussion. I know this is true because of the texture and quality of some of the comments we have to entertain. If all those who were recently banned had prepared themselves in this modest way, I suspect that some of them would have been too valuable to be sent packing. On the contrary, they spent most of their time, obfuscating, evading the main issue, and setting strawmen on fire. This gets old.

To me, the most uncivil thing one person can do is to waste another person’s time. For the most part, our critics do not understand the ID paradigm they presume to critique and, worse, they are not even interested in learning about it. How often must we explain that ID science does not depend on religion? How many times should we have to point out that ID does not affirm or deny evolution?” How often must we differentiate between the ID “movement,” which is a cultural phenomenon, and ID science, which is a methodology for observing data and drawing inferences? All this information is readily available. People who keep conflating these issues, either out of willful ignorance or malice, are uncivil because they are stealing our time and cheating us out of the opportunity to fine tune our knowledge through meaningful dialogue.


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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don’t belong there and thoughts into my mind that don’t belong there. -- KF

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,04:36   

As this seems to be the only place linked to from UD that my UD friends might see, here is the link to my blog:

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....w....p....wp

And a message:

I've enjoyed discussing stuff with many of you, and would be delighted to see you there, if you'd like to drop by, as some of you already have.

As for the suggestion from nullasalus that I deserve my banning at UD because I have been consorting with tax collectors and sinners here, well - do I need to quote my source on that?

But fwiw - what I object to is not insulting words, but hypocrisy.  Banning and outing one person for using the epithet "arrogant prick" yet endlessly tolerating another for using epithets that include "wanker", "moron", and "spaz".  Complaining about one person NOT objecting to rude words on another site, yet endlessly tolerating someone who uses those exact same rude words on their own.

Accusing one person of tarring all believers with the brush of Fred Phelps or the 9/11 bombers, while tarring all atheists with the brush of Lewontin, Provine and Dawkins.  

Finding "arrogant prick" beyond the pale, but "morally abnormal" just fine.

My own position is that what matters is not the language, but whether you take people seriously.  I took the posters at UD seriously, and still do.

If you want to continue those serious conversations, I hope you will visit my blog, and maybe make yourselves at home. I won't ban anyone, and I'll only move posts, not delete them, and the rules of the game are simple: assume that people are posting in good faith.  Even if you think they aren't.  The only consequence of breaking the rules of the game are that your posts will be moved (not hidden).  So there's no censorship, but there is deck-clearing.

Cheers

Lizzie

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,06:39   

Zoe:
Quote
@ Peter Griffin, re Homosexuality is not Condemned in the Bible!

“The Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality is as clear and plain as the Bible’s condemnation of murder, adultery, premarital sex, kidnapping, lying and idolatry. Further, for me to openly condemn homosexuality theologically makes me no more a “gay basher” than I am an “adultery basher”, “premarital sex basher”, “kidnapper basher” or a “murderer basher”. If you disagree, your argument is with God’s Bible.

“The homosexual community has two ways of promoting their personal choices of being homosexual through the religious forum. First, some will claim the Bible actually promotes and condones homosexuality. Second, others try to get the Bible banned from public use by categorizing it as hate literature.”

“For any to use the Bible to condone rather than condemn homosexual activity in the theological arena just proves such a one has absolutely no idea what the Bible actually teaches. For anyone to suggest the Bible says homosexual activity is acceptable to God, is nothing short of willful blindness. So to set the record straight once and for all, here is what the Bible teaches on the subject.”

“Anyone who has heard of the cities of “Sodom and Gommorah” knows that they were notorious hotbeds of homosexuality. Gen 19:5-8 “and they called to Lot and said to him, ‘Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.’ But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, ‘Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.’” The Greek word in the New Testament for homosexuality is literally “a sodomite”. Jock is trying to redefine what the term “sodomite” means. (A term that has unchanged in 5000 years, even today- “sodomy”) Apart from the fact the city was clearly destroyed by God because of homosexuality in the narrative of Gen 19, even the New Testament clearly states exactly the same thing in Jude 7 “Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.” Any sinner should always remember that the God who commands us to love our neighbour is the same God who will cast any and all unrepentant sinners into the “eternal fire”. Here are more Bible quotes, Lev 18:22-23 “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” Lev 20:13 “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death.” 1 Cor 6:9 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals” 1 Tim 1:9-10 “realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers” Rom 1:26-27 “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.”

“If the homosexual community chooses to practice homosexuality in privacy, that is there free choice. But let such persons know for certain that the Christian Bible condemns all such practices and God will judge them unfit for the kingdom of heaven if the continue to practice and openly promote homosexual sex.”

Seven Things I Wish
Pro-Gay People Would Admit
by Bob Davies

1. “I wish they would admit that many people are not happy with their homosexuality or lesbianism, and that this conflict is internal, based on legitimate, intelligent religious and moral convictions–not just the result of a so-called “homophobic” society which is forcing guilt upon people who don’t conform to a heterosexual ethic.
Stop throwing out the cheap, inaccurate labels like “internalized homophobia” to explain our motivations.”

2. “I wish they would acknowledge that homosexuals and lesbians can experience significant change in their sexual feelings and desires, even though they may never be totally heterosexual in their sexual thoughts and feelings.
Be honest enough to admit that such change is significant and genuine, even if it isn’t complete.”

3. “I wish they would acknowledge that many former homosexuals and lesbians have found a greater measure of peace and satisfaction after leaving a gay or lesbian lifestyle than they ever experienced while embracing homosexuality.”

“Not all “ex-gays” are miserable, plotting how to secretly fulfill their homosexual lusts without being caught.”

4. “I wish they would acknowledge that many former homosexuals and lesbians have genuine joy in their marriages.”

“Most former gays and lesbians don’t get married in a futile attempt to “escape” homosexuality; they marry as a natural consequence of resolving that issue in their lives.

“5. I wish they would acknowledge that all people have as much right to pursue a heterosexual lifestyle as they do to pursue homosexuality.”

“Former homosexuals and lesbians should not be harassed and castigated by the gay community. But I have never heard any gay or lesbian leaders speak out against the violence (such as bomb threats and physical/verbal abuse) which some people perpetuate against Exodus ministries.”

6. “I wish they would stop equating our decision to leave homosexuality with “hatred” and “bigotry” against gays and lesbians.”

“We don’t hate gays; we simply desire to live free of homosexuality. Don’t put nasty labels upon our motives. That’s being judgmental and unfair.”

7. “I wish pro-gay religious leaders would admit that their endorsement and promotion of monogamous homosexual relationships is a facade.”

“Many–probably most–men and women involved in long-term partnerships are not sexually monogamous, but gay churches don’t discipline members for committing “adultery” outside their “gay marriage.” Neither do they discipline gays or lesbians who have sex before entering into a “holy union” with their partner. ”

Bob Davies is past President of Exodus International and an ex-gay himself. He has been married for nine years.
(Used by permission of the Exodus Standard, P.O. Box 77652, Seattle, WA, 98177.)


Link.

Yes, it seems that if Zoe is not Gordon then she takes her orders from him, saying the things he does not allow himself to say.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Amadan



Posts: 1240
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,06:39   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 10 2012,18:16)
Quote (BillB @ Feb. 10 2012,11:40)
Quote (Freddie @ Feb. 10 2012,17:35)
 
Quote (BillB @ Feb. 10 2012,11:13)
 
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 10 2012,17:07)
Looks like I have been banned too.

And me - GCUGreyArea - again! (p.s. I was also DrBot)  :p

As an avid Iain M. Banks fan I laud you as one of the great players of games.  Your use of weapons was state of the art especially given all that time you were playing against a dark background: all of the IDiot responses to your posts I would consider flea bites.

Bravo!

Bravo indeed... post of the week!

Agreed! It's just a pity that the amusing sessions Febble's intervention provided are now ex-sessions.



My coat? Thanks...

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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
The whole truth



Posts: 972
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,07:20   

I just read some of the comments being posted on UD and since I am NOT ALLOWED to post there, I'll respond here.

I'm sure that the first thing that the IDiots who read this will think is "Well of course you aren't allowed to post at UD. Just look at what you say about us!'. The thing is, I did sign up at UD well before I ever said ANYTHING negative about any of the IDiots and well before I put up my site. I was banned within a few days even though I was civil. I just asked a few questions, got a few snotty responses and suddenly my sign in wouldn't work. Many other people have been shut out in exactly the same way.

I have also tried to comment at other ID sites and either no comments are allowed or the same sort of UD draconian moderation policies are in place. After running into that way too many times and seeing that many other people had run into the same thing, and especially after reading TONS of hypocritical spewage by cowardly IDiots that no one has the guts to face them and that everyone other than them is uneducated, amoral, immoral, wicked, evil, dishonest, hateful, disingenuous, destined for Hell, biased, ignorant, blind, hypocritical, arrogant, dictatorial, genocidal, murderous, deceitful, abusive, tyrannical, a censor, a nazi, a communist, a Marxist, and a LONG list of other negative things, I decided to put up my site and point out, challenge, and mock the IDiots and their dishonest, dangerous, religious and political agenda.

nullsallus is over at UD showing himself to be just another dishonest, two-faced, lying IDiot who has no self awareness whatsoever. Here are some of his words:

"That’s the short of it: mutual respect. If that’s not there – if there’s a complete and utter lack of respect on one end, even if it’s shown only on another public site – then to hell with it. There’s no shortage of people willing to argue about just about anything on the internet, so if debate is important, you may as well hold out for someone who doesn’t collapse into a ranting fit of expletives, mockery and insults when your name comes up elsewhere.

And by the way, that’s a two-way street. The problem is, it’s a pretty one-sided affair at this point. Again I say, check out the thread, note the behavior, note the utter lack of anyone criticizing it – and note that this was taking place long, long before any bans came into play."

Since you're reading this thread, null-and-void, dig this:

Yeah, respect is two way street, and you assholes should actually practice what you preach. Respect is also EARNED and you won't earn it by shutting people out for no good reason or by spending your life trying to replace science with your insane religious dogma, or by trying to control the government with your religious political agenda, or by constantly and maliciously condemning people who don't worship you and your imaginary sky daddy, or by lying about your Dominionist agenda, or by lying about the people you constantly condemn, or by lying about the way science is done, or by lying about the motives of scientists, or by lying about scientific evidence, or by trying to selfishly and wrongly redefine what actually is scientific evidence, or by engaging in any of the other dishonest, dictatorial, arrogant, bigoted, two-faced, disrespectful, deranged, rotten games you religious IDiots play.

You expect someone to criticize this site, and this thread, and you expect someone here to criticize me for what I've said here and for the pictures I posted. Well guess what, null, you live in a glass house and shouldn't throw stones. I and the others here are RESPONDING to the shit that you IDiots have been cranking out for DECADES, and in a sense we're responding to the shit that you religious wackos have been trying to shove down people's throats for thousands of years. YOU are the oppressors, YOU are the tyrants, YOU are the censors, and YOU are the ones who won't settle for anything less than controlling the thoughts and actions of everyone on Earth, and it's obvious that you'll resort to any insidious deception to gain that control.

You also hypocritically barfed (about EL):

"She’s there, mark. And she happily tolerates it all without a word, just as I said. Just as she tolerated it at Myers’ venue, just as she tolerates it whenever it comes up.

I don’t have much respect for someone who acts superficially nice, but who turns a blind eye to that sort of obsessive abuse. The day an admin at UD starts doling out that kind of crap is the day I object, if I see it, and if this place every became halfway what AtBC is, I’ll just walk. I doubt it will happen.

There’s a name for a person who is giggly and nice when they discuss things with people, but who stands by and lets nasty crap be said against the same people without a word. The name isn’t “nice”. It’s “two-faced”."

Yeah, you expect EL (and others) to speak up against what is said here, but it's perfectly fine for you religious zombies to turn a blind eye to all of the malicious, vicious attacks you perpetrate on anyone who doesn't see things exactly how you think they should. The MASSIVE hypocrisy of you assholes is simply beyond measure. Every minute of every day the UD site and many other ID/religious sites are FILLED with condemnation, ridicule, insults, mockery, lies, and even threats aimed at anyone who doesn't get down on their knees and worship your pompous asses. Are you or any of your fellow IDiots speaking up about all of that? NO. Are you "happily" tolerating it and contributing to it? YES.

I see that you're still going on and on with the accusation of collusion on our part. Everything is out in the open here, and on my site too, and no one is shutting you out for no good reason. You're the ones hiding behind your protective wall of moderation. You're the ones being deceitful and fraudulent, and you're the ones pushing an illegal agenda to infiltrate schools and government and everything else with your Dominionist insanity.

You and your comrades in hypocrisy and lies are the most despicable, cowardly, dishonest, amoral, immoral slime balls I have ever come across. Fuck you and the imaginary god you rode in on.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Quack



Posts: 1746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,07:26   

I believe there may be an iron fist in them there velvet gloves.

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YEC creationists denigrate science without an inkling of what their lives would be without it. YEC creationism is an enrageous, abominable insult to the the human intellect.
                                                         Me.

  
Raevmo



Posts: 235
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,07:38   

It seems that my inference to fisting between Jonathan M and DI senior researchers has upset that sensitive soul nullasalus (whose handle boils down to "if you're not Catholic, you'll burn in hell forever, asshole"). He brings it up several times in the legendary "ya cant make this stuff up" thread. He even demands that markf take a stand on it:
Quote
Where do you stand on the fisting comment, Mark, or the rest?

The guy is a bully on par with Bully Arrington.

--------------
After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM.

--GilDodgen

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,07:55   

Gordo:
 
Quote
it seems, arguably at least, the biggest driver of homosexual suicide attempts is unstable, short-term relationships characteristic of that community

Oh, but it's OK because Gordo felt sad when somebody he knew killed themselves
 
Quote
that when my colleague, friend and former hall mate ended up a suicide, it was a moment of grief and loss; a loss of a good mind our native land could ill afford, too.

Gordo reflects:
 
Quote
We could go on and on, but he basic point is this was yet another polarising distractor for the thread; meant to feed the smear that design thought is nothing more than Creationism in a cheap tuxedo.

No, Gordo, it was an attempt to call you out as somebody who has opinions that are hateful and who dresses those opinions up in verbiage designed to disguise that fact.

Who said this shitface? Not me.
 
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which highlights the biblical principle that widespread sexual immorality and homosexual perversion are strong marks of a nation’s rebellion against God and his judgement:
 
Quote
God’s sound moral creation order for the cosmos and his moral order for our lives, whatever those who wish to claim that perversion [e.g. sodomy (cf. Rom 1:16 - 32, 1 Cor 6:9 - 11)]

 
Quote
Meanwhile, every species of licence and libertinist sinful suicidal folly, deception and perversion walks in broad daylight, and blasphemously and brazenly demands to be recognised before the law as a "right."

From that last one I can guess where you stand on gay marriage.
Link.
 
Quote
As you can see above, I deliberately set several points for investigation by the serious. I also pointed to the online book, My Genes made me Do it

No, Gordo, you responded with several points which were non-responsive to my question. And you know it. And the reason?

You are a coward and a homophobe.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,08:22   

eigenstate
 
Quote
I have a homosexual son, so I don’t take homosexual jokes lightly. But for all the absence of gay jokes here, After the Bar Closes is a place my college age son would be welcomed, treated well, and supported like a human being. This place is the cesspool for people who are homosexuals, and if you’d like, I could get him to post here to confirm. Worshipping the God you worship is a much deeper and profound offense, a kind of wickedness no “HOMO” jokes can touch. So, if you want to talk about decency toward homosexuals, you are in the gutter hanging with the culture you do, right here.


beautiful.  whats even better,  the "HOMO" jokes are a parody of DaveScot's actual behavior at UD years ago.  that context is lost on this fool


eigenstate
 
Quote
Well, suit yourself. But people aren’t stupid, over there or here. I know the ‘OMG look at the fisting jokes’ appeal is going to work on some demagogic level, but it doesn’t fool people who are really following along. It’s just another cop out, another lazy, and frankly cowardly way to avoid the real areas of conflict.


is anyone making fisting jokes at UD? Oh yeah I didn't think so.  so, for another reason it's a huge who gives a fuck.  but as eigenstate is saying (more gently) tone trolling and pearl clutching lets them avoid the real problem.  

dull
 
Quote
You have no idea what my views on homosexual behavior are, and frankly, your clumsy attempt to paint me with the brush you’re using not only fails – it establishes you as quite a punk and a hypocrite besides. Go tolerate the “queer” jokes at your cesspool and write it all off as “well I bet they vote the right way, and that makes it okay”, but don’t try to project your guilty conscience onto me.


"queer" jokes?  "punk"?  ROFLMAO.  get the crucifix out of your ass dullasalus

eigenstate to stephenB mewling about "civility not wasting others time"
 
Quote
I agree this. This is also the basis for the “meta-criticism” of UD, the incivility that makes locker-room haranguing a minor faux pas by comparison. UD is expert at wasting critics time. Ask any of the critics, they will tell you that it is an impossible task to get UDers to sustain a serious, substantial exchange over the “methodology of ID” as science. Your posts are a very good example, predictably poisoning that well with “worldview” style critiques, and all the cultural phenomenon stuff you say you want to keep separate. If I’m wrong, maybe you can link me to your last substantial exchange with a critic on this methodology. I think I can link you to a LOT of the “cultural phenomenon” you put out.


fucking A!  been there done that sweatheart, that's why this thread exists.  muah

then gordon mullings jacks off for 27 points but i aint reading all that shit man

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1650
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,08:37   

[quote=oldmanintheskydidntdoit,Feb. 11 2012,06:39]Zoe:
   
Quote
@ Peter Griffin, re Homosexuality is not Condemned in the Bible!

Homoerotic screed skipped.

Link.

Yes, it seems that if Zoe is not Gordon then she takes her orders from him, saying the things he does not allow himself to say.

The really sad thing is that if Dembski was Zoe, he'd still have a job.

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Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.   Edward Feser

‘Anything is a “real possibility” in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious.’ – William J Murray

  
Patrick



Posts: 549
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,09:35   

Speaking of Dembski, I'm wondering if it's possible that the Friday Meltdown ™ by Barry "push me" Arrington is related to Dembski's imminent (and I suspect involuntary) departure from the vacation bible school he currently graces with his presence.  Is this a housecleaning before daddy gets home?

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,09:41   

i suspect it's more about that old adage "people gets mad at the truth"

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,09:56   

William J Murray:

Quote
IMO:

Those that come here and, even in good faith and with civil tongue, reiterate misrepresentations of ID corrected in the FAQ, or rhetorical characterizations of ID and anti-ID argument/positions, or offer only patently absurd, uninformed and unexamined materialist, atheist, or moral relativist commentary & propaganda as if it were reasoned argument, should be quickly shown the door.

A reasonable, ethical host is not obligated to suffer the rhetorical, blathering nonsense of materialists, atheists, determinists and moral relativists in his own home ad infinitum just because his guests are polite and believe they are being honest and well-meaning.


Some retrospective self-justification going on here, I think: It's not that we are rude, it's that we are wrong. And nobody is under any ethical obligation to be told they are wrong by people who are, themselves, wrong.

William: that's how you build an echo chamber.

But you are still welcome to come to my place and tell me I'm wrong as many ways as you like.  I may eventually get it.  On the other hand, you may eventually figure out that the error is yours.  Either way, we will both be better off, right?

  
damitall



Posts: 322
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,09:57   

So after that classic Friday Meltdown, what are you guys going to do?

Sock up again and keep on stirring the Tardheap?

Or just let it fester into nothing more than a bad smell?

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,10:05   

Quote (damitall @ Feb. 11 2012,09:57)
So after that classic Friday Meltdown, what are you guys going to do?

Sock up again and keep on stirring the Tardheap?

Or just let it fester into nothing more than a bad smell?

Well, no socks for me.

  
Woodbine



Posts: 746
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,10:16   

Quote (damitall @ Feb. 11 2012,15:57)
So after that classic Friday Meltdown, what are you guys going to do?

Sock up again and keep on stirring the Tardheap?

Or just let it fester into nothing more than a bad smell?

Option 2!

:D

I, too harbour similar suspicions to Patrick. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out the Righteous Purging is to secure Dr.Dr.Dembski's safe and un-molested return to posting at UD.

  
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