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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 752
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2008,11:14   

Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Jan. 31 2008,07:17)
Is this old news: Darwin Film

Creation Ministries International has already begun a major international documentary film project to help challenge evolution in 2009. The film will take a critical look at some of Darwin's key ideas and will interview historians and scientists from a variety of views, including evolutionists. Together with wildlife footage from South America and dramatic re-enactments, the program will illustrate how the evolutionary viewpoint is far from the tried and tested science many believe it to be. It will shed some clear truth on the man Darwin, and his legend that has grown beyond historical fact.

Expelled is heading against stiff competition next year. Which will be the Top Tard in content?

That's certainly interesting.

However, I suspect that David Attenborough's series on evolution to commemorate the bicentennial of Darwin's birthday (2009) will likely more than counter that bit of rubbish. †This was mentioned in a recent Nature.

And it is about time that something like that is done. †As limited as the creationist junk is in persuasiveness and appeal, it has its impact, and will probably end up on the web for conspiracy-mongers to lap up.

It'll be amazing if Creation Ministries can make greater Tard than Expelled has, judging from what we've seen there. †Seriously, I bet even a number of the IDiots and other creationists will be embarrassed by such over-the-top ranting, even if they'll cling tightly to the illusion that anonymous cowards recounting their "persecution" are to be believed.

Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4470
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2008,11:19   

It looks to me like the minimum calculated payout on the kickback scheme is just over $3.33 per ticket, for a school turning in 299 tickets and hoping to get $1000 back for them.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
EoRaptor013



Posts: 45
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2008,12:15   

As a counter-example to Expelled, there was an article in the NJ Star Ledger about Dr. Gerta Keller, a geologist and paleontologist at Princeton. According to the article, ..."for the last 20 years, this Princeton professor has been the leading critic of the established theory of dinosaur extinction."

I'm not qualified to judge her work, so I'm not going there. What's interesting, however, in the context of this thread, is that Dr. Keller is considered, umm... a heretic. Indeed, some academic geologists/paleontologists have been down-right rude in their opposition to her views. BUT, she is regularly published in peer-reviewed journals (see Google scholar), holds a position at a fairly prestigious university, applies for, and receives, funding for her work, and oversees a lot of Ph.D. candidates and post-docs.

Some of the attacks against Dr. Keller have been very personal and bitter. (Isn't there some adage about goring oxen that might be appropriate here?) Nevertheless, through hard work she has accumulated sufficient data to convert some skeptics, and made others not quite so adamant in their opposition. In other words, she produces the data and it gets published, despite opposition. The great Chinese wall erected by the Evil Darwinist Conspiracy seems to have some pretty big holes, don't you think?

I'm guessing you won't see Dr. Gerta, or anybody like her, in Expelled.

  
EoRaptor013



Posts: 45
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2008,12:25   

Oh, and here's a pretty cool picture from the article:


  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2008,13:12   

Quote (EoRaptor013 @ Jan. 31 2008,11:15)
As a counter-example to Expelled, there was an article in the NJ Star Ledger about Dr. Gerta Keller, a geologist and paleontologist at Princeton. According to the article, ..."for the last 20 years, this Princeton professor has been the leading critic of the established theory of dinosaur extinction."

I'm not qualified to judge her work, so I'm not going there. What's interesting, however, in the context of this thread, is that Dr. Keller is considered, umm... a heretic. Indeed, some academic geologists/paleontologists have been down-right rude in their opposition to her views. BUT, she is regularly published in peer-reviewed journals (see Google scholar), holds a position at a fairly prestigious university, applies for, and receives, funding for her work, and oversees a lot of Ph.D. candidates and post-docs.

Some of the attacks against Dr. Keller have been very personal and bitter. (Isn't there some adage about goring oxen that might be appropriate here?) Nevertheless, through hard work she has accumulated sufficient data to convert some skeptics, and made others not quite so adamant in their opposition. In other words, she produces the data and it gets published, despite opposition. The great Chinese wall erected by the Evil Darwinist Conspiracy seems to have some pretty big holes, don't you think?

I'm guessing you won't see Dr. Gerta, or anybody like her, in Expelled.

Quote
That's not to say Keller wholly rejects the idea that an impact contributed to the demise of the dinosaurs, but she disagrees that the meteor that created the Chixculub crater did the deed. Perhaps an as-yet-undiscovered meteor did contribute to the mass extinction, but she also thinks that fierce volcanism in India could have triggered disastrous global warming.


I just watched a show on the History Channel that suggested this same hypothesis.

She doesn't sound like a crackpot - and she isn't weeping like Sternboohoo. In fact, she sounds like she relishes a good scrap.
Quote
"We were called bohemians," she says, "but really, we were the early hippies."
:)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4361
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2008,13:29   

I'm guessing you won't see Dr. Gerta, or anybody like her, in Expelled.[/quote]
 
Quote
That's not to say Keller wholly rejects the idea that an impact contributed to the demise of the dinosaurs, but she disagrees that the meteor that created the
 
Quote
"We were called bohemians," she says, "but really, we were the early hippies."
:)



LIKE SHE IS SOOOO WRONG DUDES!

I think I need to contact her...

I think we Neandertals were the first real hippies.  We communed with nature, stared at our cave fires when our Lava Lamps weren't working, and drew colored paintings on the walls.

Plus we got cool chicks.



--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
JohnW



Posts: 2226
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2008,15:43   

Quote (EoRaptor013 @ Jan. 31 2008,10:15)
As a counter-example to Expelled, there was an article in the NJ Star Ledger about Dr. Gerta Keller, a geologist and paleontologist at Princeton. According to the article, ..."for the last 20 years, this Princeton professor has been the leading critic of the established theory of dinosaur extinction."

I thought they ran out of coconuts.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Henry J



Posts: 4045
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2008,22:38   

Quote
I thought they ran out of coconuts.


What? No no - see, the moon is receding from the Earth. 70 Mya it was only a few feet off the ground. That's what killed off the dinosaurs. Well, the taller ones, anyway.

Henry

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 752
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2008,12:08   

Orlando Sentinel's review of Expelled, "Is Ben Stein the new face of Creationism?"

Since "Is Ben Stein the new face of Creationism" is locked, I want to archive the comment I made on their blog here. †I don't know why they wouldn't publish it, but I'd rather be safe...

Quote
There's a great irony in the attempts to link Stalinism and the modern evolutionary theory begun by Darwin. †Stalin was opposed to so-called "Darwinism," much like Stein and company are, and he used the heavy-handed tactics to keep scientific evolution suppressed.

Stalin replaced scientific evolutionary theory with Lysenkoism, which is nearly as magical as ID is, though without God.

There's a danger in over-hyping such analogies (especially when they're as untrue, like the ones in Expelled). †However, since they brought it up, and because the forces of anti-freedom have often targeted the science of evolution, the fact that IDists appear poised to adopt a milder Stalinist suppression of the most comprehensive biological theory seems worth mentioning.

Glen Davidson
[URL=http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7


--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2008,12:32   

Quote (Jason Spaceman @ Feb. 01 2008,09:53)
† †
Making people sign NDA's at a film screening. . .

Quote
†How do you re-package that tried, untested and untestable faith-without-facts warhorse, "Creationism" after its nearly-annual beat-down by an increasingly exasperated scientific community?

After you've tried renaming it "Intelligent Design," I mean.

With comedy. Mock your "Darwinist" foes the way comics, thinkers, scientists and educated people everywhere have been mocking creationism since Scopes took that monkey off our back.

Tuck into the way Michael Moore would, with a documentary hosted by a funny Don Quixote willing to tilt at science the way MM has gone after the gun culture, corporate cold-heartedness, George W. Bush and Big Health Care.

Get funnyman and ex-Nixon speech writer Ben Stein to host it, to be the on-camera jester-interviewer.

And re-cast this argument about what people chose to believe vs. what others can prove as fact as a fight for "Freedom."

That's the mnemonic device Stein came back to, time and again, last night in an Orlando screening of his new documentary, Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. It's a rabble-rouser of a doc that uses all manner of loaded images, loaded rhetoric, few if any facts and mockery of hand-picked "weirdo" scientists to attack those who, Stein claims, are stifling the Religious Right's efforts to inject intelligent design into science courses, science curricula and the national debate.

He was showing the movie to what he and the producers hoped would be a friendly, receptive audience of conservative Christian ministers at a conference at the Northland mega-church next to the dog track up in Longwood. They're marking this movie, which they had said, earlier, they'd open in Feb. (now April) the same way they pitched The Passion of the Christ and The Chronicles of Narnia, said Paul Lauer of Motive Entertainment, who introduced Stein.

In other words, a stealth campaign, out of the public eye, preaching to the choir as it were in an effort to get the word out about the movie.

They postered the Orlando Sentinel with email invitations, then tried to withdraw the one they sent to me. No dice. They also passed out non-disclosure "statement of confidentiality" agreements for people to sign. I didn't.

What are they hiding from you? Straight propaganda, to be sure. But again, if Michael Moore or Robert Greenwald can do it, why not Ben Stein?

Read it here.

From the same article:
Quote
I remember stumbling across, at a bookstore, one of the more shrill and lunatic Bill Clinton had people KILLED in Arkansas books that came out during the 90s. I open it at the B. Dalton, and lo and behold, there's Ben Stein writing the intro.

What? Well, I did an OCLC search for that, as well as Library of Congress. Nothing yet, but I'll track it down. That's too good to pass up. I don't remember him being a big voice in that stuff.

Other interesting items:
Ben Stein gives Bill Clinton advice on how to host a talk show.

Ben Stein says that Mark Felt ("Deep Throat") looks like a Nazi. Then he accused Felt of essentially being a Nazi. Nazi fixation, anyone?

Whole truckloads of Steintard out there. ("You shovel 16 tons and waddaya get? Another tard boulder and deeper in debt." :p Love how his books are located in "2 libraries worldwide" and that this one is available for $0.01.)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,13:15   

I didn't want to bump this, but I want to know what the hell this is.

Quote
When I took my graduate work at the state university, I took the opportunity to investigate the theory of evolution by taking some science classes. I was a member of the MENSA society (SUPER MENSA qualified) and eagerly anticipated the intellectual repartee I was to enjoy in these classes.

What a disappointment! After sitting and listening for the first week or so, I had to start challenging the many assumptions that were being presented as fact. In short order, the professors quit acknowledging my upraised hand. If I tried to interject a thought, I was asked not to interrupt until given permission to speak. I don't take that kind of attitude from anybody.

I confronted each of these three professors in turn in the classroom as to why they were denying me an opportunity to ask questions and receive clarification from them. Each of them told me the same thing, "You are confusing the class"!


Pretentious grad student screws up foundational undergrad classes, wonders why professors are annoyed!

This is apart from his degrees;

Quote
I earned Master Degrees in American History and Political Science. I have Bachelor Degrees in Sociology, Psychology, Philosophy, and Religion. I also took Pre-Law and was offered a full-ride scholarship to Harvard Law School, on the basis of LSAT score.

I turned the scholarship down after the Dean of the school advised me that my personal moral beliefs would be a hindrance in a legal career and employment would be difficult, at best. I spent 13 years as a Special Agent in the Drug Enforcement Administration and I am now attempting to build a creation ministry.


I'm half-convinced that this is a spoof. Four bachelor's degrees in overlapping fields. "Religion" isn't even a proper major. Prelaw, DEA agent, creationist, MENSA member. It's like someone sat down and asked, "if the most annoying person alive were posting on the Expelled web site, what would they write about themselves?"

I kid. It could be worse. He could have said "Deleuzian" somewhere in there. That might, possibly, be more annoying. But ... really, this is very close.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
JohnW



Posts: 2226
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,14:27   

Quote (Annyday @ Feb. 08 2008,11:15)
"Religion" isn't even a proper major.

Oh, it is.  Just not at proper colleges.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
JohnW



Posts: 2226
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,14:32   

Quote (Annyday @ Feb. 08 2008,11:15)
I didn't want to bump this, but I want to know what the hell this is.

More from the same source:

Quote
Despite my academic abilities and awards, I received virtually no interest when I initially attempted to procure a teaching position. I thought little of it at the time, since I was still considering attending Law School or returning to the DEA, but when I later obtained my personal file from the University, I learned that they had responded to inquiries from interested schools, that I was deficient both academically and intellectually. You must be dumb if you don't worship Darwin!

So, two options:
1.  The Great Intercontinental Darwinist Conspiracy runs whatever madrassa gave him his religion degree;
2.  Just possibly, he may actually be "deficient both academically and intellectually".

We report, you decide.



[edit: fixed run-on sentence of O'Learyan ugliness]

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,15:05   

There is some major league tard going on at that site.
 
Quote
Carl Sagan
Added by: Mike, on 2008-01-26 10:24:43

It seems that when we handed the Nobel Laureate our paper on intelligent design of the multiverse, proving the existence of God, he summarily walked out -- on 350 of my classmates and dropped the paper in the trash. Later, his colleagues at Princeton and Cambridge told him that he'd committed a major faux pas, and should at least have read our work.
Such closed minds argue by authority, sad to say, and have scant little evidence to back them up. We whose insight has proved sound suffer no such drawbacks. Eventually it comes down to faith. Either you accept the evidence or you do not.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/shoutout_text.php?story=222
As you can see, the number on the end of the URL references each item.
Some, oddly, seem to be missing.
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/shoutout_text.php?story=220
 
Quote
The selected story does not exist.

Story ?  :p Least they are honest about that!

Obviously some of the "stories" have been deleted. Yet what's not been deleted has unbelievable levels of tard.
 
Quote
Discrimination
Added by: Brittany, on 2008-01-25 11:17:50

In the late year of 2007, I wrote an essay about my feelings toward God and creation. The class was American Literature, and we were learning about Puritanism, so I took my beliefs and wrote them down onto paper. I expressed how I felt. God had helped me through my life, and I mentioned that it was because he loves us; we are God's "creation." I had been warned by many, saying that I shouldn't mention God in my paper, because it's a public school system, and it is not allowed. I thought long and hard before turning in my paper, and I thought about the first amendment. I, and everyone else in the United States of America, has the freedom of speech. Yes, there are limits to that freedom; I can speak my mind freely as long as I do not break a law, I do not harm anyone, and I do not infringe on anyone else's rights. Well, in this essay, I did not break any laws, harm anyone, or infringe on a person's rights. However, after I turned in my paper, my teacher returned it to me and I had 17% grade. I looked through the paper to see what my teacher marked incorrect, and all throughout the paper there were notes from my teacher, crossing out anything, and everything about God. She wrote to me that "mentioning God was unnecessary." What I didn't understand was that God was the entire point on the paper. People of the U.S.A. also have the freedom of religion, but if that is the case, then why do so many people get ridiculed for mentioning God is public places? Our country was built on the subject of God.. "... one nation, under GOD..." Why are people so discriminating? It simply does not make sense, and I don't know if it ever will. Thank you.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/shoutout_text.php?story=221
Now, I realise Brittany got sectioned the other day but...
 
Quote
Chased and Suppressed
Added by: Jack, on 2008-01-31 11:28:42
In 1979 I x-rayed and measured the Neanderthal child's skull, Pech de l'Azť, in Paris, France in the famous Museť de l'Homme. I first reported my results in an article in 1987:Cuozzo JW." Earlier orthodontic intervention: a view from prehistory." [Historical Article. Journal Article] Journal of the New Jersey Dental Association. 58(4):33-40, 1987 Autumn. Next, in 1998 New Leaf Press published my first book "Buried Alive" in which this little Neanderthal was prominently featured. In both the first article and the book I pointed out and illustrated how the French anthropologist E. Patte had misplaced the lower jaw too far forward to make it appear more ape-like, rather than a flatter face, which is more human-like. When I first turned in my duplicate x-rays to the museum, in August 1979, we were followed (my family of five children and I) for several days by shadowy men in two sports cars. This pursuit finally ended with a high-speed street chase through the streets of Paris, with us barricading ourselves in our borrowed apartment in a Parisian suburb. They sat on the hoods of their cars smoking cigarettes most of the night looking up at the high rise where we were hidden. We got away. The rest of the story is recalled in the book.

WTF?
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/shoutout_text.php?story=227

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4361
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,15:20   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 08 2008,15:05)
Quote
Chased and Suppressed
Added by: Jack, on 2008-01-31 11:28:42
In 1979 I x-rayed and measured the Neanderthal child's skull, Pech de l'Azť, in Paris, France in the famous Museť de l'Homme. I first reported my results in an article in 1987:Cuozzo JW." Earlier orthodontic intervention: a view from prehistory." [Historical Article. Journal Article] Journal of the New Jersey Dental Association. 58(4):33-40, 1987 Autumn. Next, in 1998 New Leaf Press published my first book "Buried Alive" in which this little Neanderthal was prominently featured. In both the first article and the book I pointed out and illustrated how the French anthropologist E. Patte had misplaced the lower jaw too far forward to make it appear more ape-like, rather than a flatter face, which is more human-like. When I first turned in my duplicate x-rays to the museum, in August 1979, we were followed (my family of five children and I) for several days by shadowy men in two sports cars. This pursuit finally ended with a high-speed street chase through the streets of Paris, with us barricading ourselves in our borrowed apartment in a Parisian suburb. They sat on the hoods of their cars smoking cigarettes most of the night looking up at the high rise where we were hidden. We got away. The rest of the story is recalled in the book.

WTF?
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/shoutout_text.php?story=227

This guy is like a UFOer or Big Foot Believer, and I heard about his story a long time ago - well, 3 years ago anyway...

I think he is like Larry and delusional, and recall vaguely, that what he has as "proof" has been totally discredited.

I would have to Google for more info.

added in edit:  Good Old Talk Origins:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/cuozzo_cg.html

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,15:42   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 08 2008,16:05)
Discrimination
Added by: Brittany, on 2008-01-25 11:17:50

In the late year of 2007, I wrote an essay about my feelings toward God and creation. The class was American Literature, and we were learning about Puritanism, so I took my beliefs and wrote them down onto paper. I expressed how I felt. God had helped me through my life, and I mentioned that it was because he loves us; we are God's "creation." I had been warned by many, saying that I shouldn't mention God in my paper, because it's a public school system, and it is not allowed. I thought long and hard before turning in my paper, and I thought about the first amendment. I, and everyone else in the United States of America, has the freedom of speech. Yes, there are limits to that freedom; I can speak my mind freely as long as I do not break a law, I do not harm anyone, and I do not infringe on anyone else's rights. Well, in this essay, I did not break any laws, harm anyone, or infringe on a person's rights. However, after I turned in my paper, my teacher returned it to me and I had 17% grade. I looked through the paper to see what my teacher marked incorrect, and all throughout the paper there were notes from my teacher, crossing out anything, and everything about God. She wrote to me that "mentioning God was unnecessary." What I didn't understand was that God was the entire point on the paper. People of the U.S.A. also have the freedom of religion, but if that is the case, then why do so many people get ridiculed for mentioning God is public places? Our country was built on the subject of God.. "... one nation, under GOD..." Why are people so discriminating? It simply does not make sense, and I don't know if it ever will. Thank you.

I don't believe this for a second.  It may as well start off "Dear Jack Chick, you won't believe this, but..."

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Nomad



Posts: 311
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2008,04:18   

Quote (improvius @ Feb. 08 2008,15:42)

I don't believe this for a second.  It may as well start off "Dear Jack Chick, you won't believe this, but..."

I'm not so certain.  It's AWFULLY vague on what the actual subject for the paper was.  "we were learning about Puritanism" is not sufficient explanation.

If the class was about the history of American literature, then what place does "god helped me through my life" have on an assignment?  If anything in this story is at all factually based (and I think it is, just filtered through the brain of a creationist), I'm guessing that the assignment had something to do with the writings of the Puritans.  Instead Brittany wrote an essay about her personal relationship with the big invisible man in the sky.

I doubt "mentioning god was unnecessary" is what the teacher really wrote though, it'd be difficult to discuss the Puritans without mentioning the big guy at some point.  Perhaps "mentioning your relationship with god was unnecessary", that sounds more likely.

This is all guesswork of course, but... the story just isn't good enough to be a fabrication.  It feels more incomplete than fictional.

  
Marion Delgado



Posts: 89
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2008,19:29   

Actually, this could be turned on Ben Stein and the whole right-wing anti-science movement.

Who says there's no possibility of intelligence in biogenesis or evolution? They're explicitly leaving out "intelligence" possessed by systems, and things like the Gaia Effect. They're leaving out coevolution. Indeed, all sorts of things.

It's like the saying that monotheists are atheists for all gods but one. They want to expel all intelligence that doesn't meet a theistic definition. The way they treat the panspermia and alien designers is a great example. They should not be allowed to get away with that.

Make them commit to a yes or no on could the whole thing be space aliens, with no need for a god or gods, could it be that there was panspermia so even if the Earth wasn't "old enough" for evolution to work, it could have come from outer space, could life systems as a whole have some kind of "intelligence" we can't comprehend, and so on. Maybe we should worship Nature, and theistic patriarchal deities violate The Intelligence. :)

Not to push any of these. More to point out that THEY are not allowing or admitting anything but their narrow Christianist wedge definitions, and call them on it publicly.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2008,20:33   

It doesn't look like the creationists need Ben Stein.
Quote
Creationists Seek Foothold in Europe
By GREGORY KATZ,AP

LONDON (Feb. 9) - After the Sunday service in Westminster Chapel, where worshippers were exhorted to wage "the culture war" in the World War II spirit of Sir Winston Churchill, cabbie James McLean delivered his verdict on Charles Darwin's theory of evolution.

"Evolution is a lie, and it's being taught in schools as fact, and it's leading our kids in the wrong direction," said McLean, chatting outside the chapel. "But now people like Ken Ham are tearing evolution to pieces."

Ken Ham is the founder of Answers in Genesis, a Kentucky-based organization that is part of an ambitious effort to bring creationist theory to Britain and the rest of Europe. McLean is one of a growing number of evangelicals embracing that message - that the true history of the Earth is told in the Bible, not Darwin's "The Origin of Species."

Europeans have long viewed the conflict between evolutionists and creationists as primarily an American phenomenon, but it has recently jumped the Atlantic Ocean with skirmishes in Italy, Germany, Poland and, notably, Britain, where Darwin was born and where he published his 1859 classic.

Darwin's defenders are fighting back. In October, the 47-nation Council of Europe, a human rights watchdog, condemned all attempts to bring creationism into Europe's schools. Bible-based theories and "religious dogma" threaten to undercut sound educational practices, it charged.

So much for my plans to emigrate to Europe. †:(

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2008,21:15   

That's not Europe, that's Britain.

--------------
"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
Mister DNA



Posts: 466
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2008,21:29   

Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 09 2008,20:33)
It doesn't look like the creationists need Ben Stein.
 
Quote
Creationists Seek Foothold in Europe
By GREGORY KATZ,AP

LONDON (Feb. 9) - After the Sunday service in Westminster Chapel, where worshippers were exhorted to wage "the culture war" in the World War II spirit of Sir Winston Churchill, cabbie James McLean delivered his verdict on Charles Darwin's theory of evolution.

"Evolution is a lie, and it's being taught in schools as fact, and it's leading our kids in the wrong direction," said McLean, chatting outside the chapel. "But now people like Ken Ham are tearing evolution to pieces."

Ken Ham is the founder of Answers in Genesis, a Kentucky-based organization that is part of an ambitious effort to bring creationist theory to Britain and the rest of Europe. McLean is one of a growing number of evangelicals embracing that message - that the true history of the Earth is told in the Bible, not Darwin's "The Origin of Species."

Europeans have long viewed the conflict between evolutionists and creationists as primarily an American phenomenon, but it has recently jumped the Atlantic Ocean with skirmishes in Italy, Germany, Poland and, notably, Britain, where Darwin was born and where he published his 1859 classic.

Darwin's defenders are fighting back. In October, the 47-nation Council of Europe, a human rights watchdog, condemned all attempts to bring creationism into Europe's schools. Bible-based theories and "religious dogma" threaten to undercut sound educational practices, it charged.

So much for my plans to emigrate to Europe.  :(

Does "cabbie" have a different meaning in the UK? Over here, a cabbie is a taxi driver. Is "cabbie" British slang for "Electrical Engineer" or "Refrigerator Repairman"?

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Bob O'H



Posts: 1967
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2008,01:51   

Nope, cabbie is short for cabman.  There are a lot of them in Huntingdonshire*.  The caricature is that they are opinionated (well, what else is there to do in a taxi but talk and drive?), and not necessarily tolerant of others in society.

Bob
* thrown in because somebody here will understand it.

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ID theorists donít postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2008,08:04   

Now the DI is officially in bed with Expelled.  Here's the latest email newsletter for the film:



Quote
EXPELLED teams up with the Discovery Institute to launch the Aca demic Freedom Petition, EXPELLED receives endorsements from James Dobson and more!
HOLLYWOOD, Calif. (Feb. 11, 2008) - With nothing less than truth and freedom at stake, the producers of EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed and Motive Entertainment have teamed up with the Discovery Institute to launch the Academic Freedom Petition. The petition urges America's academic institutions to adopt policies to ensure teachers and students have the freedom to discuss the scientific strengths and weaknesses of Darwinian evolution.

On another front, EXPELLED star Ben Stein and the producers have been traveling the nation to meet with key leaders and screen the movie. EXPELLED has received strong support already!

WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING:
"Ben Stein's film, EXPELLED, makes a powerful case for Intelligent Design in explaining the origins of life and the creation of the universe. It also exposes an entrenched and aggressive Darwinist establishment in academia that suffocates all competing points of view. Highly qualified professors and scientists who dare to question evolutionary orthodoxy are systematically excluded or summarily dismissed. It is political correctness run amuck on university campuses. Stein sets out on a mission to find out why I.D. is most often expelled from the public square, and what he discovers in this riveting documentary is incredibly enlightening. I recommend the film enthusiastically."
- James C. Dobson, Ph.D., Chairman of the Board, Focus on the Family

"This is an enormously important project and I am so proud of the fact that Ben Stein, who is a national treasure, is part of it. People know that there is a dictatorial impulse at work in the land to shut down ev en the most elementary questioning of this unquestionable belief in random evolution and the American people don't like being told by their 'betters' what they are supposed to believe."
- Michael Medved, nationally syndicated radio host

"EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed is earthshaking. I was absolutely blown away. Ben Stein boldly shines a light of honest inquiry revealing that evolution's emperor has no clothes. It will have Darwin's disciples scurrying for the shadows. Everyone in America, even skeptics of Intelligent Design, must see this film. They can't possibly walk away without at least admitting that the debate over who we are and how we got here is far from over. The controversy will be intense, so get ready for a rollercoaster ride."
- J. Matt Barber, Director for Cultural Issues, Concerned Women for America

"EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed offers a compelling examination of an important topic for everyone who values the freedom to explore ideas that challenge conventional wisdom. Ben Stein has given us a powerful documentary about the widespread repression of faith-friendly scientific scholarship. Along the way, he also makes a strong case for a return to civil discourse in a time when political correctness often overshadows the search for truth. EXPELLED is an engaging film that features a winning combination of humor and reason with just the right tone needed to bring its significant story to the worldwide audience."
- Ronald D. Ellis, Ph.D., President, California Baptist University

Read more at: www.GetExpelled.com/quotes.php

HOW YOU CAN HELP:
We need your support! Here's what you can do to help spread the word about the movie EXPELLED and stand up for academic freedom:

  1. Send an email to all of your contacts informing them to learn more a bout the film by visiting www.GetExpelled.com and encourage others to spread the word!

  2. Go to your local theater and speak with a manager to request that EXPELLED is shown in your city. The movie is coming out this April and you can print off a movie poster for the theater's reference by visiting www.GetExpelled.com.

  3. Buy advance tickets for your family and friends to see the movie. Invite everyone to see the film during opening weekend in April 2008.

  4. Add a banner or post a video clip to your website, MySpace page, Shoutlife page or blog. You can access our Tools for Webmasters by visiting www.GetExpelled.com. We have various free resources available for your use.

  5. Help spread the word in your local area churches, schools, clubs and community centers. For more info, please email: [EMAIL=paul.lauer@getexpelled.com.]paul.lauer@getexpelled.com.[/EMAIL]

  6. Stand up for academic freedom and freedom of scientific inquiry by signing the petition at: www.academicfreedompetition.com.

The EXPELLED resource website - www.GetEXPELLED.com - has added some exciting new features. The site is packed full of useful tools and resources to promote the ideas surrounding this history-changing film, which opens in theaters this April:

   * Learn about new scientific evidence that invalidates Darwin's claims.
   * Hear from scientists who are being SILENCED for those discoveries.
   * Learn how to DEFEND BELIEF in God based on SCIENTIFIC evidence.
   * Learn what can and cannot be taught in schools and how that is CHANGING nationwide.

See a SNEAK PEEK < /strong>of exclusive video clips from the upcoming movie.

ABOUT THE FILM:
In this film, author, former presidential speechwriter, economist, lawyer and actor Ben Stein exposes the frightening "atheist agenda." The film also reveals how teachers, students and scientists are being "expelled" and persecuted for questioning Darwinism despite the mounting evidence that debunks Darwinism and shows proof of a Designer ("God") in the universe! This highly controversial documentary is receiving major media buzz (including the front page of the New York Times). In the movie, Stein travels the world, asking top scientific minds whether Darwinism is still a "theory" or if it's become a "law" which no one is allowed to question.

NATIONWIDE TOUR:
The second leg of the EXPELLED Nationwide Tour wrapped up in late January. The EXPELLED team traveled from Texas to Miami before heading north to the nation's capitol. The guys in the big, red EXPELLED bus met some amazing people along the way, including EXPELLED star Ben Stein himself. Ben attended a screening in Orlando for about 3,000 Young Life leaders. He was incredibly gracious and stayed to sign autographs for everyone in line. Following a screening at the Heritage Foundation in Washington, the EXPELLED crew passed out information on the film at the March for Life, which drew over 30,000 people. The tour continues with stops in Georgia before heading back to Florida and Texas. Tour details at: www.GetEXPELLED.com/tourblog


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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2008,08:20   

Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 09 2008,20:33)
So much for my plans to emigrate to Europe. †:(

It's alright, we're fighting them tooth and claw, and they are not really getting anywhere.  You'd be welcome here anytime.

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2008,16:07   

It will be interesting to see Caroline Crocker do the Martyrdom Mambo in Expelled.

I watched her lie her way through a Coral Ridge Ministries video called The Intelligent Design Controversy in Higher Education (the same one that Slimy Sal was so proud to have appeared in).

The highlight is this self-righteous quote from Crocker:
Quote
I decided not to give the students only the standard story, which is what they have heard since they were very small, but I did one lecture where I gave them the evidence for and against evolution, just the scientific evidence.

I was so careful when I wrote that lecture not to be partial in any way. †I was very careful to make sure that I would talk about point by point the evidence that the book would put forward for evolution and then talk about point by point the experiments and say "Well, you know, there's a problem here."

And then I did at the end of the lecture talk about, "Well, this is evidence for a new theory that several, that some scientists are considering, †and it's called Intelligent Design..."

I think it was on the last slide where I left the students with a question. †I said "Is it evolution, intelligent design, or creation? †Think about it." †At the end of the lecture students would tell me that they didn't know what I believed and they would ask me, "What do you believe?", and I would say, "Well, that's for outside of class."


While she is declaring her innocence, images of her slides are being displayed on the screen. †Check out what Crocker means by "impartial scientific evidence":



















If this is impartial scientific evidence, I'd love to see what biased creationist propaganda looks like.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2008,16:15   

It could be P-A-R-O-D-Y, it's that bad...

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
khan



Posts: 1479
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2008,18:41   

She lies like a fundie.

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"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2008,21:52   

Hahahaha! :D



Via Pharyngula.

Thanks, Guthrie, I hope you don't mind if I bring all my friends! ;)

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Mister DNA



Posts: 466
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2008,22:22   

Kristine, that poster is awesome - I wouldn't mind hanging it on my wall, but it needs a "PYGMIES + DWARFS" reference to  make it complete...

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CBEB's: The Church Burnin' Ebola Blog
Thank you, Dr. Dembski. You are without peer when it comes to The Argument Regarding Design. - vesf

    
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2008,23:13   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 10 2008,07:51)
Nope, cabbie is short for cabman.  There are a lot of them in Huntingdonshire*.  The caricature is that they are opinionated (well, what else is there to do in a taxi but talk and drive?), and not necessarily tolerant of others in society.

Bob
* thrown in because somebody here will understand it.

What you mean is they're all fascists who believe every word they read in The Sun, The Express or The Daily Mail, particularly if it's written by that bastard (sorry for the swearing) Richard Littlejohn.

There's one cabbie here in Aber who is quite a nice guy really, but a couple of my friends, one Jewish, got in a cab with him, ad had to listen to him banging on about how he hates jews because, apparently, they all pay with £50 notes. Cab drivers are only one step up from white van men, to be honest, which is really annoying, because ideally I'd like more power to the proletariat. Unfortunately, the proletariat are, to a fair extent, nazi sociopaths who hate everyone who isn't British, despite the fact we've been invaded and have invaded others so many times that's a totally meaningless concept.

Oh the joys of casual racism. Rant over.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
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