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  Topic: The Skeptical Zone, with Lizzie< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 15 2011,22:52   

here it is:

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....wp

I did dun 3 postings, but my comments r not promoted.

I has a sad.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1365
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2011,05:38   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 15 2011,17:52)
here it is:

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....w....p....wp

I did dun 3 postings, but my comments r not promoted.

I has a sad.

It's a Wordpress template, Rich. First comments from new posters are automatically held in moderation. Maybe Lizzie hasn't had time with all the stuff she's been posting at UD.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4362
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2011,08:00   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 15 2011,22:52)
here it is:

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....w....p....wp

I did dun 3 postings, but my comments r not promoted.

I has a sad.

Perhaps you:

Didn't use enough Oil of Ad-Hom in the post?

Failed to quote the correct Chapter & Verse from The correct version of The Bibble? (KJV of course)

Throw your pc from the plane?

Forgot to add enough Lewontin?

Oh wait - that's UD Posting Rules!  

Nevermind...

Give it time and you'll get through!  It's not UD, right?

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2011,08:25   

How did you log in? There seem to be several doorways. Perhaps one is broken.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2011,08:33   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Aug. 16 2011,08:25)
How did you log in? There seem to be several doorways. Perhaps one is broken.

Just general comments submission. I have since gone through registration. Returning later, I can see new comments approved after where I posted, so I think they are either lost or discarded.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2011,12:19   

Sorry!

Still getting the hang of the dashboard.

Hope your comments have appeared now.

Cheers

Lizzie

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3305
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2011,13:15   

Quote (Febble @ Aug. 16 2011,12:19)
Sorry!

Still getting the hang of the dashboard.

Hope your comments have appeared now.

Cheers

Lizzie

If you need any help with Wordpress, let me know, I'm an old hand at it.

I've enjoyed your work BTW.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2011,20:29   

Seriously - the "Atheists get morality from religion" canard?  I had expected better based on the arguments I've seen quoted.

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2011,20:31   

I think I killed it. Or at least stunk up the place so no one else wants to play.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2011,21:14   

Quote (Febble @ Aug. 16 2011,12:19)
Sorry!

Still getting the hang of the dashboard.

Hope your comments have appeared now.

Cheers

Lizzie

Febble, be sure to add a bolded comment, AKA the loudspeaker in the ceiling, rebutting Rich's comments.  He would really enjoy it, it would give him fond reminisces of DaveScot days.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2011,00:19   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Aug. 16 2011,22:14)
Quote (Febble @ Aug. 16 2011,12:19)
Sorry!

Still getting the hang of the dashboard.

Hope your comments have appeared now.

Cheers

Lizzie

Febble, be sure to add a bolded comment, AKA the loudspeaker in the ceiling, rebutting Rich's comments.  He would really enjoy it, it would give him fond reminisces of DaveScot days.

sniff

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Henry J



Posts: 4069
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2011,12:19   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Aug. 16 2011,23:19)
sniff

Hold on, I've got a Kleenex around here someplace...

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1956
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2011,18:31   

Quote (Henry J @ Aug. 18 2011,10:19)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Aug. 16 2011,23:19)
sniff

Hold on, I've got a Kleenex around here someplace...

Isn't that one rather crusty?

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2011,19:18   

That's why people are afraid of clowns.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Henry J



Posts: 4069
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2011,09:30   

Somebody that's afraid of clowns can just tell the clown to not do anything funny.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2011,13:57   

So if you put your credentials in "Leave a Reply" without logging in, the post gets eaten.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2011,14:16   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 19 2011,13:57)
So if you put your credentials in "Leave a Reply" without logging in, the post gets eaten.

Does it?

Oops, will try to sort that out.

Also, if you want OP posting privileges let me know.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2011,14:52   

Quote (Febble @ Aug. 19 2011,14:16)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 19 2011,13:57)
So if you put your credentials in "Leave a Reply" without logging in, the post gets eaten.

Does it?

Oops, will try to sort that out.

Also, if you want OP posting privileges let me know.

Me, moi?

I do. I shall try and leave my priors and irreverence here. I also need clarification on your stance on LOLcats, FT4U, All science so far! and other AtBC memes.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2011,15:50   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 19 2011,14:52)
Quote (Febble @ Aug. 19 2011,14:16)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 19 2011,13:57)
So if you put your credentials in "Leave a Reply" without logging in, the post gets eaten.

Does it?

Oops, will try to sort that out.

Also, if you want OP posting privileges let me know.

Me, moi?

I do. I shall try and leave my priors and irreverence here. I also need clarification on your stance on LOLcats, FT4U, All science so far! and other AtBC memes.

Done.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,09:26   

After a hiatus, it's up and running again.

Hope people will drop by :)

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,10:48   

any odds on how long until Joe plays tough guy?

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,12:46   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Aug. 16 2011,11:15)
 
If you need any help with Wordpress, let me know, I'm an old hand at it.

Hey Ogre - wp question:
Over on TSZ, I seem to have lost the ability to edit, even when logged in to wp.  All I see on the dashboard are spellcheck and expand-window icon.  I used to have edit buttons, html tags and all sorts of other stuff.
 What me doin' rong?

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,16:20   

Not sure, but I just released two posts from the spam filter.

WP is a bit like our aging Dyson washing machine.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3305
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,16:44   

Quote (sledgehammer @ Feb. 20 2012,12:46)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Aug. 16 2011,11:15)
 
If you need any help with Wordpress, let me know, I'm an old hand at it.

Hey Ogre - wp question:
Over on TSZ, I seem to have lost the ability to edit, even when logged in to wp.  All I see on the dashboard are spellcheck and expand-window icon.  I used to have edit buttons, html tags and all sorts of other stuff.
 What me doin' rong?

It may be that Liz turned off editing or has edited permissions.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,20:43   

Well, it's never a good idea to leave edit permissions on when creationists are commenting.

...and I don't assume bad faith on their part, I simply look at the evidence.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,23:15   

As I recall, the edit function had a "timeout" feature after the post was entered which I thought was a good way to prevent another Chris Doyle or FtK "incident".
 Heck, I'll forgo an edit function if I can have a "preview" function instead.  I'm always screwing up the quotes, tags, and anything requiring code-based protocols or semantics.

Edited, to make sure I still <b><i><u>can!</u></i></b>

Edited by sledgehammer on Feb. 20 2012,22:43

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2012,03:11   

There should be a 30 minute edit window for comments, and posts can no longer be edited after midnight (to avoid deletion of entire threads).

There are two ways of editing a post, one gives you a menu and no wysiwyg, the other gives you wysiwyg but no menu.

It would be nice to figure out how to give people both....

  
olegt



Posts: 1387
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,22:28   

Breaking news:
Quote
GilDodgen on February 23, 2012 at 3:29 am said:

Dear Liz,

From my point of view, the notion that complex, functionally-integrated information-processing systems and the associated machinery, with error-detection-and-repair algorithms, were engineered by the introduction of random errors, with the bad errors being thrown out and the good errors being preserved, strikes me as being irrational, illogical, in contradiction to the evidence, and based on a philosophical precommitment.

On the other hand, you and most of the contributors to your blog consider my inference to design to be irrational, illogical, in contradiction to the evidence, and based on a philosophical precommitment (although my original philosophical precommitment was yours and that of most of your contributors).

I thus return to the theme my original post, which is that there is an unbridgeable gap.

Thanks for the opportunity to post here. It was fun while it lasted.

I'll check in from time to time.


--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2012,23:23   

awwwww tarderace ran back to bullys skirts and gordons corrective F/N Mr Leather

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Amadan



Posts: 1246
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,02:17   

A simple probability calculation shows it was inevitable that Brave Sir Dodger would end up corroding his armour from the inside.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,08:41   

Quote (olegt @ Feb. 22 2012,22:28)
Breaking news:
Quote
GilDodgen on February 23, 2012 at 3:29 am said:

Dear Liz,

From my point of view, the notion that complex, functionally-integrated information-processing systems and the associated machinery, with error-detection-and-repair algorithms, were engineered by the introduction of random errors, with the bad errors being thrown out and the good errors being preserved, strikes me as being irrational, illogical, in contradiction to the evidence, and based on a philosophical precommitment.

On the other hand, you and most of the contributors to your blog consider my inference to design to be irrational, illogical, in contradiction to the evidence, and based on a philosophical precommitment (although my original philosophical precommitment was yours and that of most of your contributors).

I thus return to the theme my original post, which is that there is an unbridgeable gap.

Thanks for the opportunity to post here. It was fun while it lasted.

I'll check in from time to time.

That's a shame, Gil. You had a chance to engage, rather than preach to flock. I think Gil's a good guy deep-down, despite his peccadilloes.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
JohnW



Posts: 2238
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,11:19   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 23 2012,06:41)
Quote (olegt @ Feb. 22 2012,22:28)
Breaking news:
 
Quote
GilDodgen on February 23, 2012 at 3:29 am said:

Dear Liz,

From my point of view, the notion that complex, functionally-integrated information-processing systems and the associated machinery, with error-detection-and-repair algorithms, were engineered by the introduction of random errors, with the bad errors being thrown out and the good errors being preserved, strikes me as being irrational, illogical, in contradiction to the evidence, and based on a philosophical precommitment.

On the other hand, you and most of the contributors to your blog consider my inference to design to be irrational, illogical, in contradiction to the evidence, and based on a philosophical precommitment (although my original philosophical precommitment was yours and that of most of your contributors).

I thus return to the theme my original post, which is that there is an unbridgeable gap.

Thanks for the opportunity to post here. It was fun while it lasted.

I'll check in from time to time.

That's a shame, Gil. You had a chance to engage, rather than preach to flock. I think Gil's a good guy deep-down, despite his peccadilloes.

It's hardly surprising.  He's been playing one song for years: "Personal incredulity, and you should believe me because I'm smart".  

It's not much of a song, but that frilly shirt looks fabulous.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,12:27   

Site now has mini-forum attached.

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,20:58   

From the too-good-to-be-true department, dvunkannon discovers that LS-DYNA has a genetic optimization package:
Quote
Still waiting for those simple probability calculations, Gil. In the meantime, can you explain why LS-DYNA has a genetic optimization package?

http://ftp.lstc.com/anonymo....ual.pdf

I hope Gil's manager makes him use it.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
REC



Posts: 571
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,21:04   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 23 2012,20:58)
From the too-good-to-be-true department, dvunkannon discovers that LS-DYNA has a genetic optimization package:
Quote
Still waiting for those simple probability calculations, Gil. In the meantime, can you explain why LS-DYNA has a genetic optimization package?

http://ftp.lstc.com/anonymo....ual.pdf

I hope Gil's manager makes him use it.

Damn you.... I just shot some nice local small-batch rye out my nose on that one...

Mmmm

On the plus side, the burn is somewhat pleasant...

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2012,21:14   

snort it back in!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
sparc



Posts: 1698
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,01:36   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 23 2012,20:58)
From the too-good-to-be-true department, dvunkannon discovers that LS-DYNA has a genetic optimization package:
Quote
Still waiting for those simple probability calculations, Gil. In the meantime, can you explain why LS-DYNA has a genetic optimization package?

http://ftp.lstc.com/anonymo....ual.pdf

I hope Gil's manager makes him use it.

POTW. You reall ymade my day.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
The whole truth



Posts: 985
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,04:32   

I just made the mistake of looking at some of the comments at TSZ in the Good arguments and straw men thread. As usual the bible thumping IDiots are calling people names (like "troll") and making insulting remarks about reading comprehension and other things to or about non-IDiots.

I stopped reading when I saw EL's response to this mess by WJM (my responses are in bold type):

William J. Murray on February 23, 2012 at 8:47 pm said:

This is probably essentially off-topic, but anyway:

But that won't stop you from proselytizing and being a pompous jerk, right?

For myself, and probably most people posting or reading ID/NDE (neo-darwinian evolution) debates, we lack the scientific or mathematical education/background/training to make any formal scientific arguments about ID or NDE. The best we might be able to do is recognize logical challenges/solutions/problems involved in more specifically educated arguments about ID vs NDE.

Speak for yourself and your IDiotic comrades, not "most people posting or reading ID/NDE (neo-darwinian evolution) debates".

This is why I try to keep my contributions about the logic and philosophy involved, and not interpretations of technical data. I'm not qualified to parse the technical data on biological or mathematical merits. I suspect most those contributing here are equally unqualified.

Suspect yourself and your IDiotic comrades. Just because you and your fellow IDiots are "not qualified to parse the technical data on biological or mathematical merits" doesn't mean that non-IDiots are "equally unqualified". That's one of the biggest problems with you morons.  Because you're delusional, stupid, and uneducated, you think that anyone who questions or opposes you must be just as delusional, stupid, and uneducated, or more so. From your position of delusion, ignorance, and lack of education, you can't see that many people are way smarter and more educated than you, and are not delusional to boot.

Which brings me to my point: those whom I suspect are equally unqualified to parse the merits of the data often make assertions about the explanatory power of NDE theory that is well beyond their capacity to know. It's often (logically speaking) beyond the capacity of even experts in specific fields to know. Comments such as (from this thread):

There you go again suspecting something unfounded and wrong about people who are actually your intellectual superiors by miles. And, now that you made a bunch of asinine, insulting remarks in a lame attempt to discredit and diminish the intellect and knowledge of non-IDiots, you're going to get to your "point"?

   I note that organisms are not optimal in their function/form ~ it is easy to make a wish list of improvements. This is to be expected in 'evolution world', but not in 'ID world'

One only knows what "optimal form" is in terms of ID if the full intent of the designer is known, as well as the necessary parameters and specifications to be met by the design.

Actually, one only knows what ANY function/form is in terms of ID if the full intent of the designer is known, as well as the necessary parameters and specifications to be met by the design. In other words, without knowing (and showing) the intent, parameters, and specifications to be met by the alleged design, you IDiots don't know squat and are just dishonestly proselytizing for your non-scientific, non-evidential, wacky religious beliefs.

  For everyone else, there is a single, consistent, fully explanatory theory supported by all known observations without exception.

I doubt even the most long-tenured, multi-discipline, research-practicing evolutionary biologist could meaningfully claim this. This is obviously a statement of faith, not first-hand investigatory knowledge about "all known observations without exception".

What you doubt is irrelevant and meaningless to science and rational debate, and your absolutely moronic and desperate assertion about "first-hand investigatory knowledge" is so arrogant and stupid as to be good for nothing but laughs and mockery. No evolutionary biologist claims to have first-hand investigatory knowledge of all known observations without exception and Flint didn't claim that. Tell me, do you have "first-hand investigatory knowledge" of the alleged creation of the universe by your chosen god, or the alleged garden of eden, or the alleged talking snake, or the alleged 'flood', or the alleged ark, or the alleged conception, birth, life, death, and resurrection of a guy now called jesus, or anything else in your fairy tale religious dogma?  

  There is no reason to suppose any teleological or supernatural forces are involved.

This in the face of hundreds of years of biology that has worked against the commonly held supposition of teleological forces involved, and is easily disputed by referring to Lewontin or many others who have written about the apparent design in nature. This is just rhetoric in the face of the history of evolutionary theory and thought.

Blah blah blah. Nothing but arrogant, twisted bullshit.

If one reads through much of the ID/NDE commentary on this site (or even on UD), from both sides there is much presentation of characterizations of ID, or of ID researchers, or of NDE, or NDE researchers, or of the state of research, or of what is known, or what has been proven or not proven, or what there is evidence of or not of, by those who really don't have much of an idea of what they are talking about when it comes to actually evaluating data on the merits oneself and not just taking someone else's word for what it means.

Look at a mirror if you want to see someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. And whose word are YOU taking for all the bullshit religious stories you believe?

Basically, the debate is 90% negative or positive characterizations & rhetoric, and maybe 10% qualified interpretation and criticism of data & the merits of an argument. So, I'd say that really, about 90% of us are, in terms of the scientific and mathematical evidence and argument, doing nothing more in that specific area of argument than cheerleading those who actually understand the science and/or the math.

There you go yet again making a lame attempt to denigrate and diminish scientists and science supporters who are vastly superior to you and the other IDiots in understanding scientific and mathematical evidence and arguments. Yeah, you don't understand squat, and you're an arrogant religious retard, and your ridiculous and insulting assertions about non-IDiots are nothing more than your lame attempt to fool yourself and others into believing that your opponents are as stupid as you are.

So the question I finally draw to is: Why have we chosen ID, or NDE, when we lack the necessary qualifications to do anything more, really, than appeal to authority when it comes to the actual science involved?

Who's "we"? Speak only for yourself and your brain-dead fellow religious zombie IDiots.

Since I obviously do not understand enough of the science or math to reach a qualified decision about either, I must rest my choice on other considerations, which I think is what is behind how most people make the choice between ID and NDE (or between NDE and creationism); other considerations.

Yeah, since you don't understand enough of the science or math to reach a qualified decision about either, you must rest your choice on the easy and delusional fairy tales of your chosen religion. Congratulations, you're an ignorant nutcase.

So, I think the best populist argument for ID, for the 90%, has nothing really to do with math or science (or even logic) that is over our head anyway, but rather the hope, meaning, purpose and value that is conferred upon life & existence under the ID paradigm that is not available under the NDE paradigm.

In other words you're a scientifically and mathematically illiterate godbot who prefers fairy tales to reality, you support and promote a dishonest Dominionist agenda, and you think that makes it okay for you to rank down science, scientists, and science supporters.

I think that it is also true that for 90% of NDE believers, that it is some populist or psychological reason that they have adopted NDE (as was historically said, Darwinism allowed one to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist), and attempt to characterize their belief as scientific or logical when it really is not.

How do you know that "it really is not" when you admittedly don't understand science and math? You're speaking from 100% delusion, ignorance, and arrogance.

At the end of the day, most of what either side tries to do (outside of the players educated in the particular fields) is characterize their ID or NDE belief as being based on science or logic; but when it comes down to it, that belief is really - IMO - nothing more than a reflection of what they want or need to believe anyway.

Again, speak for yourself. And what makes you think that "players educated in the particular fields" aren't involved in debates with you uneducated IDiots?

Personally, I choose to believe in god. I prefer believing in god (and yes, I've tried atheism). And unless there is some kind of logical contradiction or fact of my existence that contradicts ID, I will believe that our universe and life was designed by an intelligence. I prefer living under that paradigm.

Oh, so you've "tried atheism"? If only you knew how asinine that sounds. Live under any delusion you like but keep your insanity out of science, schools, politics, and the lives of people who don't want and don't need your religious crutch.

That doesn't mean I cannot make logical arguments for ID, or for god; nor does it mean I can't read papers and make sense out of some of the science and math; it just means that I admit my fundamental reason for belief is something other than that which I'm really not qualified to evaluate.

Actually, you god zombies are incapable of making a logical argument for ID and anything else. And yes, you're unqualified to evaluate science, math, logic, and reality, so stop telling people who are qualified to evaluate those things that they are wrong.  

And I think that this is probably true for most people involved in the debate.

What you think is gibberish.

 (Reply)
Elizabeth on February 23, 2012 at 8:50 pm said:

That's interesting, William, thanks.

Actually, it's crap.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,04:45   

That doesn't make it not interesting :)

But he actually has a good point.  Most ID proponents don't understand the science, and, to be fair, most ID skeptics don't understand evolutionary theory all that well either.

Most of us simply do not have the expertise to critique the relevant science, but we are happy to refer to scientific authority because we are not anti-science.

There is a real assymmetry, but I don't think that's where it lies.

And boy is there tribalism.  That, IMO, is how people like Santorum or Bachmann can get away with endorsing ID.  Most people don't have the expertise to see what's wrong with it, nor the expertise to understand the scientific counter-view.

  
olegt



Posts: 1387
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,06:22   

Gil is such a drama queen.
Quote
Liz,

I respectfully request that my account at this forum be permanently deleted. The probability that I will return is zero.

Participating here is a colossally pointless waste of time, but thanks for the initial invite.

The last sentence is exactly right, though, and some of us knew that all along.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
k.e..



Posts: 2898
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,08:07   

Quote (olegt @ Feb. 24 2012,14:22)
Gil is such a drama queen.
 
Quote
Liz,

I respectfully request that my account at this forum be permanently deleted. The probability that I will return is zero.

Participating here is a colossally pointless waste of time, but thanks for the initial invite.

The last sentence is exactly right, though, and some of us knew that all along.

not only does he have a small consequence his return is more probable than teh messiah.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
JohnW



Posts: 2238
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,11:51   

Quote (olegt @ Feb. 24 2012,04:22)
Gil is such a drama queen.
 
Quote
Liz,

I respectfully request that my account at this forum be permanently deleted. The probability that I will return is zero.

Participating here is a colossally pointless waste of time, but thanks for the initial invite.

The last sentence is exactly right, though, and some of us knew that all along.

He uses longer words, but this is exactly like one of FTK's flounce-in / flounce-out cycles at ATBC:

Godbot: Assertion!
Critics: Evidence?
Godbot: Waah!  You are teh big meanies!

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Woodbine



Posts: 782
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,13:13   

Quote (olegt @ Feb. 24 2012,12:22)
Gil is such a drama queen.
   
Quote
Liz,

I respectfully request that my account at this forum be permanently deleted. The probability that I will return is zero.

Participating here is a colossally pointless waste of time, but thanks for the initial invite.

The last sentence is exactly right, though, and some of us knew that all along.

Oh, play fair, Darwinist. He probably had a bad day and needed to flounce. It's not like he's done it befo....

Oh....



Damn, such a loss to everyone to see him retreat into the sunset like that.

Oh, wait a sec....what's that, Gil? You want to talk some more about yourself, do you?



What a narcissistic TARD you are, Gil.

:D

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,14:09   

the butthurt oozes from that one

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2124
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,15:16   

Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 24 2012,11:13)
What a narcissistic TARD you are, Gil.

:D

You have to admit though, he wears the perfect flouncing shirt.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,15:32   

I'm registered and still can't edit. I get an edit button, but it just grays the whole page.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Quack



Posts: 1758
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,15:43   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 23 2012,20:58)
From the too-good-to-be-true department, dvunkannon discovers that LS-DYNA has a genetic optimization package:
 
Quote
Still waiting for those simple probability calculations, Gil. In the meantime, can you explain why LS-DYNA has a genetic optimization package?

http://ftp.lstc.com/anonymo....ual.pdf

I hope Gil's manager makes him use it.

Looks kinda interesting...

--------------
YEC creationists denigrate science without an inkling of what their lives would be without it. YEC creationism is an enrageous, abominable insult to the the human intellect.
                                                         Me.

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,17:14   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 24 2012,15:32)
I'm registered and still can't edit. I get an edit button, but it just grays the whole page.

Ya, the edit button is not working, neither is the full screen entry function, which was working a few days ago.  Both just produce a grey screen.

  
George



Posts: 312
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,17:43   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 24 2012,15:32)
I'm registered and still can't edit. I get an edit button, but it just grays the whole page.

Try right clicking and opening in a new tab.  It (sort of) worked for me.

  
George



Posts: 312
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,17:49   

Ok, who else when they saw this oh-so-helpful diagram in Gregory's guest post



thought of the basic concepts of Small and Far Away?

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2012,21:17   

i like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....cRrMA-M

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1009
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,00:17   

Quote (George @ Feb. 24 2012,17:49)
Ok, who else when they saw this oh-so-helpful diagram in Gregory's guest post



thought of the basic concepts of Small and Far Away?

That post confused me. Is he trying to argue that we can't study culture and archaeology and such using methodological naturalism? Or am I missing something?

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Dr.GH



Posts: 1956
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,01:08   

Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 24 2012,11:13)
Gil is such a drama queen.
     
What a narcissistic TARD you are, Gil.

:D

I had forgotten that the frilly one was a "neighbor" of sorts.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
George



Posts: 312
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,02:47   

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 24 2012,21:17)
i like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....cRrMA-M

A classic!  I remember it well. :)

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,03:16   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 24 2012,04:45)
That doesn't make it not interesting :)

But he actually has a good point.  Most ID proponents don't understand the science, and, to be fair, most ID skeptics don't understand evolutionary theory all that well either.

Most of us simply do not have the expertise to critique the relevant science, but we are happy to refer to scientific authority because we are not anti-science.


There is a real assymmetry, but I don't think that's where it lies.

And boy is there tribalism.  That, IMO, is how people like Santorum or Bachmann can get away with endorsing ID.  Most people don't have the expertise to see what's wrong with it, nor the expertise to understand the scientific counter-view.

Maybe, but you don't have to understand scientific publications to know which side has the evidence. It is fairly simple (if you actually look) to see that science is based on trying to explain data, ID is just saying that science is hard/not certain etc. Therefore God!

Do you think that ID has anything of substance? I don't.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,05:39   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 25 2012,03:16)
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 24 2012,04:45)
That doesn't make it not interesting :)

But he actually has a good point.  Most ID proponents don't understand the science, and, to be fair, most ID skeptics don't understand evolutionary theory all that well either.

Most of us simply do not have the expertise to critique the relevant science, but we are happy to refer to scientific authority because we are not anti-science.


There is a real assymmetry, but I don't think that's where it lies.

And boy is there tribalism.  That, IMO, is how people like Santorum or Bachmann can get away with endorsing ID.  Most people don't have the expertise to see what's wrong with it, nor the expertise to understand the scientific counter-view.

Maybe, but you don't have to understand scientific publications to know which side has the evidence. It is fairly simple (if you actually look) to see that science is based on trying to explain data, ID is just saying that science is hard/not certain etc. Therefore God!

Do you think that ID has anything of substance? I don't.

No, I don't, but that's because I have enough expertise to recognise that.

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,06:11   

Gregory's OP "Why Methodological Naturalism is a Questionable Philosophy of Science" eventually reveals his feeble grasp of scientific terms. When Petrushka asks:
Quote
What's an extra-natural thing? Can you give an example?

Gregory states:
Quote
Technology


In the thread, it becomes clear that Gregory thinks "natural" means "without human interference".

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4491
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,09:02   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 25 2012,05:39)
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 25 2012,03:16)
 
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 24 2012,04:45)
That doesn't make it not interesting :)

But he actually has a good point.  Most ID proponents don't understand the science, and, to be fair, most ID skeptics don't understand evolutionary theory all that well either.

Most of us simply do not have the expertise to critique the relevant science, but we are happy to refer to scientific authority because we are not anti-science.


There is a real assymmetry, but I don't think that's where it lies.

And boy is there tribalism.  That, IMO, is how people like Santorum or Bachmann can get away with endorsing ID.  Most people don't have the expertise to see what's wrong with it, nor the expertise to understand the scientific counter-view.

Maybe, but you don't have to understand scientific publications to know which side has the evidence. It is fairly simple (if you actually look) to see that science is based on trying to explain data, ID is just saying that science is hard/not certain etc. Therefore God!

Do you think that ID has anything of substance? I don't.

No, I don't, but that's because I have enough expertise to recognise that.

The bar on relevant expertise is low for recognizing the null content of "intelligent design" creationism. All one has to be able to do is compare what is offered as IDC to what has been offered previously as arguments *for* religious antievolution. First, strip off any "evolution is wrong" argument, which don't provide argument *for* religious antievolution. What remains in IDC is a proper subset of previous forms of religious antievolution argument.

The four big ideas of IDC, "irreducible complexity", "complex specified information", cosmological ID, and "the privileged planet" argument are recognizable as elaborations of arguments made by the Rev. William Paley in his 1802 book, "Natural Theology". The rest are easily traceable to "creation science", "scientific creationism", and plain old "creationism".

You don't have to have scientific training to see this.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,09:06   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 25 2012,09:02)
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 25 2012,05:39)
 
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 25 2012,03:16)
   
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 24 2012,04:45)
That doesn't make it not interesting :)

But he actually has a good point.  Most ID proponents don't understand the science, and, to be fair, most ID skeptics don't understand evolutionary theory all that well either.

Most of us simply do not have the expertise to critique the relevant science, but we are happy to refer to scientific authority because we are not anti-science.


There is a real assymmetry, but I don't think that's where it lies.

And boy is there tribalism.  That, IMO, is how people like Santorum or Bachmann can get away with endorsing ID.  Most people don't have the expertise to see what's wrong with it, nor the expertise to understand the scientific counter-view.

Maybe, but you don't have to understand scientific publications to know which side has the evidence. It is fairly simple (if you actually look) to see that science is based on trying to explain data, ID is just saying that science is hard/not certain etc. Therefore God!

Do you think that ID has anything of substance? I don't.

No, I don't, but that's because I have enough expertise to recognise that.

The bar on relevant expertise is low for recognizing the null content of "intelligent design" creationism. All one has to be able to do is compare what is offered as IDC to what has been offered previously as arguments *for* religious antievolution. First, strip off any "evolution is wrong" argument, which don't provide argument *for* religious antievolution. What remains in IDC is a proper subset of previous forms of religious antievolution argument.

The four big ideas of IDC, "irreducible complexity", "complex specified information", cosmological ID, and "the privileged planet" argument are recognizable as elaborations of arguments made by the Rev. William Paley in his 1802 book, "Natural Theology". The rest are easily traceable to "creation science", "scientific creationism", and plain old "creationism".

You don't have to have scientific training to see this.

Well, I'd say you have to have good science education that consists not merely of learning a body of knowledge but of also learning what scientific knowledge consists of.

My son is doing the IB, and one of the core IB subjects is "Theory of Knowledge".  I wish it was universally taught.

ETA: yeah, those are the Big Four.  Thanks.

Edited by Febble on Feb. 25 2012,09:07

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4491
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,09:46   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 25 2012,09:06)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 25 2012,09:02)
   
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 25 2012,05:39)
     
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 25 2012,03:16)
       
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 24 2012,04:45)
That doesn't make it not interesting :)

But he actually has a good point.  Most ID proponents don't understand the science, and, to be fair, most ID skeptics don't understand evolutionary theory all that well either.

Most of us simply do not have the expertise to critique the relevant science, but we are happy to refer to scientific authority because we are not anti-science.


There is a real assymmetry, but I don't think that's where it lies.

And boy is there tribalism.  That, IMO, is how people like Santorum or Bachmann can get away with endorsing ID.  Most people don't have the expertise to see what's wrong with it, nor the expertise to understand the scientific counter-view.

Maybe, but you don't have to understand scientific publications to know which side has the evidence. It is fairly simple (if you actually look) to see that science is based on trying to explain data, ID is just saying that science is hard/not certain etc. Therefore God!

Do you think that ID has anything of substance? I don't.

No, I don't, but that's because I have enough expertise to recognise that.

The bar on relevant expertise is low for recognizing the null content of "intelligent design" creationism. All one has to be able to do is compare what is offered as IDC to what has been offered previously as arguments *for* religious antievolution. First, strip off any "evolution is wrong" argument, which don't provide argument *for* religious antievolution. What remains in IDC is a proper subset of previous forms of religious antievolution argument.

The four big ideas of IDC, "irreducible complexity", "complex specified information", cosmological ID, and "the privileged planet" argument are recognizable as elaborations of arguments made by the Rev. William Paley in his 1802 book, "Natural Theology". The rest are easily traceable to "creation science", "scientific creationism", and plain old "creationism".

You don't have to have scientific training to see this.

Well, I'd say you have to have good science education that consists not merely of learning a body of knowledge but of also learning what scientific knowledge consists of.

My son is doing the IB, and one of the core IB subjects is "Theory of Knowledge".  I wish it was universally taught.

ETA: yeah, those are the Big Four.  Thanks.

I've long been an advocate of good science education.

That's not what we're discussing here.

What's at issue here is being able to make a judgment on the argumentation proffered as "intelligent design". You are claiming that one needs a scientific background to even approach evaluating it. I'm saying that's wrong. Where IDC advocates even approach science is all in the "evolution is wrong" category of argumentation, and that offers *no* support for their alternative conjecture. (As noted in Kitzmiller v. DASD, where testable claims are made, they are testable because they are about evolution, which is testable, and not about ID, which isn't.) What they do have that even approaches making a case for their alternative is all stuff that is decades, or even centuries, out of contention for making anybody even shrug about it.

This isn't an argument about the content or nature of science. The IDC advocates want to pitch it that way, but there's no good reason I know of to accommodate them.

If you want to have a rousing discussion on the merits of some particular "evolution is wrong!" argument, I'd suggest a reminder each and every time that whatever one decides about it, the outcome in no way aids a religious antievolution viewpoint. You'll probably elicit a pretty clear statement of the invalid "two-model" or "oppositional dualism" stance from a religious antievolution advocate on that point. It's good to get them on record supporting logical fallacies.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,17:33   

I take your point.

I still think the notion that if something is shown to be not-quite-right that doesn't necessarily mean it is All Wrong is not intuitive.

At the very least, Asimov's essay, The Relativity of Wrong, should be compulsory reading in all schools.[I]

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2012,17:34   

BTW, the comment editor is broken, and everyone is waiting for an update.

There is a workaround, though, that works in Firefox at least - if you right-click on the edit link, and open in a new tab or window, you get an edit window that seems to work OK.

But I hope they will fix the pop-up window soon.  I can't find another comment editor that works.

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,01:47   

What is the link to the forum? I am havind several internet problems lately. But i got a friend request

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,02:34   

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....w....p....wp

ETA   clip off the ellipses after the first /wp

Edited by sledgehammer on Feb. 26 2012,00:37

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,03:25   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 25 2012,05:39)
 
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 25 2012,03:16)
 
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 24 2012,04:45)
That doesn't make it not interesting :)

But he actually has a good point.  Most ID proponents don't understand the science, and, to be fair, most ID skeptics don't understand evolutionary theory all that well either.

Most of us simply do not have the expertise to critique the relevant science, but we are happy to refer to scientific authority because we are not anti-science.


There is a real assymmetry, but I don't think that's where it lies.

And boy is there tribalism.  That, IMO, is how people like Santorum or Bachmann can get away with endorsing ID.  Most people don't have the expertise to see what's wrong with it, nor the expertise to understand the scientific counter-view.

Maybe, but you don't have to understand scientific publications to know which side has the evidence. It is fairly simple (if you actually look) to see that science is based on trying to explain data, ID is just saying that science is hard/not certain etc. Therefore God!

Do you think that ID has anything of substance? I don't.

No, I don't, but that's because I have enough expertise to recognise that.

I have no expertise, all my education has been authoritative. Yet it is fairly easy to see that ID is nonsense. Anyone arguing pro-ID after several years is clearly not looking at any evidence they do not like.

BTW, I started out as pro-ID. It did not take long to see who had rhetoric and who had evidence. It does not require lots of education/intelligence/training to judge, just a genuine desire to learn.

I do not believe that any long-time ID supporters actually want to learn.

  
k.e..



Posts: 2898
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,07:17   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 26 2012,11:25)
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 25 2012,05:39)
 
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 25 2012,03:16)
   
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 24 2012,04:45)
That doesn't make it not interesting :)

But he actually has a good point.  Most ID proponents don't understand the science, and, to be fair, most ID skeptics don't understand evolutionary theory all that well either.

Most of us simply do not have the expertise to critique the relevant science, but we are happy to refer to scientific authority because we are not anti-science.


There is a real assymmetry, but I don't think that's where it lies.

And boy is there tribalism.  That, IMO, is how people like Santorum or Bachmann can get away with endorsing ID.  Most people don't have the expertise to see what's wrong with it, nor the expertise to understand the scientific counter-view.

Maybe, but you don't have to understand scientific publications to know which side has the evidence. It is fairly simple (if you actually look) to see that science is based on trying to explain data, ID is just saying that science is hard/not certain etc. Therefore God!

Do you think that ID has anything of substance? I don't.

No, I don't, but that's because I have enough expertise to recognise that.

I have no expertise, all my education has been authoritative. Yet it is fairly easy to see that ID is nonsense. Anyone arguing pro-ID after several years is clearly not looking at any evidence they do not like.

BTW, I started out as pro-ID. It did not take long to see who had rhetoric and who had evidence. It does not require lots of education/intelligence/training to judge, just a genuine desire to learn.

I do not believe that any long-time ID supporters actually want to learn.

PHHHT .................BELIEF IS THAT ADAM & EVE WERE THE FIRST 2 PEOPLE ON EARTH.

ID SUPPORTERS ARE JUST STUPID .....WHICH STRANGELY ENOUGH MEANS/IS THAT THEY CAN'T LEARN, EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO.

ID ...IT'S LIKE OBSERVING A FREAK SHOW.

YOU KNOW IT'S WRONG BUT WHAT THE HELL, IF PEOPLE ARE PAYING MONEY TOO SEE IT, THEN THERE'S NO HARM. RIGHT?

GIVEN THAT THEY HAVE OSSIFIED INTO A GRAVEYARD OF TEH SMALL IDEAS OUTSIDE OF SOME CREEPY SMALL TOWN IN TEH CONFEDERACY SHOULDN'T WE GIVE THEM A FINAL SEND OFF......WITH COLLECTABLES?


IF THEY COME BACK YOU'LL GET YOUR GOD BACK, ALL YOUR TITHES, YOUR VIRGINITY AND YOUR PET CAT...JUST THE SAME AS IF YOU PLAYED A COUNTRY AND WESTERN RECORD BACKWARDS

AMEN

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Quack



Posts: 1758
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,07:30   

Quote
I do not believe that any long-time ID supporters actually want to learn.
Because it would be like a pact with the devil.

--------------
YEC creationists denigrate science without an inkling of what their lives would be without it. YEC creationism is an enrageous, abominable insult to the the human intellect.
                                                         Me.

  
Woodbine



Posts: 782
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,08:20   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 26 2012,09:25)
I do not believe that any long-time ID supporters actually want to learn.

I think the main problem is that they already believe that God 'did it', and therefore the idea that ID could be advancing unsound arguments just does not compute.

Take Denyse O'Leary; she's your typical ID shill. Denyse already believes life was intelligently designed but she demonstrably has not the crudest understanding of the arguments of Behe or Dembski etc.

And because she does not understand the arguments for ID she does not understand the criticism being levelled against ID. And because she doesn't understand the only interpretation she can put on it is that the criticism levelled against ID arguments must therefore be politically or ideologically motivated.

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,11:39   

Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 26 2012,08:20)
And because she doesn't understand the only interpretation she can put on it is that the criticism levelled against ID arguments must therefore be politically or ideologically motivated.


It's worse than that.  She is so ideologically entrenched that she can't even entertain the notion that others might not be similarly motivated.  For her it's ideology all the way down.

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,15:19   

I also don't think that you need a scientific education to see that ID is vacuous. Prior to Dover the commonest complaint on PT was that the MSM was too much he said-she said when they reported on ID. Once the case started this quickly changed to ridicule and now except for some Fox pundits they don't even bother reporting on it.

I come here for 2 reasons:
1. The unintended humour of the UDists and the intended humour of the ATBCers.
2. To try to understand their psychology. What goes on in their brains. Why would Gil come onto Liz's site and say that he could prove that evolution was impossible using basic probability not provide the calculation and flounce out using the insults as an excuse.

Now what are the options:
1. He is completely unhinged and planned it all ahead of time.
2. He thought he had the devastating proof when he made the claim. As this was the first time anybody asked him to provide it, he realised that it was puerile and looked for any excuse to run away from the site.
3. His subconcious protecting him from reality led him to think that he actually did provide the proof and he was insulted that everybody on the site weren't instantly converted and flounced out.

I'd be interested in Liz's opinion on she thinks happened.  For Gil I tend towards number 3. People like Joe I think tend towards number 2. That is he KNOWS that ID is correct but also know where the evidence lies. Joe thinks that for now he can confuse matters by throwing dung around and maybe one day somebody will find some evidence for ID.

  
socle



Posts: 267
Joined: July 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,16:22   

Quote (MichaelJ @ Feb. 26 2012,15:19)
Now what are the options:
1. He is completely unhinged and planned it all ahead of time.
2. He thought he had the devastating proof when he made the claim. As this was the first time anybody asked him to provide it, he realised that it was puerile and looked for any excuse to run away from the site.
3. His subconcious protecting him from reality led him to think that he actually did provide the proof and he was insulted that everybody on the site weren't instantly converted and flounced out.

Can we vote too?  

I don't know what to say about Gil.  I get the impression he thinks of himself as always being the smartest guy in the room, and that he just doesn't need to defend his claims, because, well, he's Gil Dodgen.  

Regarding the phenomenon of Joe G, I think these two factors key:

1)  He doesn't care about the truth.  All that matters is winning the argument.

2)  He is completely unaware of how badly he loses every argument he enters.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,16:31   

Quote (socle @ Feb. 26 2012,17:22)
2)  He is completely unaware of how badly he loses every argument he enters.

and deliciously so



that makes my innernets

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,17:11   

Quote (socle @ Feb. 27 2012,07:22)


I don't know what to say about Gil.  I get the impression he thinks of himself as always being the smartest guy in the room, and that he just doesn't need to defend his claims, because, well, he's Gil Dodgen.  


Which basically says '2' as he must not be conscious of not being able to back up his claims.

Edited by MichaelJ on Feb. 27 2012,08:22

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1482
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,17:46   

Quote (socle @ Feb. 26 2012,16:22)


Regarding the phenomenon of Joe G, I think these two factors key:

1)  He doesn't care about the truth.  All that matters is winning the argument.

2)  He is completely unaware of how badly he loses every argument he enters.

Right now Lizzie's Guano page has 120 posts.

41 of those are from Joe G.

Next closest is olegt with 11.

'nuff said.

--------------
JoeG: And by eating the cake you are consuming the information- some stays with you and the rest is waste.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,18:35   

Well, I seem to have inadvertently deleted the entire site.

Hope to have a backup up shortly.

Yikes.

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,18:43   

Whew!  I was just posting a reply when it went down.  I thought I broke it.

ETA:  Fortunately, I've learned from experience to compose my posts in a text document, and then cut-n-paste into the post edit window.

Edited by sledgehammer on Feb. 26 2012,16:48

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,19:04   

I can't believe I managed to be so stupid.  Or how unfoolproof the thing is!

OK, I need a sysadmin....

  
olegt



Posts: 1387
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,19:09   

That's a pity. The forum became quite popular. But, Liz, even if much of it is gone, we will repopulate the site again.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,19:17   

Quote (olegt @ Feb. 26 2012,19:09)
That's a pity. The forum became quite popular. But, Liz, even if much of it is gone, we will repopulate the site again.

JUST LIEK TEH FLUD

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,19:25   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 26 2012,19:04)
I can't believe I managed to be so stupid.  Or how unfoolproof the thing is!

OK, I need a sysadmin....

Sure. I believe you. NOT!

You are just trying to hide the simple probability calculations that Gil used to show how evolution can't create sophisticated information processing machines!  

Damn materialist!  *shakes fist*

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,19:31   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 26 2012,19:04)
I can't believe I managed to be so stupid.  Or how unfoolproof the thing is!

OK, I need a sysadmin....

Quote
OK, I need a sysadmin....


Gil's a self-appointed software engineering genius.

Surely he can help!

(sarc off)

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,19:43   

There was a backup up till Saturday, and it should be back online (minus posts since then) in a few hours.

I'll be sorry to have lost all those interesting comments to my Conching posts, but I've got the original backed up, and Gregory probably has his.

Life will go on....

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,20:21   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 26 2012,19:43)
There was a backup up till Saturday, and it should be back online (minus posts since then) in a few hours.

I'll be sorry to have lost all those interesting comments to my Conching posts, but I've got the original backed up, and Gregory probably has his.

Life will go on....


No worries, we'll be back! :)

  
Seversky



Posts: 415
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,20:23   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 26 2012,18:35)
Well, I seem to have inadvertently deleted the entire site.

Hope to have a backup up shortly.

Yikes.

You mean all those pearls from Gil, Joe and Greg are gone?

Well, that's...unfortunate.
:)

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 886
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2012,20:50   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 27 2012,12:43)
There was a backup up till Saturday, and it should be back online (minus posts since then) in a few hours.

I'll be sorry to have lost all those interesting comments to my Conching posts, but I've got the original backed up, and Gregory probably has his.

Life will go on....

If it helps I have tabs still open with the front page and the Good arguments and straw men thread. They were opened not long before the crash. Nothing else, though. I've copied them to Word - let me know if you want them.

--------------
“To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.” - Isaac Asimov

"Grow up, assface" - Joe G., grown up ID spokesperson, Sandwalk, April 2014

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,01:15   

It appears to be back up again.   Only obvious post missing is Conch

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,12:17   

Quote
Joe G:
Hi David vun Kannon,

Look if you really want to rape a chimp I will not hold it against you...

Sorry, Joe, you're not my type.


Quote
David vun Kannon: Sorry, Joe, you're not my type.

Can't rape the willing anyway


Gaydar fail by Joe G!

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,12:45   

Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 27 2012,12:17)
Quote
Joe G:
Hi David vun Kannon,

Look if you really want to rape a chimp I will not hold it against you...

Sorry, Joe, you're not my type.


 
Quote
David vun Kannon: Sorry, Joe, you're not my type.

Can't rape the willing anyway


Gaydar fail by Joe G!

I hope he's not gay. Them poor homosexualists have a hard enough time without having Joe on their books..

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,13:57   

Man...was I born under a bad sign or something? I posted at TSZ about 5 minutes ago and now the site is gone. What gives?

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,14:45   

I don't know,  I don't think it was my fault this time. I've put in a support request.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1482
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,14:46   

TSZ still down as of 12:45 PM PST

"Error loading page. Please contact the support team. "

--------------
JoeG: And by eating the cake you are consuming the information- some stays with you and the rest is waste.

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,15:08   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 27 2012,14:45)
I don't know,  I don't think it was my fault this time. I've put in a support request.

I'm sure it's not you, Lizzie. Possibly the site reacted badly to the crankiness I felt...

 ;)

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,16:47   

Mop up of JoeG bullshit on aisle 5.

Keep that shit on the Tardgasm thread.

Religious Vomit



--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,17:40   

There was a rogue plug in that I have now deactivated.  Sorry about that!

I'm going to keep things simple for a bit.

Also I've now, thanks to aiguy who sent me the lost texts, restored the Conching thread.

Any aisle-mopping will have to wait until tomorrow evening.

Cheers guys :)

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2012,11:32   

shoot, account suspended again!

I have no idea why!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2012,11:41   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 01 2012,11:32)
shoot, account suspended again!

I have no idea why!

Too much CSI?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2012,12:07   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 01 2012,11:41)
Quote (Febble @ Mar. 01 2012,11:32)
shoot, account suspended again!

I have no idea why!

Too much CSI?

Perhaps the Evolutionary Atheist Conspiracy had the site deleted because Joe was getting too close to disproving Darwinism.

Edit: to/too/two. whatever!

Edited by carlsonjok on Mar. 01 2012,12:08

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,13:17   

Connectivity to TSV up and down today. :-(

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1009
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,13:55   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 01 2012,11:32)
shoot, account suspended again!

I have no idea why!

On ScienceBlogs that usually happened when one of PZ's threads started getting too long. I don't know if Wordpress has the same issues but you might want to start a new thread when you get 500 or so comments...

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,13:55   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 04 2012,13:17)
Connectivity to TSV up and down today. :-(

I've sent in a ticket.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,13:56   

Quote (afarensis @ Mar. 04 2012,13:55)
Quote (Febble @ Mar. 01 2012,11:32)
shoot, account suspended again!

I have no idea why!

On ScienceBlogs that usually happened when one of PZ's threads started getting too long. I don't know if Wordpress has the same issues but you might want to start a new thread when you get 500 or so comments...

Good thought.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,13:58   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 04 2012,13:56)
Quote (afarensis @ Mar. 04 2012,13:55)
Quote (Febble @ Mar. 01 2012,11:32)
shoot, account suspended again!

I have no idea why!

On ScienceBlogs that usually happened when one of PZ's threads started getting too long. I don't know if Wordpress has the same issues but you might want to start a new thread when you get 500 or so comments...

Good thought.

And probably also multiple guano ones.

Minor navigation thought - it can be hard to go back and see precisely what people have said with the 'previous / next' set up.

But keep up the good work!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,14:00   

The hosting service doesn't think so, but I've closed the Holding Tank thread anyway.

I think it had run its course :)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,14:03   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 04 2012,14:00)
The hosting service doesn't think so, but I've closed the Holding Tank thread anyway.

I think it had run its course :)

I guess. Joe can always further develop his ideas on his blog, or maybe one day in code. All revolutionary ideas get scoffed at in the beginning.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 514
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,16:06   

I guess the best way to deal with Joe might be to ignore him. Otherwise, TSZ will be in perpetual derail until he finds somewhere else to irritate, in clueless ignorance of his own cluelessness.

But for the fact that I can't imagine anyone getting pleasure from such an activity, I'd say he is simply trolling for the attention. Then again, I thought that about Doug Dobney at Sandwalk too - when Larry was away, a 550-post megathread blew up, and he seemed to be just orchestrating the pro-science side into a frenzy for kicks. But I began to realise that he was deadly serious. And then I felt quite sorry for him.

Either way, if one has an interest in internet discussion, someone being ridiculous right in front of you, with those tiresome refrains and persistent misapprehension in response, is a hard lure to ignore. I decided to say nothing more to that fuckwit a long time back, but I haven't kept the promise entirely.

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,17:12   

Quote (Soapy Sam @ Mar. 04 2012,16:06)
I guess the best way to deal with Joe might be to ignore him. Otherwise, TSZ will be in perpetual derail until he finds somewhere else to irritate, in clueless ignorance of his own cluelessness.

But for the fact that I can't imagine anyone getting pleasure from such an activity, I'd say he is simply trolling for the attention. Then again, I thought that about Doug Dobney at Sandwalk too - when Larry was away, a 550-post megathread blew up, and he seemed to be just orchestrating the pro-science side into a frenzy for kicks. But I began to realise that he was deadly serious. And then I felt quite sorry for him.

Either way, if one has an interest in internet discussion, someone being ridiculous right in front of you, with those tiresome refrains and persistent misapprehension in response, is a hard lure to ignore. I decided to say nothing more to that fuckwit a long time back, but I haven't kept the promise entirely.

He's on every thread hardcore right now.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 514
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,17:30   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 04 2012,17:12)
 
Quote (Soapy Sam @ Mar. 04 2012,16:06)
I guess the best way to deal with Joe might be to ignore him. [...]

He's on every thread hardcore right now.

It's like getting fucking termites!

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 886
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,18:12   

Laugh out load moment (for me, anyway). Joe has another thread, this time on how Tiktaalik is somehow not a transitional. Bearing in mind a previous comment Joe is on his bestest behaviour, even prompting this:
 
Quote
So far three evos have responded and not one has demonstrated a reading of the OP.

Still staring at me Elizabeth?

However 9 comments later the dam bursts:
 
Quote
 
Quote
   Rich:
   Joe, I'm trying to talk specifics with you. please humour me. I wouldn't want readers to think you're being evasive, by asserting and not supporting.


Please read and respond to the OP- or go away

Elizabeth- Rich is being a fucking faggot- can you please do something about him.

...and you all know where it goes from there.

--------------
“To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.” - Isaac Asimov

"Grow up, assface" - Joe G., grown up ID spokesperson, Sandwalk, April 2014

  
The whole truth



Posts: 985
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,18:28   

Quote (Ptaylor @ Mar. 04 2012,16:12)
Laugh out load moment (for me, anyway). Joe has another thread, this time on how Tiktaalik is somehow not a transitional. Bearing in mind a previous comment Joe is on his bestest behaviour, even prompting this:
   
Quote
So far three evos have responded and not one has demonstrated a reading of the OP.

Still staring at me Elizabeth?

However 9 comments later the dam bursts:
   
Quote
   
Quote
   Rich:
   Joe, I'm trying to talk specifics with you. please humour me. I wouldn't want readers to think you're being evasive, by asserting and not supporting.


Please read and respond to the OP- or go away

Elizabeth- Rich is being a fucking faggot- can you please do something about him.

...and you all know where it goes from there.

And of course joe will claim that he's just responding to attacks on him.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2012,18:32   

There's a really nice post by Joe Felsenstein up.

  
paragwinn



Posts: 387
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,03:32   

From "Tiktaalik", Why it is a failed Prediction, a snippet of 'Joevolutionary Theory':
Quote
There isn't anything in [standard evolutionary] theory that says a transitional form will be around millions of years after the transition was made- you don't have any idea how evolution works


"Those who think they know Joevolutionary Theory don't know Joevolutionary Theory, they only know evotardism." - Feynard Richman, home healthcare worker

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
The geological maps that realist use to make money are all surface maps. -forastero

  
The whole truth



Posts: 985
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,04:58   

Quote (paragwinn @ Mar. 05 2012,01:32)
From "Tiktaalik", Why it is a failed Prediction, a snippet of 'Joevolutionary Theory':  
Quote
There isn't anything in [standard evolutionary] theory that says a transitional form will be around millions of years after the transition was made- you don't have any idea how evolution works


"Those who think they know Joevolutionary Theory don't know Joevolutionary Theory, they only know evotardism." - Feynard Richman, home healthcare worker

Yep, that's some major league tard that joe is spewing there. That guy is one tardtastic IDiot.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,12:42   

I've restricted posting to registered logged-in users, and I've installed a plug in to allow me to place individual users in moderation.

If I have to move one more comment from Joe G to guano I will put him in moderation.  Other posters are well below my last-straw threshold.

I will still post all comments, but game-rule-violating comments will go straight to guano.  I hope that will improve the SNR in the threads.

Joe G, I'm posting this in a number of places where you read so that you know.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,12:52   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 05 2012,12:42)
I've restricted posting to registered logged-in users, and I've installed a plug in to allow me to place individual users in moderation.

If I have to move one more comment from Joe G to guano I will put him in moderation.  Other posters are well below my last-straw threshold.

I will still post all comments, but game-rule-violating comments will go straight to guano.  I hope that will improve the SNR in the threads.

Joe G, I'm posting this in a number of places where you read so that you know.

It was always going to happen. Just be prepared for faux martyrdom.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,12:59   

That's OK.  As I said, there will be no censorship, everything will be posted, it's just that I'd rather move stuff before it hits the thread, not after.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3305
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,13:11   

Quote (Soapy Sam @ Mar. 04 2012,16:06)
I guess the best way to deal with Joe might be to ignore him. Otherwise, TSZ will be in perpetual derail until he finds somewhere else to irritate, in clueless ignorance of his own cluelessness.

But for the fact that I can't imagine anyone getting pleasure from such an activity, I'd say he is simply trolling for the attention. Then again, I thought that about Doug Dobney at Sandwalk too - when Larry was away, a 550-post megathread blew up, and he seemed to be just orchestrating the pro-science side into a frenzy for kicks. But I began to realise that he was deadly serious. And then I felt quite sorry for him.

Either way, if one has an interest in internet discussion, someone being ridiculous right in front of you, with those tiresome refrains and persistent misapprehension in response, is a hard lure to ignore. I decided to say nothing more to that fuckwit a long time back, but I haven't kept the promise entirely.

I banned Joe from my blog almost 9 months ago.  He still tries to get comments through.  He has more comments on my blog than I have posts on my blog.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,13:43   

Well, he got Guanoed again. I wonder if he's moderated now?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1482
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,13:52   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 05 2012,13:43)
Well, he got Guanoed again. I wonder if he's moderated now?

The idea of Joe cleaning up his act to stay out of moderation immediately reminded me of this:



--------------
JoeG: And by eating the cake you are consuming the information- some stays with you and the rest is waste.

  
eigenstate



Posts: 76
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,14:33   

Too bad for Elizabeth, and the TSZ. I don't know how you guys do it, Joe's trolling is just WAY too damn fatiguing and boring to deal with.

Really, life is to short to live as troll fodder for Joe.

And that's what TSZ has become, now. It's Joe's forum, now.

I wanted to post on the GA thread -- I am one who has invested, personally, several person-years, and many more person-years have been put in by my team, on commercial applications of genetic algorithms. It's an interesting, underdeveloped topic.

But I'd be a fool to waste my time on that thread.

Joe has the upper hand, at this point. The advantage goes to the troll in these situations. It takes a collective commitment to not feed the troll to stem the problem, and Joe's a very capable troll.

I thought Felsenstein's post was good, but what's the point? As soon as any attention gets invested in it, Joe just moves over there, and the post is nullified.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,14:40   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 05 2012,14:43)
Well, he got Guanoed again. I wonder if he's moderated now?

I wonder if his boyfriend Barry has been watching

And Mr Leathers!!!!!! <gasp>

What would Gordon say?  *you have been warned Joseph*

ROFLMAO

I still hope there was a bigger purpose for letting that idiot loose there!  Like, "On tard and tardmongers:  insights into the psychology of a tard" or some shit like that.  Because if not then jesus that shit was inevitable

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,14:40   

and

OM, OA, Rich, whoever else, you guys are bloody hilarious

Edited by Erasmus, FCD on Mar. 05 2012,15:41

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,14:43   

I'd be delighted if someone would like to post a new GA post.

Joe is now in moderation.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,15:24   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 05 2012,14:43)
I'd be delighted if someone would like to post a new GA post.

Joe is now in moderation.

Anything specific? GA primers, or 'can they create information', or 'are they front loaded' or...?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,15:39   

Quote (eigenstate @ Mar. 05 2012,14:33)
Too bad for Elizabeth, and the TSZ. I don't know how you guys do it, Joe's trolling is just WAY too damn fatiguing and boring to deal with.

Really, life is to short to live as troll fodder for Joe.

And that's what TSZ has become, now. It's Joe's forum, now.

I wanted to post on the GA thread -- I am one who has invested, personally, several person-years, and many more person-years have been put in by my team, on commercial applications of genetic algorithms. It's an interesting, underdeveloped topic.

But I'd be a fool to waste my time on that thread.

Joe has the upper hand, at this point. The advantage goes to the troll in these situations. It takes a collective commitment to not feed the troll to stem the problem, and Joe's a very capable troll.

I thought Felsenstein's post was good, but what's the point? As soon as any attention gets invested in it, Joe just moves over there, and the post is nullified.

I'm pretty sure I can keep him bogged down in his own thread, now I've got him attributing things to Schubin that he's never said.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,15:45   

Struggling with the wretched plug-in!

I guess I'll figure it out....

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3305
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,15:52   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 05 2012,14:43)
I'd be delighted if someone would like to post a new GA post.

Joe is now in moderation.

I could expand this one if you like: http://ogremk5.wordpress.com/2011....help-id

Or you can just use it.  I think Joe complained that I didn't know what front-loading was... of course he called me too stupid to understand the real answer.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
JohnW



Posts: 2238
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,15:59   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 05 2012,13:52)
I think Joe complained that I didn't know what front-loading was... of course he called me too stupid to understand the real answer.

That's all?  No reference to bottoms, coprophagy or penis size?  He likes you, Ogre!

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 514
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,16:16   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 05 2012,14:43)
I'd be delighted if someone would like to post a new GA post.

Joe is now in moderation.

Discussing this perhaps? A simple GA mimicking evolution of an 'engineering' solution ... - complex and nothing 'smuggled-in', other than a means of distinguishing 'better' from 'worse' according to the function being selected for (counting out time).

(If I were attempting to persuade ID-ers with it, I would be for editing some of the text with which the simulation is introduced - guaranteed to alienate the target audience with haughty tone!).

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 886
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,16:34   

Uh-oh - Elizabeth:
 
Quote
Well, it looks like the WP plug-in writers hadn't envisaged that blog-owners might grant posting rights to people whose comments they might want to moderate, so it's possible that your posts on your own threads may escape my eagle eye.

So I shall have to call on your better nature, Joe G.


--------------
“To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.” - Isaac Asimov

"Grow up, assface" - Joe G., grown up ID spokesperson, Sandwalk, April 2014

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,16:38   

It's OK, I think it just applies to his own threads.  I'll draw the Tiktaalik one to a close shortly.

  
Henry J



Posts: 4069
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2012,22:59   

Tiktaalik? That guy was rather fishy for a frog! :p

Henry

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2012,22:05   

Looks like with its instant comment promotion, no moderation for adults and respect for both viewpoints, TSZ is killing UD. Shame on you UD, look at what you could have been if you weren't a propaganda machine. Might as well put in for that DI sponsorship now...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
socle



Posts: 267
Joined: July 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,14:35   

William J. Murray:
   
Quote
So, when you guys reference the supposedly vast amount of evidence contained in those papers, how many of them have you read? All of them that you are referring to - meaning, all of them, or else how would you know they all agree with NDE, or your particular understanding of it? Have you read "most" of the papers ever published relating to evolutionary biology? Dating back to when?

Careful how you answer, because then the question becomes: why this apparently obsessive compulsion to educate yourself so thoroughly in fields outside of your expertise so that you can independently evaluate research data about NDE? Why is it so important to you?



So if you haven't read "most" of the papers relating to evolutionary biology, you are unqualified to participate in a discussion of the science (as WJM admits to being).  If you have read the evolutionary biology literature extensively, then that is evidence of an "obsessive compulsion".  Brilliant!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,16:37   

It's "viewpoint equivalence" evolved into "ignorance equivalence"

Teach the no-one understands controversy!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
eigenstate



Posts: 76
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,18:46   

So, I just posted at TSZ, on a thread started by WJM. It didn't immediately show up. Are TSZ posts all moderated, now, or is this up to the thread owner?

I'm registered there, etc. I recall the posting being "immediate" which is cool.

Did this change, anyone know?

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,19:11   

Yes, it changed due to you know who. First posts are moderated. After that it should go smoothly.

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....0

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
raguel



Posts: 107
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,21:40   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 07 2012,16:37)
It's "viewpoint equivalence" evolved into "ignorance equivalence"

Teach the no-one understands controversy!

I read that, possibly less charitably, as  he doesn't understand how some people find science interesting. It's funny that now that I'm out of college I read more science article than I ever did when I was earning my degree.  (and most of it is on biology, which I found to be dull in high school and in college)


It's a pretty jaw-dropping quote, at any rate.

  
eigenstate



Posts: 76
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,22:03   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 07 2012,19:11)
Yes, it changed due to you know who. First posts are moderated. After that it should go smoothly.

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....0....wp....0

OK thanks.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,05:34   

Let me know here if you have any problems.  

I'm sorry it's not as easy to post as it was, but there are already benefits, I think.

ETA: I will release everything except spam, but some things may be sent directly to guano.  So, still no censorship, but some control over the rate and direction of flow :)

Edited by Febble on Mar. 08 2012,05:36

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,08:32   

Hmmm...I registered an account since I've not done so since the change, and I tried to change my profile picture. No dice. Any hints about how to do that? I selected a .jpg, sized it, and hit save, but the default illustration was not replaced.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,10:11   

Quote (Robin @ Mar. 08 2012,08:32)
Hmmm...I registered an account since I've not done so since the change, and I tried to change my profile picture. No dice. Any hints about how to do that? I selected a .jpg, sized it, and hit save, but the default illustration was not replaced.

I had the same problem; tried several times but nothing showed up so I gave up and closed the browser.  Later when I went to try again, there on my profile was the photo that I thought had failed to load.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,19:29   



GIGO

Find it on the BW.

Edited by Lou FCD on Mar. 08 2012,20:33

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2012,01:39   

I noticed that TSZ tries to plant LSO (= Flash) cookies. Of course my browser plug-in catches them, I am just wondering why these cookies are necessary.

Otherwise, a great blog - congratz!

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
olegt



Posts: 1387
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2012,08:24   

For whatever reason, my comment in WJM's thread was marked for moderation after I edited it. Bug?

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2012,11:29   

Looks like Joe's given up on TSZ but is posting his own devastating critique on Joenetic Algorithms on his popular blog.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Seversky



Posts: 415
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 12 2012,19:24   

What's up with TSZ?  Anyone else having problems getting in?

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 12 2012,20:49   

Quote (Seversky @ Mar. 12 2012,19:24)
What's up with TSZ?  Anyone else having problems getting in?

Yes, intermittently I get "page not found" errors.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2012,03:37   

I'm trying to fix these technical things, but I'm no expert at the back end of servers.  If anyone is, and would like to volunteer as sysadmin I'd be grateful!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 13 2012,10:36   

Does increasing CSI inrease William J Murray's pissyness?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 514
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2012,06:24   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 13 2012,10:36)
Does increasing CSI inrease William J Murray's pissyness?

If he was chocolate, he'd eat himself!

     
Quote
So, here's the point: unless you can show NS to select more for increased CSI than against increased CSI, you have no basis for the claim that NS adds anything to the search for increased CSI.

OMG, that is such a sweet argument. Short, concise, and perfect. This is why I take the time and effort in forums like this.


(It's a piss-poor argument, crying out for the biological understanding that WJM considers superfluous to the discussion (he's got logic an' stuff), but I haven't the energy to dissect it!)

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2012,14:23   

Genius:

Quote
All of this reminds me of the joke that charisma is that indefinable, ineffable quality that girls with big jugs have. Or in this case, CSI is that incalculable property possessed only by objects we already decided were Designed.



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 514
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2012,19:30   

Strange bedfellows: (WJM, to Joe)      
Quote
It's a waste of time if you're trying to get them to understand. It's not a waste of time if it's the most effective way of killing time during slow periods at work.

He toys with us, for funzies. Good job we'd never stoop so low.

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
Leftfield



Posts: 98
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2012,21:02   

Another reason not to bother trying to convince WJM of anything based on science:

Link
 
Quote
I dont believe in things because evidence or argument compels me to; I believe in them because I choose to.

Some of my beliefs I can make logical and/or evidential arguments for; others, I cannot, but my belief in any of them is not predicated upon being able to make such arguments. I believe what I choose; not what I must. I choose to believe in ID; I choose to believe in God, and II choose to believe in a universal, objective good.


--------------
Speaking for myself, I have long been confused . . .-Denyse O'Leary

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2012,21:26   

fuck at least he is honest

not that bright though.  to hell with the law of noncontradiction, if that's the way you roll you don't have common ground with reality much less predicates and syntax



--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
DiEb



Posts: 235
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,02:08   

Sigh. Another moderation queue. Yesterday I made my first comment (as DiEb), now I'm waiting for it to appear at Creating CSI with NS. Unfortunately, there isn't even a notice (your comment is awaiting moderation), so I don't know whether commenting worked at all...

   
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,04:19   

I can't see your comment either - must have failed to upload I think.

There's nothing in the moderation queue, nor the spam filter.

Can you try again?

I'm sorry the software is glitchy.  Unfortunately I don't have the expertise to optimise it.  I'll gradually try and fix the glitches, but each new fix seems to come with another downside.

ETA: I have now switched you as unmoderated at the back end, so you should be able to post straight away.

Edited by Febble on Mar. 15 2012,04:21

  
DiEb



Posts: 235
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,05:14   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 15 2012,10:19)
I can't see your comment either - must have failed to upload I think.

There's nothing in the moderation queue, nor the spam filter.

Can you try again?

I'm sorry the software is glitchy.  Unfortunately I don't have the expertise to optimise it.  I'll gradually try and fix the glitches, but each new fix seems to come with another downside.

ETA: I have now switched you as unmoderated at the back end, so you should be able to post straight away.

Quote
ETA: I have now switched you as unmoderated at the back end, so you should be able to post straight away.
Thanks, and thanks for looking! It's absolutely possible that I botched it...

Quote
Can you try again?
I haven't saved my comment. What a pity: it was the one last edit to end all editing, the one comment which made all further comments superfluous. But let bygones be bygones - I'll mumble on in my usual manner :-)

   
The whole truth



Posts: 985
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,06:13   

Quote (DiEb @ Mar. 15 2012,03:14)
Quote (Febble @ Mar. 15 2012,10:19)
I can't see your comment either - must have failed to upload I think.

There's nothing in the moderation queue, nor the spam filter.

Can you try again?

I'm sorry the software is glitchy.  Unfortunately I don't have the expertise to optimise it.  I'll gradually try and fix the glitches, but each new fix seems to come with another downside.

ETA: I have now switched you as unmoderated at the back end, so you should be able to post straight away.

 
Quote
ETA: I have now switched you as unmoderated at the back end, so you should be able to post straight away.
Thanks, and thanks for looking! It's absolutely possible that I botched it...

 
Quote
Can you try again?
I haven't saved my comment. What a pity: it was the one last edit to end all editing, the one comment which made all further comments superfluous. But let bygones be bygones - I'll mumble on in my usual manner :-)

You might want to look at this.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
damitall



Posts: 323
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,06:42   

Liz reports that kairosfocus has attempted to post at TSZ, but got caught in a spam-trap.

(I haven't bothered looking to see if she's set it free, since I might be tempted to read it, and I'm nearing the limit of my capacity for being told that Western Civilisation is on the steep slope to perdition, because chi-squared and Plato, or something)

Surely that post, from that poster, means UD has twitched its last anti-evolutionary spasm?

Do we get to dance on its grave?

  
k.e..



Posts: 2898
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,06:48   

Quote (damitall @ Mar. 15 2012,14:42)
Liz reports that kairosfocus has attempted to post at TSZ, but got caught in a spam-trap.

(I haven't bothered looking to see if she's set it free, since I might be tempted to read it, and I'm nearing the limit of my capacity for being told that Western Civilisation is on the steep slope to perdition, because chi-squared and Plato, or something)

Surely that post, from that poster, means UD has twitched its last anti-evolutionary spasm?

Do we get to dance on its grave?

Well who's left?

Teh Frill, Barry, the other blind mullets and sox^^150.

I hope Lizzy sticks here arm down the S bend and pulls KF out and hangs him out to dry.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
The whole truth



Posts: 985
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,06:50   

Quote (damitall @ Mar. 15 2012,04:42)
Liz reports that kairosfocus has attempted to post at TSZ, but got caught in a spam-trap.

(I haven't bothered looking to see if she's set it free, since I might be tempted to read it, and I'm nearing the limit of my capacity for being told that Western Civilisation is on the steep slope to perdition, because chi-squared and Plato, or something)

Surely that post, from that poster, means UD has twitched its last anti-evolutionary spasm?

Do we get to dance on its grave?

A spam trap is a fitting place for gordo.  :D

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,07:12   

Quote (damitall @ Mar. 15 2012,06:42)
Liz reports that kairosfocus has attempted to post at TSZ, but got caught in a spam-trap.

(I haven't bothered looking to see if she's set it free, since I might be tempted to read it, and I'm nearing the limit of my capacity for being told that Western Civilisation is on the steep slope to perdition, because chi-squared and Plato, or something)

Surely that post, from that poster, means UD has twitched its last anti-evolutionary spasm?

Do we get to dance on its grave?

So, I guess he figured out that the increase in the ratio of views to comments over at UD had more to do with the denominator than the numerator.   He may not be smart, but he sure is slow.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
The whole truth



Posts: 985
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,07:15   



--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,07:45   

Quote (damitall @ Mar. 15 2012,06:42)
Liz reports that kairosfocus has attempted to post at TSZ, but got caught in a spam-trap.

(I haven't bothered looking to see if she's set it free, since I might be tempted to read it, and I'm nearing the limit of my capacity for being told that Western Civilisation is on the steep slope to perdition, because chi-squared and Plato, or something)

Surely that post, from that poster, means UD has twitched its last anti-evolutionary spasm?

Do we get to dance on its grave?

She did set it free but doesn't know where it was.
See this comment and the next one.

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....n....nt-8099

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,08:34   

Joetard saying "we" again on the "Creating CSI with NS" thread of gold

Quote (Captain Guano @ March 14, 2012 at 6:40 pm)
Well that is how science operates- we observe some result and try to explain it- what it is, what it does and how it came to be the way it is.


he definitely cupping someone else's balls while he be talkin

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,11:01   

Joe is bringing KF aka GEM aka Gordon E Mullings aka "repeatdely 'stumbles upon' and consumes porn" up to speed at UD.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3305
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,11:15   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 15 2012,11:01)
Joe is bringing KF aka GEM aka Gordon E Mullings aka "repeatdely 'stumbles upon' and consumes porn" up to speed at UD.

1) I DO NOT want to know their bedroom antics.

2) How in the hell do you know about their bedroom antics...

no don't answer that.  I don't want to know that either.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,11:20   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 15 2012,11:01)
Joe is bringing KF aka GEM aka Gordon E Mullings aka "repeatdely 'stumbles upon' and consumes porn" up to speed at UD.

So, two questions come to mind:

1.  Will Mullings actually venture out from behind Barry's skirt and appear at TSZ?

2. If he does,  how long will it take for him to complain about the poisonous atmosphere and incivility, demand an apology, and scurry back to the safer confines of UD?

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2012,11:43   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 15 2012,12:15)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 15 2012,11:01)
Joe is bringing KF aka GEM aka Gordon E Mullings aka "repeatdely 'stumbles upon' and consumes porn" up to speed at UD.

1) I DO NOT want to know their bedroom antics.

2) How in the hell do you know about their bedroom antics...

no don't answer that.  I don't want to know that either.

Rich is KF i thought you knew.  fucking brilliant sock

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 16 2012,07:03   

KF is trying to proof Elizabeth Liddle wrong - by posting his comments over at UD.

I haven't yet decided if he is a coward, a weirdo, or both.

Link points to TSZ, of course.  :p

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
REC



Posts: 571
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 16 2012,11:28   

William J. Murray wins my too-honest comment award:

Quote
Ultimately, science doesn't resolve anything anyway, IMO. ... I think there are very few ID proponents that would disagree with me on that one. Ultimately, what resolves things - towards any conclusion - is one's deep worldview, not data.


I think for him, and ID proponents, this is the truth.

Link

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 16 2012,11:55   

i love postmodern fundies

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 514
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 16 2012,12:29   

Quote (REC @ Mar. 16 2012,11:28)
William J. Murray wins my too-honest comment award:

   
Quote
Ultimately, science doesn't resolve anything anyway, IMO. ... I think there are very few ID proponents that would disagree with me on that one. Ultimately, what resolves things - towards any conclusion - is one's deep worldview, not data.


I think for him, and ID proponents, this is the truth.

Link

Thank heavens that the deep worldview of the cancer specialists that saved my friend's life was oriented in the direction of 'stuff-that-seems-to-work'. I bet they had a peek at some data, too.

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
damitall



Posts: 323
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 16 2012,13:00   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ Mar. 16 2012,07:03)
KF is trying to proof Elizabeth Liddle wrong - by posting his comments over at UD.

I haven't yet decided if he is a coward, a weirdo, or both.

Link points to TSZ, of course.  :p

He's both, of course - but I think he's probably trying to lure a fresh drawerful of socks over there to liven the place up a bit.
But we remain in an attitude of hostile (and amused) observation!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2012,23:46   

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the odious fuckwitt, William J Murray

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2012,23:56   

Bonus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....related

Giving him a forum was an interesting experiment, but I hope Joe and him are done posting.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4491
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2012,00:54   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 17 2012,23:56)
Bonus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....related

Giving him a forum was an interesting experiment, but I hope Joe and him are done posting.

"rayshists" ... "cast dispersions"

Wow.

I already thought he was incoherent in his posts.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2012,03:33   

Moderator at 3:07:
Quote
We live in a pluralistic society, we have Christians, we have Catholics, we have Muslims, we have Jewish people, ...


--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Raevmo



Posts: 235
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2012,04:24   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 17 2012,23:46)
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the odious fuckwitt, William J Murray

No, it's not that William J Murray, it's this one.

--------------
After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM.

--GilDodgen

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2012,05:00   

Actually, it's this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Anarchi....9500824

  
Raevmo



Posts: 235
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2012,06:11   

Quote (Febble @ Mar. 18 2012,05:00)
Actually, it's this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Anarchi....9500824

Is that a different one? Is there a way on Amazon.com to tell apart different authors by the same name?

--------------
After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM.

--GilDodgen

  
olegt



Posts: 1387
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2012,08:30   

He is a New Age type.
Quote
BTW, I don't know which book you ordered, but they don't equally examine the views I express here. Anarchic Harmony is more of a 100-page anti-authority, anti-convention rant than anything else, but I've always been fond of Robert Anton Wilson's introduction. Unconditional Freedom is a more in-depth explanation of my views. Please keep in mind that I wrote both of those about 20 years ago, so my views have changed and developed over that time.

Both of those books are now out of print and are now only available via the second-hand market. For something more current, you might try "Instant Enlightenment", available as a digital download from Lulu.com. Cheap, at $2.50, and brief (as the term "instant" indicates) at 40 pages. But, I don't get into any "explanation" in IE; it's more of just a how-to book.


--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2012,08:57   

so are these dicks all the same dick?

i am having a bit of trouble connecting the moonbat yammering about rayhsists to the moonbat yammering about his "i choose to believe it so it is true" christian castaneda-ism at TSZ

i am fairly sure that the cat who wrote the book on divegrass is neither one of these shitstains but i tell you what that is a shitty toupee on the y00t00b

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2012,09:16   

At least he warns us against being arrogant.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2012,19:37   

"Anarchic Harmony: The Spirituality of Social Disobedience [Paperback]
William J. Murray (Author)

13 used from $0.36"

A bit steep, that. I think I'll pass.

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2012,10:26   

Quote (olegt @ Mar. 18 2012,08:30)
He is a New Age type.
Quote
BTW, I don't know which book you ordered, but they don't equally examine the views I express here. Anarchic Harmony is more of a 100-page anti-authority, anti-convention rant than anything else, but I've always been fond of Robert Anton Wilson's introduction. Unconditional Freedom is a more in-depth explanation of my views. Please keep in mind that I wrote both of those about 20 years ago, so my views have changed and developed over that time.

Both of those books are now out of print and are now only available via the second-hand market. For something more current, you might try "Instant Enlightenment", available as a digital download from Lulu.com. Cheap, at $2.50, and brief (as the term "instant" indicates) at 40 pages. But, I don't get into any "explanation" in IE; it's more of just a how-to book.

I think they prefer the term "New Age Baramin".

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2012,14:10   

On TSZ Joe is currently sharing his wisdom.

Elizabeth, on a single page Joe has used both barrels of the single gun he has.

1: A "totally different type of biology"
2: It's the origin of CSI that matters!

These two points seem to be at the core of his argument, such as it is. He's been using them for years.

The first point is a reference to something Dawkins has said. And it seems because Dawkins said it Joe can use it over and over, immune to any counter argument. As can be seen on the thread currently. http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....nt-8740
You've already asked him why it matters, but you won't get an answer.

I think it's probably worth pressing Joe on the "origin" issue some more, the quote from Dembski a couple of pages back has it.

So Joe fixates on some quote and it becomes part of his routine. You'll never "unlearn" it from him.

Or will you....

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2012,09:43   

Quote
Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /wp/wp-comments-post.php on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


I haven't seen any new comments since this started.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2012,20:29   

Hi Liz,

Could you grant me posting privileges at TSZ?

Thanks.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2012,23:42   

Quote (keiths @ Mar. 22 2012,20:29)
Hi Liz,

Could you grant me posting privileges at TSZ?

Thanks.

Do it for the bananas and the ravens!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2012,09:52   

Quote (keiths @ Mar. 22 2012,20:29)
Hi Liz,

Could you grant me posting privileges at TSZ?

Thanks.

Done.

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2012,20:05   

Thanks, Liz.

For the curious, Richard is referring to the one time I defended something that David Coppedge said, a discussion that went on for days and involved bananas, ravens, and Richard's, um, predilections...

Quote (keiths @ Oct. 18 2009,11:26)
Quote (Raevmo @ Oct. 17 2009,16:32)
Of course, if N is large - and it is very large - observing a yellow banana has almost no effect at all on our posterior

Speak for yourself.  Richardthughes feels a tingling in his posterior when he sees a yellow banana, particularly if it is large.


Edited by keiths on Mar. 23 2012,18:09

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2012,23:14   

Quote (keiths @ Mar. 23 2012,20:05)
Thanks, Liz.

For the curious, Richard is referring to the one time I defended something that David Coppedge said, a discussion that went on for days and involved bananas, ravens, and Richard's, um, predilections...

Quote (keiths @ Oct. 18 2009,11:26)
Quote (Raevmo @ Oct. 17 2009,16:32)
Of course, if N is large - and it is very large - observing a yellow banana has almost no effect at all on our posterior

Speak for yourself.  Richardthughes feels a tingling in his posterior when he sees a yellow banana, particularly if it is large.

To be fair, that's the gerbil thinking it's going to be fed.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
olegt



Posts: 1387
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,07:10   

Liz,

I am experiencing a technical problem with comments. For example, WordPress won't let me post this fairly innocuous reply on the thread about the 2nd law. I preserve the WordPress formatting.
Quote

I'd like to discuss this excerpt from Sewell's ENV piece:
<blockquote>There are some problems, however. While one can certainly define a "poker entropy" as S_p = k_p log (W) and have a nice formula for entropy which increases when probability increases, why should the constant k_p used be equal to the Boltzmann constant k_B? In fact, it is not clear why poker entropy should have units of Joules/degree Kelvin. In the case of thermal entropy, the constant is chosen so that the statistical definition of thermal entropy agrees with the standard macroscopic definition. But there is no standard definition for poker entropy to match, so the constant k_p can be chosen arbitrarily. If we do arbitrarily set k_p = k_B, so that the units match, <strong>it still does not make any sense to add poker entropy and thermal entropy changes to see if the result is positive or not. It is not clear how the fact that thermal entropy is increasing in the rest of the universe makes it easier to get a highly improbable poker hand.</strong> Of course, all these problems also exist with respect to Styer and Bunn's analyses of the entropy associated with evolution; at least with poker entropy we don't have to take wild guesses at the probabilities involved.
</blockquote>
The confusion over the units, while funny, is a minor problem. It's the highlighted two sentences that are most interesting.


On a related note, could you add a thread opening privilege for me as well?

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,10:42   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2012,23:14)
Quote (keiths @ Mar. 23 2012,20:05)
Thanks, Liz.

For the curious, Richard is referring to the one time I defended something that David Coppedge said, a discussion that went on for days and involved bananas, ravens, and Richard's, um, predilections...

 
Quote (keiths @ Oct. 18 2009,11:26)
 
Quote (Raevmo @ Oct. 17 2009,16:32)
Of course, if N is large - and it is very large - observing a yellow banana has almost no effect at all on our posterior

Speak for yourself.  Richardthughes feels a tingling in his posterior when he sees a yellow banana, particularly if it is large.

To be fair, that's the gerbil thinking it's going to be fed.

You know those pointless forum posts, where somebody, apparently with nothing better to do and having nothing of any real substance to say, simply comments about the hilarity of somebody else's witticism, saying something like "LOL" or even "ROTFL" or possibly even something about cleaning off the spray from their computer monitor?

This is one of those posts.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,11:03   

Quote (NormOlsen @ Mar. 24 2012,11:42)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2012,23:14)
Quote (keiths @ Mar. 23 2012,20:05)
Thanks, Liz.

For the curious, Richard is referring to the one time I defended something that David Coppedge said, a discussion that went on for days and involved bananas, ravens, and Richard's, um, predilections...

 
Quote (keiths @ Oct. 18 2009,11:26)
 
Quote (Raevmo @ Oct. 17 2009,16:32)
Of course, if N is large - and it is very large - observing a yellow banana has almost no effect at all on our posterior

Speak for yourself.  Richardthughes feels a tingling in his posterior when he sees a yellow banana, particularly if it is large.

To be fair, that's the gerbil thinking it's going to be fed.

You know those pointless forum posts, where somebody, apparently with nothing better to do and having nothing of any real substance to say, simply comments about the hilarity of somebody else's witticism, saying something like "LOL" or even "ROTFL" or possibly even something about cleaning off the spray from their computer monitor?

This is one of those posts.

i love those posts they make me lolroftlmaowtfbbq

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,12:31   

My favorite Richtard comment from that thread:
Quote (RichardtHughes @ Oct. 19 2009,07:55)
There once was a homo called Keiths
Who had strange posterior beliefs
Ravens, Bananas,
Crammed up his pyjamas
to ascertain whether Hempel's paradox expressed as a hypothesis is a true representation of inductive logic for a finite set of entities working under other a priori assumptions such as the uniformity of nature.


--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,15:15   

Quote (olegt @ Mar. 24 2012,07:10)
Liz,

I am experiencing a technical problem with comments. For example, WordPress won't let me post this fairly innocuous reply on the thread about the 2nd law. I preserve the WordPress formatting.
   
Quote

I'd like to discuss this excerpt from Sewell's ENV piece:
<blockquote>There are some problems, however. While one can certainly define a "poker entropy" as S_p = k_p log (W) and have a nice formula for entropy which increases when probability increases, why should the constant k_p used be equal to the Boltzmann constant k_B? In fact, it is not clear why poker entropy should have units of Joules/degree Kelvin. In the case of thermal entropy, the constant is chosen so that the statistical definition of thermal entropy agrees with the standard macroscopic definition. But there is no standard definition for poker entropy to match, so the constant k_p can be chosen arbitrarily. If we do arbitrarily set k_p = k_B, so that the units match, <strong>it still does not make any sense to add poker entropy and thermal entropy changes to see if the result is positive or not. It is not clear how the fact that thermal entropy is increasing in the rest of the universe makes it easier to get a highly improbable poker hand.</strong> Of course, all these problems also exist with respect to Styer and Bunn's analyses of the entropy associated with evolution; at least with poker entropy we don't have to take wild guesses at the probabilities involved.
</blockquote>
The confusion over the units, while funny, is a minor problem. It's the highlighted two sentences that are most interesting.


On a related note, could you add a thread opening privilege for me as well?

Done.

I still haven't got to the bottom of WordPress logic regarding holding posts for moderation.

But I do check in pretty regularly, and release the hostages asap.

The system does allow control over the flow of Joe G posts, so I'm inclined to put up with it for now.

ETA: I inserted the text of your post above into your "test" post:

http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....nt-8988

which neatly allowed me to preserve your authorship :)

Edited by Febble on Mar. 24 2012,15:17

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,16:57   

Quote (NormOlsen @ Mar. 24 2012,10:42)
*snip*


You know those pointless forum posts, where somebody, apparently with nothing better to do and having nothing of any real substance to say, simply comments about the hilarity of somebody else's witticism, saying something like "LOL" or even "ROTFL" or possibly even something about cleaning off the spray from their computer monitor?

This is one of those posts.

Siri, take NormOlson off my Christmas card list and mail him a dog turd.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,17:00   

Quote (NormOlsen @ Mar. 24 2012,10:42)
*snip*

You know those pointless forum posts, where somebody, apparently with nothing better to do and having nothing of any real substance to say, simply comments about the hilarity of somebody else's witticism, saying something like "LOL" or even "ROTFL" or possibly even something about cleaning off the spray from their computer monitor?

This is one of those posts.

Siri, take NormOlsen off my Christmas card list and mail him a dog turd.

Edited to spell name right.

Edited by Richardthughes on Mar. 24 2012,17:01

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
rhmc



Posts: 340
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,17:19   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 24 2012,18:00)
Quote (NormOlsen @ Mar. 24 2012,10:42)
*snip*

You know those pointless forum posts, where somebody, apparently with nothing better to do and having nothing of any real substance to say, simply comments about the hilarity of somebody else's witticism, saying something like "LOL" or even "ROTFL" or possibly even something about cleaning off the spray from their computer monitor?

This is one of those posts.

Siri, take NormOlsen off my Christmas card list and mail him a dog turd.

Edited to spell name right.

lol?

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,18:21   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 24 2012,17:00)
Quote (NormOlsen @ Mar. 24 2012,10:42)
*snip*

You know those pointless forum posts, where somebody, apparently with nothing better to do and having nothing of any real substance to say, simply comments about the hilarity of somebody else's witticism, saying something like "LOL" or even "ROTFL" or possibly even something about cleaning off the spray from their computer monitor?

This is one of those posts.

Siri, take NormOlsen off my Christmas card list and mail him a dog turd.

Edited to spell name right.

From now on I will call you "rock god", OK?

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2012,19:05   

Quote (NormOlsen @ Mar. 24 2012,18:21)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 24 2012,17:00)
Quote (NormOlsen @ Mar. 24 2012,10:42)
*snip*

You know those pointless forum posts, where somebody, apparently with nothing better to do and having nothing of any real substance to say, simply comments about the hilarity of somebody else's witticism, saying something like "LOL" or even "ROTFL" or possibly even something about cleaning off the spray from their computer monitor?

This is one of those posts.

Siri, take NormOlsen off my Christmas card list and mail him a dog turd.

Edited to spell name right.

From now on I will call you "rock god", OK?

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
olegt



Posts: 1387
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2012,07:07   

Joe's sandbox seems to have disappeared from the list of threads.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2012,07:54   

Quote (olegt @ Mar. 28 2012,07:07)
Joe's sandbox seems to have disappeared from the list of threads.

It's been turned into a permanent page and got its own link on top of the homepage.

Edited for slightly better grammar.

Edited by Kattarina98 on Mar. 28 2012,07:55

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 14 2012,17:33   

A little dissapointed with Lizzie.

Reproduced here:

Quote
Rich on April 14, 2012 at 11:27 pm said:
I see my post asking Sal about Darwin’s puppy beating has been moved to “Guano” and I take great exception to this. Sal has the audacity to to post about “Rotteness (sic) in Creationism” and yet for many he exemplifies this. Whilst this may be regarded ad ad hominem, we are talking about character and integrity.

Please review:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....ies.php

and

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....sty.php

So I’d like an answer, what are Sal’s current views on Darwin beating puppies? If you’re going to post on rottenness in creationism, your record is fair game.



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
utidjian



Posts: 185
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 15 2012,13:27   

Is there some sort of internationally (or even AtBC_ally) recognized award for public display of herculean patience? If so... Leviathan gets it for the Airfoil Myth replies to Sal Cordova.

-DU-

--------------
Being laughed at doesn't mean you're progressing along some line. It probably just means you're saying some stupid shit -stevestory

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 15 2012,15:45   

This is why it is folly to give odious douche-bag Sal Cordova a forum:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y205132

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
paragwinn



Posts: 387
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 15 2012,20:43   

Where Sal slithers in, Robert Byers cant be far behind:  
Quote
Modern Creationism has become very effective and famous and progressively taking down the old strongholds of evolutionary error or anything denying the fingerprints of God in nature.

Now if that aint evidence for a multiverse, i dont know what is. Could Byers' presence on Earth be ambassadorial in nature?

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
The geological maps that realist use to make money are all surface maps. -forastero

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 20 2012,09:42   

William J Murray and Sal Cordova are certainly adding a certain flavour to TsZ.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 20 2012,10:19   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 20 2012,09:42)
William J Murray and Sal Cordova are certainly adding a certain flavour to TsZ.

Give them credit for being ID's best and brightest.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2012,06:05   

Meanwhile, at the ranch: Natural Selection - What is it and what does it do?, a copypasta from Joe's blog.
He must have got back his posting privilege after whining  
Quote
21 posts in moderation- how many can it hold?

I beseech you, let my posts go!


Not so long ago, he sounded a little bit different:  
Quote
Hi Lizzie-

You can take your moderation and shove it up your ass.

I noticed that some of you gals and guys are already discussing with him, so the NCSE is looking forward to another 30 bucks.

Edit: Much more correcterer preposition.

Edited by Kattarina98 on April 24 2012,06:06

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2012,08:01   

It's got nothing to do with his whining, it's just got to do with when I've got time to go through the backlog and sort them into guanoables, sandboxables and stayputables.

He posts a lot, so they mount up.

Also dealing with them in batches stops them dominating the New Comments list, and, to some extent, from disrupting conversation.

As for posting privileges, he has them, but his posts are also subject to moderation.  However, in his own threads he is free to post without moderation (just the way the software works).

If people don't want to respond to him, I suggest they ignore his posts and comments :)

There is plenty other interesting stuff.

Joe G: if you are reading this, please note that I have no intention of censoring your contributions (i.e. not promoting them at all), but my problem is that they are often a) rude b) copious and c) irrelevant to the thread.  If you can be respectful and relevant, I don't mind if you are prolific, but right now the SNR from you is too high and the N too loud for the health of the site.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2012,08:54   

He's already tripped over himself again.
I'm a fan of him erecting undeletable monuments to his own stupidity.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2012,09:07   

Quote (Febble @ April 24 2012,08:01)
It's got nothing to do with his whining, it's just got to do with when I've got time to go through the backlog and sort them into guanoables, sandboxables and stayputables.

He posts a lot, so they mount up.

Also dealing with them in batches stops them dominating the New Comments list, and, to some extent, from disrupting conversation.

As for posting privileges, he has them, but his posts are also subject to moderation.  However, in his own threads he is free to post without moderation (just the way the software works).

If people don't want to respond to him, I suggest they ignore his posts and comments :)

There is plenty other interesting stuff.

Joe G: if you are reading this, please note that I have no intention of censoring your contributions (i.e. not promoting them at all), but my problem is that they are often a) rude b) copious and c) irrelevant to the thread.  If you can be respectful and relevant, I don't mind if you are prolific, but right now the SNR from you is too high and the N too loud for the health of the site.

Hi Lizzy, I was talking about posting privileges = writing OPs as opposed to commenting. I never assumed that you did no longer allow him to comment.
And just to be clear, I love the way you manage your blog. :-)

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2012,09:43   

Thanks :)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10131
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2012,10:23   

Quote (Febble @ April 24 2012,09:43)
Thanks :)

Me too.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2012,14:15   

Joe is just about all that's left of ID. No one else will stay and fight.

I was a bit surprised to see WJM melt down into a puddle of Joe.

W is to philosophy what Uri Geller is to physics.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
paragwinn



Posts: 387
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2012,02:55   

WJM and JoeG respond to the "rabbit fossils found in pre-Cambrian strata" falsifiability test for evolution.

WJM:
Quote
it might force a reorganization of the timeline of common descent
Joe:
Quote
All it would do is cast doubt on our current time-line.

They can't even evaluate the implications correctly. Go figure.

eta: inconsequential formatting and consequential strata labelling

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
The geological maps that realist use to make money are all surface maps. -forastero

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 514
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2012,04:10   

Quote
it might force a reorganization of the timeline of common descent


I'll say! single-celled eukaryotes -> rabbits -> plants, animals, fungi ... and all those fucking trees will have to go - fossils trump molecules.

Edited by Soapy Sam on April 25 2012,04:11

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2012,15:57   

Sal is back with the Bacardi 151 of TARD.

Quote
I will donate $50 to the New Mexicans skeptic organization that you are a member of if you can write a GA which will converge on the complex specified informaiton string (a password if you will) that I have wrtitten explicitly on a sheet of paper. You have 2 months to solve it and publish your results.


http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....t-11721

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
REC



Posts: 571
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2012,16:38   

Quote (midwifetoad @ April 25 2012,15:57)
Sal is back with the Bacardi 151 of TARD.

Quote
I will donate $50 to the New Mexicans skeptic organization that you are a member of if you can write a GA which will converge on the complex specified informaiton string (a password if you will) that I have wrtitten explicitly on a sheet of paper. You have 2 months to solve it and publish your results.


http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....t....t-11721

Evolution=Programmable ESP?

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2124
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2012,21:14   

Quote (REC @ April 25 2012,14:38)
Quote (midwifetoad @ April 25 2012,15:57)
Sal is back with the Bacardi 151 of TARD.

 
Quote
I will donate $50 to the New Mexicans skeptic organization that you are a member of if you can write a GA which will converge on the complex specified informaiton string (a password if you will) that I have wrtitten explicitly on a sheet of paper. You have 2 months to solve it and publish your results.


http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....t....t-11721

Evolution=Programmable ESP?

"You can't read my mind. Therefore Jesus."

Sad, really.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2012,02:49   

Over at Joe's thread they are still trying to explain to WJM that the use of "natural" and "artificial" selection was just Darwin's shorthand for "made by a breeder" versus "not man-made" selection - even Joe seems to have grasped that basically it's the same thing.

I'm wondering if the boundary between "artifical" and "natural" isn't actually quite blurry: For instance, global warming is man-made; so in a changing climate we might find some species die off, others thrive, others develop new features. Would you call this process "natural" or "artificial"?

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2012,06:19   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ April 26 2012,03:49)
Over at Joe's thread they are still trying to explain to WJM that the use of "natural" and "artificial" selection was just Darwin's shorthand for "made by a breeder" versus "not man-made" selection - even Joe seems to have grasped that basically it's the same thing.

I'm wondering if the boundary between "artifical" and "natural" isn't actually quite blurry: For instance, global warming is man-made; so in a changing climate we might find some species die off, others thrive, others develop new features. Would you call this process "natural" or "artificial"?

We wrangled with this question last week in my senior seminar on hybridization. It's kind of sticky, but bears on things like conservation policy.

Near as I can tell, in a Venn diagram of artificial and natural, the former lies in some sense entirely within the latter. The distinction itself is completely artificial (ha! see what I did there?), and arbitrary. It's context-dependent. To me it seems that the boundary lies wherever you choose to place it in a given discussion, but where you place it should be very clear to everyone involved in that particular discussion to facilitate clear communication.

My tuppence, worth exactly what you just paid for it.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
George



Posts: 312
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2012,07:14   

Quote (Lou FCD @ April 26 2012,06:19)
Quote (Kattarina98 @ April 26 2012,03:49)
Over at Joe's thread they are still trying to explain to WJM that the use of "natural" and "artificial" selection was just Darwin's shorthand for "made by a breeder" versus "not man-made" selection - even Joe seems to have grasped that basically it's the same thing.

I'm wondering if the boundary between "artifical" and "natural" isn't actually quite blurry: For instance, global warming is man-made; so in a changing climate we might find some species die off, others thrive, others develop new features. Would you call this process "natural" or "artificial"?

We wrangled with this question last week in my senior seminar on hybridization. It's kind of sticky, but bears on things like conservation policy.

Near as I can tell, in a Venn diagram of artificial and natural, the former lies in some sense entirely within the latter. The distinction itself is completely artificial (ha! see what I did there?), and arbitrary. It's context-dependent. To me it seems that the boundary lies wherever you choose to place it in a given discussion, but where you place it should be very clear to everyone involved in that particular discussion to facilitate clear communication.

My tuppence, worth exactly what you just paid for it.

Absolutely it's blurry and context dependent.  Arguably even more so in Europe and other places with a long history of intensive human meddling in nature than in North America. These are the sorts of issues I thrash about with in my work.  Those lovely species-rich grasslands that aren't plowed, herbicided or fertilised, they're natural aren't they?  But wait, wouldn't they be forests if you got rid of the cattle?  Or would the deer keep the grasslands open?  And what about the now-extinct wolves?

These sorts of arguments are why we use the term "semi-natural" a lot!

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2012,07:30   

first nature is a myth

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
George



Posts: 312
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2012,07:54   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ April 26 2012,07:30)
first nature is a myth

The birds will be so disappointed.

  
SLP



Posts: 136
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2012,08:46   

So whatever happened to Upright Douchebag and his* 'semiotic' argument?  I note that after his unnecessarily lengthy bafflegab posts riddled with analogies and nonsense, he sort of split.



*Which is to say Abel the resume-padder's...

  
Quack



Posts: 1758
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2012,09:05   

Quote (fnxtr @ April 25 2012,21:14)
     
Quote (REC @ April 25 2012,14:38)
     
Quote (midwifetoad @ April 25 2012,15:57)
Sal is back with the Bacardi 151 of TARD.

       
Quote
I will donate $50 to the New Mexicans skeptic organization that you are a member of if you can write a GA which will converge on the complex specified informaiton string (a password if you will) that I have wrtitten explicitly on a sheet of paper. You have 2 months to solve it and publish your results.


http://theskepticalzone.com/wp....t....t-11721

Evolution=Programmable ESP?

"You can't read my mind. Therefore Jesus."

Sad, really.