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  Topic: The DI's latest martyr:  Guillermo Gonzalez< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2777
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2007,11:45   

Quote (JAM @ July 17 2007,11:34)
   
Quote (Robert O'Brien @ May 13 2007,14:47)
Refusing to grant tenure to Guillermo Gonzalez is clearly ideologically/politically motivated. He has at least 55 publications in his field according to ISI Web of Knowledge, which is more than his most vociferous critics have accomplished.

But how many of those were from his time at Iowa State? A lot of pubs before the first independent position and very few after taking that position is damning.

And how much did he bring in in grants? More to the point, how much indirect?

Well, now you're talking over the heads of the whiners, discussing indirect costs. Maybe we should ask Dr. Dr. D. how much IDC he gets with his funding from the DI, just to see if he understands the concept.

Oops, I forgot. We can't do that. We're with the banned.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2007,12:40   

Caught this at Science Blogs via The Onion, and thought it was appropriate, and perhaps could shed some light on childhood events that might have led up to Gonzalez's failure to achieve tenure:

http://scienceblogs.com/worldsf....esn.php

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
JAM



Posts: 503
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2007,00:26   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 17 2007,11:45)
Quote (JAM @ July 17 2007,11:34)
And how much did he bring in in grants? More to the point, how much indirect?

Well, now you're talking over the heads of the whiners, discussing indirect costs. Maybe we should ask Dr. Dr. D. how much IDC he gets with his funding from the DI, just to see if he understands the concept.

Well, to give you an idea of the pervasiveness of administrators' concern with indirect costs, at my last institution, applying for a grant with <15% IDC required the prior approval of the president.

I suspect that the DI pays 0% overhead.

Maybe that's a way that Lehigh can get Behe to leave...

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2007,01:00   

Quote
And how much did he bring in in grants? More to the point, how much indirect?

Someone posted the numbers, and IIRC it wasn't enough to keep a single PhD student going.

Bob

--------------
ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10064
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2007,01:07   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 18 2007,01:00)
Quote
And how much did he bring in in grants? More to the point, how much indirect?

Someone posted the numbers, and IIRC it wasn't enough to keep a single PhD student going.

Bob

What about a married one?


Badum Tsssch.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2777
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2007,11:04   

Quote (JAM @ July 18 2007,00:26)
 Well, to give you an idea of the pervasiveness of administrators' concern with indirect costs, at my last institution, applying for a grant with <15% IDC required the prior approval of the president.

I suspect that the DI pays 0% overhead.

Maybe that's a way that Lehigh can get Behe to leave...

Frankly, I wish our administrators would pay more attention to those percentages. In recent years they have focused on trying to get earmarks (aka pork) for major projects, and ignored the fact that there is never any IDC funding for these porkers. Sometimes they had to use IDc generated from other projects to supplement the pork when the funding is not quite up to what they requested. In addition, when the pork runs out, we will have large buildings or new faculty members to pay for from our own funds.

And it will run out. Last November we elected a new Congressional rep, to replace the old one who never did a thing for his lesser constituents, but who had been instrumental in helping pork up this institution. The day after the election I happened to run into one of the upper admins involved in this project, and he was absolutely despondent. Note that the person who lost the election was a troglodyte, and that this admin had zero in common with the losing candidate politically, philosophically, or otherwise. Note that most sane people agree that pork is a bad idea, both from the political and scientific perspectives, and that this admin would probably have agreed that it was a bad idea before he drank this Kool-Aid. None of that mattered; he was just really worried because the trough had just dried up, and he was seriously bummed out.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,12:03   

The Regents met today and our creationist friend has been DENIED by a vote of 7-1

Linky

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,13:05   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,12:03)
The Regents met today and our creationist friend has been DENIED by a vote of 7-1

Linky

Thank you for the post.  

Can't wait to see the UD and DI posts about it.

This is going to be a lot of fun!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,13:12   

Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 07 2008,13:05)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,12:03)
The Regents met today and our creationist friend has been DENIED by a vote of 7-1

Linky

Thank you for the post.  

Can't wait to see the UD and DI posts about it.

This is going to be a lot of fun!

Ask and thou shalt receive!!1!1!1!!!one!!!1!

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,13:42   

Quote
They’ve denied his due process rights throughout this entire appeal,” Luskin continued.


Apparently Luskin is as confused about law as he is about science.

There are no "due process" provisions in the constitution regarding a tenure dispute at a university.  The meeting of regents is not a court of law.

I used to think Luskin was a clever propagandist, lately I'm convinced he's just dumb.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5374
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,14:11   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,14:42)
Quote
They’ve denied his due process rights throughout this entire appeal,” Luskin continued.


Apparently Luskin is as confused about law as he is about science.

There are no "due process" provisions in the constitution regarding a tenure dispute at a university.  The meeting of regents is not a court of law.

I used to think Luskin was a clever propagandist, lately I'm convinced he's just dumb.

Lou's Law:

Never attribute to ignorance that which can in any way be explained by the rank dishonesty of the Discovery Institute or its fellows.

Hope that helps.

ETA:  Exception to Lou's Law:

Denyse O'Leary.

Edited by Lou FCD on Feb. 07 2008,15:19

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
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Chayanov



Posts: 289
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,14:48   

How nice of Luskin to decide to re-write all the laws of the United States. Did he fall on his head recently? We all knew he was a pathological liar, but lately he just seems stupid.

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Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

  
PTET



Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,15:36   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,13:42)
Quote
They’ve denied his due process rights throughout this entire appeal,” Luskin continued.


Apparently Luskin is as confused about law as he is about science.

There are no "due process" provisions in the constitution regarding a tenure dispute at a university.  The meeting of regents is not a court of law.

I used to think Luskin was a clever propagandist, lately I'm convinced he's just dumb.

I have a friend who has some legal training... In a non-USican sense.

"Due Process" could apply in the vernacular to the University's own rules. If the University had not followed its own rules, this could be the basis for a lawsuit on the basis "Due Process" was not followed.

I have no idea whether Luskin has used the correct terminology under Americanian Law, but I imagine that's what he's alluding to.

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"It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time.
Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4230
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,17:19   

The DI headline:
 
Quote
STELLAR ASTRONOMER GUILLERMO GONZALEZ DENIED FAIR HEARING BY IOWA STATE BOARD OF REGENTS
By: Discovery Staff
Discovery Institute
February 7, 2008...

Is "stellar" really the superlative you want to couple with "astronomer?"

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4465
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,17:35   

I dunno... is Gonzalez Sol-ly interested in our primary?

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 554
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,17:38   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Feb. 07 2008,18:19)
The DI headline:
   
Quote
STELLAR ASTRONOMER GUILLERMO GONZALEZ DENIED FAIR HEARING BY IOWA STATE BOARD OF REGENTS
By: Discovery Staff
Discovery Institute
February 7, 2008...

Is "stellar" really the superlative you want to couple with "astronomer?"

"fair hearing" = "got what he wanted"

"unfair hearing" = "didn't get what he wanted"

--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Chayanov



Posts: 289
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,17:43   

Stellar astronomer? I thought he was a privileged planet astronomer.

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Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

  
Henry J



Posts: 3998
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,22:17   

A stellar astronomer would be one who prefers studying stars over studying planets or gas clouds. :p

Henry

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2008,10:16   

Luskin and GG sittin in a tree

w-h-i-n-i-n-g

It's a radio interview!  GG says he's so mad he hopes he doesn't "sin"  (like let a curse word slip?)

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2008,11:01   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 13 2008,10:16)
Luskin and GG sittin in a tree

w-h-i-n-i-n-g

It's a radio interview!  GG says he's so mad he hopes he doesn't "sin"  (like let a curse word slip?)

Beautiful!  This has GOT to reinforce the tenure committee's decision.

Few things worse than sitting in a meeting with a sanctimonious little prig.  Bullet Dodged.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10064
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2008,11:56   

Quote (Henry J @ Feb. 07 2008,22:17)
A stellar astronomer would be one who prefers studying stars over studying planets or gas clouds. :p

Henry

He should write: "ID: a black hole for knowledge"

edited!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,09:22   

From Ed Brayton's Blog - The latest on GG - The World's Biggest Martyar.

WARNING!!! - DISCONNECT ALL IRONY MACHINES BEFORE VIEWING.

"Why is this ironic? Take a look at the Wikipedia entry for Grove City College:

   Since 1963, the American Association of University Professors, an organization that represents the interests of college professors, has placed Grove City under censure for violations of tenure and academic freedom. In fact, Grove City has the distinction of having been on the AAUP's list of censured administrations longer than any other college that is currently censured. In its report, the AAUP Investigative Committee at Grove City concluded that "the absence of due process [in the dismissal of professors at Grove City] raises...doubts regarding the academic security of any persons who may hold appointment at Grove City College under existing administrative practice. These doubts are of an order of magnitude which obliges us to report them to the academic profession at large."

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....job.php

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2777
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,09:39   

Quote (J-Dog @ July 10 2008,09:22)
From Ed Brayton's Blog - The latest on GG - The World's Biggest Martyar.

WARNING!!! - DISCONNECT ALL IRONY MACHINES BEFORE VIEWING.

"Why is this ironic? Take a look at the Wikipedia entry for Grove City College:

   Since 1963, the American Association of University Professors, an organization that represents the interests of college professors, has placed Grove City under censure for violations of tenure and academic freedom. In fact, Grove City has the distinction of having been on the AAUP's list of censured administrations longer than any other college that is currently censured. In its report, the AAUP Investigative Committee at Grove City concluded that "the absence of due process [in the dismissal of professors at Grove City] raises...doubts regarding the academic security of any persons who may hold appointment at Grove City College under existing administrative practice. These doubts are of an order of magnitude which obliges us to report them to the academic profession at large."

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....job.php

Well, that AAUP censure is really old news; it is based on an incident that happened in 1963. The AAUP updates its list of censured administrations every year (published in their journal Academe and also on their web site). They contact the censured institutions annually and ask them if they would like to re-visit the incident. Not surprisingly for an incident this old, the administration (most of whom were in elementary school when it happened) doesn't really want to be bothered.

If the AAUP censure had any teeth, it might be a different story. But it doesn't, so censure actions that ancient just elicit shrugs from college administrators today. And yes, for the record, I am a member of AAUP.

Sadly, Baylor's shabby treatment of Dr. Dr. D., or ISU's treatment of GG, failed to trigger the AAUP radar. I wonder why...

Interestingly the list of censured administrations (link above) does seem to have a large number of colleges with "faith-based" missions. Perhaps PZ can pick up on that angle :-)

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,10:26   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 10 2008,09:39)
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....job.php[/quote]
Well, that AAUP censure is really old news; it is based on an incident that happened in 1963. The AAUP updates its list of censured administrations every year (published in their journal Academe and also on their web site). They contact the censured institutions annually and ask them if they would like to re-visit the incident. Not surprisingly for an incident this old, the administration (most of whom were in elementary school when it happened) doesn't really want to be bothered.

If the AAUP censure had any teeth, it might be a different story. But it doesn't, so censure actions that ancient just elicit shrugs from college administrators today. And yes, for the record, I am a member of AAUP.

Sadly, Baylor's shabby treatment of Dr. Dr. D., or ISU's treatment of GG, failed to trigger the AAUP radar. I wonder why...

Interestingly the list of censured administrations (link above) does seem to have a large number of colleges with "faith-based" missions. Perhaps PZ can pick up on that angle :-)

Dave - Thanks for the perspective and update - I knew there was a reason to keep you around! :)

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,19:47   

There is also the fact that Iowa State exists on the public dole and Grove City does not. Although, that does not keep some academicians from trying to establish their own fiefdoms at public institutions wherein they entertain the delusion that they are not accountable to the taxpayers.

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,19:57   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ July 10 2008,17:47)
There is also the fact that Iowa State exists on the public dole and Grove City does not. Although, that does not keep some academicians from trying to establish their own fiefdoms at public institutions wherein they entertain the delusion that they are not accountable to the taxpayers.

So you're saying that Gonzalez should have been tenured because Iowa State receives government funds?

Is that your final answer, Robert?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,20:51   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 10 2008,19:57)
Quote (Robert O'Brien @ July 10 2008,17:47)
There is also the fact that Iowa State exists on the public dole and Grove City does not. Although, that does not keep some academicians from trying to establish their own fiefdoms at public institutions wherein they entertain the delusion that they are not accountable to the taxpayers.

So you're saying that Gonzalez should have been tenured because Iowa State receives government funds?

Is that your final answer, Robert?

No, but they are obliged to justify their decision.

--------------
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10064
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,20:53   

Alright ROB. I'm dead nice to fundies now, me. Ask Dave.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,20:53   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ July 10 2008,18:51)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 10 2008,19:57)
Quote (Robert O'Brien @ July 10 2008,17:47)
There is also the fact that Iowa State exists on the public dole and Grove City does not. Although, that does not keep some academicians from trying to establish their own fiefdoms at public institutions wherein they entertain the delusion that they are not accountable to the taxpayers.

So you're saying that Gonzalez should have been tenured because Iowa State receives government funds?

Is that your final answer, Robert?

No, but they are obliged to justify their decision.

Um, Robert, you can do better than this. You're just mailing it in today.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,21:01   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 10 2008,18:53)
Alright ROB. I'm dead nice to fundies now, me. Ask Dave.



--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
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