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Bob O'H



Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2011,02:41   

Quote (noncarborundum @ April 06 2011,01:25)
Quote (Leftfield @ April 05 2011,17:33)
Neal Tedford on scientific procedures:

     
Quote
As a comparison Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel are usually careful to perform their tests by setting up their experiments as equal to the original claim as possible. They then test their experiment quite thoroughly. Evolutionary theory would not stand up to this kind of scrutiny.


Waterloo!!!!!

I think this would make an excellent Mythbusters episode.  First, the build team constructs a duplicate prehistoric earth (probably they'd do a scale model first, just for proof of concept, before scaling up to a full-size replica).  Then, after a perhaps a billion years, rendered in dramatic time-lapse photography, we get to see whether the development of life is confirmed, plausible, or totally busted.  After which Jamie and Adam find some pretext for blowing the whole thing to smitheens, which is always the best part.

Perhaps they'll have to demolish it to make way for a new hyperspace bypass.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2011,03:39   

Quote (Leftfield @ April 06 2011,08:33)
Neal Tedford on scientific procedures:

 
Quote
As a comparison Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel are usually careful to perform their tests by setting up their experiments as equal to the original claim as possible. They then test their experiment quite thoroughly. Evolutionary theory would not stand up to this kind of scrutiny.


Waterloo!!!!!

Interesting given that one of the Mythbusters is a skeptic who has on occasion said that ID/Creationism is a load of crap.

  
didymos



Posts: 1776
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2011,10:37   

Quote (MichaelJ @ April 06 2011,01:39)
Interesting given that one of the Mythbusters is a skeptic who has on occasion said that ID/Creationism is a load of crap.

I think it's clear they're all skeptics (though they're not all atheists as well), it's just that Adam Savage, as per his personality, actually attends skeptic events and likes to talk about it.  It's funny, because he did say this at one of those events back in 2007:

Quote
My goal this year is to prove natural selection on the show. It's gonna take a while, it's gonna be very hard to make it fascinating on film in the context of our narrative structure, but I figure screw it. The sky's the limit. Let's do natural selection. I'm sick of fifty percent of this country thinking creationism is reasonable. It's appalling. And I have the unique ability, maybe, to sell this idea to Discovery, and they'll, they might allow me to do it, and I'm gonna try as hard as I can.


A year later he said it wasn't looking likely to ever happen. Which I find kind of strange, since Discovery has no problem talking about evolution in who-knows-how-many hours of their other programming.  I guess the show's style made them nervous about such topics though.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 986
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2011,17:48   

Quote (didymos @ April 06 2011,10:37)
Quote (MichaelJ @ April 06 2011,01:39)
Interesting given that one of the Mythbusters is a skeptic who has on occasion said that ID/Creationism is a load of crap.

I think it's clear they're all skeptics (though they're not all atheists as well), it's just that Adam Savage, as per his personality, actually attends skeptic events and likes to talk about it.  It's funny, because he did say this at one of those events back in 2007:

 
Quote
My goal this year is to prove natural selection on the show. It's gonna take a while, it's gonna be very hard to make it fascinating on film in the context of our narrative structure, but I figure screw it. The sky's the limit. Let's do natural selection. I'm sick of fifty percent of this country thinking creationism is reasonable. It's appalling. And I have the unique ability, maybe, to sell this idea to Discovery, and they'll, they might allow me to do it, and I'm gonna try as hard as I can.


A year later he said it wasn't looking likely to ever happen. Which I find kind of strange, since Discovery has no problem talking about evolution in who-knows-how-many hours of their other programming.  I guess the show's style made them nervous about such topics though.

Kari Byron is on record as an atheist as well

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2011,21:41   

Quote (Texas Teach @ April 06 2011,17:48)
Quote (didymos @ April 06 2011,10:37)
 
Quote (MichaelJ @ April 06 2011,01:39)
Interesting given that one of the Mythbusters is a skeptic who has on occasion said that ID/Creationism is a load of crap.

I think it's clear they're all skeptics (though they're not all atheists as well), it's just that Adam Savage, as per his personality, actually attends skeptic events and likes to talk about it.  It's funny, because he did say this at one of those events back in 2007:

   
Quote
My goal this year is to prove natural selection on the show. It's gonna take a while, it's gonna be very hard to make it fascinating on film in the context of our narrative structure, but I figure screw it. The sky's the limit. Let's do natural selection. I'm sick of fifty percent of this country thinking creationism is reasonable. It's appalling. And I have the unique ability, maybe, to sell this idea to Discovery, and they'll, they might allow me to do it, and I'm gonna try as hard as I can.


A year later he said it wasn't looking likely to ever happen. Which I find kind of strange, since Discovery has no problem talking about evolution in who-knows-how-many hours of their other programming.  I guess the show's style made them nervous about such topics though.

Kari Byron is on record as an atheist as well

Just another reason why I want someday to become young and attractive enough to marry her.

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"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2011,07:57   

Somebody needs to get in touch with Corny and tell him it is time to update his Wolf / Thalycine anatomy research coloring book.

Science Daily Thalycine News

added in edit:  I see that I was scooped on this by Albatrossity.  Congratulations, you beat me to it - this time Birdman... but maybe I'll surprise you the next time we post something that makes fun of Corny's positions.  :)

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2011,17:44   

After more than month away (and not getting Raptured), Cornelius Hunter is back.

Sorry, he's still a dick.

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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2011,20:33   

Quote (dvunkannon @ May 24 2011,17:44)
After more than month away (and not getting Raptured), Cornelius Hunter is back.

Sorry, he's still a dick.

So, we should all refer to him as "Dick Hunter"? Or would it be more correct to call him "Dr. Dick Hunter"?

If only my Hugh Jass puppet was still alive - he could ask him which he preferred.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1234
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2011,13:53   

Cornelius Hunter:

Quote
First, Wells is not a creationist.


http://www.creationstudies.org/operationsalt/jonathan-wells

under About CSI:

Quote
It's no secret that the lie of evolution has become a stumbling block for many on their path to salvation. CSI is called to remove this stumbling block by teaching the truth that God is our Creator, that we are made in His image, and that by Him and through Him, all things were made.


All Science So Far!

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1463
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2011,23:14   

Hey guys, did you know that over at UD (and his place) Corny Hunter has definitely, no kidding, cross-my-fingers-hope-to-die-stick-a-needle-in-my-eye, falsified evolution?

 
Quote
Corny Hunter:  

So to summarize, in addition to proteins violating evolution’s expected pattern in important ways, proteins cannot be evolved via gradualistic mechanisms. Do you remember your biology teacher’s lecture on gradualism and how crucial it was to evolutionary theory? Well forget it. It is out. Gradualism doesn’t evolve proteins.

But that is precisely what Darwin set forth as a crucial test of evolution. Remember, “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.”

Well forget it. Gradualism is out, and with it Darwin’s falsification criterion has been met. Evolution has been falsified.  linky



Of course it's the same old bullshit - argument from 'it's toooooo improbable!!" pulled out of his ass numbers, but what the hey.

Let's go over there (those who aren't banninated like me) and encourage him to submit this work to a bona fide scientific journal.  After all, it's not fair of him to keep such a monumental epic discovery from the scientific community.

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JoeG: And by eating the cake you are consuming the information- some stays with you and the rest is waste.

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1234
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2011,15:29   

OH, NOES, evolution even less likely!

Quote
Modeling these force fields and how molecules respond to them is a major problem in molecular dynamics studies. Both the modeling of the force fields, and the molecular dynamics is challenging and computationally intensive. For instance, each particle influences each of the other particles. And as a particle moves, all of its influences change. But other particles are moving as well, so the dynamics quickly become extremely complicated.


Another dolt who doesn't understand the difference between modeling and reality.  A force field is a set of parameters for empircal potential energy functions.  This is inherently inaccurate.  The only reason molecular dynamics is complicated is the number of interactions.  The real explanation (quantum mechanics, again a model - electrons do not compute the orbitals they should be in) is terribly complicated.  And yes, there is even quantum dynamics.

Quote
The previous model, which had evolution designing the chromophore and its photoisomerization, was complicated enough. Now evolution must also design force fields and their dynamics caused by electron flow within the chromophore. The design space just took another quantum leap.


The IDiot does not realize that the previous theory implicity has "electron flow within the chromophore".  This is merely time evolution of the excited electronic state.  What is new is that apparently isomerization is not a necessary part of the process - does the IDiot ask if such process was designed, then why is isomerization there?  No.

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1234
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2011,11:14   

Corny barking at the carnival known as UD:

Quote
7 July 2011
Response to Comments: The Problem With Miracles
Cornelius Hunter

Imagine if a police detective was told his theory had to be strictly natural. The evidence at the crime scene was obvious, but the boss wants no criminals indicted. The cause of the crime must be limited to the wind, rain, earthquakes, polar shifts, whatever. Absurd you say?


Yeah, bullets are miraculous!  Analogy fail.

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2011,11:23   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ July 08 2011,11:14)
Corny barking at the carnival known as UD:

Quote
7 July 2011
Response to Comments: The Problem With Miracles
Cornelius Hunter

Imagine if a police detective was told his theory had to be strictly natural. The evidence at the crime scene was obvious, but the boss wants no criminals indicted. The cause of the crime must be limited to the wind, rain, earthquakes, polar shifts, whatever. Absurd you say?


Yeah, bullets are miraculous!  Analogy fail.

Either that or he's saying that people are not natural...which fits with his theology, of course.  About the only thing unnatural there is his stupidity.  Sure stupid that deep has to be miraculous.

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"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3545
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2011,13:21   

Sometimes it's difficult to decide whether Corny or Mung is the stupidest poster at UD.

Has anyone ever seen them together?

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”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2011,07:21   

Hunter declares a recent Nature paper by Povolotskaya and Kondrashov "meaningless." He is so incensed that he writes two posts about it. Not surprisingly, he completely misunderstands what the authors did.

Join me for a round of a piñata here and learn some amazing science in the process.

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If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2593
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2011,09:56   

Quote (olegt @ July 18 2011,07:21)
Join me for a round of a piñata here and learn some amazing science in the process.

Thanks for the reminder. Was intrigued by your first comment about "the distance squared is proportional to the number of steps taken," but had lost track of the conversation. Good stuff, though you actually had it covered with your first comment.

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There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2011,10:12   

Zachriel,

I should say that the authors did not make it easy to follow their paper by stressing the analogy with the expansion of the universe. That is a deterministic process: every galaxy recedes from every other galaxy (on sufficiently long length scales).

In contrast, here we are dealing with a stochastic process: proteins move toward and away from each other. One has to do averaging in order to see a trend. The concept of equilibrium, crucial to the understanding of this work, is not stressed frequently enough. It took me a while to realize its importance. Those Hubble diagrams surely did not help.

I suppose experts had an easier time, but I am glad I took time to understand this work. It is very nice.

--------------
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midwifetoad



Posts: 3545
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2011,12:39   

Seems to me Gould wrote a book about this. Full House.

I'm not qualified to review it, but I have carried the image of the random walk ever since.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
socle



Posts: 252
Joined: July 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,00:50   

Quote (olegt @ July 18 2011,07:21)
Hunter declares a recent Nature paper by Povolotskaya and Kondrashov "meaningless." He is so incensed that he writes two posts about it. Not surprisingly, he completely misunderstands what the authors did.

Join me for a round of a piñata here and learn some amazing science in the process.

Brilliant, oleg, those tables in Tuesday's post are very helpful.  I wonder if CH will acknowledge them?

  
olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,08:20   

Hunter ratchets it up to a trilogy!

Part I, Peak Fallacy: Proteins Evolved Because They Evolved.
Part II, Peak Fallacy: A Follow-Up on Nature Paper Proving A = A.
Part III, Peak Fallacy: Evolutionists Citing Other Evolutionists or, How to Drink Your Own Bathwater.

The discussion of equilibrium, or lack thereof, began in Part II and has now moved to Part III.

To be continued!

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olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,11:42   

Cornelius shows up in the comments section. He still doesn't have a clue.

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Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1234
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,11:52   

Quote (olegt @ July 20 2011,11:42)
Cornelius shows up in the comments section. He still doesn't have a clue.

Cornelius will get it when pigs sing.

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 986
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,14:00   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ July 20 2011,11:52)
Quote (olegt @ July 20 2011,11:42)
Cornelius shows up in the comments section. He still doesn't have a clue.

Cornelius will get it when pigs sing.

Only if you can provide a complete mutation by mutation description of the morphological changes between non-singing pigs and singing pigs.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2081
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,15:42   

Quote (Texas Teach @ July 20 2011,12:00)
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ July 20 2011,11:52)
 
Quote (olegt @ July 20 2011,11:42)
Cornelius shows up in the comments section. He still doesn't have a clue.

Cornelius will get it when pigs sing.

Only if you can provide a complete mutation by mutation description of the morphological changes between non-singing pigs and singing pigs.



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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Seversky



Posts: 412
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,17:36   

Quote (fnxtr @ July 20 2011,15:42)
Quote (Texas Teach @ July 20 2011,12:00)
 
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ July 20 2011,11:52)
   
Quote (olegt @ July 20 2011,11:42)
Cornelius shows up in the comments section. He still doesn't have a clue.

Cornelius will get it when pigs sing.

Only if you can provide a complete mutation by mutation description of the morphological changes between non-singing pigs and singing pigs.


The pig reference is apt.  Olegt's comments there are like pearls before swine.

  
olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2011,07:25   

Cornelius has finally seen the light. Or so it seems.

Yesterday he presented a calculation that, unbeknownst to him, actually follows the principle of detailed balance. I suppose that is progress.

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Zachriel



Posts: 2593
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2011,09:32   

Quote (olegt @ July 21 2011,07:25)
Cornelius has finally seen the light. Or so it seems.

Yesterday he presented a calculation that, unbeknownst to him, actually follows the principle of detailed balance. I suppose that is progress.

If you can't explain the one-dimensional case, then you will probably have troubles with 11-dimensional chess.

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There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2081
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2011,10:51   

Quote (Zachriel @ July 21 2011,07:32)
Quote (olegt @ July 21 2011,07:25)
Cornelius has finally seen the light. Or so it seems.

Yesterday he presented a calculation that, unbeknownst to him, actually follows the principle of detailed balance. I suppose that is progress.

If you can't explain the one-dimensional case, then you will probably have troubles with 11-dimensional chess.

P->g-4-upsilon-eyeofhorus-chacmool-saji-alif-lalla-thunderbird-smiley-#.

Your move.

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2011,11:13   

Nah, he still doesn't get it.

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Zachriel



Posts: 2593
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,07:31   

Cornelius Hunter shows how to do a linear regression.


darwins-god.blogspot.com/2012/01/is-evolution-enabler-of-all-kinds-of.html


Some choice comments:

Quote
Venture Free: Wh...what?

Perhaps a bit technical. Here's a simpler explanation.

Quote
troy: Nice try, Cornelius.

I've done a linear regression on the data.

First of all, the best fitting straight line has a slope of 0.77 rather than the roughly 5 of your arrow. Misleading by a factor of 6.

Second, the slope is not significantly different from 0 (p=0.16). There is no evidence for a relationship between the two quantities.


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There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
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