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  Topic: The DI's latest martyr:  Guillermo Gonzalez< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
stevestory



Posts: 8882
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,13:07   

Quote (J-Dog @ May 18 2007,11:46)
Unless you're William Dembski...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dembski#Recent_developments

That 'recent developments' section begins thusly:

Quote
Recent developments

In December 2001, Dembski launched the International Society for Complexity, Information and Design (ISCID), of which he is Executive Director. Dembski is also the editor-in-chief of ISCID's journal, Progress in Complexity, Information, and Design (PCID).


Given that PCID, the premiere ID journal, hasn't published an issue in over a year and a half, maybe they should rename it No Progress in Complexity, Information, and Design.

If you wanted to be sober and do a little digging, you could probably find a couple of amusing things:

1 Past statements decrying the very concept of tenure, by IDers who now wail and gnash their teeth that Gonzales isn't receiving it.
2 Search through The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, From Fraud to Foolishness, and like books, and find a dozen basic ways in which ID fails as a scientific revolution and instead resembles various other scams such as free energy and dianetics. Just offhand I can think of a) no operational definitions for CSI b) confirmation bias, c) no progress solving outstanding problems d) deliberately confusing jargon e) allegations of conspiracy f) misuse of legitimate science such as the SLOT....

Somebody else can continue. It's been a long week. I'm going to watch the NBA playoffs and get smashed.

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4361
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,14:07   

Quote (stevestory @ May 18 2007,13:07)
Somebody else can continue. It's been a long week. I'm going to watch the NBA playoffs and get smashed.

Steve - More fuel for the DI Conspiracy hopper...

The NBA also has a clear bias against Gonzalez, as he is denied the opportunity to sit courtside and root for the Iowa NBA team...

When will the hating ever stop?

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,14:20   

Quote
And you wonder why the public doesn’t buy this story. The public evidently has enough horse sense to know a pile of manure when they smell one. The Darwinian narrative is already lost. The only thing propping it up is the establishment clause and that’s being remedied as we speak. You see that just takes a little longer because we have for SCOTUS justices to retire or die before we can replace them. The easy part was taking over congress, the executive branch, school boards, etc. If it wasn’t for tenure there’d be even more reorganization going on.

You can’t fight city hall.

Write that down.

DS
Thats cheesy poof meister no.1. What planet is Davescot talking about again, where all these things happened? I don't remeber any of that, LOL.

And Dembski? bitter:
     
Quote
Unlike Forrest and Miller, who have nice cushy jobs with tenure, at the time I came on as an expert witness for Thomas More, I was in the process of losing my job with Baylor.

Aww.
Better keep those $100,000 paydays coming.
Oh, and there's the classic      
Quote
If I ever became the president of a university (per impossibile), I would dissolve the biology department and divide the faculty with tenure that I couldn’t get rid of into two new departments: those who know engineering and how it applies to biological systems would be assigned to the new “Department of Biological Engineering”; the rest, and that includes the evolutionists, would be consigned to the new “Department of Nature Appreciation” (didn’t Darwin think of himself as a naturalist?).

of course. All the fuss they are making now, yet it was only on the 10 January 2007 that Dembski said that. I linked to the google cache of that particular page, for reasons that i'm sure by now are obvious.

So, the head"things" of ID despise tenure, much like Dembski despises what Dawkins stands for. hahahahaha


 
Quote
Oldman, you get AtBC Member of the Month.
Marvellous! :D

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,14:36   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 18 2007,14:20)
Quote
And you wonder why the public doesn’t buy this story. The public evidently has enough horse sense to know a pile of manure when they smell one. The Darwinian narrative is already lost. The only thing propping it up is the establishment clause and that’s being remedied as we speak. You see that just takes a little longer because we have for SCOTUS justices to retire or die before we can replace them. The easy part was taking over congress, the executive branch, school boards, etc. If it wasn’t for tenure there’d be even more reorganization going on.

You can’t fight city hall.

Write that down.

DS
Thats cheesy poof meister no.1. What planet is Davescot talking about again, where all these things happened? I don't remeber any of that, LOL.

And Dembski? bitter:
       
Quote
Unlike Forrest and Miller, who have nice cushy jobs with tenure, at the time I came on as an expert witness for Thomas More, I was in the process of losing my job with Baylor.

Aww.
Better keep those $100,000 paydays coming.
Oh, and there's the classic        
Quote
If I ever became the president of a university (per impossibile), I would dissolve the biology department and divide the faculty with tenure that I couldn’t get rid of into two new departments: those who know engineering and how it applies to biological systems would be assigned to the new “Department of Biological Engineering”; the rest, and that includes the evolutionists, would be consigned to the new “Department of Nature Appreciation” (didn’t Darwin think of himself as a naturalist?).

of course. All the fuss they are making now, yet it was only on the 10 January 2007 that Dembski said that. I linked to the google cache of that particular page, for reasons that i'm sure by now are obvious.

So, the head"things" of ID despise tenure, much like Dembski despises what Dawkins stands for. hahahahaha


   
Quote
Oldman, you get AtBC Member of the Month.
Marvellous! :D

and possibly next month as well for this post.

Why not forward it to PZ Myers? He runs with our best stuff. Be sure to link to AtBC

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,14:57   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 18 2007,21:20)
Quote
Oldman, you get AtBC Member of the Month.
Marvellous! :D

It's a swizz! I make my 1000th post, prove god exists and Oldman gets member of the month? I'm writing to my MP.

;-)

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
stevestory



Posts: 8882
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,15:05   

Quote (J-Dog @ May 18 2007,15:07)
Quote (stevestory @ May 18 2007,13:07)
Somebody else can continue. It's been a long week. I'm going to watch the NBA playoffs and get smashed.

Steve - More fuel for the DI Conspiracy hopper...

The NBA also has a clear bias against Gonzalez, as he is denied the opportunity to sit courtside and root for the Iowa NBA team...

When will the hating ever stop?

Obviously, I mean, why'd you even bother to point it out? It's also pretty clear that the suspension of Robert Horry for two games is an unwritten Darwinist threat to Gonzales. H is, of course, the letter that comes after G--just as Horry was suspended after Gonzales was denied tenure. Also, there are two G's in his name--Horry was suspended for two games. And what was the Darwinist excuse for the suspension? That Horry knocked Steve Nash "outside the box". I thought we wanted people going "outside the box"?!?!?!?!?!?!

These Darwinists are beyond belief.

PS--Guillermo Gonzales. Galileo Galilei. Notice anything!?!?!?!?!?!?!oneoneoneone

   
stevestory



Posts: 8882
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,15:11   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 18 2007,15:20)
Quote
The easy part was taking over congress,

He's talking about the Democrats, I presume?

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,18:00   

Quote (Richardthughes @ May 18 2007,14:36)
Why not forward it to PZ Myers? He runs with our best stuff. Be sure to link to AtBC

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/05/the_id_tenure_plan.php

I did, he did. Fantastic.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,18:05   

I TAKE ALL CREDIT.

HOMOS.       :angry:

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,18:11   

Quote
PS--Guillermo Gonzales. Galileo Galilei. Notice anything!?!?!?!?!?!?!oneoneoneone


G spot?

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,18:15   

Quote (Richardthughes @ May 18 2007,18:05)
I TAKE ALL CREDIT.

HOMOS.       :angry:

I bow to your superior kung fu skills Richardthughes!!


--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,18:21   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 18 2007,18:15)
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 18 2007,18:05)
I TAKE ALL CREDIT.

HOMOS.       :angry:

I bow to your superior kung fu skills Richardthughes!!

TWO WRITE. MY SIGNATURE IS NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR ALL MY PLAUDITS.



HOMOS.    :angry:


Ps - Congrats!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,19:14   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ May 17 2007,15:49)
To be fair, the IDC-as-scam link is about the drafts of "Of Pandas and People".

However, the point that Gonzalez may not have explicitly endorsed OPAP doesn't affect the validity of my statement. OPAP is not the only evidence going that IDC is a sham.
Also, some people involved in a Ponzi scheme may sincerely believe that they are engaged in legitimate multi-level marketing business practices; they would still be wrong.

There is nothing wrong with the sort of ID Guillermo Gonzalez writes about. The flagellum may have been unspun but the Anthropic Principle and teleology have not.

--------------
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,19:24   

Iowa State denies tenure to an intelligent design advocate with impeccable credentials

(via Telic Thoughts)

--------------
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,19:25   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ May 18 2007,19:24)
Iowa State denies tenure to an intelligent design advocate with impeccable credentials

(via Telic Thoughts)

"Weekly News | Christian Views"

Thanks, BobTard!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,20:51   

Quote

There is nothing wrong with the sort of ID Guillermo Gonzalez writes about.


but of course you wouldn't prefer to defend that statement, would ya now, bobbo?

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,23:22   

Quote (Ichthyic @ May 18 2007,20:51)
Quote

There is nothing wrong with the sort of ID Guillermo Gonzalez writes about.


but of course you wouldn't prefer to defend that statement, would ya now, bobbo?

I give him a ranking of 5 for speaker points.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,23:33   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ May 18 2007,19:14)
There is nothing wrong with the sort of ID Guillermo Gonzalez writes about. The flagellum may have been unspun but the Anthropic Principle and teleology have not.

In case you haven't noticed, Bobbie, ID is illegal to teach.  

Indeed, ANYTHING that invokes a supernatural creator or designer an an explanatory mechanism, is illegal to teach.

Game over.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2007,21:04   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ May 18 2007,23:33)
In case you haven't noticed, Bobbie, ID is illegal to teach.  

Indeed, ANYTHING that invokes a supernatural creator or designer an an explanatory mechanism, is illegal to teach.

Game over.

Lenny, I realize you are limited to a certain set of cognitions, but I did not write anything about teaching ID.

--------------
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2007,21:20   

BobTard, why not start up a thread about your blog? It'd get more views and comments than your blog does - presumably you want your ramblings looked at?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2007,23:07   

Quote (Richardthughes @ May 19 2007,21:20)
BobTard, why not start up a thread about your blog? It'd get more views and comments than your blog does - presumably you want your ramblings looked at?

That seems a little narcissistic.

--------------
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2007,23:40   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ May 19 2007,23:07)
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 19 2007,21:20)
BobTard, why not start up a thread about your blog? It'd get more views and comments than your blog does - presumably you want your ramblings looked at?

That seems a little narcissistic.

No more than blogging...

You can "teach the controversy", teach us Latin...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2007,00:07   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ May 19 2007,21:04)
Lenny, I realize you are limited to a certain set of cognitions, but I did not write anything about teaching ID.

It's "Rev Dr" Lenny to you, Bobbie.

And of course you don't actually write about ANYTHING.  (shrug)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
stevestory



Posts: 8882
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2007,04:37   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ May 20 2007,00:07)
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 19 2007,21:20)
BobTard, why not start up a thread about your blog? It'd get more views and comments than your blog does - presumably you want your ramblings looked at?

That seems a little narcissistic.


   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4471
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2007,07:32   

Quote

Lenny, I realize you are limited to a certain set of cognitions, but I did not write anything about teaching ID.


Lenny's cognitive processes seem not to ignore relevant information, since the Discovery Institute Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture, the place where Gonzalez is a Senior Fellow, has written plenty about teaching ID.

Privileged Planet Teaching Guide by Gonzalez and Richards:

 
Quote

We are pleased that Dr. Keas has granted us permission to expand on and adapt his guide for a broader audience. It is appropriate for high school through advanced undergraduate students. It can be used as a supplement for an introductory astronomy or general science course, along with The Privileged Planet and accompanying documentary, an introductory astronomy textbook and perhaps a set of readings on the history of science (e.g., selected chapters from The Book of the Cosmos by Dennis Danielson).


(Emphasis added.)

I suppose a demonstrated inability to ignore inconvenient information could be viewed as a cognitive limitation. To others, it may appear as an essential component of intellectual honesty.

Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on May 20 2007,07:33

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4471
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2007,08:07   

Gonzalez signing off on "irreducible complexity" and "specified complexity":

Quote

Regardless of his position as a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute, Guillermo Gonzalez said he never begins his research with the outright outcome of intelligent design. As a Christian, I believe in God, he said. But as a design theorist, I have to be open to not finding evidence of design. Gonzalez rejects accusations that he is force-fitting his faith into his science. I would be a total fraud, he said. Those are some serious charges. But the only conclusion Gonzalez found in his research detailed in The Privileged Planet was that of intelligent design. Intelligent design is defined as the idea that certain features found in the universe and life exhibit signs of being created by an intelligent agent or cause. That assertion centers around the theories of irreducible complexity and specified complexity. Irreducible complexity  introduced in a 1996 book by biochemist Michael Behe claims that evolution and natural selection cannot account for such things as molecular machines that need all parts in place in order to function. Behe argues that evolution could not have created these materials through small changes at a time.The probability of all these pieces coming together at once naturally is extremely small, Gonzalez said. Specified complexity  introduced by intelligent design proponent William Dembski claims that when something is both specified and complex, it is the product of an intelligent cause or agent. Dembski claims that not only do the worlds materials have complexity, but they also conform to an independent specification or pattern. Intelligent design theorists also say that there are only three possibilities for everything found in nature: Natural law, chance or intelligent design. InThe Privileged Planet, Gonzalez argues that the number of factors deemed necessary for complex life to exist is about 20. Multiplying the probabilities of each of these factors happening at the same time in the same place, creates a probability so small that it points in the direction of an intelligent designer and not natural occurrences, Gonzalez said. According to Gonzalezs calculations, the chances for complex life to exist on a privileged planet are smaller than what Dembski said is the bound for chance.


--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2007,09:58   

Quote
In The Privileged Planet, Gonzalez argues that the number of factors deemed necessary for complex life to exist is about 20. Multiplying the probabilities of each of these factors happening at the same time in the same place, creates a probability so small that it points in the direction of an intelligent designer and not natural occurrences, Gonzalez said.
Does anyone know of a link to where someone calculates these probabilities.
Quote
There is nothing wrong with the sort of ID Guillermo Gonzalez writes about. The flagellum may have been unspun but the Anthropic Principle and teleology have not.
I think it's not so much his espousal of intelligent design as his endorsement of the intelligent design movement.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4471
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2007,10:28   

Quote

Does anyone know of a link to where someone calculates these probabilities.


I don't. So far as I know, there's still only four examples that have come with any numbers and some part of William "Do The Calculation"(*) Dembski's GCEA applied.

(*) See near the end of "The Design Inference".

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
stevestory



Posts: 8882
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2007,11:39   

Quote (Chris Hyland @ May 20 2007,10:58)
Quote
In The Privileged Planet, Gonzalez argues that the number of factors deemed necessary for complex life to exist is about 20. Multiplying the probabilities of each of these factors happening at the same time in the same place, creates a probability so small that it points in the direction of an intelligent designer and not natural occurrences, Gonzalez said.
Does anyone know of a link to where someone calculates these probabilities.

I seem to remember David Heddle claiming that Cosmological ID wasn't a probabalistic argument. Gonzales must not have gotten the memo.

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2007,13:33   

Quote (Chris Hyland @ May 20 2007,09:58)
Quote
In The Privileged Planet, Gonzalez argues that the number of factors deemed necessary for complex life to exist is about 20. Multiplying the probabilities of each of these factors happening at the same time in the same place, creates a probability so small that it points in the direction of an intelligent designer and not natural occurrences, Gonzalez said.

Hmm, and if all of those 20 values had been different, what would the probability be of THOSE particular 20 values happening at the same time at the same place . . . . ?

Gee, they'd be THE SAME GODDAMN PROBABILITY.

Indeed, it'd be the VERY SAME PROBABILITY for ***any***  20 values happening at the same time and same place.

Amazing, isn't it.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
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