RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (356) < [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... >   
  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,21:06   

Since Bob O'H named the previous thread after his house pet feline overlord, I figure I can get away with naming the next after Foster, a dearly loved and missed dog.  He was a better person than most people who legitimately are classified as homo sapien, especially a fair number of those retrograde knotheads over at UD.



Too maudlin?

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,21:08   

Shroedinger's Dog:
Quote
Ras + Louis = Catfight!

Enjoy the video.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,21:26   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 01 2011,03:08)
Shroedinger's Dog:
 
Quote
Ras + Louis = Catfight!

Enjoy the video.

Thank you. I shall now make a joke about what you do to horses, as is customary.

Tradition must be preserved.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,23:02   

From UDT III:  
Quote


Patrick:  
Quote
Quote (midwifetoad @ Aug. 31 2011,11:01)
If KF is engaged in politicking and appears in public places, his image is fair game.

Besides, doesn't he approve of outing when it's someone else?

Why yes, he does!

It's the asymmetry that justifies his hypocrisy, you see.

That being said, I do agree with Louis* that compiling dossiers on the UD denizens borders on creepy stalker behavior.  Gentlemen don't read each other's mail, and all that.

* Is that a bannable offense here?

After having been banned at UD upon Kairosfocus request for linking to one of his own web pages that displayed his real name I think is fair to use the later. Especially, since he used at least one other name (dictionary). In addition, he still signs his comments as GEM.

ETA: BTW, his old The Kairos Focus pages he links to from his new blog under the title The Fullness Focus reference site still displays the following
Quote
This web page was created by Gordon Mullings; all rights reserved
. Thus, using his real name canot be classified as outing, IMO.

Although I think KF is either hysterical or just playing the upset I think his relatives should not get involved in these issues. OTH, if he mentions his wife in his posts it is fair to cite this fact in comments.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Seversky



Posts: 415
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,23:20   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Aug. 31 2011,21:06)
Since Bob O'H named the previous thread after his house pet feline overlord, I figure I can get away with naming the next after Foster, a dearly loved and missed dog.  He was a better person than most people who legitimately are classified as homo sapien, especially a fair number of those retrograde knotheads over at UD.



Too maudlin?

Not in the slightest.  Foster looks to be a fine fellow, a canine superior in every way to the asinine at UD.

This is another thing I hold against the UD version of Christianity:  a heaven which does not admit loyal companions like your Foster or my Sam can do without me as well.  Not that there is much chance of me getting there even if it does exist.


  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,00:36   

Don't you just love that brand new thread smell.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1670
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,05:12   

ftk mode on:  
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 31 2011,21:26)
   
Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 01 2011,03:08)
Shroedinger's Dog:
       
Quote
Ras + Louis = Catfight!

Enjoy the video.

Thank you. I shall now make a joke about what you do to horses, as is customary.

Won't anybody think of the gerbils?

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
Patrick



Posts: 552
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,05:50   

Quote (Louis @ Aug. 31 2011,15:46)
Ahhhh /b/. Yes Patrick, I'm well aware of /b/

I'm sure you either stumbled upon it accidentally or clicked a link sent by a malicious prankster and, in either case, quickly closed that browser window.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,07:33   

Quote (MichaelJ @ Sep. 01 2011,01:36)
Don't you just love that brand new thread smell.

um yes sorry about that my tummy is still hurting a bit from the last thread

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,07:34   

Louis said, through twisted knickers

Quote
expressing mild disagreement/having a discussion =/= getting knickers in a knot.


oh come now you know that is EXACTLY LITERALLY PRECISELY THE SAME THING YOU EVEN SPELL IT THE SAME WAY

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
k.e..



Posts: 2926
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,08:19   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Sep. 01 2011,15:33)
Quote (MichaelJ @ Sep. 01 2011,01:36)
Don't you just love that brand new thread smell.

um yes sorry about that my tummy is still hurting a bit from the last thread

HAH.

YOU KNOW THE FIRST FEW PINTS OUT OF THE KEG ARE A BIT WATERY.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Henry J



Posts: 4080
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,11:28   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 01 2011,04:12)
Won't anybody think of the gerbils?

Why, are they attacking somebody?

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,13:04   

Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 01 2011,11:50)
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 31 2011,15:46)
Ahhhh /b/. Yes Patrick, I'm well aware of /b/

I'm sure you either stumbled upon it accidentally or clicked a link sent by a malicious prankster and, in either case, quickly closed that browser window.

Nope. I went there on purpose as part of an educational tour of the internet. All very proper and above board. Very educational too.

Very. Educational.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,15:19   

Darwin still failing at UD:

Quote
Next: 2006: Dissent from Darwin is becoming more open among professionals

All posts in this series:

2006: Dissent from Darwin is becoming more open among professionals

2007: Darwinist efforts to stifle the ID community are failing

2008: Lots of people doubt Darwin that you didn’t think would, and are not afraid to say so

2009: The modern (neo-Darwinian) synthesis is – safely – admitted to be fading

2010: Layer on layer of intricacy outstrips Darwinian just-so stories
http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....e-years


http://chem.tufts.edu/Answers....se.html

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,19:02   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 01 2011,21:19)
Darwin still failing at UD:

 
Quote
Next: 2006: Dissent from Darwin is becoming more open among professionals

All posts in this series:

2006: Dissent from Darwin is becoming more open among professionals

2007: Darwinist efforts to stifle the ID community are failing

2008: Lots of people doubt Darwin that you didn’t think would, and are not afraid to say so

2009: The modern (neo-Darwinian) synthesis is – safely – admitted to be fading

2010: Layer on layer of intricacy outstrips Darwinian just-so stories
http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....e-years


http://chem.tufts.edu/Answers....se.html

2007:
Quote
Quote
The top intelligent design book honors for 2007 goes to Michael Behe’s Edge of Evolution [bla bla bla]

The “edge” of evolution, a line that defines the border between random and non-random mutation, lies very far from where Darwin pointed. Behe argues convincingly that most of the mutations that have defined the history of life on earth have been non-random.

Most Darwinist response is ill-informed attacks and cries of “Darwindunit!” when it was plentifully obvious that Darwin didn’t do it.



--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1670
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,23:49   

Thylacine sighting at UD.  

I remember that some bigtime ID evolution critic displayed two pictures of a thylacine, one reversed and desaturated, to illustrate some creationist falsehood a few years ago.  Anybody remember who that was?  Was that Cornelius Hunter?

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,02:31   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 01 2011,23:49)
Thylacine sighting at UD.  

I remember that some bigtime ID evolution critic displayed two pictures of a thylacine, one reversed and desaturated, to illustrate some creationist falsehood a few years ago.  Anybody remember who that was?  Was that Cornelius Hunter?

Yes, indeed.  See Wesley's brilliant take on it. It's still up-to-date because Corny didn't change a bit since then.

ETA:


--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1670
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,06:03   

Thanks.  That restores my faith in ID/Creationism.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,06:35   

Gordo equates atheists with paedophiles:



It goes on but....

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,06:43   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 02 2011,12:35)
Gordo equates atheists with paedophiles:



It goes on but....

He truly is a deeply lovely human being.

Hmmmm. Wait. Lovely is the same as odious right?

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,06:49   

At least he doesn't poison the atmosphere.

Is there a link for that, or at least a thread title?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:02   

The funny thing is that Christian churches protect pedophiles and actually keep them on the payroll, without denying them access to their prey.

The occasional voice of protest echos in the cathedral.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:05   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 02 2011,12:35)
Gordo equates atheists with paedophiles:



It goes on but....

[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-universe-is-too-big-too-old-and-too-cruel-three-silly-objections-to-cosmological-fine-

tuning-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-398071]Again[/URL].

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:22   

I'm feeling much better now:

Quote
Now, since I have you on the line, let me ask you to consider a wild scenario regarding all those babies Yahweh had the Israelites kill: what if you came to know with metaphysical certainty that the consciousness inhabited by each one of those poor little babies was actually something akin to a Hitler or Stalin in a former incarnation on a different planet? How would that color your view about their being killed in such a manner by the Israelites during their incarnation on this planet?


Edit to add:

I'm somewhat interested in how one can be guilty simple by thinking bad thoughts in utero. Not to mention the inheritance of guilt from past lives.

Freaking amazing what that site tolerates and doesn't tolerate.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:35   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 02 2011,06:49)
At least he doesn't poison the atmosphere.

Is there a link for that, or at least a thread title?

Click on the image itself.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:48   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 02 2011,13:22)
I'm feeling much better now:

 
Quote
Now, since I have you on the line, let me ask you to consider a wild scenario regarding all those babies Yahweh had the Israelites kill: what if you came to know with metaphysical certainty that the consciousness inhabited by each one of those poor little babies was actually something akin to a Hitler or Stalin in a former incarnation on a different planet? How would that color your view about their being killed in such a manner by the Israelites during their incarnation on this planet?


Edit to add:

I'm somewhat interested in how one can be guilty simple by thinking bad thoughts in utero. Not to mention the inheritance of guilt from past lives.

Freaking amazing what that site tolerates and doesn't tolerate.

Yeah but we tolerate Teh Gayz which makes us atheists as bad as paedophiles sooper secret agenda paedophile apologists paedophiles on a daily basis.

HTH, HAND.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,08:22   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 02 2011,13:22)
I'm somewhat interested in how one can be guilty simple by thinking bad thoughts in utero. Not to mention the inheritance of guilt from past lives.

Isn't the inheritance of guilt a central belief of Christianity?
We are all fallen sinners and such?
And punishment of the children for the sins of their fathers.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,09:30   

Quote
 
Quote
Here’s morality in a nutshell: What hurts or harms sentient organisms is bad. Deliberately or carelessly doing needless bad things is evil.


You’re irrationally borrowing your moral concepts from religion, Dmullenix. As an atheist, your starting point is:

Quote
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.


Now, kindly explain where morality fits into that unavoidable component of the atheistic worldview.

I don't get it. The universe might show nothing but blind, pitiless indifference, but humans are clearly not indifferent. Humans have empathy, they care for their children, they're able to reflect about their actions and how these might affect others. That's a pretty good basis for developing morality, IMO.

I also observe that the universe is pretty dark, cold, and mostly empty, and I still have lights, a heating system, and furniture.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,09:39   

Quote
Humans have empathy


It's a trait that varies in strength, just like any other trait.

It's fun, although probably not instructive, to speculate on whether the mix of empathetic and non-empathetic individuals helps a population survive.

Formal morality and law is obviously a way of coping with non-empathetic people.

In some sense, that's what defines original sin. Lack of empathy.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Patrick



Posts: 552
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,09:53   

markf ftw:
Quote
One way of looking at this. If ID can only measure its progress through objections to “Darwinism” then how is progress in ID different from progress in any other creationist movement such as AIG?

Not even UD can spin ID's "achievements" over the past five years any better than that.

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,09:57   

Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,09:30)

I also observe that the universe is pretty dark, cold, and mostly empty, and I still have lights, a heating system, and furniture.

At least for now you do.  But just wait for the new austerity measures that are just around the corner.

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,10:08   

My heat went out a few years ago. I live in Florida, but it still gets below freezing several times a year.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,10:21   

Quote (noncarborundum @ Sep. 02 2011,15:57)
 
Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,09:30)

I also observe that the universe is pretty dark, cold, and mostly empty, and I still have lights, a heating system, and furniture.

At least for now you do.  But just wait for the new austerity measures that are just around the corner.

I'll fight for my couch to the death!
OTOH, I'm using energy saving bulbs* since approximately 1995, so they don't get me there ;)

* Since yesterday, 60-watt bulbs are banned in all countries of the European union (100-watt and 75-watt bulbs were already banned).

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,10:52   

Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,16:21)
[SNIP]

OTOH, I'm using energy saving bulbs*

[SNIP]

* Since yesterday, 60-watt bulbs are banned in all countries of the European union (100-watt and 75-watt bulbs were already banned).

ZOMG SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!

Energy saving bulbs are wicked and evil and do not represent proper/Jesus'/American/British/Whatever bulbs that have been around forever since Adam made them in the Garden of Eden and these new bulbs give you cancer and are due to that fake global warming stuff which is a communist, atheist, gay, leftie, black, tree hugger plot made to take money from rich, white people (who are the best at everything ever and deserve to be by divine/biological/both right) and you can't tell me that's not true because old bulbs give better light and it's not entirely subjective at all oh no it's not.

And they lower house prices and encourage dirty dirty immigrants who are now white, but speak funny, which makes us confused because we can't call them pakis.

[/Daily Mail and/or my mother]

Louis

ETA: How did I do?

--------------
Bye.

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,11:04   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 02 2011,16:52)
 
Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,16:21)
[SNIP]

OTOH, I'm using energy saving bulbs*

[SNIP]

* Since yesterday, 60-watt bulbs are banned in all countries of the European union (100-watt and 75-watt bulbs were already banned).

ZOMG SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!

Energy saving bulbs are wicked and evil and do not represent proper/Jesus'/American/British/Whatever bulbs that have been around forever since Adam made them in the Garden of Eden and these new bulbs give you cancer and are due to that fake global warming stuff which is a communist, atheist, gay, leftie, black, tree hugger plot made to take money from rich, white people (who are the best at everything ever and deserve to be by divine/biological/both right) and you can't tell me that's not true because old bulbs give better light and it's not entirely subjective at all oh no it's not.

And they lower house prices and encourage dirty dirty immigrants who are now white, but speak funny, which makes us confused because we can't call them pakis.

[/Daily Mail and/or my mother]

Louis

ETA: How did I do?

Pretty good, but you forgot that it's a conspiracy by Osram and Philipps to monopolise the market*, that energy saving bulbs are actually WORSE for the environment, and that they lead to depression.

ETA: * which nicely fits in with the communist etc. plot to take money from the rich.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3321
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,11:08   

Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,11:04)
Quote (Louis @ Sep. 02 2011,16:52)
 
Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,16:21)
[SNIP]

OTOH, I'm using energy saving bulbs*

[SNIP]

* Since yesterday, 60-watt bulbs are banned in all countries of the European union (100-watt and 75-watt bulbs were already banned).

ZOMG SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!

Energy saving bulbs are wicked and evil and do not represent proper/Jesus'/American/British/Whatever bulbs that have been around forever since Adam made them in the Garden of Eden and these new bulbs give you cancer and are due to that fake global warming stuff which is a communist, atheist, gay, leftie, black, tree hugger plot made to take money from rich, white people (who are the best at everything ever and deserve to be by divine/biological/both right) and you can't tell me that's not true because old bulbs give better light and it's not entirely subjective at all oh no it's not.

And they lower house prices and encourage dirty dirty immigrants who are now white, but speak funny, which makes us confused because we can't call them pakis.

[/Daily Mail and/or my mother]

Louis

ETA: How did I do?

Pretty good, but you forgot that it's a conspiracy by Osram and Philipps to monopolise the market, that energy saving bulbs are actually WORSE for the environment, and that they lead to depression.

Don't forget the mercury... won't someone think of the egrets?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,11:12   

{Facepalm}

The mercury, conspiracy and worse for the environment? How could forget those?

I'm getting old. BAH!!

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,11:32   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 02 2011,17:12)
{Facepalm}

The mercury, conspiracy and worse for the environment? How could forget those?

I'm getting old. BAH!!

Louis

There's *always* a conspiracy, and if they THEY claim otherwise, it's a cover-up. If you claim otherwise, you're either a naive dupe or in THEIR pockets. No evidence for a conspiracy only shows how deep-reaching THEIR influence is. And if the conspiracy theory only works if governments and scientists all over the world are together in it, that only means that you should buy 10 000 light bulbs, a diesel generator, a plywood shack somewhere in the woods, and a gun if you live in the US (I actually read that in a comment...) or that you should buy 10 000 light bulbs, leave all your lights on at all times (that'll show Them!)*, and get really angry in the pub, if you live in Germany. In the UK, you'll probably become Lord Monckton.

* I read that one, too.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
Patrick



Posts: 552
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,19:26   

markf continues pwning UD:
Quote
However, your point is interesting. It seems you are suggesting that the ID argument is:

“known non-design alternatives for life are wrong therefore life was designed”

I think this is a good summary of the ID argument but do you really support it? I have spent hours hearing from people on the ID side protesting that this is not the case. They claim there is positive evidence for design as well as evidence against “Darwinism”.

Barry "Free Speech For Me But Not For Thee" Arrington helpfully points Mark to ID's positive claims, including:
Quote
1.  Living things display IC and FSCI.

2.  Material forces have never been shown to produce IC and FSCI.

3.  Intelligent agents routinely produce IC and FSCI.

4.  Therefore, based on the evidence that we have in front of us, the best explanation for the presence of IC and FSCI in living things is that they are the result of acts of an intelligent agent.

So, Barry, how about some examples of how to calculate this FSCI thing you're on about?  You could start with these four scenarios.

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,22:16   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 02 2011,06:35)
Gordo equates atheists with paedophiles:



It goes on but....

According to Gordon E. Mullings it was not clear if the actress in the porn KairosFocus admittted to have watched was even 18:  
Quote
This lovely, fresh-faced smiling young miss (I gather she was precisely 18 at the time of this picture)

Of course it is not his fault:
 
Quote
There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up.

Thus, we are being lured into a world of graphical, aural and verbal stimulation, designed to pull us into an addiction to not only watching but participating in anything-goes action, and to eventually join the fun by (a) taking and posting public pictures of your "equipment" or adventures, or even (b) advertising in pop-ups on the same sites.


--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
k.e..



Posts: 2926
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,07:18   

Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 02 2011,17:53)
markf ftw:
Quote
One way of looking at this. If ID can only measure its progress through objections to “Darwinism” then how is progress in ID different from progress in any other creationist movement such as AIG?

Not even UD can spin ID's "achievements" over the past five years any better than that.

umm don't spoil the party dude.

In the name of the lord let them be our most obedient servants.



aAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

GAFAW

<snikker>

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Seversky



Posts: 415
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,11:35   

DeNews quotes Mark Steyn getting all nostalgic about the movie Apollo 13.  She tries to smear current thinking in cosmology by linking it to the fiction of the upcoming Apollo 18.

Quote
Now, some fear NASA will end up in tune with crackpot cosmologies. You know, “We are living in a giant hologram, or a giant trailer filled with poop, or whatever Stephen Hawking says we are living in” because he is The Smartest Man in the WorldTM, and these days genius beats exploration as a source of knowledge.


Obviously, it's much better to rely on a book filled with stories of talking snakes or sticks that turn into snakes or voices speaking out of burning bushes or the parting of seas or people turned into pillars of salt for just looking the wrong way.  Let's keep things real here, people.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2137
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,12:59   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)
     
Quote
There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up.

Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo?

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,13:23   

Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59)
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)
       
Quote
There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up.

Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo?

Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor.

I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising...







*I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years.

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3321
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,13:56   

Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23)
Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59)
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)
       
Quote
There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up.

Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo?

Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor.

I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising...







*I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years.

Also make sure you spell "Toyota" correctly and I don't suggest "whitehouse.com"

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1670
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,14:22   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 03 2011,13:56)

Also make sure you spell "Toyota" correctly and I don't suggest "whitehouse.com"

Whitehouse.com is down now, but Wiki says this: "In 2004 Dan Parisi decided to sell the domain, mainly because of his son who would be in kindergarten the next year. At this point he was making US$1 million annually from the site alone."

Who was it who said, "I'm not in politics for my health?"

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
paragwinn



Posts: 400
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,16:13   

Densey O'Bleary's Philosophy of Science:  
Quote
Intelligent design will prevail when engineers rule.

Cuz an engineer would never tell you that we live in a giant trailer full of poop.

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
Seversky



Posts: 415
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,18:14   

Quote (paragwinn @ Sep. 03 2011,16:13)
Densey O'Bleary's Philosophy of Science:    
Quote
Intelligent design will prevail when engineers rule.

Cuz an engineer would never tell you that we live in a giant trailer full of poop.

Tacoma Narrows Bridge

Titanic

Hindenberg

Hyatt Regency Walkway (Kansas City)

Ford Pinto

London Millenium Footbridge

Space Shuttle Challenger

Chernobyl

Tay Bridge (Scotland)

De Havilland Comet

Deepwater Horizon

... etc

Yep, engineers are so much less error-prone than all the other disciplines and professions..

  
Amadan



Posts: 1255
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,19:20   

If doctors bury their mistakes, lawyers appeal theirs, and scientists build on theirs, what do engineers do?


PS: Are statisticians reasonably certain of  their mistakes?

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Patrick



Posts: 552
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,19:54   

Quote (Seversky @ Sep. 03 2011,19:14)
Quote (paragwinn @ Sep. 03 2011,16:13)
Densey O'Bleary's Philosophy of Science:      
Quote
Intelligent design will prevail when engineers rule.

Cuz an engineer would never tell you that we live in a giant trailer full of poop.

Tacoma Narrows Bridge

Titanic

Hindenberg

Hyatt Regency Walkway (Kansas City)

Ford Pinto

London Millenium Footbridge

Space Shuttle Challenger

Chernobyl

Tay Bridge (Scotland)

De Havilland Comet

Deepwater Horizon

... etc

Yep, engineers are so much less error-prone than all the other disciplines and professions..

You left out Bhopal.  Won't someone think of the chemical engineers?

  
paragwinn



Posts: 400
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,20:54   

Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 03 2011,17:54)
Quote (Seversky @ Sep. 03 2011,19:14)
Quote (paragwinn @ Sep. 03 2011,16:13)
Densey O'Bleary's Philosophy of Science:      
Quote
Intelligent design will prevail when engineers rule.

Cuz an engineer would never tell you that we live in a giant trailer full of poop.

Tacoma Narrows Bridge

Titanic

Hindenberg

Hyatt Regency Walkway (Kansas City)

Ford Pinto

London Millenium Footbridge

Space Shuttle Challenger

Chernobyl

Tay Bridge (Scotland)

De Havilland Comet

Deepwater Horizon

... etc

Yep, engineers are so much less error-prone than all the other disciplines and professions..

You left out Bhopal.  Won't someone think of the chemical engineers?

That's right, take all the limelight away from the railroad and custodial engineers!

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3321
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,21:02   

Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 03 2011,19:20)
If doctors bury their mistakes, lawyers appeal theirs, and scientists build on theirs, what do engineers do?


PS: Are statisticians reasonably certain of  their mistakes?

Engineers blame the accountants.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,21:18   

ID will prevail when D O'L transforms into a woman.

  
paragwinn



Posts: 400
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,22:09   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 03 2011,19:18)
ID will prevail when D O'L transforms into a woman.

As portrayed in the upcoming cinematic feature "Tranmawformers: Back-Side of the Dog" using CSI effects, engineered by GilDo, legally protected by Barry 'Jackpot' Arrington.

(To be double-featured with "Expelled II: Intelligence IOU" )

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
Henry J



Posts: 4080
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,23:43   

Quote
If doctors bury their mistakes, lawyers appeal theirs, and scientists build on theirs, what do engineers do?

Hit the reboot button?

Henry

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,00:31   

Quote
I am a software/aerodynamics/mechanical/artificial-intelligence/information-processing/integrating-all-of-these-engineering-disciplines engineer
says the one time piano player who owns three college degrees in foreign language, literature, and music who otherwise spent a consiiderable time of his life hanging around without any further formal education.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,00:55   

Quote
Genetics paper retracted: “Some other mechanism” is responsible for genetic mutations
September 3, 2011
Posted by News under Evolution, Genetics, Intelligent Design, Natural selection, News
No Comments


In “Genetics Paper Retracted: Due to statistical errors, a Science paper claiming that mutation is responsible for genetic variation is retracted” (The Scientist September 2, 2011), Jessica P. Johnson reports,

Quote
A May 2010 Science paper showing that the most genetically fit cow-pea weevils have fewer deleterious genetic mutations in their genomes than their less fit counterparts was retracted yesterday (September 1) by the authors because of flaws in their statistical analysis.
Quote
The results apparently supported the hypothesis that individuals with the fewest bad mutations will produce the most fit offspring.
Quote
The revised data analysis, which shows little effect on fitness due to mutation, suggests that some other mechanism may instead be responsible for maintaining genetic variation in weevil populations.

Wonder what?

Must have been the designer at work.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,00:57   

BTW, it is good to know that due to their moral superiority decent behaviour like retracting errornous papers is so common among ID scientists.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Seversky



Posts: 415
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,02:05   

DeNews as always speaks out for academic freedom:

 
Quote
 
Quote
The zone of protected professorial speech is shrinking.


They might want to check into what’s happening to students too. They should see Expelled as well.

Today’s universities are a living antithesis of everything North American nations were founded for.


Ah, yes.  There was that notorious case of the professor at some Southern Baptist seminary who wrote something that was felt to be at odds with orthodox opinion at the institution.  He was invited to 'clarify' his position or look for another job.  

DeNews really gave them a hard time over that.

Or was that someone else?

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,02:21   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 03 2011,19:18)
ID will prevail when D O'L transforms into a woman.

don't you mean finishes the transformation? Or am I confusing D with someone else?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,06:42   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 03 2011,22:18)
ID will prevail when D O'L transforms into a woman.

trans being operative

disgusting stick up it's disgusting ass, that would make a redwood shave it's face and walk backwards because its ass is inadequate

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Seversky



Posts: 415
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,08:32   

DeNews and the rabbis continue their sinful ways:

 
Quote
Rabbi pleads with Darwinian atheists: Turn back from legal pedophilia. But they can’t.


1.  DeNews sees no difference between journalism and propaganda and thereby ignores the commandment against bearing false witness.

2.  Various celebrity clergy are quick to smear atheism for implying amorality and hence permitting pedophilia.  They ignore the evidence that religious belief does not provide an insurmountable barrier to pedophilia which brings to mind a saying about glass houses and stone-throwing.

3.  Even worse is that, while the Lord took care to prohibit things like taking His name in vain, making graven images or coveting the neighbor's ox, He apparently overlooked the small matter of abusing children - or maybe He didn't consider it such a big deal.

4.  They all sidestep the is/ought problem and the Euthyphro Dilemma.

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,08:54   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 03 2011,13:56)
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23)
Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59)
 
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)
         
Quote
There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up.

Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo?

Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor.

I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising...







*I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years.

Also make sure you spell "Toyota" correctly and I don't suggest "whitehouse.com"

Serious question:  what misspelling of Toyota should I be using in my "research"?

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,09:04   

Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23)
Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59)
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)
       
Quote
There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up.

Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo?

Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor.

I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising...







*I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years.

To me, Gordo is more like another Leroy.

LEEEEEEEEEROOOYYYYYYY  JENKINS!

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,09:16   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Sep. 04 2011,15:04)
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23)
Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59)
 
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)
         
Quote
There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up.

Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo?

Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor.

I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising...







*I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years.

To me, Gordo is more like another Leroy.

LEEEEEEEEEROOOYYYYYYY  JENKINS!

All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...

;-)

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,09:20   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Sep. 04 2011,14:54)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 03 2011,13:56)
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23)
 
Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59)
 
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)
         
Quote
There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up.

Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo?

Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor.

I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising...







*I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years.

Also make sure you spell "Toyota" correctly and I don't suggest "whitehouse.com"

Serious question:  what misspelling of Toyota should I be using in my "research"?

I was wondering about that too. I'm not sure I want to know the answer, but I will confess to being curious.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,09:58   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 03 2011,22:31)
       
Quote
I am a software/aerodynamics/mechanical/artificial-intelligence/information-processing/integrating-all-of-these-engineering-disciplines engineer
says the one time piano player who owns three college degrees in foreign language, literature, and music who otherwise spent a consiiderable time of his life hanging around without any further formal education.

And let's not forget:
" I once took a class to learn how to run LS-DYNA, a simulator engine developed by some other really smart folks.
Now I are a both an engineer and a scientist!".

Shows how little you need to know to be a simulator jock:

1)  take a guess, based on what has worked previously.
2)  run the sim,
3)  tweak a parameter or two,
4)  re-run the sim.
5)  continue trial and error until it works.

Hmm,  where have I seen this mindless procedure work before?

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3321
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,11:24   

Hmm... Joe seems to still think that our 'debate' was about evolution.  Him and medplex are upset because I never did define evolution.

Of course, I stated that I agreed with all of Joe's definitions of evolution EXCEPT the strawman one that is the only one he actually argues against.  When called on that definition and asked to find a single reference that used it, he ran away.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....om-fish

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,13:48   

Quote (sledgehammer @ Sep. 04 2011,09:58)
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 03 2011,22:31)
       
Quote
I am a software/aerodynamics/mechanical/artificial-intelligence/information-processing/integrating-all-of-these-engineering-disciplines engineer
says the one time piano player who owns three college degrees in foreign language, literature, and music who otherwise spent a consiiderable time of his life hanging around without any further formal education.

And let's not forget:
" I once took a class to learn how to run LS-DYNA, a simulator engine developed by some other really smart folks.
Now I are a both an engineer and a scientist!".

Shows how little you need to know to be a simulator jock:

1)  take a guess, based on what has worked previously.
2)  run the sim,
3)  tweak a parameter or two,
4)  re-run the sim.
5)  continue trial and error until it works.

Hmm,  where have I seen this mindless procedure work before?

UD News?

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,18:11   

Gordo
Quote
Is it any surprise that what we used to call lumpen proletariat elements would soak in the atmosphere of amorality and resort to nihilistic, opportunistic looting; without being able to quote Nietzsche. Why should they, it was all written into their school books and the teacher’s scripts for classes, it was trumpeted all over TV, it was in the papers and it was on the net.


Er, right-o. Nailed that on the head.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
N.Wells



Posts: 846
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,18:19   

Quote (Seversky @ Sep. 04 2011,08:32)
3.  Even worse is that, while the Lord took care to prohibit things like taking His name in vain, making graven images or coveting the neighbor's ox, He apparently overlooked the small matter of abusing children - or maybe He didn't consider it such a big deal.

Not at all - Jesus specifically commanded "Suffer the little children", and the Vatican is merely trying its utmost to ensure that they do.
(/snark)

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,19:34   

Just started watching a documentary called Mystical Brain.  In the first few minutes it quotes O'Leary's Spatula Brain coauthor Mario Beauregard:
Quote
We lived in the country.  I had lots of time to think.  Already when I was young, I had an inner certainty that the essence of human beings, the soul if you will, was a phenomenon linked to the brain, but was not the brain.  One could not be reduced to the other.  As a child, I thought, "When I grow up, I'll become a scientist, and I'll demonstrate that."

It's a nice summary of the ID attitude toward science: "I already know the Truth.  I can't be wrong. Science's job is to confirm what I know, and by God, I'll twist and mangle it until it does."

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,20:47   

Apropos of nothing specific:


--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
Henry J



Posts: 4080
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,22:13   

Most people have two souls.

One on each foot.

  
Amadan



Posts: 1255
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,06:25   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13)
Most people have two souls.

One on each foot.

... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE?

(I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser)

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,06:41   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16)
All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...

;-)

Louis

What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry:

Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons.

Carry on, then.

--------------
I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,09:29   

Quote
     
Quote
That antibiotic resistance likely jumped from the soil bacteria to disease-causing bacteria.

You mean, it was due to jumping genes, not Darwinian evolution?

Remember when failure to believe that Darwinian evolution is the cause of antibiotic resistence was supposed to endanger the nation’s health? Quaint.

I just headdesked so hard, I feel slightly concussed.

ETA:Link

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,10:11   

Quote (Wolfhound @ Sep. 05 2011,12:41)
Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16)
All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...

;-)

Louis

What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry:

Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons.

Carry on, then.

I would never suggest that. Although you do seem to have a bad case of Altoholism. Which server are you on? Do you raid? What spec is your druid?*

Louis

*Not that I know about these things. Never played the game in my life. Honest.

--------------
Bye.

  
Patrick



Posts: 552
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,11:01   

Quote (Wolfhound @ Sep. 05 2011,07:41)
Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16)
All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...

;-)

Louis

What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry:

Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons.

Carry on, then.

Depends.  Shadow or Holy priest?

  
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,13:39   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 05 2011,11:11)
Quote (Wolfhound @ Sep. 05 2011,12:41)
Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16)
All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...

;-)

Louis

What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry:

Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons.

Carry on, then.

I would never suggest that. Although you do seem to have a bad case of Altoholism. Which server are you on? Do you raid? What spec is your druid?*

Louis

*Not that I know about these things. Never played the game in my life. Honest.

Druid is a Boomchicken because I'm too chickenshit to try healing, although I AM dual specced for it.

I play on the US Bloodhoof server, as does Deadman.  Both Alliance.  I don't get to raid any more because of this absolute shit satellite ISP I have here in the sticks of Washington State.  650 latency is a GOOD day for me.  Normally it's 800-2k so the lag is too much for even random instances, much less raiding.  I used to OWN Icecrown Citadel, back before I moved.  Waaaah!

I'll tell you our toons' names if you care to look us up.  Deadman raids pretty regularly and is a bit of a gear whore, even if he denies it.  He's even a Defender of A Shattered World, the bastard!   :angry:

--------------
I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,13:44   

Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 05 2011,12:01)
Quote (Wolfhound @ Sep. 05 2011,07:41)
Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16)
All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...

;-)

Louis

What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry:

Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons.

Carry on, then.

Depends.  Shadow or Holy priest?

Shadow is primary.  Holy is secondary.  :)

--------------
I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,13:52   

Crazy kids...


I played Minesweeper, once.

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
Alan Fox



Posts: 1365
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,14:00   

Who on Earth is this nutcase? Anyone curious enough to follow the link to his blog? Is this the messiah we've been waiting for?

 
Quote
Each and every living cell on Earth is inhabited by live beings, both mono-cells and cells that cluster to live in poly-cell life forms.


Next!

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1979
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,14:51   

Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 05 2011,06:25)
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13)
Most people have two souls.

One on each foot.

... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE?

(I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser)

I meta tarsier once.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Alan Fox



Posts: 1365
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:01   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 05 2011,09:51)
Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 05 2011,06:25)
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13)
Most people have two souls.

One on each foot.

... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE?

(I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser)

I meta tarsier once.

You didn't mistake it for flying phalanges by any chance?

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:02   

Quote
You may find this version fraught with insights, with answers to yet unanswered questions and with directions for thought, study and work IF, if like the boy in The Emperor's New Clothes, you call what you see; if you regard the in-cell contents a life-bearing micro-space-ship at a homeostatic state.


not enough crank fontage to convince me of teh truthiness.  for someone bringing galactic level tard, the poor dumb sombitch sure needs some lessons in presentation

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:17   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 05 2011,12:51)
 
Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 05 2011,06:25)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13)
Most people have two souls.

One on each foot.

... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE?

(I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser)

I meta tarsier once.

Groan.... Talus you won't do that again, or I'll have to put my foot down.  You're just tap-dancing around the issue.

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:30   

These pun cascades just stain my sole...

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
paragwinn



Posts: 400
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:35   

Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 05 2011,13:30)
These pun cascades just stain my sole...

They are my Achille's Heel.

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,16:41   

Quote (sledgehammer @ Sep. 05 2011,16:17)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 05 2011,12:51)
 
Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 05 2011,06:25)
   
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13)
Most people have two souls.

One on each foot.

... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE?

(I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser)

I meta tarsier once.

Groan.... Talus you won't do that again, or I'll have to put my foot down.  You're just tap-dancing around the issue.

Aglet it drop, if I was you.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,22:56   

Gilbert Dodgen:
Quote
At age 90 as of 2011, my father is one of the few living scientists who developed the atomic bomb during WWII. He named me after the great physical chemist Gilbert Newton Lewis, under whom my dad earned his Ph.D. in his early 20s while working on the Manhattan Project.

When I was a child in the 1950s rumors spread that the communist Chinese were developing an atomic bomb. I asked my dad, “Why don’t we just keep it a secret from them?” My dad replied, and I’ll never forget it, “Gilbert, the secret is in nature, and it’s there to be found by anyone who looks hard enough.”

Of course, my dad was talking about the nature of the nucleus of the atom, physical chemistry, and the potential for a sustained nuclear chain reaction.

I would like to offer the following observation, inspired by my father’s comment: Design is to be found in nature, by anyone who looks hard enough.

The irony is that figuring out nuclear fission requires quite a bit of searching for “secrets,” while design in nature is there to be found with almost no searching at all. Design screams from every corner of creation. Not finding design in nature is what takes a lot of effort.

Poor Frill's head is going to explode if he tiptoes any closer to the inevitable question.  Dissonance much, Gil?

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
didymos



Posts: 1825
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,00:33   

I don't know why, but the lack of self-awareness over there still stupefies me.  DeNews:

Quote
In fairness, Matzke doesn’t really know much about carnivorous plants, whereas Loennig is clearly an expert.

Matzke has a tendency to rely on pseudo-experts, which can play him false.

His best bet right now, to event he score, would be to bring in a real expert on his side.


Her stupidity is truly awe-inspiring.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,03:40   

Quote (didymos @ Sep. 06 2011,00:33)
I don't know why, but the lack of self-awareness over there still stupefies me.  DeNews:

 
Quote
In fairness, Matzke doesn’t really know much about carnivorous plants, whereas Loennig is clearly an expert.

Matzke has a tendency to rely on pseudo-experts, which can play him false.

His best bet right now, to event he score, would be to bring in a real expert on his side.


Her stupidity is truly awe-inspiring.

Ah, Lönnig again. As usual he cites Behe and other creationists in his article "Carnivorous Plants" that somehow made it into Nature's Encyclopaedia of Life Sciences. Interestingly, he cites Robert Nachtwey's "Der Irrweg des Darwinismus" published 1959. According to a review it contained already everything that Intelligent Design claims today and those arguments were outdated back then:
Quote
We could dispose of this book and its
subject-the misdirection of Darwinism
-in a few sentences. On the basis of its
intrinsic merit it rates only a little space.
But the very fact that such a work could
be published a century after Darwin's
The Origin of Species is interesting in
itself and, to anyone concerned with the
resistance that scientific knowledge often
encounters, this fact is important enough
to merit some study.


ETA link

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,06:15   

Quote
If you are referring to the God of the Bible, then He owes us nothing other than punishment for our crimes against Him. If this makes no sense to you, then you plainly fail to understand simple Biblical theology.

LOL.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,06:37   

As if Gil Dodgen never ever mentioned the achievements of his father before:
Quote
3
Robert Byers
September 6, 2011 at 3:12 ame

Didn’t know one of the writers here comes from such a achieving family in the great stories of the use of physics. Too bad its killing people but in reality the atomic bombs had to be used to save people from being killed other ways. The good guys too.
Its cool to have creationism(s) these days with rightfully confident people.



Will Gildo tell Robert that his father is an atheist not dismissing evolution theory?
BTW: Since when is ID creationism?
Or do I miss irony and Mr. Byers pisses off Gildo?

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4505
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,06:46   

Quote (didymos @ Sep. 06 2011,00:33)
I don't know why, but the lack of self-awareness over there still stupefies me.  DeNews:

 
Quote
In fairness, Matzke doesn’t really know much about carnivorous plants, whereas Loennig is clearly an expert.

Matzke has a tendency to rely on pseudo-experts, which can play him false.

His best bet right now, to event he score, would be to bring in a real expert on his side.


Her stupidity is truly awe-inspiring.

expert  - n., connotation: Someone who authoritatively tells you what you want to hear.

As long as IDC advocates and cheerleaders go with that, they'll keep giving us those Dover moments in court.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Henry J



Posts: 4080
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,12:24   

And here I though an expert was somebody what used to be a pert...

  
Woodbine



Posts: 788
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,12:26   

Well I learned something today. For as long as I can remember I had been pronouncing Gil with a soft G but now I discover it's short for Gilbert.

Gilbert Dodgen.

Someone really ought to tell him the Universe is taking the piss out of him. The only other Gil I am aware of is Gil Gerard (Buck Rogers). And so without further excuse here's a picture of the lovely Wilma Deering.

(snatched from wilmadeering.com believe it or not)


  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,12:49   

Doesn't this post break some kind of rule at UD?

there is no systematic relationship between IQ and achievement

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
BillB



Posts: 359
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,13:58   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 06 2011,18:24)
And here I though an expert was somebody what used to be a pert...

ex-pert. (Noun):  female breasts that have succumbed to the forces of gravity and age.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,14:03   

I don't know if this has been posted, but the new Koonin book is available free for download At Amazon. If you non't have a Kindle, you can download a free reader.

The News at UD is rather stupidly touting it as an ID friendly book.

Details here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng....freebie

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,14:04   

Quote (BillB @ Sep. 06 2011,19:58)
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 06 2011,18:24)
And here I though an expert was somebody what used to be a pert...

ex-pert. (Noun):  female breasts that have succumbed to the forces of gravity and age.

There's an excellent section of "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue"* in which new definitions are given to old words. For example:

Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan.

Coquette: Small penis.

And so on and so forth.

Louis

* The Radio 4 show that gave us Mornington Crescent.

--------------
Bye.

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,14:34   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 06 2011,14:04)
 
Quote (BillB @ Sep. 06 2011,19:58)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 06 2011,18:24)
And here I though an expert was somebody what used to be a pert...

ex-pert. (Noun):  female breasts that have succumbed to the forces of gravity and age.

There's an excellent section of "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue"* in which new definitions are given to old words. For example:

Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan.

Coquette: Small penis.

And so on and so forth.

Louis

* The Radio 4 show that gave us Mornington Crescent.

rec·ti·tude  (r?kt?-t??d, -ty??d) n. the honorable, upright demeanor assumed by your proctologist as he prepares to examine you.

ETA:  those length-marked vowels looked just fine in preview.

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Raevmo



Posts: 235
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,17:48   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 06 2011,14:03)
I don't know if this has been posted, but the new Koonin book is available free for download At Amazon. If you non't have a Kindle, you can download a free reader.

The News at UD is rather stupidly touting it as an ID friendly book.

Details here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng....freebie

That is putting is mildly. Quote from Koonin's book:

"Of course, ID is malicious nonsense"

Bwahaha

--------------
After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM.

--GilDodgen

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,17:57   

The universe implodes as DeNudes opines on IQ, snatching an illustration from the Wikipedia article on IQ, uncredited.

That article also states:

"The American Psychological Association's report 'Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns' states that wherever it has been studied, children with high scores on tests of intelligence tend to learn more of what is taught in school than their lower-scoring peers. The correlation between IQ scores and grades is about .50. This means that the explained variance is 25%."

And

"The validity of IQ as a predictor of job performance is above zero for all work studied to date, but varies with the type of job and across different studies, ranging from 0.2 to 0.6. The correlations were higher when the unreliability of measurement methods were controlled for. While IQ is more strongly correlated with reasoning and less so with motor function, IQ-test scores predict performance ratings in all occupations."

And

"The American Psychological Association's 1995 report Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns stated that IQ scores accounted for (explained variance) about quarter of the social status variance and one-sixth of the income variance. Statistical controls for parental SES eliminate about a quarter of this predictive power. Psychometric intelligence appears as only one of a great many factors that influence social outcomes."

There are many caveats; academic performance, job performance and income are all complexly and multiply determined. IQ has a relationship with each of them, stronger in some instances than in others.

From this DeNudes concludes:
Quote
within a normal range - there is no systematic relationship between IQ and achievement.

*Facepalm*

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,20:20   

But will Gil conclude from this that there is not a strong correlation between daddy's career achievements and the achievements of his web potato child?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,21:23   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 07 2011,08:57)
The universe implodes as DeNudes opines on IQ, snatching an illustration from the Wikipedia article on IQ, uncredited.

That article also states:

"The American Psychological Association's report 'Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns' states that wherever it has been studied, children with high scores on tests of intelligence tend to learn more of what is taught in school than their lower-scoring peers. The correlation between IQ scores and grades is about .50. This means that the explained variance is 25%."

And

"The validity of IQ as a predictor of job performance is above zero for all work studied to date, but varies with the type of job and across different studies, ranging from 0.2 to 0.6. The correlations were higher when the unreliability of measurement methods were controlled for. While IQ is more strongly correlated with reasoning and less so with motor function, IQ-test scores predict performance ratings in all occupations."

And

"The American Psychological Association's 1995 report Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns stated that IQ scores accounted for (explained variance) about quarter of the social status variance and one-sixth of the income variance. Statistical controls for parental SES eliminate about a quarter of this predictive power. Psychometric intelligence appears as only one of a great many factors that influence social outcomes."

There are many caveats; academic performance, job performance and income are all complexly and multiply determined. IQ has a relationship with each of them, stronger in some instances than in others.

From this DeNudes concludes:
Quote
within a normal range - there is no systematic relationship between IQ and achievement.

*Facepalm*

Isn't the data skewed because a lot of the high IQ people were not interested in "achieving". I've met a lot of very smart people who were contented with a job that gave them enough resources to follow their own passions.

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,22:27   

Quote (MichaelJ @ Sep. 06 2011,21:23)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 07 2011,08:57)
The universe implodes as DeNudes opines on IQ, snatching an illustration from the Wikipedia article on IQ, uncredited.

That article also states:

"The American Psychological Association's report 'Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns' states that wherever it has been studied, children with high scores on tests of intelligence tend to learn more of what is taught in school than their lower-scoring peers. The correlation between IQ scores and grades is about .50. This means that the explained variance is 25%."

And

"The validity of IQ as a predictor of job performance is above zero for all work studied to date, but varies with the type of job and across different studies, ranging from 0.2 to 0.6. The correlations were higher when the unreliability of measurement methods were controlled for. While IQ is more strongly correlated with reasoning and less so with motor function, IQ-test scores predict performance ratings in all occupations."

And

"The American Psychological Association's 1995 report Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns stated that IQ scores accounted for (explained variance) about quarter of the social status variance and one-sixth of the income variance. Statistical controls for parental SES eliminate about a quarter of this predictive power. Psychometric intelligence appears as only one of a great many factors that influence social outcomes."

There are many caveats; academic performance, job performance and income are all complexly and multiply determined. IQ has a relationship with each of them, stronger in some instances than in others.

From this DeNudes concludes:
 
Quote
within a normal range - there is no systematic relationship between IQ and achievement.

*Facepalm*

Isn't the data skewed because a lot of the high IQ people were not interested in "achieving". I've met a lot of very smart people who were contented with a job that gave them enough resources to follow their own passions.

Isn't a job that gives
Quote
them enough resources to follow their own passions
already quite some achievement?

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,23:33   

all you white people want to do is work work work.  i'll lay here under this pawpaw tree and mind the fishing line tied to my toe whilst i take sips from pap's peartenin' juice

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1670
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,00:16   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 06 2011,12:24)
And here I though an expert was somebody what used to be a pert...

"X" = the mathematical symbol for the unknown.

"Spurt" = a drip under pressure.

So an expert is an unknown drip under pressure.

UD is full of experts.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1956
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,03:24   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 06 2011,20:27)
Quote
Isn't the data skewed because a lot of the high IQ people were not interested in "achieving". I've met a lot of very smart people who were contented with a job that gave them enough resources to follow their own passions.

Isn't a job that gives  
Quote
them enough resources to follow their own passions
already quite some achievement?



I recall vaguely a "zen*" story about a student asking a teacher about what a "miracle" was, the reply;

Sleep when you are tired, eat when you are hungry.



*I doubt it is associated with any actual Zen Buddhist teaching. More likely Nichiren Buddhism, since they are not (as) opposed to gratifying physical desires like fatigue and hunger rationalized under the teaching of "Expedient Means."

Edited by Dr.GH on Sep. 07 2011,01:25

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1670
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,06:47   

Quote (Raevmo @ Sep. 06 2011,17:48)
   
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 06 2011,14:03)
I don't know if this has been posted, but the new Koonin book is available free for download At Amazon. If you non't have a Kindle, you can download a free reader.

The News at UD is rather stupidly touting it as an ID friendly book.

Details here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng....freebie

That is putting is mildly. Quote from Koonin's book:

"Of course, ID is malicious nonsense"

Bwahaha


Reality is settling in:
 
Quote
Cannuckian Yankee 4.1 Incidentally, News, I’m now on the 2nd Chapter and it appears that it’s not exactly a “Darwin-free book.” Koonin appears to have more of a problem with the “Hardness” and dogmatism of the modern synthesis; thus the Preface: “Toward a Postmodern Synthesis of Evolutionary Biology.” He praises Darwin and those who further praise Darwin; even mentioning Dobzhansky’s famous “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution,” not once, but twice for emphasis.

One thing I can tell you about the book – it’s very well written and easy to follow. He’s not so much interested in the fine details as he is in the “big picture.” He states at the beginning that he first intended it to be a popular Tome like that of Hawking, but later revised it to be a bit more “scientific” but not technical.

They do get a little encouragement.  Koonin apparently thinks that abiogenesis is a 1 in 10^thousand or so  event.

Thanks for the publicity, Denyse!

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,07:28   

Koonin lists a number of abiogenesis scenarios and pronounces one of them as being a long shot.

The ID friendliness is diluted by the fact that his main point is we don't know how it happened.

But he does fall back to the multiverse as a way of overcoming odds.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,07:48   

Quote
One thing I can tell you about the book – it’s very well written and easy to follow. He’s not so much interested in the fine details as he is in the “big picture.” He states at the beginning that he first intended it to be a popular Tome like that of Hawking, but later revised it to be a bit more “scientific” but not technical.


This seems right to me. It's extremely well written, and unless there are boneheaded errors, it's going to be a classic on the order of The Selfish Gene.

It seems to hit every point that ever comes up in evolution debates, and except for OOL, it nails them down tight.

There's a -- perhaps unnecessary -- section on postmodernism, which quietly takes it down. Concluding that most big subjects in science, including physics, are incomplete and provisional, with overlapping "narratives," each of which reliably describes some phenomena, but which fail to be the grand unifying theory. There's an implied "so what."

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Fross



Posts: 71
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,09:34   

Quote (Raevmo @ Sep. 06 2011,17:48)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 06 2011,14:03)
I don't know if this has been posted, but the new Koonin book is available free for download At Amazon. If you non't have a Kindle, you can download a free reader.

The News at UD is rather stupidly touting it as an ID friendly book.

Details here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng....freebie

That is putting is mildly. Quote from Koonin's book:

"Of course, ID is malicious nonsense"

Bwahaha

Did  de News really just get excited over a new book on evolution because it knocks over her cartoon understanding of "Darwinism"?  

Too bad she doesn't read beyond the cover slips.   It seems most of her anti-Darwin rage was based on her understanding of the Selfish Gene book cover.  (according to her, that's the gene that makes us act selfishly and therefore evolve)

--------------
"For everything else, there's Mastertard"

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,09:45   

Quote
Did  de News really just get excited over a new book on evolution because it knocks over her cartoon understanding of "Darwinism"?


I have to say that after following the "debate" for several decades (starting with Gould's essays), there is little in the Koonin book that I've never heard of.

But it's a relentless pounding of creationism and ID, even though it never mentions them in the body of the book.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,10:08   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 06 2011,17:57)
There are many caveats; academic performance, job performance and income are all complexly and multiply determined. IQ has a relationship with each of them, stronger in some instances than in others.

From this DeNudes concludes:
   
Quote
within a normal range - there is no systematic relationship between IQ and achievement.

*Facepalm*

DeNews' proof that IQ does not correlate to achievement:  Look at all the blogs I have achieved!

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Amadan



Posts: 1255
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,15:49   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 07 2011,04:27)
Isn't a job that gives      
Quote
them enough resources to follow their own passions
already quite some achievement?

As often before, I return to Kliban, the master:



--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,15:57   

I like Kilban, new to me! Found this, seems relevant to ID.



--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2137
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,16:21   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 07 2011,13:57)
I like Kilban, new to me! Found this, seems relevant to ID.


I was just thinking ID is like that scene in Sleeper where Allen and Keaton are asked to check the cell structure of the clone. Hilarity (or at least a mild chuckle) ensues.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Amadan



Posts: 1255
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2011,17:15   

This one reminds me of everyone's favourite "journalist":



--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Tom Ames



Posts: 238
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2011,02:57   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Sep. 07 2011,08:08)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 06 2011,17:57)
There are many caveats; academic performance, job performance and income are all complexly and multiply determined. IQ has a relationship with each of them, stronger in some instances than in others.

From this DeNudes concludes:
   
Quote
within a normal range - there is no systematic relationship between IQ and achievement.

*Facepalm*

DeNews' proof that IQ does not correlate to achievement:  Look at all the blogs I have achieved!

She also could have cited the example of one-time PCID contributor Christopher Langan. (Hi Genie!)

--------------
-Tom Ames

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2011,03:50   

Thomas Cudworth criticises Venema/BioLogos:
 
Quote
Dennis Venema, the “heavy hitter” of Biologos when it comes to evolutionary theory — hands up, professors of evolutionary biology at Chicago, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Yale, Oxford, Cambridge, etc., if you have heard of Dennis Venema — has recently issued some remarks about ID in an interview.
[a lot of whining]
The moneybags who fund Biologos would be wiser to start a whole new theology/science project, one run by people who are much more cognizant of the very latest developments in biological science and the very latest developments in post-graduate-level theology. And, above all, one run by people who honor the basic academic principle that one should make sure one understands a theoretical position before one criticizes it.

Requirement to criticise ID: Being a professor of evolutionary biology at a top notch university who understands the "theoretical position" of ID, i.e. pretends that there is one.

Requirement to criticise evolutionary theory: Being able to type. Or, if that's too difficult, copy & paste.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2011,11:49   

CY:
 
Quote
I attended a Christian College (now University) that had a tendency to seek out professors who had some secular academic credentials. They ended up in one instance courting Tony Campolo in Sociology from the UofP. No friend of Darwin, though. So there is a way. Of course, I don’t really know if there aren’t any open Darwinists there, but perhaps some secret Darwinists.

I wouldn’t be surprised if practically every Christian college has it’s secret Darwinist, just as practically every secular college has it’s open Christian.

What’s really alarming though is the open Darwinist in a decidedly Evangelical college. This is the sort of practice that eventually causes a college to abandon it’s Christian roots.
Then the foundation is lost and it becomes another secular college like all the others that have gone before: Princeton (Presbyterian), Yale (Congregationalist), Dartmouth (Puritan), to name a few. Well funded colleges to be sure, but not exactly Christian anymore. Some discernment is in order.

You can't make stuff like that up.

"Secular academic credentials" in a prof, outrageous!

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2011,12:21   

Quote
I wouldn’t be surprised if practically every Christian college has it’s secret Darwinist, just as practically every secular college has it’s open Christian.


Its a mystery.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
JohnW



Posts: 2267
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2011,13:22   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 08 2011,10:21)
Quote
I wouldn’t be surprised if practically every Christian college has it’s secret Darwinist, just as practically every secular college has it’s open Christian.


Its a mystery.

I can't wait to see Expelled II: Bigger, Longer and Uncut.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2011,14:46   

News!

Quote
“Jumping genes” a mechanism of evolution?
September 8, 2011 Posted by News under Evolution, Genetics, News
No Comments

Definitely an idea worth pursuing, but what they must now demonstrate is permanent, functional improvements resulting from this process.


Clue for the clueless:  Look up Barbara McClintock.  It was pursued long ago, with fabulous results.  This is news to DeNews.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2011,18:32   

Lewontin!

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Henry J



Posts: 4080
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2011,22:24   

Quote
why-the-mathematical-beauty-we-find-in-the-cosmos

Beauty is in the reaction of the one observing it, it isn't intrinsic to the object being observed.

Or am I being picky?

Henry

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,01:43   

Quote
3.1
GilDodgen
September 9, 2011 at 9:53 pm
Quote
Is musical ability heritable? I’ve read that it does tend to run in families.


The mixing and matching of existing genetic information (which obviously occurs) is not what Darwinism attempts to explain. It attempts to explain the origin of completely novel, never-before-seen information.

As far as musical ability is concerned, I believe I got some of that, but it definitely doesn’t run in the family. It appears to have appeared out of nowhere in my family lineage.

The obvious question Gildo doesn't dare to ask? Why did he obviously not inherrit the intellectual capacity that run in the family? It appears to have vanished into nowhere.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,04:22   

Nick Matzke sounds just a tiny bit exasperated.
 
Quote
Even under an ID hypothesis, plant carnivory ought to have some function, right? It’s not exactly revolutionary to suggest that the function of *carnivory*, i.e. *eating things*, is probably to *get nutrients*. Gimme a freakin’ break here!

The only reason you guys are objecting to these basic points is that you just hate Darwin and somehow have got it in your head that the association between carnivorous plants and low-nutrient situations is some kind of evolutionary/Darwinist conspiracy. But that just ain’t so.

If you follow the discussion, that's exactly what's going on. In essence, they're arguing that there's no benefit for the plant in being carnivorous.  But no one asks why, if that were true, a supposedly intelligent designer would've made them carnivorous. Probably because god the designer works in mysterious ways.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
Patrick



Posts: 552
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,08:37   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 09 2011,19:32)
[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/why-the-mathematical-beauty-we-find-in-the-cosmos-is-an-objective-fact-which-points-to-a-d

esigner/comment-page-1/#comment-398797]Lewontin[/URL]!

If he weren't so sanctimonious, condescending, and willfully ignorant, one could almost feel some sympathy for kairosfocus.  He's so blinded by Leweontin's statement that "Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door." that he is actually incapable of understanding that the following sentences explain exactly why this is the case:  "The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen."

When you understand the scientific method, kairosfocus, you will be able to understand Lewontin.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,09:36   

Quote
When you understand the scientific method, kairosfocus, you will be able to understand Lewontin.


That's about as likely as KF ever coming to grip with the concept that quote mining is a form of lying.

ETA:

I wonder if Lewontin has been added to the quote mine project, and I wonder how UD would fare in an update of the quote mine sweepstakes.

http://blog.darwincentral.org/2006....of-dawn

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4365
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,10:16   

Quote
Probably because god the designer works in mysterious ways.


Yes, Gordon E Mullings of Montserrat is thankful that He made the world safe for the cowardly leeches that inhabit UD! :)

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,10:47   

Quote (JLT @ Sep. 10 2011,04:22)
Nick Matzke sounds just a tiny bit exasperated.
 
Quote
Even under an ID hypothesis, plant carnivory ought to have some function, right? It’s not exactly revolutionary to suggest that the function of *carnivory*, i.e. *eating things*, is probably to *get nutrients*. Gimme a freakin’ break here!

The only reason you guys are objecting to these basic points is that you just hate Darwin and somehow have got it in your head that the association between carnivorous plants and low-nutrient situations is some kind of evolutionary/Darwinist conspiracy. But that just ain’t so.

If you follow the discussion, that's exactly what's going on. In essence, they're arguing that there's no benefit for the plant in being carnivorous.  But no one asks why, if that were true, a supposedly intelligent designer would've made them carnivorous. Probably because god the designer works in mysterious ways.

If The Fall could make those nice plant-eating T-rexes turn into carnivorous beasts, then surely the plants had to join them.

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,11:05   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 10 2011,09:36)
Quote
When you understand the scientific method, kairosfocus, you will be able to understand Lewontin.


That's about as likely as KF ever coming to grip with the concept that quote mining is a form of lying.

ETA:

I wonder if Lewontin has been added to the quote mine project, and I wonder how UD would fare in an update of the quote mine sweepstakes.

http://blog.darwincentral.org/2006.......of-dawn

I don't suppose anybody has those quotes as a CSV/XML document or similar?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,11:39   

I have the whole thing in an Access database, including the program I used to crawl the internet and gather the statistics.

But the quotes are in a table that could be exported.

Edit:

What I actually have is snippets from the quote mine project. Just enough of the original quote to make a reliable Google search.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,12:30   

Great! Will PM you.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,22:40   

Hey Denyse, did you ever wonder why pandasthumb.org has been named after the pandas's thumb?
Somebody may suggest some reading to her that even on her computer is only one click away: Michel Laurin, Marc Girondot and Armand de Ricqlès (2000): Early tetrapod evolution.

ETA: links corrected

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,23:26   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 11 2011,04:40)
Hey Denyse, did you ever wonder why pandasthumb.org has been named after the pandas's thumb?
Somebody may suggest some reading to her that even on her computer is only one click away: Michel Laurin, Marc Girondot and Armand de Ricqlès (2000): Early tetrapod evolution.

ETA: links corrected

DO'L:
Quote
The five-fingered limb is much easier to subtract from than add to. That’s the fundamental problem with Darwinian evolution. There is an original law, probably based on design.


Or maybe there's common descent.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2011,23:55   

Oh, goody, I was waiting for this.
Gods iPod
 
Quote
ID proponents SHOULD be “truthers”, because both have come to their conclusions from following the evidence, not popular, or an expert’s, opinion.

Please stop the perforative use of the term “conspiracy theorist”. Every Law Enforcement Officer is a conspiracy theorist, and they arrest people for conspiracy often.

Some truthers might be a bit insane, but the one’s leading the movement are mostly scientists. www.ae911truth.org

Come on, UD, only one truther? There must be more!

BTW, isn't it great that he tries to make the truthers seem reasonable by claiming that they're all scientists?
Paragwinn:
 
Quote
Actually, ae911truth.org is led by architects and engineers, not scientists.

I LOL'ed.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
Patrick



Posts: 552
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,10:44   

DrBot responds to Joseph and shows UD what reality looks like:
Quote
Quote
According to the current theory of evolution ALL genetic changes are accidents/ mistakes/ errors.

I’m not aware of anything in evolutionary theory that says that the goal of reproduction is an exact copy. What is required for evolution to happen is actually reproduction with variance, so genetic changes serve a purpose – i.e. they are not accidents, mistakes or errors in the sense that they are unintended – but they are all random with respect to fitness.

There is an important difference between randomly generated, but necessary, variety and just unwanted errors.

Evolution depends on variety so by definition variety in its self is not an error, or to put it another way – you don’t understand evolutionary theory.

That's gonna leave a mark.

(Emphasis mine.)

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,11:45   

Joseph responds by channeling a 6 year old:

Quote
So to put it another way you don’t understand evolutionary theory and you do not understand ID.


--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,12:00   

Perhaps Joe can point to a specific example of a genomic change that was not the result of a stochastic process.

An example not from genetic engineering by humans.

I'm particularly interested in how a designer knows in advance the results of a large change.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,13:11   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 11 2011,12:00)
Perhaps Joe can point to a specific example of a genomic change that was not the result of a stochastic process.

He already did.







On his blog.







You are just too stupid to understand.







Assface.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,14:16   

Well, UD has managed to establish one truth. I they malign and libel a major player, they will get more than two posts in response.

Watch out when they figure this out.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
paragwinn



Posts: 400
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,14:21   

Speaking of gaming,, StephenB's "Jump To Conclusions" armor is pierced by Elizabeth's "Perform Real Investigative Work" battle-axe in UDville:

StephenB
Quote
So you agree, in principle, that one can legitimately draw an inference to design by ruling out natural causes?

Elizabeth
Quote
No, I think you can legitimately infer design by testing design hypotheses.


--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
paragwinn



Posts: 400
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,14:56   

bornagain77 has identified a tool in the Darwinist Conspiracy To Supress Evidence Regarding The Cambrian Explosion: Fossil Collectors!
ba77  
Quote
David, perhaps it was a case of ‘cognitive dissonance’ on [Charles Doolittle] Walcott’s part, but none-the-less, despite the level to which Walcott suppressed that which was so surprising to him that it caused him to collect 60,000 specimens, it is certainly a clear example of a inherent materialistic bias for which we have all paid a severe price in the setting back science for several decades

David W. Gibson  
Quote
Not at all. Walcott was a collector. He squirreled away FAR more specimens than that; he collected fossils of any and all kinds from everywhere he went. He was not ‘cognitively dissonent’, any more than any other collector. He did not “suppress” anything, he simply collected it. Collectors do that.

Evidently, museum drawers are the Vanishing Cabinets of Conspiratorial Magic.

bracketted name clarification mine.

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,15:23   

Stupid man should have shredded the evidence. Conspirators never learn.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,21:59   

If Joseph would only explore the sites he links to he would know that nature EDUCATION's Scitable does not support his views at all.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2011,23:24   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 11 2011,21:59)
If Joseph would only explore the sites he links to he would know that nature EDUCATION's Scitable does not support his views at all.

But that's true of everything posted on UD unless it comes from a creationist website.

What you have to understand is the the authors hide their ID sympathies in Bible Code.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3321
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,07:33   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 11 2011,23:24)
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 11 2011,21:59)
If Joseph would only explore the sites he links to he would know that nature EDUCATION's Scitable does not support his views at all.

But that's true of everything posted on UD unless it comes from a creationist website.

What you have to understand is the the authors hide their ID sympathies in Bible Code.

No.  Those websites DO support Joe's views on ID.

They just don't realize it yet.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,08:03   



--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,10:56   

Recent research reveals that if I type a brand name into a post anywhere on the net, an ad for than brand will show up on UD the next time I visit, or soon thereafter.

Sony, iPod, Nikon, testing...

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3321
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,11:13   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,10:56)
Recent research reveals that if I type a brand name into a post anywhere on the net, an ad for than brand will show up on UD the next time I visit, or soon thereafter.

Sony, iPod, Nikon, testing...

That's everywhere now.  The same cookies that maintain your login also tracks your posting habits.

I've been researching mattresses and every website with ads now has mattress ads.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,12:39   

Get rich quick:

Over at UD there's a $1000 prize (judges not named) for "anyone who is able to demonstrate that the design of a living thing by an intelligent agent necessarily requires a supernatural act."

No prize is being offered for anyone who can calculate the CSI of any living organism.

No prize is being offered for anyone who can cite an instance of design being implemented, other than by humans. No prize for what. No prize for when, No prize for how.

No prize is being offered for explaining where or how a finite (non-supernatural) designer stores the 10^500 bits of information regarding fitness landscapes and coding sequences that would be required to design without using some form of GA. (Assuming, of course, that fitness landscapes really are as rugged as claimed by ID advocates.)

Linky

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1365
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,12:39   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 12 2011,06:13)
   
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,10:56)
Recent research reveals that if I type a brand name into a post anywhere on the net, an ad for than brand will show up on UD the next time I visit, or soon thereafter.

Sony, iPod, Nikon, testing...

That's everywhere now.  The same cookies that maintain your login also tracks your posting habits.

I've been researching mattresses and every website with ads now has mattress ads.

That doesn't explain why I keep getting an ad for a muslim bride, though, does it, as I've never researched this topic? Though the concept does have a certain novelty appeal!

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,13:04   

Quote
That doesn't explain why I keep getting an ad for a muslim bride


That would be the mind reading component, still in Beta.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
JohnW



Posts: 2267
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,13:13   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 12 2011,09:13)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,10:56)
Recent research reveals that if I type a brand name into a post anywhere on the net, an ad for than brand will show up on UD the next time I visit, or soon thereafter.

Sony, iPod, Nikon, testing...

That's everywhere now.  The same cookies that maintain your login also tracks your posting habits.

I've been researching mattresses and every website with ads now has mattress ads.

Gordon Gobshite must be seeing some interesting ads, after all those mis-spelled (ahem) searches.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Henry J



Posts: 4080
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,13:36   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 12 2011,10:13)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,10:56)
Recent research reveals that if I type a brand name into a post anywhere on the net, an ad for than brand will show up on UD the next time I visit, or soon thereafter.

Sony, iPod, Nikon, testing...

That's everywhere now.  The same cookies that maintain your login also tracks your posting habits.

I've been researching mattresses and every website with ads now has mattress ads.

For that kind of problem, the appropriate strategy is to sleep on it.

  
paragwinn



Posts: 400
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,13:41   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 12 2011,11:36)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 12 2011,10:13)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,10:56)
Recent research reveals that if I type a brand name into a post anywhere on the net, an ad for than brand will show up on UD the next time I visit, or soon thereafter.

Sony, iPod, Nikon, testing...

That's everywhere now.  The same cookies that maintain your login also tracks your posting habits.

I've been researching mattresses and every website with ads now has mattress ads.

For that kind of problem, the appropriate strategy is to sleep on it.

And then spring into action!

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,13:50   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,12:39)
Get rich quick:

Over at UD there's a $1000 prize (judges not named) for "anyone who is able to demonstrate that the design of a living thing by an intelligent agent necessarily requires a supernatural act."

No prize is being offered for anyone who can calculate the CSI of any living organism.

No prize is being offered for anyone who can cite an instance of design being implemented, other than by humans. No prize for what. No prize for when, No prize for how.

No prize is being offered for explaining where or how a finite (non-supernatural) designer stores the 10^500 bits of information regarding fitness landscapes and coding sequences that would be required to design without using some form of GA. (Assuming, of course, that fitness landscapes really are as rugged as claimed by ID advocates.)

Linky

POTW!

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,14:06   

I'm interested in how gil and ba77 will approach this, since they assume the designer is god. They obviously have no problem with infinite resources.

I once argued with gpuccio that design is impossible without evolution, because no finite resource can predict protein folding in less time than folding itself.

He asserted there had to be some structure to folding that would provide a shortcut.

In the absence of evidence I doubt there will be a look up table for functional sequences that is smaller than the number of particles in the universe

That, of course, ignores the minor matter of regulation, and the ecological problems encountered and requiring adaptation.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,14:22   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,14:06)
I'm interested in how gil and ba77 will approach this, since they assume the designer is god. They obviously have no problem with infinite resources.
.

I'd be more interested in StephenB's attempt. Isn't the main part of his schtick that methodological naturalism, by limiting itself to natural explanations, is attempting to discriminate against ID?  By his reasoning, supernatural causation is *REQUIRED* in design theory.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,14:26   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 12 2011,14:22)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,14:06)
I'm interested in how gil and ba77 will approach this, since they assume the designer is god. They obviously have no problem with infinite resources.
.

I'd be more interested in StephenB's attempt. Isn't the main part of his schtick that methodological naturalism, by limiting itself to natural explanations, is attempting to discriminate against ID?  By his reasoning, supernatural causation is *REQUIRED* in design theory.

The big tent does not cover any foolishly consistent hobgoblins.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,15:02   

DrBot opines:
 
Quote
As a general comment though, this looks like a challenge to ID more than it is to evolutionary scientists. I doubt any evo biologists would have an issue with the idea of an intelligent agent being able to design a living thing. Perhaps a more pertinent and direct challenge would be to show that supernatural intervention is not required to create life – when no material intelligent agent already exists – otherwise it is just inviting infinite regress (is a supernatural event required to produce the non supernatural intelligence that designed the life or do we invoke another material designer as the designer of the designer)


This requires a bit of head spinning. What kind of non-supernatural entity designs the first life?

If none is required, how is this different from naturalism? If it is required, the contest is won.

ETA:

The loudspeaker in the ceiling just deleted most of DrBot's post, specifically the part I quoted above.

Linky

ETA moar:

DrBot's entire post, before being censored by Barry:

Quote
Barry, thanks for the reply, I think some things still need clarification. For a start, I asked about non material minds and in reply you said:
Quote

Therefore, I am going to make a bold assumption for the sake of argument. Let us assume for the sake of argument that intelligent agents do NOT have free will, i.e., that the tertium quid does not exist. Let us assume instead, for the sake of argument, that the cause of all activity of all intelligent agents can be reduced to physical causes.

You responded with a statement about free will where you assume that it cannot exist in systems which operate according to the laws of physics. I don't have a problem with the idea that a material mind has free will, or conversely I can see that a non-material mind could equally lack free will. Free will in this context is not related to the issue of how 'mind' is defined.

Would the simplest thing be to state, as a premise for the competition, that a mind, intentionality and consciousness can all be produced by matter?

As a general comment though, this looks like a challenge to ID more than it is to evolutionary scientists. I doubt any evo biologists would have an issue with the idea of an intelligent agent being able to design a living thing. Perhaps a more pertinent and direct challenge would be to show that supernatural intervention is not required to create life - when no material intelligent agent already exists - otherwise it is just inviting infinite regress (is a supernatural event required to produce the non supernatural intelligence that designed the life or do we invoke another material designer as the designer of the designer)

This is the root question isn't it - how was life created, not how or in what way does it evolve once it exists.

I won't take up the challenge because I don't think that a supernatural act is required to produce life, most scientists I know would probably agree, but I look forward to seeing some of the ID supporters taking it up, and thanks for issuing the challenge (I mean that sincerely)


--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,15:28   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,15:02)
DrBot opines:
 
Quote
As a general comment though, this looks like a challenge to ID more than it is to evolutionary scientists. I doubt any evo biologists would have an issue with the idea of an intelligent agent being able to design a living thing. Perhaps a more pertinent and direct challenge would be to show that supernatural intervention is not required to create life – when no material intelligent agent already exists – otherwise it is just inviting infinite regress (is a supernatural event required to produce the non supernatural intelligence that designed the life or do we invoke another material designer as the designer of the designer)


This requires a bit of head spinning. What kind of non-supernatural entity designs the first life?

If none is required, how is this different from naturalism? If it is required, the contest is won.

ETA:

The loudspeaker in the ceiling just deleted most of DrBot's post, specifically the part I quoted above.

Linky

Hardly surprising.  Barry seems to construct elaborate rhetorical traps in his mind and can't seem to handle it when his presumed opponent deviates from the script Barry so helpfully wrote for him/her.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,15:46   

It does seem natural that Barry would be a bit twitchy about the question of whether consciousness exists. that would seem to hit too close to home.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,17:31   

No surprisingly, KF declares victory.

In doing so he explains why the lawyer Barry deleted DrBot's post.

The deleted post pointed out the infinite regress of designers, which cannot be resolved without invoking a supernatural first designer.

Either that or conceding that a designer is not necessary.

So not only is Barry Arrington a dishonest scum for deleting an embarrassing post, but he lied about his reason.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,19:51   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 12 2011,13:39)
Get rich quick:

Over at UD there's a $1000 prize (judges not named) for "anyone who is able to demonstrate that the design of a living thing by an intelligent agent necessarily requires a supernatural act."

No prize is being offered for anyone who can calculate the CSI of any living organism.

No prize is being offered for anyone who can cite an instance of design being implemented, other than by humans. No prize for what. No prize for when, No prize for how.

No prize is being offered for explaining where or how a finite (non-supernatural) designer stores the 10^500 bits of information regarding fitness landscapes and coding sequences that would be required to design without using some form of GA. (Assuming, of course, that fitness landscapes really are as rugged as claimed by ID advocates.)

Linky

Is "Cosmological ID" (e.g. arguments vis fine tuning, cosmological origins, and the necessity of an uncreated creator, etc.) still considered ID at UD?

If so, I'd be interested in Barry's description of a "natural" designer capable of, say, intelligently fine tuning cosmological constants to attain a desired universe.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2011,20:11   

KF gave the game away. Barry considers humans to be non supernatural designers capable of designing life from scratch. KF just now said that Venter's work is "proof of concept."

Someone should require him to make that explicit, because lots of UDers doubt that.

If so, the solution to origin of life is solved, in concept. And  the supernaturalists at UD can eat Barry's dirt.

Of course this involves an infinite regress, but if you mention that, Barry will delete your post.

Someone should sue UD for the prize money and force them to declare under oath that the designer isn't god.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,08:39   

KF would never poison the well:

Quote
Spell this: S-A-U-L A-L-I-N-S-K-Y distortion and demonisation of design thought .


--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,08:43   

Quote
See those references to scriptures and to issues on interpretation thereof?

See the persistent unresponsiveness to correction?

Utterly revealing.

GEM of TKI



Good to know that KF will be jumping all over any future poster on UD that dares to mention religion or atheism.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
sparc



Posts: 1712
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,11:43   

As if Jonathan M's post isn't ludicrous enough Granville Sewell who published a more or less identical paper at least three times thinks he has to add the following:
Quote
Jonathan,

Good post. I like the comments “to have written 800 papers is regarded as something to boast about rather than being shameful” and “with far fewer papers being published, reviewers, grant committees and promotion committees might be able to read the papers, not just count them.”


--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,12:05   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 13 2011,11:43)
As if Jonathan M's post isn't ludicrous enough Granville Sewell who published a more or less identical paper at least three times thinks he has to add the following:  
Quote
Jonathan,

Good post. I like the comments “to have written 800 papers is regarded as something to boast about rather than being shameful” and “with far fewer papers being published, reviewers, grant committees and promotion committees might be able to read the papers, not just count them.”

Quote
led to a situation where any paper, however bad, can now be printed in a journal that claims to be peer-reviewed.


He is referring to bio-complexity, isn't he?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,14:00   

Stupid UD News Headline, issue 138,476:
Quote
Philosophers deride neuroscience attempts to attack free will


Of course, no derision to be seen.  Only D'Oh!-leary thinks that way.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,14:32   

DeNews asks a question:  
Quote
Memo to CNN: After the Ardi and Ida pfffft’s, what religion do we join, so we can not believe in your latest babe, Sediba?


Nothing wrong with Ardi as a fossil, only certain IDiots who don't realize how many design events are required for homonins - they just engage in denial.  Ida is an example of a sparse record, of course there is going to be different ideas on where it is in the tree of life.  

All D'Oh-leary can do is:

Paper 1 says X about evolution, paper 2 says Y, so paper X is WRONG, therefore evolution is wrong, therefore DEZIGN!!!!11!

What you should do is get your science news from journal articles.  Of course if you tried...

 
Quote

Wanda: [after Otto breaks in on Wanda and Archie in Archie's flat and hangs him out the window] I was dealing with something delicate, Otto. I'm setting up a guy who's incredibly important to us, who's going to tell me where the loot is and if they're going to come and arrest you. And you come loping in like Rambo without a jockstrap and you dangle him out a fifth-floor window. Now, was that smart? Was it shrewd? Was it good tactics? Or was it stupid?

Otto West: Don't call me stupid.

Wanda: Oh, right! To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people! I've known sheep that could outwit you. I've worn dresses with higher IQs. But you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?

Otto West: Apes don't read philosophy.

Wanda: Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it. Now let me correct you on a couple of things, OK? Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself." And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up.


Remember Densy's blunder in saying that a circular phylogenetic tree diagram was not a tree?

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,14:59   

DeNews certainly can't be accused of a "Interested in the Truth"-er:

Quote
Ties with anti-Semitic Troother show that the Darwin lobby is failing


Of course, no evidence the guy is antisemitic.  She could go further and point out that the guy is really big on conspiracies, not just 9-11.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,15:13   

D'oh-neese is an evolved species of ichneumon - she paralyzes her victims with inane claims and plants embroys of asinine ideas that will consume the victim's mind.

Really. Just stop reading her before you become nothing but a barely conscious shell as her vile spawn eats your mind from the inside out.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,15:44   

Quote
Of course, no evidence the guy is antisemitic.


He has some rather strong associations in the conspiracy world with people who blame Israel for 9/11.

Just looking briefly at the truther sewer, he might have disassociated himself from that. Or not. It's difficult to tell who's in and who's out. What a mess.

I have a personal reason for thinking the Trade Center theorists are full of shit. They talk about the fire not being hot enough.

I live a few blocks from a church that burned a few years ago. It had a frame made of steel I-beams which bent like cooked spaghetti in the fire. There was no additional fuel. It was just a routine fire.



--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
JohnW



Posts: 2267
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,16:08   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 13 2011,13:44)
Quote
Of course, no evidence the guy is antisemitic.


He has some rather strong associations in the conspiracy world with people who blame Israel for 9/11.

Just looking briefly at the truther sewer, he might have disassociated himself from that. Or not. It's difficult to tell who's in and who's out. What a mess.

I have a personal reason for thinking the Trade Center theorists are full of shit. They talk about the fire not being hot enough.

I live a few blocks from a church that burned a few years ago. It had a frame made of steel I-beams which bent like cooked spaghetti in the fire. There was no additional fuel. It was just a routine fire.


Well, obviously the CIA/Illuminati/Elders of Zion/Manchester United FC planted incendiary explosives around the beams when the place was built, so they could burn it down years later to discredit the conspiracy theories they knew would arise after they burned down the WTC.  

It's the only logical explanation.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Kristine



Posts: 3046
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,16:36   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 13 2011,15:44)
Quote
Of course, no evidence the guy is antisemitic.


He has some rather strong associations in the conspiracy world with people who blame Israel for 9/11.

Just looking briefly at the truther sewer, he might have disassociated himself from that. Or not. It's difficult to tell who's in and who's out. What a mess.

I have a personal reason for thinking the Trade Center theorists are full of shit. They talk about the fire not being hot enough.

I live a few blocks from a church that burned a few years ago. It had a frame made of steel I-beams which bent like cooked spaghetti in the fire. There was no additional fuel. It was just a routine fire.


Oh, please don't tell me that anyone besides Rosie O'Donnell is repeating that crap! And geez, doesn't Denyse know that skeptic/atheist/"Darwinist" Michael Shermer has been one of the most outspoken voices against 9-11 conspiracies? (Of course not.)

This stuff depresses me as much as creationism does. Oh, speaking of which do you know that the Great Depression was planned?  ;)  (From a local cable access show in the 1990s. Blarg! )

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,16:38   

I swore I'd never go back there, but like a moth ...

DrREC wrote:  
Quote
Copying Mussorgsky’s Gates of Kiev, and throwing in an unplayed (Ventner’s addition doesn’t code, or do anything) stanza doesn’t make me a composter.


No, but participating in the comment thread at UD sure does!

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,17:05   

Lewontin!

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,17:10   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 13 2011,15:44)
 
Quote
Of course, no evidence the guy is antisemitic.


He has some rather strong associations in the conspiracy world with people who blame Israel for 9/11.


Unless the JFK assassination and Paul Wellstone plane crash are also widely averred to be Jewish conspiracies, I think not.  Fetzer is a "OUR government did it" sort of fellow.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,17:27   

Quote
Lifton seems to be upset that I have endorsed a book, STRANGER THAN FICTION, which traces the history of Zionism from the late 1800s to the present day and advances evidence, not only of the history of terrorism practiced by those who wanted to create the State of Israel, but of Israeli involvement in the events of 9/11. I had independently concluded Israel was involved in 9/11 before I discovered this book. I must admit that I had no clear concept of Zionism until relatively recently, when I began inviting experts on the subject onto my radio program, "The Real Deal", including Stephen Lendman (13 March 2010), Barry Chamish (30 March 2010), and Elias Davidsson (10 July 2010).


http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.p....c=16026

This stuff is depressingly easy to find.


ETA:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/article....4A.html

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 889
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,19:52   

I happen to work with a bunch of journalists. On the whole they are quite picky about getting things right. Such as avoiding typos in headlines.

Apparently it is not a universal trait.

--------------
To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today. - Isaac Asimov

"Grow up, assface" - Joe G., grown up ID spokesperson, Sandwalk, April 2014

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,21:43   

Quote (Ptaylor @ Sep. 13 2011,19:52)
I happen to work with a bunch of journalists. On the whole they are quite picky about getting things right. Such as avoiding typos in headlines.

Apparently it is not a universal trait.

But if DeNews were really picky about getting things right, she'd never post anything, and then where would we be?

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,21:46   

Quote
But if DeNews were really picky about getting things right, she'd never post anything, and then where would we be?


Hanging out in train station pubs with Louis, obviously.

Been there, done that.

  
Henry J



Posts: 4080
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,22:24   

Quote
I swore I'd never go back there, but like a moth ...

A moth attracted to the sweater?

  
Henry J



Posts: 4080
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2011,22:47   

Quote (noncarborundum @ Sep. 13 2011,20:43)
But if DeNews were really picky about getting things right, she'd never post anything, and then where would we be?

In a lab doing science?

  
paragwinn



Posts: 400
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,01:54   

Gildo calls out the "Darwinists":
Quote
The claim has been made that ID proponents are just “creationists in cheap tuxedos.”
[snip]

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Therefore, I’ll make the claim that Darwinists are atheists in expensive tuxedos.


bolding mine

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,02:21   

Didn't someone at UD just bet a thousand dollars that ID didn't require god?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
k.e..



Posts: 2926
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,06:52   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 13 2011,20:05)
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 13 2011,11:43)
As if Jonathan M's post isn't ludicrous enough Granville Sewell who published a more or less identical paper at least three times thinks he has to add the following:  
Quote
Jonathan,

Good post. I like the comments “to have written 800 papers is regarded as something to boast about rather than being shameful” and “with far fewer papers being published, reviewers, grant committees and promotion committees might be able to read the papers, not just count them.”

Quote
led to a situation where any paper, however bad, can now be printed in a journal that claims to be peer-reviewed.


He is referring to bio-complexity, isn't he?

Yep objectivism bolted to a post modernist fact free truthiness.

Or if you like thruth free factlessness.

Where no test that survives the scientific principle survives creationist/ID mendaciousness.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Woodbine



Posts: 788
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,07:06   

Dembski has calved more 'journals' than papers, near enough.

  
k.e..



Posts: 2926
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,07:21   

Quote (paragwinn @ Sep. 14 2011,09:54)
Gildo calls out the "Darwinists":  
Quote
The claim has been made that ID proponents are just “creationists in cheap tuxedos.”
[snip]

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Therefore, I’ll make the claim that Darwinists are atheists in expensive tuxedos.


bolding mine

So Gildo's complaint is we have higher priced tailors?

They can only afford to shop at The Good Samaritans?

Creationists are driven by out of date fashions?


Is poor dress sense correlated to low IQ and earnings capacity?


Oh well charity begins at home, so that unibrow creationist whatever his name is could hold an auction so Gildo can get a decent jacket.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
k.e..



Posts: 2926
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,07:25   

Quote (Woodbine @ Sep. 14 2011,15:06)
Dembski has calved more 'journals' than papers, near enough.

Don't know about that

...... but he has certainly spawned more acronyms than TV crime writers

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,10:23   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 13 2011,17:27)
Quote
Lifton seems to be upset that I have endorsed a book, STRANGER THAN FICTION, which traces the history of Zionism from the late 1800s to the present day and advances evidence, not only of the history of terrorism practiced by those who wanted to create the State of Israel, but of Israeli involvement in the events of 9/11. I had independently concluded Israel was involved in 9/11 before I discovered this book. I must admit that I had no clear concept of Zionism until relatively recently, when I began inviting experts on the subject onto my radio program, "The Real Deal", including Stephen Lendman (13 March 2010), Barry Chamish (30 March 2010), and Elias Davidsson (10 July 2010).


http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.p....c=16026

This stuff is depressingly easy to find.


ETA:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/article....4A.html


That is definitive!  Ah well, it should get some mention in the wikipedia article on him, at least.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,10:31   

I'm afraid it dominates the Wiki article on Fetzer. It defines his Wiki image.

In fact there's nothing else on the wiki page except an appeal for cleanup.

I know lots of people who criticize Israel, but none that think Israel had anything to do with 9/11. Except for the obvious fact that our support for Israel pisses off the Arabs.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,11:23   

Quote
Except for the obvious fact that our support for Israel pisses off the Arabs.


I would call wrong on that one. Israel support doesn't piss off Arabs. It pisses off Muslims. There is quite a few Arabs that happen to be Jews as well.

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,11:27   

Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 14 2011,11:23)
Quote
Except for the obvious fact that our support for Israel pisses off the Arabs.


I would call wrong on that one. Israel support doesn't piss off Arabs. It pisses off Muslims. There is quite a few Arabs that happen to be Jews as well.

Interesting. I stand corrected.

Would many Jewish Arabs be living in the countries that seem to be supporting militant Muslims? Could you speculate on the percentage or the raw numbers?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3321
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,11:37   

I don't often go to UD.  Raw idiocy is just too much these days.  But I had a question that only UD could answer (no I didn't find an answer).

But this on the home page struck me as... curious.

Quote
Do intelligent desgn theorists need the supernatural – just to leave room for a little mystery in life?
http://www.uncommondescent.com/origin-of-life/do-intelligent-deign-theorists-need-the-supernatural-just-to-leave-room-for-a-little-myste
ry-in-life/

Perhaps intelligence should use a little more intelligent design.

Does anyone have contact information for O'Leary?  Surprisingly, there is no way to contact anyone via the UD website.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,12:04   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 14 2011,10:31)
I'm afraid it dominates the Wiki article on Fetzer. It defines his Wiki image.

In fact there's nothing else on the wiki page except an appeal for cleanup.

I know lots of people who criticize Israel, but none that think Israel had anything to do with 9/11. Except for the obvious fact that our support for Israel pisses off the Arabs.

A text search of the wikipedia Fetzer article:

Israel 0 mentions
Jew 0 mentions
semitic 0 mentions

That is what I was going by, plus a brief google search and reading some of the radio transcripts, but as we have seen my goggle-fu is weak..

The heading of the wikipedia article notes that it is extensively autobiographical, so it is no doubt problematic in more than one way.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1238
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,12:05   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 14 2011,11:27)
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 14 2011,11:23)
Quote
Except for the obvious fact that our support for Israel pisses off the Arabs.


I would call wrong on that one. Israel support doesn't piss off Arabs. It pisses off Muslims. There is quite a few Arabs that happen to be Jews as well.

Interesting. I stand corrected.

Would many Jewish Arabs be living in the countries that seem to be supporting militant Muslims? Could you speculate on the percentage or the raw numbers?

Actually, there are many Arabic Christians in the region.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1365
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,12:06   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,06:37)
I don't often go to UD.  Raw idiocy is just too much these days.  But I had a question that only UD could answer (no I didn't find an answer).

But this on the home page struck me as... curious.

 
Quote
Do intelligent desgn theorists need the supernatural – just to leave room for a little mystery in life?
http://www.uncommondescent.com/origin-of-life/do-intelligent-deign-theorists-need-the-supernatural-just-to-leave-room-for-a-little-myste



ry-in-life/

Perhaps intelligence should use a little more intelligent design.

Does anyone have contact information for O'Leary?  Surprisingly, there is no way to contact anyone via the UD website.

Hope you're not planning any cyber stalking!

Search for "Post Darwinist" and check her profile where she lists a contact email.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,12:11   

I spend as little intellectual effort on politics as possible, so my opinions are not worth much.

My understanding is that the Arabs view Israel the way Americans might view a Texas or California that seceded and  affiliated with Cuba or Venezuela.

If Muslims in Pakistan hate Israel it is probably in sympathy with the Arab nations.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3321
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,16:32   

Quote (Alan Fox @ Sep. 14 2011,12:06)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,06:37)
I don't often go to UD.  Raw idiocy is just too much these days.  But I had a question that only UD could answer (no I didn't find an answer).

But this on the home page struck me as... curious.

   
Quote
Do intelligent desgn theorists need the supernatural – just to leave room for a little mystery in life?
http://www.uncommondescent.com/origin-of-life/do-intelligent-deign-theorists-need-the-supernatural-just-to-leave-room-for-a-little-myste




ry-in-life/

Perhaps intelligence should use a little more intelligent design.

Does anyone have contact information for O'Leary?  Surprisingly, there is no way to contact anyone via the UD website.

Hope you're not planning any cyber stalking!

Search for "Post Darwinist" and check her profile where she lists a contact email.

Ask a question, get a typical non-answer.  Thanks, Useless.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Amadan



Posts: 1255
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,16:53   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 13 2011,21:44)
 
Quote
Of course, no evidence the guy is antisemitic.


He has some rather strong associations in the conspiracy world with people who blame Israel for 9/11.

Just looking briefly at the truther sewer, he might have disassociated himself from that. Or not. It's difficult to tell who's in and who's out. What a mess.

I have a personal reason for thinking the Trade Center theorists are full of shit. They talk about the fire not being hot enough.

I live a few blocks from a church that burned a few years ago. It had a frame made of steel I-beams which bent like cooked spaghetti in the fire. There was no additional fuel. It was just a routine fire.


Hmmm. Where exactly were you when this fire took place?

Were there any reports of hemorrhagic fevers in the locality?

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Glen Davidson



Posts: 752
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,16:57   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,16:32)
Quote (Alan Fox @ Sep. 14 2011,12:06)
 
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,06:37)
I don't often go to UD.  Raw idiocy is just too much these days.  But I had a question that only UD could answer (no I didn't find an answer).

But this on the home page struck me as... curious.

     
Quote
Do intelligent desgn theorists need the supernatural – just to leave room for a little mystery in life?
http://www.uncommondescent.com/origin-of-life/do-intelligent-deign-theorists-need-the-supernatural-just-to-leave-room-for-a-little-myste






ry-in-life/

Perhaps intelligence should use a little more intelligent design.

Does anyone have contact information for O'Leary?  Surprisingly, there is no way to contact anyone via the UD website.

Hope you're not planning any cyber stalking!

Search for "Post Darwinist" and check her profile where she lists a contact email.

Ask a question, get a typical non-answer.  Thanks, Useless.

denyseoleary@gmail.com

It was at her blog site.  I can only assume that it's current, but you'll have to find out.  I have no intention to try to contact her.

Glen Davidson

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,17:02   

Quote
Hmmm. Where exactly were you when this fire took place?


Home in bed with the covers over my head. Nobody saw me and you can't prove it. Besides, it was Christmas eve. Maybe Santa did it.

Seriously, the old building was kind of tacky in a 1960s sort of way. The new building is much nicer. Not that that means anything. It is kind of curious that they had no smoke detector.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3321
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,17:21   

Quote (Glen Davidson @ Sep. 14 2011,16:57)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,16:32)
 
Quote (Alan Fox @ Sep. 14 2011,12:06)
 
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,06:37)
I don't often go to UD.  Raw idiocy is just too much these days.  But I had a question that only UD could answer (no I didn't find an answer).

But this on the home page struck me as... curious.

     
Quote
Do intelligent desgn theorists need the supernatural – just to leave room for a little mystery in life?
http://www.uncommondescent.com/origin-of-life/do-intelligent-deign-theorists-need-the-supernatural-just-to-leave-room-for-a-little-myste







ry-in-life/

Perhaps intelligence should use a little more intelligent design.

Does anyone have contact information for O'Leary?  Surprisingly, there is no way to contact anyone via the UD website.

Hope you're not planning any cyber stalking!

Search for "Post Darwinist" and check her profile where she lists a contact email.

Ask a question, get a typical non-answer.  Thanks, Useless.

denyseoleary@gmail.com

It was at her blog site.  I can only assume that it's current, but you'll have to find out.  I have no intention to try to contact her.

Glen Davidson

Sorry.  That might have been misconstrued.

I did e-mail O'Leary.  I got, from her, a typical non-answer.  She is... indeed... useless.

I apologize to those I might have offended here.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4365
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,18:21   

Quote
It is kind of curious that they had no smoke detector.


Curious?  Or planned that way by the Darwinists and/or Cabal of CBEB's????

What's curious is that the dog did nothing in the night...

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1365
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,18:47   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,12:21)
 
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Sep. 14 2011,16:57)
 
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,16:32)
   
Quote (Alan Fox @ Sep. 14 2011,12:06)
     
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,06:37)
I don't often go to UD.  Raw idiocy is just too much these days.  But I had a question that only UD could answer (no I didn't find an answer).

But this on the home page struck me as... curious.

         
Quote
Do intelligent desgn theorists need the supernatural – just to leave room for a little mystery in life?
http://www.uncommondescent.com/origin-of-life/do-intelligent-deign-theorists-need-the-supernatural-just-to-leave-room-for-a-little-myste










ry-in-life/

Perhaps intelligence should use a little more intelligent design.

Does anyone have contact information for O'Leary?  Surprisingly, there is no way to contact anyone via the UD website.

Hope you're not planning any cyber stalking!

Search for "Post Darwinist" and check her profile where she lists a contact email.

Ask a question, get a typical non-answer.  Thanks, Useless.

denyseoleary@gmail.com

It was at her blog site.  I can only assume that it's current, but you'll have to find out.  I have no intention to try to contact her.

Glen Davidson

Sorry.  That might have been misconstrued.

I did e-mail O'Leary.  I got, from her, a typical non-answer.  She is... indeed... useless.

I apologize to those I might have offended here.

That's not good enough. As I was seriously not offended at all, I demand a notpology!!!

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,20:08   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Sep. 14 2011,18:05)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 14 2011,11:27)
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 14 2011,11:23)
 
Quote
Except for the obvious fact that our support for Israel pisses off the Arabs.


I would call wrong on that one. Israel support doesn't piss off Arabs. It pisses off Muslims. There is quite a few Arabs that happen to be Jews as well.

Interesting. I stand corrected.

Would many Jewish Arabs be living in the countries that seem to be supporting militant Muslims? Could you speculate on the percentage or the raw numbers?

Actually, there are many Arabic Christians in the region.

Which, in the end, would come down to the governments being pissed off, not the ethnicity as a whole. There are also arab atheists (not very outspoken, though, because of the "apostasy punishable by death" thing and all).

Now, we could also argue that all of them are semitic, so basically it's just another of those religious wars we've heard about before...

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,20:19   

I never understood the Semitic part. It seems to be anti-Jewish.

And as far as I can tell it all boils down to the fact that Jews have been successful.

At a time when Christians and Muslims could not charge interest, Jews lent money at interest. Pretty much bankrupted Europe due to the tendency of monarchs to borrow money to finance wars.

European Jews also went into arts and sciences and encouraged academic learning.

So all the people whose religion hobbled them were just envious.

I believe they still design many if not most modern computer chips. They did until recently.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,20:30   

Well, when you are forbiden to take part in a shitload of business ventures, you get very good at mastering what you are allowed to do. That's what they did in Europe, and now continue to do. Can't blame them. The reasons they were forbiden? They killed Jebus! (I am not familiar with other reasons why).

As for Semitic, it's all related to language, culture and ethnicity. Basically, all the people originated around the Jordanian/Israely/Arab Peninsula are semitic.

Linky

Admitedly, there's been some watering-down of the original ethnicity. My girlfriend, for exemple, is jewish. She's blond with blue eyes...

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3570
Joined: Mar. 2008