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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
REC



Posts: 571
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,19:45   

Quote (olegt @ Feb. 11 2012,19:20)
Barry defends the law of non-contradiction from Godless atheists.
 
Quote
Let’s clear up this law of noncontradiction issue between StephenB and eigenstate once and for all.  StephenB asks eigenstate:  “Can Jupiter exist and not exist at the same time?  That’s a “yes or no” question eigenstate.  How do you answer it?


Oh, StephenB set up such a clever trap! Obviously, a physical object either exist or it doesn't, but not both at the same time. A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.

When you're done gloating, Barry, why don't you learn yourself some basic quantum mechanics. Maybe then you'll find out that a photon (certainly a physical particle) can exist and not exist at the same time. Physicists (and now increasingly electrical engineers) manipulate the electromagnetic field inside a reflective cavity to create states that contain definite numbers of photons (e.g., 0 or 1) and superpositions thereof. (Such states can be used in quantum computing.)

Here is a paper describing such experiments conducted 15 years ago: X. Maître et al., "Quantum memory with a single photon in a cavity," Phys. Rev. Lett. 79, 769 (1997). Abstract:
 
Quote
The quantum information carried by a two-level atom was transferred to a high- Q cavity and, after a delay, to another atom. We realized in this way a quantum memory made of a field in a superposition of 0 and 1 photon Fock states. We measured the “holding time” of this memory corresponding to the decay of the field intensity or amplitude at the single photon level. This experiment implements a step essential for quantum information processing operations.


Of course, a photon is a microscopic object and Jupiter is a macroscopic one. The bigger the object, the harder it is to create and maintain it in a quantum superposition. But as far as physicists know, the difference is only quantitative. Bigger objects interact more intensely with their environment and their quantum states entangles with the environment faster. That is why we do not notice such strange states in classical objects. But on the microscopic scale, both length and time-wise, the vaunted law of noncontradiction is not exactly unbreakable.

This is Barry's bullying MO. Call out a poster, open a new thread, and try to embarrass them.

It can be a little aggravating (as some of you might have seen in my response) especially as he hacks your post to pieces in quoting it and takes it out of context. I guess it is also is beneath him to actually converse in a comment thread like the rest of us. If he wants a site to cross-ex folks that is fine, but it looks like he's almost out of witnesses.

But at least he left the comments on for you:

Comments Off

This was the third in a series to try to embarrass me-never did Barry answer a question of mine, or even comment on the point I was making.

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,20:41   

Quote (olegt @ Feb. 11 2012,17:20)
Barry defends the law of non-contradiction from Godless atheists.
Quote
Let’s clear up this law of noncontradiction issue between StephenB and eigenstate once and for all.  StephenB asks eigenstate:  “Can Jupiter exist and not exist at the same time?  That’s a “yes or no” question eigenstate.  How do you answer it?


Oh, StephenB set up such a clever trap! Obviously, a physical object either exist or it doesn't, but not both at the same time. A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.

When you're done gloating, Barry, why don't you learn yourself some basic quantum mechanics. Maybe then you'll find out that a photon (certainly a physical particle) can exist and not exist at the same time. Physicists (and now increasingly electrical engineers) manipulate the electromagnetic field inside a reflective cavity to create states that contain definite numbers of photons (e.g., 0 or 1) and superpositions thereof. (Such states can be used in quantum computing.)

Here is a paper describing such experiments conducted 15 years ago: X. Maître et al., "Quantum memory with a single photon in a cavity," Phys. Rev. Lett. 79, 769 (1997). Abstract:
Quote
The quantum information carried by a two-level atom was transferred to a high- Q cavity and, after a delay, to another atom. We realized in this way a quantum memory made of a field in a superposition of 0 and 1 photon Fock states. We measured the “holding time” of this memory corresponding to the decay of the field intensity or amplitude at the single photon level. This experiment implements a step essential for quantum information processing operations.


Of course, a photon is a microscopic object and Jupiter is a macroscopic one. The bigger the object, the harder it is to create and maintain it in a quantum superposition. But as far as physicists know, the difference is only quantitative. Bigger objects interact more intensely with their environment and their quantum states entangles with the environment faster. That is why we do not notice such strange states in classical objects. But on the microscopic scale, both length and time-wise, the vaunted law of noncontradiction is not exactly unbreakable.

olegt,

As far as I can see, quantum mechanics  doesn't require us to jettison the law of non-contradiction, though it does force us to drop the law of the excluded middle.

However, the issue certainly isn't as cut-and-dried as Barry and StephenB would like to pretend. And StephenB's dogmatic assertion that causality can be derived from the LNC, and that anyone claiming otherwise is denying the "principles of right reason", is clearly bogus.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2596
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,20:56   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 11 2012,18:33)
Eigenstate shreds nullasalus's bogus 'civility' argument.  It's worth reproducing in full:
     
Quote (eigenstate @ Feb 11 2012, 17:30)

@nullasalus,
   
Quote
Buddy, there’s only one of us here who’s defending ad hominem attacks, and that’s you. You tried to wordsmith your way into establishing that sitting around for years, digging up RL pictures of your opponents to post, mock, deface, screaming about how you think they’re all gay, etc, is… you know, some kind of intellectual, reasonable activity.

I’m under no illusion about the abusive nature of taunts and epithets at AtBC, or wherever they occur (it happens here — hi Joe and KF!). It was not and is not my claim that those are any kind of argument from the AtBC members. They are not, it’s just mockery, satire and namecalling. {snip}

At this point, nullasalus probably wishes that eigenstate had gotten banned too.

AtBC gave us a home, nullasalus, when the 'good' people of Uncommon Descent cast us out. Uncommon Descent itself created this isle of mockery from the banned who have found refuge on its shores.



-
By the way, commentary on Uncommon Descent and documenting its goings-on is on-topic for this thread.

--------------
Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,20:59   

kf is still making shit up

Quote
What is really at work then is evidently that you object to cases where on tested reliable sign, design is a warranted inference, but this inference cuts across what he dominant, evolutionary materialist school of thought wishes to insist on. For concrete instance, the coded digital information that is at the heart of cell based life and of new body plans. 100 – 1,000 k bits of for the first, 10 – 100 mns apiece for the second, where just 1,000 bits of info specify 1.07 * 10^301 possibilities, so many that the whole observed universe, across its lifespan, could not sample 1 in 10^150 of possibilities


it's amazing how he just makes shit up

shorter KF:  walk it off, lampshade, we make the rules here

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
REC



Posts: 571
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,21:47   

On closer inspection, I might have misspoken. It looks like Barry did NOT give eigenstate an opportunity to respond to the new thread calling him out.

Based on timestamps of comments, looks like eigenstate was red inked prior to even being asked about Jupiter, which Barry proceeds to start a new thread on:

Quote

“Can Jupiter exist and not exist at the same time?  That’s a “yes or no” question eigenstate.  How do you answer it?


Which is asked here:
Quote
StephenB February 11, 2012 at 5:26 pm
As always, eigen, you miss the obvious point, which you seek to camouflage in a linguistic fog. Can Jupiter exist and not exist at the same time, or can it not? If not, why not?


Link

Which is umm....a minute after this:
Quote
Barry Arrington February 11, 2012 at 5:25 pm
eigenstate complains bitterly on this site about being denied a fair opportunity to complain bitterly on this site and fails to see the irony of his project. It is useless to try to reason with such as he.


Banned, then interrogated?

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1956
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,21:54   

Quote (REC @ Feb. 11 2012,17:45)
It can be a little aggravating (as some of you might have seen in my response) especially as he hacks your post to pieces in quoting it and takes it out of context. I guess it is also is beneath him to actually converse in a comment thread like the rest of us. If he wants a site to cross-ex folks that is fine, but it looks like he's almost out of witnesses.

But at least he left the comments on for you:

Comments Off

This was the third in a series to try to embarrass me-never did Barry answer a question of mine, or even comment on the point I was making.

Well, Barry is a slimy, stupid coward.

But you knew that, right?

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
REC



Posts: 571
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,21:54   

Watching from a distance might be more fun:

From KF-
Quote
ES; If you have done any significant experimental work, you will know that we routinely trichotomise observed effects, on investigator intervention, random scatter and laws of necessity, just for one instance.


1) KF has done significant experimental work?
2) WTF is "trichotomise?" Is that like lobotimize X3? Or one more than a dichotomy?
3) How does one 'intervene' with a 'law of necessity?" The only use I know of for law of necessity is legal/ethical in terms of self-preservation

Random paragraph generator?

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1956
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,21:58   

"trichotomise?"

Split hairs

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,22:15   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 11 2012,22:58)
"trichotomise?"

Split hairs

HEY that's Henry J's gig!  LMAO

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,22:16   

Quote (REC @ Feb. 11 2012,22:54)
Watching from a distance might be more fun:

From KF-
Quote
ES; If you have done any significant experimental work, you will know that we routinely trichotomise observed effects, on investigator intervention, random scatter and laws of necessity, just for one instance.


1) KF has done significant experimental work?
2) WTF is "trichotomise?" Is that like lobotimize X3? Or one more than a dichotomy?
3) How does one 'intervene' with a 'law of necessity?" The only use I know of for law of necessity is legal/ethical in terms of self-preservation

Random paragraph generator?

he is claiming to be a scientist in that thread in another quote.  wot a maroon

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
olegt



Posts: 1387
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,22:44   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 11 2012,20:41)
olegt,

As far as I can see, quantum mechanics  doesn't require us to jettison the law of non-contradiction, though it does force us to drop the law of the excluded middle.

However, the issue certainly isn't as cut-and-dried as Barry and StephenB would like to pretend. And StephenB's dogmatic assertion that causality can be derived from the LNC, and that anyone claiming otherwise is denying the "principles of right reason", is clearly bogus.

keiths,

I agree that quantum mechanics is at odds with the law of excluded middle: a quantum bit can be not only in mutually exclusive states 0 and 1, but also in other physical states that interpolate continuously between them (Bloch sphere).

But I disagree with your attempt to save the law of noncontradiction by viewing these other states as distinct from states 0 and 1.  That is a bit problematic. If all states on the Bloch sphere were distinct then we could store a lot of information using them. However, a two-level system can store at most one bit. A state on the equator of the Bloch sphere is an equal-parts superposition of states at the poles. It is different from them, yet not distinct. That is a rather fine point that we will probably have to discuss later.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4241
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,22:54   

Quote (olegt @ Feb. 11 2012,20:20)
Barry defends the law of non-contradiction from Godless atheists.
 
Quote
Let’s clear up this law of noncontradiction issue between StephenB and eigenstate once and for all.  StephenB asks eigenstate:  “Can Jupiter exist and not exist at the same time?  That’s a “yes or no” question eigenstate.  How do you answer it?

Eigenstate, ask StephenB which elements of contemporary evolutionary theory hinge upon alleged misapplications of his "rules of right reason."

First time he was asked, he forgot to answer.

Second time, well gosh, he forgot to answer again.

Last time he was asked, well, shoot. He forgot to answer again. I still say that old boy is headed for the park bench.

Help him to remember.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,23:07   

groovamos tried scientific materialism, but gave it up on account of the "pointless sex":
Quote
Twice in my life I subscribed to scientific materialism, it is just too sexy an option for most young students to pass up. Literally, as in those circles, they’re just so besotted by the easy sex. That was the first time, and when that backfired I backed out of it, only to be bamboozled a few years later in SoCal because it was just so easy to fall into again out there. But a few years of living in a “pointless” universe full of pointless sex ground down my being a little too much for comfort.

I see the outlines of a Joel Borofsky hoo-hoo fixation.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2012,23:12   

Quote (olegt @ Feb. 11 2012,20:44)
That is a rather fine point that we will probably have to discuss later.

Yes, after all the UD bannination smoke clears.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
eigenstate



Posts: 76
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,00:01   

My post to Barry, which I suspect may not be preserved over there, given the current dynamics:

 
Quote

Theoretically, yes. In practice, the probabilities are so vanishingly small it's indistinguishable from no.

Scale matters; superposition is fragile with respect to other elements in the system that force a classical resolution. Recent experiments have provided experimental verification that macroscale objects can be put in superposition (see <a href="http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100317/full/news.2010.130.html">here</a>):

   
Quote

But although the rules of quantum mechanics seem to apply at small scales, nobody has seen evidence of them on a large scale, where outside influences can more easily destroy fragile quantum states. "No one has shown to date that if you take a big object, with trillions of atoms in it, that quantum mechanics applies to its motion," Cleland says.


The "paddle" object in this experiment was just 30 micrometers long. But that's freaking HUGE compared to the Planck length. Jupiter is just so many orders of magnitude bigger than that, that the prospects for superposition in that case become ONLY theoretical. Too many resolving influences make it statistically impossible.

The linked article describing the experimental evidence for QM weirdness "scaling up" includes this comment from a physicist at the U of Oregon:
   
Quote

"It's wonderful," says Hailin Wang, a physicist at the University of Oregon in Eugene who has been working on a rival technique for putting an oscillator into the ground state. The work shows that the laws of quantum mechanics hold up as expected on a large scale. "It's good for physics for sure," Wang says.

So if trillions of atoms can be put into a quantum state, why don't we see double-decker buses simultaneously stopping and going? Cleland says he believes size does matter: the larger an object, the easier it is for outside forces to disrupt its quantum state.

(emphasis mine)

Those wacky physicists, I tell ya.

On an LNC-related note, this from the same article:
 
Quote

Next, the researchers put the quantum circuit into a superposition of 'push' and 'don't push', and connected it to the paddle. Through a series of careful measurements, <b>they were able to show that the paddle was both vibrating and not vibrating simultaneously</b>.

(emphasis mine)

Sound familiar, StephenB (and Barry, if you've been reading our exchange)? I will note here that champignon's comment on this being best viewed as a  Law of the Excluded Middle issue is a point well taken. But that notwithstanding, you have QM weirdness in the real world ostensibly misbehaving against our propositional logic. "Vibrating" and "Not Vibrating" in the same sense, for the same object at the same time.

Here's another example from a similar experiment (<a href="http://www3.amherst.edu/~jrfriedman/NYTimes/071100sci-quantum-mechanics.html">link</a>), where Dr. Anthony Leggett of U of Illinois, Champaign, Urbana weighs in on a solar system body -- not Jupiter but the moon (the moon was the example Einstein initiated these questions with: "does the moon exist if no one is looking at it?"  :

   
Quote

For Dr. Leggett, quantum mechanics at the macroscopic level is still uncertain -- and troubling. "It may bother me even more now," Dr. Leggett said. "I'm interested in the possibility that quantum mechanics, at some stage, may be wrong."

A few physicists have devised so-called macrorealistic theories to resolve the ambiguities of quantum mechanics. "What you get in quantum mechanics is not what you see," said Dr. Philip Pearle, a professor of physics at Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y. "Schrödinger felt this acutely. He himself felt something with quantum mechanics was wrong."

Dr. Pearle and colleagues in Italy propose to add a term to Schrödinger's equation that, in effect, constantly jiggles the fabric of the universe. Atomic-scale objects only jiggle a little and thus remain a blur, which preserves the predictions of quantum mechanics. Larger objects, like people or the Moon, jiggle more and quickly fall into a definite here and there, which corresponds to everyday experience.

(emphasis mine)

Barry, if you've read my earlier responses to StephenB on this, you will recognize the same ideas quoted here in my answers. Jupiter has a virtually zero statistical basis for avoiding decoherence, hence it will ALWAYS be there in the full, classical (non-superposition) sense.

Lastly, this, regarding the LNC-problematic nature of this second expirement:

   
Quote

The experiment combines two possibilities, known as a quantum superposition, for the direction of the flow of electric current: clockwise around the loop or counterclockwise.

The researchers measured an energy difference between the two states of the loop, a sign the current was a quantum superposition and not simply flipping directions.

Just as the cat is neither alive nor dead but a ghostly mix of the two possibilities, the current flows neither clockwise nor counterclockwise, but is a mix of the two possibilities.

(my emphasis)
Note that per superposition, this is not simply a matter of a "bi-directional current". This is two otherwise exclusive one-way directions happening at the same time, exclusive states superimposed:
   
Quote

A measurement always gives one of the two possible answers, clockwise or counterclockwise, never a zero cancellation.


Glad to have the opportunity to settle this once and for all! Statistically, it will never happen for Jupiter, but it remains a theoretical possibility. It's the same as wondering if I could fairly shuffle and deal a 52 card deck and deal the cards out, producing the same exact card order as the first shuffle a billion times in row. In theory, it cannot be eliminated as a possibility. As a practical matter, the odds are insdistinguishable from zero.

  
eigenstate



Posts: 76
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,00:09   

Quote (REC @ Feb. 11 2012,21:47)
On closer inspection, I might have misspoken. It looks like Barry did NOT give eigenstate an opportunity to respond to the new thread calling him out.

Based on timestamps of comments, looks like eigenstate was red inked prior to even being asked about Jupiter, which Barry proceeds to start a new thread on:

 
Quote

“Can Jupiter exist and not exist at the same time?  That’s a “yes or no” question eigenstate.  How do you answer it?


Which is asked here:
 
Quote
StephenB February 11, 2012 at 5:26 pm
As always, eigen, you miss the obvious point, which you seek to camouflage in a linguistic fog. Can Jupiter exist and not exist at the same time, or can it not? If not, why not?


Link

Which is umm....a minute after this:
 
Quote
Barry Arrington February 11, 2012 at 5:25 pm
eigenstate complains bitterly on this site about being denied a fair opportunity to complain bitterly on this site and fails to see the irony of his project. It is useless to try to reason with such as he.


Banned, then interrogated?

I run several wordpress blogs for work, and you can set up the posting rights with fine granularity like this -- before I logged in tonight, the comments were disabled, and when I logged in, I had a combox.

I posted a response, which I spammed into the thread here just in case, but it's in a moderating queue, as it didn't show up quick like it normally does.

  
REC



Posts: 571
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,00:37   

If it appears, hope that it isn't snipped to "Theoretically, yes" followed by mockery.

Remember, these are the looks improbable=God crowd.

  
Woodbine



Posts: 782
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,01:01   

Boycott the bastards, Eigenstate! Let them exchange furtive glances as the traffic stats plummet.

  
eigenstate



Posts: 76
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,01:15   

Quote (REC @ Feb. 12 2012,00:37)
If it appears, hope that it isn't snipped to "Theoretically, yes" followed by mockery.

Remember, these are the looks improbable=God crowd.

Well, I actually contemplated that, and wrote the first two sentences so that they were short and clear, and could stand on their own if Barry were to censor the rest. I made "Theoretically, yes" the first sentence, because although it's unfair and incomplete to represent as my answer, it's the best two word answer I could give, if I was limited to just that.

Like I said a couple weeks ago, I'm not näive about how UD works, I'm a new poster, but have been reading a long time. Before my first post there, I'm resigned to the outcomes that happen, and understand going in there is no way to placate them or tiptoe them satisfactorily, even if I wanted to. I just say my piece, and what happens, happens. I really can't be surprised, or even disappointed, because my expectations have been calibrated by the experience of reading over there for a good while.

I will make the non-ambitious prediction that now eigenstate is just that much less worth any engagement because, you know, he thinks Jupiter just randomly goes missing at different times, and comes back into existence just as randomly. That guy is wack!

@Reciprocating Bill (upthread), got ya, will do (if possible!) on the questions -- I remember the exchange you linked to.

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,02:24   

After getting his ass kicked all night by eigenstate, nullasalus bravely runs away.  But not before looking over his shoulder, making sure he has a safe head start, and talking some trash:
Quote
So, I’ll be walking away now. I’d say you should look me up when you grow a pair and get a little sharper, but really, I’m at least cognizant of my minor place in these things – discussing things with me is not some holy privilege. And besides, what’re the odds you’ll ever man up? We’ll need a decimal point and a few zeroes in a row to state that.


--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 514
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,03:40   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 12 2012,02:24)
After getting his ass kicked all night by eigenstate, nullasalus bravely runs away.  But not before looking over his shoulder, making sure he has a safe head start, and talking some trash:
         
Quote
So, I’ll be walking away now. I’d say you should look me up when you grow a pair and get a little sharper, but really, I’m at least cognizant of my minor place in these things – discussing things with me is not some holy privilege. And besides, what’re the odds you’ll ever man up? We’ll need a decimal point and a few zeroes in a row to state that.

Aw, let's have that trash in full, we need the full extent of eigenstate's public humiliation 'for record':
       
Quote
You’re not worth my time, eigen. You clearly have some bizarre view of yourself as being Too Important To Ignore, along with your crazy-ass AtBC obsessives. You’re a coward who won’t criticize your Home Team, no matter what they do. And honest to God, you’re just not all that impressive in discussion, aside from having above average grammar – good job on that.

So, I’ll be walking away now. I’d say you should look me up when you grow a pair and get a little sharper, but really, I’m at least cognizant of my minor place in these things – discussing things with me is not some holy privilege. And besides, what’re the odds you’ll ever man up? We’ll need a decimal point and a few zeroes in a row to state that.

Oh, and there was a smily, 'cos he was only joking.

I really hate myself for this. It should be about arguments, not personalities or behaviour. Null could simply have stopped, and one wouldn't bat an eyelid. Good debate, well done chaps. But when two such arf-laden paragraphs get tacked on the end of a discussion ... can't ... help myself ... must ... mock ... nnnnngggghhhh ...

Brave Sir Robin ran away. ("No!") Bravely ran away away. ("I didn't!") When danger reared it's ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled. ("no!") Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about ("I didn't!") And gallantly he chickened out. ****Bravely**** taking ("I never did!") to his feet, He beat a very brave retreat. ("all lies!") Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Robin! ("I never!")

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Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,07:29   

Quote (Soapy Sam @ Feb. 12 2012,04:40)
It should be about arguments, not personalities or behaviour.

oh, that window closed long long long ago, judge jones

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4241
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,07:30   

Nullasulus does connect:
 
Quote
After all, how people conduct themselves isn’t important. The super-duper, abso-freaking-lutely, most important thing in the world – the thing you dedicate so much of your life to, that you think is Truly Important… is arguing on the internet. God forbid you let any sort of standard get in the way of THAT.

He's right. I am ashamed. *Hangs head*

(Thus Null concludes the 10,209 words he has posted on that thread since Friday.)

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
k.e..



Posts: 2896
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,07:56   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Feb. 12 2012,15:30)
Nullasus does connect:
 
Quote
After all, how people conduct themselves isn’t important. The super-duper, abso-freaking-lutely, most important thing in the world – the thing you dedicate so much of your life to, that you think is Truly Important… is arguing on the internet. God forbid you let any sort of standard get in the way of THAT.

He's right. I am ashamed. *Hangs head*

(Thus Null concludes the 10,209 words he has posted on that thread since Friday.)

......oh so nullnonsense finally got it.

He's a useless cunt.

Sores in his butt in front of his PC confirm it.

Over to Dr.Dr.Dembski to save his ass.

Sounds of tumble weeds chirping.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
The whole truth



Posts: 985
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,08:12   

nullasalus puked:

"And besides, what’re the odds you’ll ever man up?"

That, from a two-faced sniveling cry-baby coward who hides in the UD sanctuary for IDiotic losers, and even there, when he can't have his way, he runs away.




Something interesting: TinyPic requires a code word or words to upload a picture and when I uploaded this one the code was "level playing field".

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3560
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,08:31   

What is up with the obsession at UD with other guy's testicles? Bornagain77 made similar comments about mine.

You'd think, considering their public display of homophobia, they would keep that closet door more carefully latched.

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”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
The whole truth



Posts: 985
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,08:49   

Barry Arrington
November 2nd, 2011 | 2:18 pm

This reminds me of the “butterfly” bill that came before my committee when I was in the legislature of my state. A teacher had the bright idea that her 6th grade class should have as a class project getting a law passed. After some deliberation they proposed a bill to make some butterfly or another the “state butterfly” of Colorado, and they convinced a legislator to actually carry the bill. When it got to my committee I lead a charge against it for much the same reason Joe explains. Except this was worse. A resolution is just a statement of collective opinion. It carries not force of law. Had it passed, this bill would have become law. Frankly, I was offended by this frivolous and insouciant approach to law, and I got the bill killed. My reward: Icy stares from the adults and rivers of tears from the students. I still think I did the right thing.

asshole



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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2596
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,09:20   

Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 12 2012,08:49)
Barry Arrington
November 2nd, 2011 | 2:18 pm

This reminds me of the “butterfly” bill that came before my committee when I was in the legislature of my state. A teacher had the bright idea that her 6th grade class should have as a class project getting a law passed. After some deliberation they proposed a bill to make some butterfly or another the “state butterfly” of Colorado, and they convinced a legislator to actually carry the bill. When it got to my committee I lead a charge against it for much the same reason Joe explains. Except this was worse. A resolution is just a statement of collective opinion. It carries not force of law. Had it passed, this bill would have become law. Frankly, I was offended by this frivolous and insouciant approach to law, and I got the bill killed. My reward: Icy stares from the adults and rivers of tears from the students. I still think I did the right thing.

asshole

Totally. Fortunately, the Colorado Hairstreak Butterfly was made the official state insect on April 17, 1996.


www.colorado.gov/dpa/doit/archives/history/symbemb.htm


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Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2596
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,09:22   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 11 2012,23:12)
Quote (olegt @ Feb. 11 2012,20:44)
That is a rather fine point that we will probably have to discuss later.

Yes, after all the UD bannination smoke clears.

You should know better than to contradict someone who contradicts the law of non-contradiction.

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Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
The whole truth



Posts: 985
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2012,09:27   

Quote (Zachriel @ Feb. 12 2012,07:20)
Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 12 2012,08:49)
Barry Arrington
November 2nd, 2011 | 2:18 pm

This reminds me of the “butterfly” bill that came before my committee when I was in the legislature of my state. A teacher had the bright idea that her 6th grade class should have as a class project getting a law passed. After some deliberation they proposed a bill to make some butterfly or another the “state butterfly” of Colorado, and they convinced a legislator to actually carry the bill. When it got to my committee I lead a charge against it for much the same reason Joe explains. Except this was worse. A resolution is just a statement of collective opinion. It carries not force of law. Had it passed, this bill would have become law. Frankly, I was offended by this frivolous and insouciant approach to law, and I got the bill killed. My reward: Icy stares from the adults and rivers of tears from the students. I still think I did the right thing.

asshole

Totally. Fortunately, the Colorado Hairstreak Butterfly was made the official state insect on April 17, 1996.


www.colorado.gov/dpa/doit/archives/history/symbemb.htm


It's a beauty.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
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