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  Topic: Ben Stein plays the Nazi card< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Jason Spaceman



Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,12:53   

Quote
Why Darwinism is So Dangerous

Ben Stein, host of a new film on Intelligent Design vs. Darwinism, gives an answer

ByKatherine T. Phan
Christian Post Reporter
Wed, Jan. 23 2008 07:58 AM ET

For Ben Stein, host of an upcoming documentary on the dominance of Darwinism in academia, Darwinism is not just problematic but dangerous even.

In a media teleconference for the film “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” on Tuesday, Stein pointed out that Darwinian teaching on natural selection and random mutation "led in a straight line to the holocaust and Nazism."

Darwin said that there were certain species that were superior to other species and all were competing for scarce supplies of food or resources, Stein pointed out. But if there was a limited supply of basic resources, Darwinism taught that "you owe it to the superior race to kill the inferior race," he told reporters.

Darwinian evolutionary theory fueled Nazi idealism that felt gypsies, Eastern Europeans and others were competing with them for scarce basic resources, explained Stein.

"As a Jew, I am horrified that people thought Jews were so inferior they didn't deserve to live," he commented.


Read it here.

   
JohnW



Posts: 2235
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,13:14   

Quote (Jason Spaceman @ Jan. 23 2008,10:53)
Quote
Why Darwinism is So Dangerous

Ben Stein, host of a new film on Intelligent Design vs. Darwinism, gives an answer

ByKatherine T. Phan
Christian Post Reporter
Wed, Jan. 23 2008 07:58 AM ET

For Ben Stein, host of an upcoming documentary on the dominance of Darwinism in academia, Darwinism is not just problematic but dangerous even.

In a media teleconference for the film “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” on Tuesday, Stein pointed out that Darwinian teaching on natural selection and random mutation "led in a straight line to the holocaust and Nazism."

Darwin said that there were certain species that were superior to other species and all were competing for scarce supplies of food or resources, Stein pointed out. But if there was a limited supply of basic resources, Darwinism taught that "you owe it to the superior race to kill the inferior race," he told reporters.

Darwinian evolutionary theory fueled Nazi idealism that felt gypsies, Eastern Europeans and others were competing with them for scarce basic resources, explained Stein.

"As a Jew, I am horrified that people thought Jews were so inferior they didn't deserve to live," he commented.


Read it here.

Antisemitism:
Quote
Contents [hide]
1 Forms

2 Etymology and usage
2.1 Definitions
2.2 Use as a pejorative

3 History
3.1 Ancient world
3.2 Accusations of deicide
3.3 Persecution of Jews in the Middle Ages
3.4 Medieval Accusations of Deicide
3.5 Seventeenth century
3.6 Eighteenth century

3.7 Nineteenth century
3.8 Twentieth century

I fixed this.  Darwin invented antisemitism.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4362
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,13:39   

Damn!  From the Topic Headline,I thought Stein was coming clean, and saying that he looks good goose-stepping in field gray.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
jeannot



Posts: 1200
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,13:42   


Bueller...?

(I couldn't help it.  :p )

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 752
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,15:13   

I'm hoping that Stein is telling the truth for once:

 
Quote
Ben, himself, has lost opportunities because of his work on the project and regularly receives hate mail.


Not the hate mail, if true, but I don't mind either people telling him that he's an ignorant twit promoting theo-fascism, nor the fact of people who prefer liberty to his brand of dictatorship not hiring such a cheap con-man.

Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,15:42   

Quote (Glen Davidson @ Jan. 23 2008,14:13)
I'm hoping that Stein is telling the truth for once:

Quote
Ben, himself, has lost opportunities because of his work on the project and regularly receives hate mail.


Not the hate mail, if true, but I don't mind either people telling him that he's an ignorant twit promoting theo-fascism, nor the fact that people who prefer liberty to his brand of dictatorship not hiring such a cheap con-man.

Glen D

Well, considering that he's on the carny circuit, he's probably getting hate mail from the kind of fanatics who think you're the "wrong" kind of creationist.

But remember, this is the guy who screamed “Nazis” at the cops who arrested Larry Craig for doing what Craig says he wasn’t doing but the ACLU will now defend his right to do (and I agree!;).

In other words, Ben Stein is a drama…queen? :) (That slipped out. Naa, I don’t think it’s true. If anyone needs to come out of the closet, it’s Ray Comfort. And yeah, hoo boy, imagine how the right wing will trumpet dangers of Nazism, which persecuted gays, then. Oh, yeah, we'll hear all about how we'd better not act like Nazis then.)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Chayanov



Posts: 289
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,17:02   

If "Darwinism" is responsible for the Nazis, then Christianity is responsible for slavery and genocide in the Americas (Both supported by Biblical scripture). Time for all those churches to start paying out reparations.

Or at least drop that ridiculous "Darwinism leads to Nazism" non-argument.

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Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1005
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,18:17   

You think that's bad?  Huh?

Well, there's nothing as bad as



Nazis and Football!

  
rhmc



Posts: 340
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,18:34   

i laughed my ass off. pretty funny stuff.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4362
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,21:56   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 23 2008,18:17)
You think that's bad?  Huh?

Well, there's nothing as bad as



Nazis and Football!

Doc Bill - You are my new bestest friend.  That was fucking Hitlerareous.

BTW - Since Ben Stein has decided not to be Jewish anymore, maybe someone could send him a TO shirt.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1005
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,21:59   

Well, for all you hard core gamers there's


THIS!

Awwwww, and Wii bowling is so cool.

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 197
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2008,18:03   

Eversince I read Faith and Fratrice: The theological roots of anti-semitism, by Rosemary Radford Ruether, I've had real trouble keeping a straight face when reading comments like Ben is spewing. I can't remember learning anything about the history of Jewish-Christian relations back in school (perhaps kept quiet on purpose?), but this book was an eye-opener. Centuries of systematic persecution and pogroms on the Jews all over Europe, before Adolf came goose-stepping, and now we only hear from Disco how its all his fault (cuz he read Darwin, you see).

--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2008,23:48   

* edit: repeated myself

  
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2008,00:19   

Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Jan. 28 2008,11:03)
Eversince I read Faith and Fratrice: The theological roots of anti-semitism, by Rosemary Radford Ruether, I've had real trouble keeping a straight face when reading comments like Ben is spewing. I can't remember learning anything about the history of Jewish-Christian relations back in school (perhaps kept quiet on purpose?), but this book was an eye-opener. Centuries of systematic persecution and pogroms on the Jews all over Europe, before Adolf came goose-stepping, and now we only hear from Disco how its all his fault (cuz he read Darwin, you see).

My father was East European and I am sure that a lot of his neighbours welcomed the Germans to rid them of the Jews and Moslems. They were "good" Christians and would have been aghast if they thought that Hitler was an atheist.

It's strange that the side of the science debate that has a lot of the anti-gay/anti-brown/anti-moslem* people on it's side think that Evolution supporters are the Nazis.

Michael

  
Nomad



Posts: 311
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2008,02:32   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 23 2008,21:59)
Well, for all you hard core gamers there's


THIS!

Awwwww, and Wii bowling is so cool.

Yes, that one works much better for me.  Especially since the maker managed to work a "Hitler plays with his Wii" joke into it.

  
PTET



Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2008,07:34   

Quote (Glen Davidson @ Jan. 23 2008,15:13)
I'm hoping that Stein is telling the truth for once:

   
Quote
Ben, himself, has lost opportunities because of his work on the project and regularly receives hate mail.


Not the hate mail, if true, but I don't mind either people telling him that he's an ignorant twit promoting theo-fascism, nor the fact of people who prefer liberty to his brand of dictatorship not hiring such a cheap con-man.

Glen D

This seems like a good a place as any for a competition competition... Obviously the attached pic is far too childish to publish anywhere... But what *could* Ben Stein be writing with that spray-can? He is after all, this generation's rebel...

The best caption "wins a prize".



--------------
"It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time.
Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

   
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 554
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2008,08:56   



--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Lowell



Posts: 101
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,23:32   

I haven't seen the film. (I RSVPd for a viewing and received an e-mail confirmation, but had to cancel the day before.)

Nevertheless, Dawkins's review made me think we should revive this thread because it describes the evolution/Nazism theme the movie apparently tries to push. It also suggests the idea (which is purely my own deduction) that the filmakers wanted a Jewish spokesperson (Ben Stein) for "cover" because of how flimsy that connection is.

Dawkins wrote:

"He visits Dachau and, when informed by the guide that lots of Jews had been killed there, he buries his face in his hands as though this is the first time he has heard of it. Obviously it was not his intention, but I thought his rotten acting was an insult to the memory of the victims."

I was raised Jewish (although I'm now an open atheist), but I find the evolution/Holocaust conflation extraordinarily offensive for all the obvious reasons, including (1) the Reich clearly relied more on religious rhetoric than scientific, (2) whatever scientific grounds it relied on were wrong, and (3) even if those scientific grounds were not wrong, the fact that scientific knowledge is put to an immoral end has no bearing on its truth value.  

ERV blogged previously on a potential ADL (Anti-Defamation League) response (which I'm not yet computer-savvy enough to link to). I hope such a response will be forthcoming (probably not until after the release).

It seems to me that even non-scientists (like me) from a Jewish heritage would see through this movie insofar as it misrepresents the forces that drove the Holocaust. It's not quite Holocaust-denial, but it smells similar.

--------------
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events of antiquity. Barry Arrington, Jan 17, 2012.

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,23:53   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 23 2008,18:17)
You think that's bad?  Huh?

Well, there's nothing as bad as



Nazis and Football!

Quote
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Demand Entertainment


--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:02   

Quote (PTET @ Jan. 28 2008,06:34)
 
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Jan. 23 2008,15:13)
I'm hoping that Stein is telling the truth for once:

     
Quote
Ben, himself, has lost opportunities because of his work on the project and regularly receives hate mail.


Not the hate mail, if true, but I don't mind either people telling him that he's an ignorant twit promoting theo-fascism, nor the fact of people who prefer liberty to his brand of dictatorship not hiring such a cheap con-man.

Glen D

This seems like a good a place as any for a competition competition... Obviously the attached pic is far too childish to publish anywhere... But what *could* Ben Stein be writing with that spray-can? He is after all, this generation's rebel...

The best caption "wins a prize".


"Strength through Joy"? :p

 
Quote
At age eighteen young German men served for a year in the Reichsarbeitsdienst—Imperial Labor Service—while the young women served as farm workers both in the fields and in the house. Shirer remembered humorously that “Inevitably, moral problems arose. The presence of a pretty young city girl sometimes disrupted a peasant’s household” he said, “and angry complaints from parents, about their daughters having been made pregnant on the farms, began to be heard.” Soon a “lively little song” about the plight of the young female “volunteers “ was circulated. It was a takeoff on Strength Through Joy, the Nazis’ slogan for its puppet German Labor Front. The song, which in German rhymed poetically, went:
In the fields and on the heath
I lose Strength Through Joy.



--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
dochocson



Posts: 62
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:03   

Consider the contrast between the ham handed scene of Stein at Dachau and Jacob Bronowski's wrenching visit (at Auschwitz?) in The Ascent of Man.

I can only imagine what Bronowski would have to say about all this.

--------------
All bleeding stops...eventually.

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:25   



--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:52   

That's beautiful. :D

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Lowell



Posts: 101
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:58   

Quote (dochocson @ Mar. 25 2008,00:03)
Consider the contrast between the ham handed scene of Stein at Dachau and Jacob Bronowski's wrenching visit (at Auschwitz?) in The Ascent of Man.

I can only imagine what Bronowski would have to say about all this.

It was Auschwitz. Thank you for the reference.

Bronowski at Auschwitz

--------------
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events of antiquity. Barry Arrington, Jan 17, 2012.

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,01:04   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 25 2008,00:52)
That's beautiful. :D

Do you mean the Ben-Guernica?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,01:04   


;)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1005
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,01:12   

I watched Bronowski's original series when it was broadcast.  I have his book, the Ascent of Man, and the DVD collection.  Jacob Bronowski is a towering intellectual and a personal hero of mine.

Ben Stein is a buffoon and an idiot.

Ben Stein is an insult to Bronowski and to all those who lost their lives during WW2.

Ben Stein should be ashamed and humiliated about what he has done.

It's not funny, Ben Stein, you have dishonored your people and people you never knew.  Ben Stein, you have mocked the death of millions of innocent people for your own personal gain.  You are disgusting beyond words.

Ben Stein, you are a disgrace to your family.  You are an intellectual vandal, and a scientific slanderer.

Shame on you, Ben Stein, shame on you.

  
Reed



Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,04:09   


My take on Ben.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4362
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,11:31   

Quote (Reed @ Mar. 25 2008,04:09)

My take on Ben.

I think you have caught the essence of Ben Stein.

Rather than stand on the shoulders of giants, he has chosen to stand on the shoulders of piss-ants.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
KimvdLinde



Posts: 12
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,12:05   

Ok, it is 60 years ago that the nazi's were squashed, and in the years after, most ideas loosely based on severe misinformed social Darwinisms have been eliminated in society. Nowadays, scientists are among the most liberal, most pro helping the weak, including most so-called "Darwinists". So, and now we suddenly have to believe that because some idiot who misused Christianity-based antisemitism, mixed with misrepresented Social Darwinism SIXTY years ago, we are NOWADAYS not anything better.

Lets see, if the so-called Christian get there way, they would like to sterilize Gays, export them, kil them, because why, because they are deviant. Humm that was exactly the motivation from, guess who, Hitler. Cool. Interracial marriage. If any group does not have an issue with that, it is academics, while our average Joe Fundamentalist will nicely go to a white church and shivers with the idea that his daughter wants to marry a black guy.

Eugenetics was rampant throughout the world before World War II, including the USA. After the war, it lost it traction and the world has changed since then. And that is where I think we should focus on, not whether or not the movie is actually correct. Because of we are going to dig, it will become clear that Social Darwinism was happily embraced by many with an agenda based on century-old prejudices against anything non-white and "deviant".

  
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