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Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,12:47   

HOLY HEARTLESS HANNAH!
Quote
Recently,there was a bit of correspondence between moderators of our list about the question of whether aggressive Darwinists can be accused of being like Nazis.

Now, my own view on this subject is as follows: I don’t really care whether Darwinists who routinely launch or justify persecutions [such as?] against non-materialists are offended. It’s absolutely fine with me if they realize that their actions are closely observed and recorded.

By whom? The Department of Homeland Security? I'm not the one who makes statements at UD about violently overthrowing the government because of how the Supreme Court ruled.
Quote
I am concerned rather about any offence given to victims of Nazis and their children/grandchildren by too-casual use of such terms. When I was young (and, for a brief period, sick), I was cared for by several nurses who had camp tattoos on their forearms.

Well I have Jewish in-laws so go blow your kazoo. Are you sure those nurses weren't gay? They were in the concentration camps too, you know. Did you know that, Denyse? Did you know that some Jews are atheists and "Darwinists" BTW?
Quote
Enough of that.
Now more of that.  
Quote
Is the modern Darwinist typically a eugenicist? No, not typically, and that is something that has always puzzled me.

As you know, I have myself written several posts on the fundamental incoherence of Darwinists on the issue of eugenics, which Darwin himself brilliantly (and, I am sure, unwittingly!) demonstrated by his attitude to the Irish in his day.

Darwin - observing that, in the natural course of events, the Irish would overtake the other ethnic groups in the British Isles

Enough of that! NOW SHE'S ATTRIBUTING THAT SAME MISATTRIBUTED QUOTE TO DARWIN WHO DID NOT SAY IT, and she talks of incoherence?  
Quote
The eugenic heritage is something that Darwinists have never properly dealt with - probably because they can’t.
Yes, we're not control freaks like you and accept that we can't change the minds of people who are clueless whereas you argue yourself into knots in an obvious effort to whip up the nerve to stop talking and start shooting.

Quote
The embarrassing problem is NOT that today’s Darwinists are really racists or anti-Semites but don’t want to be tarred as such. That’s clearly untrue.
Thanks for that, sistah. You're all heart, Denyse. Are any Jewish atheists? This is a quiz.

Quote
Rather, the embarrassing problem is that the early Darwinists didn’t really believe what they wanted the public to believe - that natural selection created all things bright and beautiful. So they
Please, I can't stand it. Who is she talking about? Who specifically "felt" what and how does she know what other people feel?  
Quote

Feeling robots? - Well, as long as you feel they feel, it is true for you. Or so they say. You’ll be doing all the feeling.
Yeah, I just read your post and I'm doing all the feeling - #### straight. I'm fucking terrified. I certainly don't expect you to do any feeling, you tightlaced, finger-waving, shaming prude robot-cog for the glorious intelligent design of a Christian theocracy in the U.S.! Leave my government alone, Denyse and Borne, since you can't vote here and I can. I'm not in your concentration camp yet.

There comes a point when I think I should walk away from all of this, because it’s seriously making me depressed, and scaring the living shit out of me, or if I should keep an eye on these people because I am scared shitless that they are trying to talk themselves into planting bombs and turning their guns on their neighbor in the name of God and goodness.

I am serious. All this talk of “eugenics” is starting to sound like jealousy to me! Obviously they do not see “Darwinists” (for the love of Pete that’s just a word they invented to dehumanize people – replace it with “Jews” and see what happens) as “things bright and beautiful” either. Maybe they can get rid of “us”? After all it’s not eugenics if they do it, since it wouldn’t be abortion, but war (and God loves war). Get it? And it's not eugenics if it's a "global experiment", either.

The planet is not on fire but "we are the arsonists." Figure that out. And we want to do something about it because we're horrible monsters. Got it.

I'm sitting here at work thinking, Crap, these crazies know who and where I am.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,12:58   

Quote (Kristine @ April 03 2007,12:47)
...
I'm sitting here at work thinking, Crap, these crazies know who and where I am.

Seems quite scarey doesn't it? Chin up though! The chances of them doing something both effective and co-ordinated are very slim going from their past record.

Never mind. At least you are consistent. I have the shame of knowing that I was once on their side* (sorta).

EDIT:
*Which may just put me higher on their "backs against the wall" list.

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1234
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,13:02   

Quote (Louis @ April 03 2007,11:02)
Phonon,

Yeah, good angle!

"Dear Boss,

Please pay for me to go to the ACS conference in New Orleans next year for two reasons:

1) I want to see some excellent chemistry (see refs X, Y and Z)

2) I wish to inject much needed cash into that wonderful city's economy after the tragedy of Hurricane Katrina. Mainly around the Bourbon street area.

Thanks"

I can see that going down VERY well. Scientific AND moral! Who'd-a-thunk it?

Louis


I highly recommend Gordon Biersch down by Harrah's casino.  There was a fabulous chemistry seminar given there recently.  See pages 3 and 4 of http://chemistry.lsu.edu/acsbr/newsletters/2007/ACS_news_07Mar.pdf for info on the speaker.

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,13:11   

Quote (Kristine @ April 03 2007,12:47)
HOLY HEARTLESS HANNAH!
Quote
Recently,there was a bit of correspondence between moderators of our list about the question of whether aggressive Darwinists can be accused of being like Nazis.

Now, my own view on this subject is as follows: I don’t really care whether Darwinists who routinely launch or justify persecutions [such as?] against non-materialists are offended. It’s absolutely fine with me if they realize that their actions are closely observed and recorded.

By whom? The Department of Homeland Security? I'm not the one who makes statements at UD about violently overthrowing the government because of how the Supreme Court ruled.
Quote
I am concerned rather about any offence given to victims of Nazis and their children/grandchildren by too-casual use of such terms. When I was young (and, for a brief period, sick), I was cared for by several nurses who had camp tattoos on their forearms.

Well I have Jewish in-laws so go blow your kazoo. Are you sure those nurses weren't gay? They were in the concentration camps too, you know. Did you know that, Denyse? Did you know that some Jews are atheists and "Darwinists" BTW?
Quote
Enough of that.
Now more of that.    
Quote
Is the modern Darwinist typically a eugenicist? No, not typically, and that is something that has always puzzled me.

As you know, I have myself written several posts on the fundamental incoherence of Darwinists on the issue of eugenics, which Darwin himself brilliantly (and, I am sure, unwittingly!) demonstrated by his attitude to the Irish in his day.

Darwin - observing that, in the natural course of events, the Irish would overtake the other ethnic groups in the British Isles

Enough of that! NOW SHE'S ATTRIBUTING THAT SAME MISATTRIBUTED QUOTE TO DARWIN WHO DID NOT SAY IT, and she talks of incoherence?    
Quote
The eugenic heritage is something that Darwinists have never properly dealt with - probably because they can’t.
Yes, we're not control freaks like you and accept that we can't change the minds of people who are clueless whereas you argue yourself into knots in an obvious effort to whip up the nerve to stop talking and start shooting.

Quote
The embarrassing problem is NOT that today’s Darwinists are really racists or anti-Semites but don’t want to be tarred as such. That’s clearly untrue.
Thanks for that, sistah. You're all heart, Denyse. Are any Jewish atheists? This is a quiz.

Quote
Rather, the embarrassing problem is that the early Darwinists didn’t really believe what they wanted the public to believe - that natural selection created all things bright and beautiful. So they
Please, I can't stand it. Who is she talking about? Who specifically "felt" what and how does she know what other people feel?    
Quote

Feeling robots? - Well, as long as you feel they feel, it is true for you. Or so they say. You’ll be doing all the feeling.
Yeah, I just read your post and I'm doing all the feeling - #### straight. I'm fucking terrified. I certainly don't expect you to do any feeling, you tightlaced, finger-waving, shaming prude robot-cog for the glorious intelligent design of a Christian theocracy in the U.S.! Leave my government alone, Denyse and Borne, since you can't vote here and I can. I'm not in your concentration camp yet.

There comes a point when I think I should walk away from all of this, because it’s seriously making me depressed, and scaring the living shit out of me, or if I should keep an eye on these people because I am scared shitless that they are trying to talk themselves into planting bombs and turning their guns on their neighbor in the name of God and goodness.

I am serious. All this talk of “eugenics” is starting to sound like jealousy to me! Obviously they do not see “Darwinists” (for the love of Pete that’s just a word they invented to dehumanize people – replace it with “Jews” and see what happens) as “things bright and beautiful” either. Maybe they can get rid of “us”? After all it’s not eugenics if they do it, since it wouldn’t be abortion, but war (and God loves war). Get it? And it's not eugenics if it's a "global experiment", either.

The planet is not on fire but "we are the arsonists." Figure that out. And we want to do something about it because we're horrible monsters. Got it.

I'm sitting here at work thinking, Crap, these crazies know who and where I am.

Kristine - Please keep in mind this is "IDists" we are talking about, NOT Al Quida terrorists, or even your garden variety, run of the mill Islamic Terrorists...

Given the quality of their ideas, positions, past successes and communication skills, I don't think you should be concerned.  

You people of the female persuasion just need to watch more Three Stooges, and mentally subsitute Dembski, DaveScot and Sal for Larry, Moe and Curley.  (You could throw in Denyse to represent Shep... come to think of it, they both look to share certain genetic characteristics...)

Bottom line, I think Larry, Moe and Dembski would have trouble getting laid at a "bordello", and although they may be mentally scarry, the only physical fear is that
1.) You might catch their cooties if they touch you and
2.) You might get hit in the head with that ladder they are waving about.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,13:14   

Quote
Is the modern Darwinist typically a eugenicist? No, not typically, and that is something that has always puzzled me.


Same old shit. "I'm SO disappointed that Darwianians/atheists/liberals aren't murdering amoral nihilists! If their belief system was at all coherent, they would be!"

Never once does the thought cross their minds: "my feverish theories always fail to be born out by reality. Maybe I'm full of shit on this?"

Ho hum. More burbling from the World's Dumbest Canadian.

   
Quote
Yeah, I just read your post and I'm doing all the feeling - #### straight. I'm fucking terrified


Denyse is just an untalented, pretentious dimbulb who won't get a real job. She does not deserve to be taken seriously, much less your terror, Kristine.

The IDers aren't smart enough to put together an aquarium, much less a surveillance program.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,13:23   

Quote (wintermute @ April 03 2007,05:53)
   
Quote (Kristine @ April 03 2007,00:24)
Here's something people at UD should get pissed about, since they're talking about global warming and green houses and such. I believe in paying taxes, but they're taxing these people's efforts. If fuel is practically non-polluting and they make it, why shouldn't it be free?

That link seems not to work.  :(

Deep breath.

Here's the story, since the link now doesn't work for me, either.
 
Quote
State will tax men's homemade car fuel
Pioneer Press

The state Department of Revenue informed two men it will tax their homemade fuel, three days after the pair's strategy was featured in a local newspaper.

Steven Griesbach and Paul Simon, of Manitowoc, said the letters they received indicate they would owe state fuel tax on any fuel they make and burn in their vehicles.

"I'm going to still (make biofuel), but I'm not too happy about the whole thing," said Simon, who has been burning a modified form of vegetable oil in his 1982 diesel-powered Mercedes-Benz 240D for two years.

Vegetable oil converted to motor-vehicle fuel is considered a biodiesel, which is taxable under state law, said Meredith Helgerson, spokeswoman for the Revenue Department.

- Associated Press
Stephen Elliot, I doubt that you ever engaged in this vicarious-living-through-"Darwinist"-eugenics-as-a-means-of-wishing-"Darwin
ists"-dead, as they are doing.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,13:30   

Quote (J-Dog @ April 03 2007,13:11)
...
Given the quality of their ideas, positions, past successes and communication skills, I don't think you should be concerned.  

You people of the female persuasion just need to watch more Three Stooges, and mentally subsitute Dembski, DaveScot and Sal for Larry, Moe and Curley.  (You could throw in Denyse to represent Shep... come to think of it, they both look to share certain genetic characteristics...)

Bottom line, I think Larry, Moe and Dembski would have trouble getting laid at a "bordello", and although they may be mentally scarry, the only physical fear is that
1.) You might catch their cooties if they touch you and
2.) You might get hit in the head with that ladder they are waving about.

LOL :D
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 03 2007,13:14)

Denyse is just an untalented, pretentious dimbulb who won't get a real job. She does not deserve to be taken seriously, much less your terror, Kristine.

The IDers aren't smart enough to put together an aquarium, much less a surveillance program.

Narvelous!  :D

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,13:44   

Quote (Kristine @ April 03 2007,13:23)
...Stephen Elliot, I doubt that you ever engaged in this vicarious-living-through-"Darwinist"-eugenics-as-a-means-of-wishing-"Darwin

ists"-dead, as they are doing.

You are quite right. I haven't.
But I have spent a fair-few years in environments where death threats where both blatant and quite serious.
Northern Ireland was the worst. I managed to get myself threatened by both sides over there.

The death threats by these religio lunatics seem quite tame in comparison. It would be a tragedy if they managed to "get" a few of us by unlawfull acts. It would be a disaster if the got the political power to do it through law! In the latter case we would probably be better off being done early.

However, that said, I expect them to remain as limp as "ID as science". They really are buffoons.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4230
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,14:21   

Quote
Darwinists, eugenicists, and new stories at The Mindless Hack
O'Leary

Recently,there was a bit of correspondence between moderators of our list about the question of whether aggressive Darwinists can be accused of being like Nazis.

I don't know that Uncommonly Denyse has ever extruded a stranger stack of words.  

If I understand her correctly, modern Darwinists are neither racist, nor support eugenics.  Early Darwinists were and did, but they wouldn't have had they been truly consistent Darwinists, so this is a good time to remind us that Darwinists have been compared to Nazis...

No, scratch that.  

She doesn't mind if Darwinists are scrutinized and their "actions recorded" because they aren't racist...

Uh, scratch that.

Darwinism taken at its word should produce all that is good and golden, but it doesn't, so Darwinists should believe in eugenics, but they don't, and they tend to be moral, so they are inconsistent...

Wait, scratch that.  

Modern Darwinists should support eugenics, but they don't, so they are inconsistent, but eugenics doesn't really follow from Darwinism...

Scratch that.  

Up Next: Uncommonly Denyse holds forth on Consciousness, the Unsolved Problem...

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

  
2ndclass



Posts: 182
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,14:24   

What in the world has gotten into DaveScot?
Quote
Ilion is no longer with us. His first comment here included the rather grandiose claim that he is certain he can show us modern evolutionary theory is false. His subsequent comments have been large on claims and short on substance. We wish him luck and await his Nobel prize for disproving ToE but won’t be holding our collective breath in the interim.

Since when are grandiose, substance-free claims against the ToE considered a bad thing at UD?

--------------
"I wasn't aware that classical physics had established a position on whether intelligent agents exercising free were constrained by 2LOT into increasing entropy." -DaveScot

  
steve_h



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,14:27   

Dembski writes
 
Quote
This book takes the level invective, namecalling, and sexual obsession (while abnegating intellectual content) among our Darwinist critics to a new low.

Of course ID proponents would never do that. Oops, no wait, the whole thing was just an excuse to add "and PZ is the lowest of the low".
 
Quote
But the important question here is, can they go still lower? I’d like to encourage P. Z. Myers to try his hand at a full-length book treatment of ID.

  
jujuquisp



Posts: 129
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,15:29   

Quote


11

William Dembski

04/03/2007

9:19 am

With regard to these authors’ take on Revelation, C. S. Lewis wrote that if you don’t know how to read a book written for grown-ups, then you should leave well enough alone.

Some time back I wrote that it can be used to advantage that the other side thinks we’re such morons. Let me hasten to add that the preponderance of morons on the other side can also be used to advantage.


http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....e-of-id

HAHA.  
Dembski--such a hypocrite.
So, no matter what side a moron is from, he/she can be used to the advantage of ID.  HAHA.  Didn't think that statement through very much, did you Dr. Dr. Dumbski?

  
jujuquisp



Posts: 129
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,15:42   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....re-2215

In O'Bleary's latest post, let's point out how many grammatical errors there are.  For a "journalist" and an "author", she really has no clue how to construct paragraphs or even write complete sentences.  In addition, after reading her verbal vomit, I was left completely confused as to what her point was.  I reread certain passages a few times and still didn't get the gist of them.  Could it be that she is trying to relay concepts that are over my head?  Am I not really as smart as I think I am?

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,15:46   

Quote (jujuquisp @ April 03 2007,15:42)
http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....re-2215

In O'Bleary's latest post, let's point out how many grammatical errors there are.  For a "journalist" and an "author", she really has no clue how to construct paragraphs or even write complete sentences.  In addition, after reading her verbal vomit, I was left completely confused as to what her point was.  I reread certain passages a few times and still didn't get the gist of them.  Could it be that she is trying to relay concepts that are over my head?  Am I not really as smart as I think I am?

Maybe she smokes really bad pot or something.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
JohnW



Posts: 2197
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,15:57   

Quote (steve_h @ April 03 2007,14:27)
Dembski writes
   
Quote
This book takes the level invective, namecalling, and sexual obsession (while abnegating intellectual content) among our Darwinist critics to a new low.

Of course ID proponents would never do that. Oops, no wait, the whole thing was just an excuse to add "and PZ is the lowest of the low".
   
Quote
But the important question here is, can they go still lower? I’d like to encourage P. Z. Myers to try his hand at a full-length book treatment of ID.

And who better to call for decorum and maturity than the Isaac Newton Of Farty Noises?

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
steve_h



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,16:20   

Quote (jujuquisp @ April 03 2007,22:29)
 
Quote


William Dembski
With regard to these authors’ take on Revelation, C. S. Lewis wrote that if you don’t know how to read a book written for grown-ups, then you should leave well enough alone.
Some time back I wrote that it can be used to advantage that the other side thinks we’re such morons. Let me hasten to add that the preponderance of morons on the other side can also be used to advantage.


http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....e-of-id

HAHA.  
Dembski--such a hypocrite.
So, no matter what side a moron is from, he/she can be used to the advantage of ID.  HAHA.  Didn't think that statement through very much, did you Dr. Dr. Dumbski?

He didn't say there are morons on the ID side - merely that evolution supporters (presumably wrongly) believe that there are. However he does believe that a significant proportion of the evo side are morons (and name callers) who can't read books written for grown ups . But that doesn't make him a hypocrite.

  
jujuquisp



Posts: 129
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,16:30   

Quote
He didn't say there are morons on the ID side - merely that evolution supporters (presumably wrongly) believe that there are. However he does believe that a significant proportion of the evo side are morons (and name callers) who can't read books written for grown ups . But that doesn't make him a hypocrite.


I'm sorry, you're right.  That statement alone doesn't make him a hypocrite, even though he is a hypocrite.  He does like to throw around epithets describing the side of truth which is hypocritical when you're a supposed Xian.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,16:36   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 03 2007,12:14)
Denyse is just an untalented, pretentious dimbulb who won't get a real job. She does not deserve to be taken seriously, much less your terror, Kristine.

The IDers aren't smart enough to put together an aquarium, much less a surveillance program.
Intelligent design is about the future, not the past. It's about controlling the future by controlling information about the past.

They talk about eugenics because they want to engage in it – their way.
They talk about the big bad scientific establishment because they want to build their own monolithic establishment – their way.
They talk about persecution because they want to administer their own brand of Christian dominionism. They talk about overthrowing an ostensibly oppressive government because in truth it’s not oppressive enough, and they could do that better.
They talk about the “nihilism” of atheists because they need an excuse to enjoy the pleasure of hurting or killing someone, who first must be completely dehumanized.
Dembski simultaneously lowers the limbo bar and asks, “How low can they go?” because it is he who lowers himself and who wants to lower himself.

If you locate the mind and “truth” and science in a non-material realm, then you have full power to flog the physical for the good of everyone’s soul.
You can tell the starving that they need to pray harder.
You can tell the sick that it’s all because of their sins.
You can bring back public executions in a perpetual mission to kill the devil, and confiscate your opponent’s property at the same time.
Etc., etc., etc.

Look, I know Denyse and Dembski and DaveScot and all of that gang aren’t going to do anything themselves. They’re not stupid. But they, Dembski particularly, portray themselves as the leaders of a youth movement. Let’s take the American Nazi Party and white supremacists as an example, since Denyse likes to talk about them so much. The leaders have always remained untouchable whenever some follower went out and committed a hate crime, or killed someone: “Oh, we don’t tell anyone to resort to violence. They did this all on their own.” At the same time applauding the removal of the inconvenient opponent and letting their lower minion be the fall guy.

It’s the next generation that I worry about.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
steve_h



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,18:09   

I think you could be over-reacting a little Kristine.  Calm down and count to 10 (thousand if necessary).  Leave the drinking to people like me and SteveStory who become more attractive and sophisticated after a few percents.  There have always been opinionated people and people who get a bit carried away with the invective but I don't think they are all out to crush us all under some jackboot or other.
(OK, there's DS with his "nudge nudge, wink wink, I wouldn't be surprised if the Kitzmiller pupils got beaten up" message to the kids at Dover and his "maybe PZ will beat himself up" hint to any thugs in Morris. But DS has always been a bit special ) :)

  
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,18:30   

Quote (2ndclass @ April 03 2007,15:24)
What in the world has gotten into DaveScot?
 
Quote
Ilion is no longer with us. His first comment here included the rather grandiose claim that he is certain he can show us modern evolutionary theory is false. His subsequent comments have been large on claims and short on substance. We wish him luck and await his Nobel prize for disproving ToE but won’t be holding our collective breath in the interim.

Since when are grandiose, substance-free claims against the ToE considered a bad thing at UD?

Davetard banned as many people yesterday as I have in 9 months as moderator.

   
2ndclass



Posts: 182
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,18:37   

DaveScot pulls out his chalkboard and presumes to lecture Pixie, who, unlike DaveScot, knows what he's talking about.
 
Quote
In general 2LoT applies to gradients of all kinds.
Wrong.  
Quote
It also applies to information gradients.
In general, wrong.  
Quote
Intelligent processes can create information gradients. For instance - absent intelligence the library of congress, a highly ordered set of information, would not exist with only energy from the sun input into the system and no intelligent agency directing how that energy is utilized to decrease entropy.
So, according to Dave, the 2LoT applies to information, but intelligent agents can decrease information entropy, thus violating the 2LoT.  Dave has been making a fool of himself for over a year with this assertion, but he seems unconcerned.

--------------
"I wasn't aware that classical physics had established a position on whether intelligent agents exercising free were constrained by 2LOT into increasing entropy." -DaveScot

  
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,18:47   

Quote (2ndclass @ April 03 2007,19:37)
DaveScot pulls out his chalkboard and presumes to lecture Pixie, who, unlike DaveScot, knows what he's talking about.
   
Quote
In general 2LoT applies to gradients of all kinds.
Wrong.    
Quote
It also applies to information gradients.
In general, wrong.  
Quote
Intelligent processes can create information gradients. For instance - absent intelligence the library of congress, a highly ordered set of information, would not exist with only energy from the sun input into the system and no intelligent agency directing how that energy is utilized to decrease entropy.
So, according to Dave, the 2LoT applies to information, but intelligent agents can decrease information entropy, thus violating the 2LoT.  Dave has been making a fool of himself for over a year with this assertion, but he seems unconcerned.

My only formal training being in physics, and not biology, it's especially amusing for me to watch them play physicist.

   
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,18:49   

Kristine sez:
 
Quote
I believe in paying taxes, but they're taxing these people's efforts. If fuel is practically non-polluting and they make it, why shouldn't it be free?

Fuel taxes pay for roads, it's really a form of road-use tax.  Mileage, for instance, is worse for heavier vehicles than for lighter vehicles (ignoring differences in technology such as hybrid powerplants).  Heavier vehicles also cause more wear-and-tear on roads.

Oregon also taxes biodiesel made by organizations such as Portland's Biodiesel Collective IF it is used to power a vehicle on public roads.

Likewise, Oregon (and many other states) don't tax fuels, conventional or otherwise, if they are NOT used to power a vehicle on public roads, i.e. for ag use.

There's really no reason for someone not to pay what is in essence a road use tax just because they make their own fuel ...

  
2ndclass



Posts: 182
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,18:54   

Looking back at one of Dave's early forays into thermo, I find this gem:
Quote
Could be the problem with all the Sewell detractors is that it takes a genius to know one.
Which is exactly why Dave mistakes Sewell for a genius.

--------------
"I wasn't aware that classical physics had established a position on whether intelligent agents exercising free were constrained by 2LOT into increasing entropy." -DaveScot

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,18:55   

Quote (stevestory @ April 03 2007,19:30)
Quote (2ndclass @ April 03 2007,15:24)
What in the world has gotten into DaveScot?
 
Quote
Ilion is no longer with us. His first comment here included the rather grandiose claim that he is certain he can show us modern evolutionary theory is false. His subsequent comments have been large on claims and short on substance. We wish him luck and await his Nobel prize for disproving ToE but won’t be holding our collective breath in the interim.

Since when are grandiose, substance-free claims against the ToE considered a bad thing at UD?

Davetard banned as many people yesterday as I have in 9 months as moderator.

I call BS.  There's no way you've banned that many people.

  
2ndclass



Posts: 182
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,19:08   

Dave's excuse #439 for deleting comments:  
Quote
As a general rule any comment that starts out with the theme “I don’t expect this to get posted because disagreement isn’t tolerated” I consider to be a death wish and I grant the wish.

Tune in tomorrow when Dave tells us that he has to use the delete button at least once an hour to keep it from getting rusty.

--------------
"I wasn't aware that classical physics had established a position on whether intelligent agents exercising free were constrained by 2LOT into increasing entropy." -DaveScot

  
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,19:11   

Quote (GCT @ April 03 2007,19:55)
Quote (stevestory @ April 03 2007,19:30)
Quote (2ndclass @ April 03 2007,15:24)
What in the world has gotten into DaveScot?
   
Quote
Ilion is no longer with us. His first comment here included the rather grandiose claim that he is certain he can show us modern evolutionary theory is false. His subsequent comments have been large on claims and short on substance. We wish him luck and await his Nobel prize for disproving ToE but won’t be holding our collective breath in the interim.

Since when are grandiose, substance-free claims against the ToE considered a bad thing at UD?

Davetard banned as many people yesterday as I have in 9 months as moderator.

I call BS.  There's no way you've banned that many people.

LOL. Yeah, all I know is that he banned at least one person. Often he bans multiple people per day. Once in a while UD or OE will ban a dozen or more people in a day. Moderation here takes very little time. I could probably do it in 15 minutes a day. Which is good, because I'm very busy. Somewhere like Uncommonly Dense, you need a retiree like Davetard, because you have to ban people and prohibit comments round the clock. If you remember, prior to Davetard becoming moderator, when Dembski was doing it, in late 2005 we speculated that he'd have to make a change, because banning people and prohibiting comments was taking up so much of his time.

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,19:43   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ April 03 2007,14:21)
Quote
Darwinists, eugenicists, and new stories at The Mindless Hack
O'Leary

Recently,there was a bit of correspondence between moderators of our list about the question of whether aggressive Darwinists can be accused of being like Nazis.

I don't know that Uncommonly Denyse has ever extruded a stranger stack of words.  

If I understand her correctly, modern Darwinists are neither racist, nor support eugenics.  Early Darwinists were and did, but they wouldn't have had they been truly consistent Darwinists, so this is a good time to remind us that Darwinists have been compared to Nazis...

No, scratch that.  

She doesn't mind if Darwinists are scrutinized and their "actions recorded" because they aren't racist...

Uh, scratch that.

Darwinism taken at its word should produce all that is good and golden, but it doesn't, so Darwinists should believe in eugenics, but they don't, and they tend to be moral, so they are inconsistent...

Wait, scratch that.  

Modern Darwinists should support eugenics, but they don't, so they are inconsistent, but eugenics doesn't really follow from Darwinism...

Scratch that.  

Up Next: Uncommonly Denyse holds forth on Consciousness, the Unsolved Problem...

Denyse just forgot to translate her thoughts from Canadian to Real American, and the discount today is @ 12.125%.  This of course means that instead of her ideas being "slightly off the wall", in reality her ideas are  totally over the edge.  

She has segued from a Luskinized Littany of Lies, into a  Half-Hovind and then to a Total "Father Moon" Wells".

Bottom line:  We're trying to close the wrong bedamed border!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2593
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,19:58   

DaveScot blogs, Another Icon of Evolution Bites the Dust - Antibiotic Resistance. And I thought IDers had no problem with microevolution. In any case, to support his assertion, DaveScot cites Alekshun & Levy. This Alekshun & Levy:

Quote (Alekshun @ Levy)
clinical improvements and widespread use and misuse of antibiotics have pushed evolution, allowing normally non-pathogenic strains to become infectious disease threats to human health.


These are the quotes from Alekshun & Levy's latest journal article that DaveScot indicated were pertinent.

Quote (Alekshun @ Levy)
Although classically attributed to chromosomal mutations, resistance is most commonly associated with extrachromosomal elements acquired from other bacteria in the environment

Most, not all. The classic Lederberg lab experiment, repeated daily in universities around the world, starts with clonal bacteria, and demonstrates that occasional genetic mutations result in antibiotic resistance, and that such mutations occur whether the bacteria are exposed to antibiotics or not. That is, the mutations are random with respect to the environment. It's also known that bacteria exchange genes through lateral transfer. The success of these bacteria is predictably dependent on environmental selection.

Quote (Alekshun @ Levy)
The means that microbes use to evade antibiotics certainly predate and outnumber the therapeutic interventions themselves.

That's expected as most antibiotics are naturally occurring products, often found in moulds. None of this changes the fact that evolution is at work, as Alekshun & Levy point out, and that bacterial evolution is of critical importance to modern medicine.

DaveScot    
Quote
Experiments were purported to have “proven” that antibiotic resistance evolves de novo. Talkorigins makes this claim in multiple places. Therein lies the dead icon.

Antibiotic resistance can be achieved by horizontal acquisition of resistance genes, by recombination, or by even a single nucleotide substitution.

--------------
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4230
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2007,20:02   

Quote (J-Dog @ April 03 2007,19:43)
Denyse just forgot to translate her thoughts from Canadian to Real American, and the discount today is @ 12.125%.  This of course means that instead of her ideas being "slightly off the wall", in reality her ideas are  totally over the edge.  

She has segued from a Luskinized Littany of Lies, into a  Half-Hovind and then to a Total "Father Moon" Wells".

Bottom line:  We're trying to close the wrong bedamed border!

Her thoughts march around within a stone fortress like figures etched by M.C. Escher, ever climbing but never ascending, exhausting to follow but leading nowhere.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

  
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