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carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,10:21   

Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,10:16)
It's Febble, not Feeble, and that's elizabeth's screen name at most forums.

She is anything but feeble. She is a goddamn ninja.

By the way, BWE, you might wish to get your eyes checked. You missed the sign at the door over there.



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,10:27   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Dec. 01 2011,06:23)
Quote (Robin @ Dec. 01 2011,08:15)
Ok...I went searching around, but could not find Feeble in the comments at Pharyngula. I have popcorn and beer all set. Where's the show?

This is the blog post.  Febble is posting under the name elizabethliddle and her contributions start at comment 621.

Be sure to read page 2, where you can feast on the irony of PZ banning BWE for flying into a rage.

Heh. I used a secret code that made my argument invisible to PZ but visible to anyone else.  He really had no choice. Now he is going to have to debate me. :)

Not only that, but he doesn't realize that he has also provided the holy text (did you notice how they suddenly started added the word 'unchangeable' before 'holy text'?) a confirmation that he approves of the posts made there, and a definition of atheism which includes much. much more than not having a belief in gods.

How many of you are atheists by the new definition? How many still want to argue that fundamentalist atheism is not an appropriate name for what they are doing? How about whether they preach hate? How about whether they resemble a cult?

No?

Yeah. I guess they did a good job of demonstration. I would so like to troll skepticon.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,10:42   

Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,10:27)
I would so like to troll skepticon.

If you do, I will gladly buy you this to wear*:



* Yes, I am ripping the line off from a commenter at Talk Rational.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,10:45   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Dec. 01 2011,08:21)
Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,10:16)
It's Febble, not Feeble, and that's elizabeth's screen name at most forums.

She is anything but feeble. She is a goddamn ninja.

By the way, BWE, you might wish to get your eyes checked. You missed the sign at the door over there.


Wait.  :O

I haven't actually read the fallout yet. Only the TR commentary. Am I actually banned?

I hope none of them take me up on my hasty and foolish offer to debate. I would so be made to look dumb and ignorant.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,10:51   

Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,10:45)

I haven't actually read the fallout yet. Only the TR commentary. Am I actually banned?

Technically, no.
Quote
No more. Go duck your head in some cold water and cool off. DO NOT RETURN to this thread. If I see you posting in this thread again, you will be banned.

If you resume this manic irrational behavior in any other thread, you will be banned.

I hope that’s clear enough.


But, you cannot go back until you understand what you did wrong and can act like a proper young lady.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,11:19   

Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,10:16)
It's Febble, not Feeble, and that's elizabeth's screen name at most forums.

D'oh! I'm sorry Lizzie! (oh noes! What if she doesn't it accept it because it came from my perceived privilege posting on a message board!)

And on that note:

Quote
I’m saying that accepting that the content of an apology is, and then saying you refuse to accept the apology, is an oxymoron, and that saying you refuse to “forgive” someone, when what you seem actually to mean is that you still find his views (as you assume the still are) repugnant, ...


This! This is what basically ran through my head when I first read Louis' comment on the subject. Just wish I could have phrased it so well.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,11:27   

Lizzie is one of the smartest people I have ever encountered. I love discussing things with her but it's a fool who argues with her when they think she is refusing to understand.

People who want to understand are imossible for people who want to win to understand. :)

And fuck PZ. He had it coming. I am waiting for him to apologize for being wrong. I will, of course, accept it and move on. But I am no longer willing to call myself an atheist because my lack of belief in a deity has exactly nothing to do with my opposition to creationism in science class.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,11:47   

Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,07:56)
I just had a chance to get to the part where BWE gets banned.  hahahahahahaha...omg.  PZ bans (puts up a sign against skepticon) him from his little blog (ice cream shop) because he feels insulted.  

Oh, this is unbelievably entertaining.  Honestly, PZ is nuts.  Someone has to just come out an say it.  The man needs meds.  He really, really does.  And, the Skepticon folks and PZ's followers?...scary...very, very scary.

Is that really Elizabeth Little?  Someone said it's "Feeble" writing as EL.  Whomever it is, she/he certainly is blowing them all out of the water without using any of their own special debate skills of ridicule and mockery.  They all look ridiculous cursing and mocking her.  Might think of getting her to be your spokesperson for atheism.  Kick that 'ol PZ out the door and all his hateful followers with him.

It's Liddle, not Little. And atheism doesn't need a spokesman. In fact, a spokesman for atheism is a catch-22.

This just occurred to me. FtK, does my lack of belief in gods bother you just as a state of being?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,11:53   

Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,11:27)
Lizzie is one of the smartest people I have ever encountered. I love discussing things with her but it's a fool who argues with her when they think she is refusing to understand.

People who want to understand are imossible for people who want to win to understand. :)

Quite apart from all the hysterics going on in various corners of teh intertubez over this, I found some thought provoking notions in what Elizabeth was trying to convey with regard to the various elements that compose forgiveness. There was an interesting conversation to be had there. I would have liked to see PZ respond to her on the topic.  But, I suppose you are right that anyone interested in winning* isn't going to be open to engaging the nuance in her comments.

Speaking for myself, I grew up in a nominally religious environment. My folks expected me to get confirmed in a church, even though they never attended.  So, I did get confirmed and,  once done, my obligations to attend church were also complete.  My agnosticism is just not that big of a part of who I am.  I view this whole "Gelatogate is serious business!" uproar much as I would view any other foreign (to me) cultural artifact ceremony.  With a mixture of fascination and befuddlement.

* Winning doesn't seem to be the right word, inasmuch as it implies there is a competition going on.  The folks at Pharyngula aren't acting as if they are participating in a marketplace of ideas.  Rather they seem to be trying to emetically purify their environment.  It is all so bizarre.

EDIT:  Changed a word to better convey my meaning.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,12:01   

this is a sign up list for the new post atheism movement. Your signature indicates that you may or may not believe in a deity or deities and that it is still a problem when people try to put pseudo science in science class or present false or intentionally misleading information in an attempt to influence people's beliefs.

All there is is information. Some is more useful than others. Challenge claims, not ideologies and the bulk of the associated problems disappear.

1. BWE

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,12:18   

Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,11:47)
Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,07:56)
I just had a chance to get to the part where BWE gets banned.  hahahahahahaha...omg.  PZ bans (puts up a sign against skepticon) him from his little blog (ice cream shop) because he feels insulted.  

Oh, this is unbelievably entertaining.  Honestly, PZ is nuts.  Someone has to just come out an say it.  The man needs meds.  He really, really does.  And, the Skepticon folks and PZ's followers?...scary...very, very scary.

Is that really Elizabeth Little?  Someone said it's "Feeble" writing as EL.  Whomever it is, she/he certainly is blowing them all out of the water without using any of their own special debate skills of ridicule and mockery.  They all look ridiculous cursing and mocking her.  Might think of getting her to be your spokesperson for atheism.  Kick that 'ol PZ out the door and all his hateful followers with him.

It's Liddle, not Little. And atheism doesn't need a spokesman. In fact, a spokesman for atheism is a catch-22.

This just occurred to me. FtK, does my lack of belief in gods bother you just as a state of being?

You mean does it bother me as in make me hate or dislike you simply because you don't believe in God?  Not at all..honestly, not one tiny bit.  The only way it "bothers" me is that I wish atheists would reconsider their position in regard to God.  Obviously, I've love for people to come to the realization that there is a higher power.  

So, when I meet an atheist, yeah it bothers me a tad in that regard.  It's hard to explain really.  It's a feeling I get when someone tells me they are an atheist...just kinda a dull feeling in the pit of my stomach.  But, it's not dislike or hate.  Sometimes it's even deep regret I feel for what religious people may have done to them that caused them to reject God.

The stuff that is written in the name of atheism on blogs and in groups, etc. certainly bothers me.  I've grown very thick skin over the years, but when I first entered this debate, I was honestly ~horrified~ by PZ and his followers.

He's gotten a lot worse, but I guess I've just grown used to what it is he stands for.  He certainly is NOT a benefit to the atheist cause.  

I like Elizabeth's approach for the most part.  Have seen her over at UD a lot.  She quite decent, and tries to back up her comments with content not mere vulgarity.

Here's something I'll bring up too just because.  All those articles on PZ's blog about "Why I became and Atheist" are really lame, imho.  I'd hope that most thinking atheists have much better reasons to reject religion than those I've seen.

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,12:41   

I had to laugh at this one:
Quote
BWE, you’re a flaming idiot, straining against all evidence to claim that this instance of a christian attempting to discriminate against a group of people because they expressed contempt for christianity is somehow NOT an instance of a christian attempting to discriminate against a group of people because they expressed contempt for christianity. You’ve gone around and around the subject, getting angrier and crazier comment by comment, and finally you’re raging like this:

   You stupid blind fucker. No shit atheists are on the schedule. A bunch of self styled morons in tights saving the world by mocking fundies and trying to lose their virginity. But that only represents the class ‘atheist’ to the stupid fucker who actually paid money to go watch unfunny comics and ex-scientists turned cult leaders so they could finally be part of a group. And more power to them. Everyone needs someone. But they are a bunch of numbnuts at a nerd convention, not the face of atheism.

   Jesus fucking christ. You aren’t a liar. You are a fucking moron.

   And PZ knows it too and it scares the shit out of him that one of you paying rubes might develop your own self esteem someday because true believers are hard to find for washed up biologists who turned to running a cult to supplement their income and maybe feel important.

   Alright. Fuck it. Febble’s right. Too much hate.

   I’ll reserve myself to posting a couple links to your more insane shit.


--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,12:51   

OMG. The argument with Pavlov's Dog has potential. Wouldn't it be funny if he turned out to be a defense attorney or something like that. :)

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,12:52   

Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,09:56)
I just had a chance to get to the part where BWE gets banned.  hahahahahahaha...omg.  PZ bans (puts up a sign against skepticon) him from his little blog (ice cream shop) because he feels insulted.  

Oh, this is unbelievably entertaining.  Honestly, PZ is nuts.  Someone has to just come out an say it.  The man needs meds.  He really, really does.  And, the Skepticon folks and PZ's followers?...scary...very, very scary.

Is that really Elizabeth Little?  Someone said it's "Feeble" writing as EL.  Whomever it is, she/he certainly is blowing them all out of the water without using any of their own special debate skills of ridicule and mockery.  They all look ridiculous cursing and mocking her.  Might think of getting her to be your spokesperson for atheism.  Kick that 'ol PZ out the door and all his hateful followers with him.

Have you considered this yet FTK? You are looking at absolute evidence that no "atheist conspiracy" actually exists. Atheists are arguing against one another about a Christian's actions/beliefs. This should blow out of the water all those ID/Creationist claims to a conspiracy. There isn't one.

Think again about how this is being done in full public view. Atheists do not follow a "party line". You can actually see that.

Perhaps, deep down inside yourself, you know this. Wasn't it this site you came to for advice when you where genuinely afraid about Japan's reactors?

Think about that. There are implications.

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:05   

Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,05:12)
* start here:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng....-201420

Has that thread been edited? I ask because when I looked, the 1st response seemed to be a reply to an earlier response. I can make no sense of it.

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:06   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Dec. 01 2011,08:51)
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Dec. 01 2011,08:34)
 
Quote (carlsonjok @ Dec. 01 2011,08:23)
...
Be sure to read page 2, where you can feast on the irony of PZ banning BWE for flying into a rage.

Just for that or was there additional stuff? If he banned everyone who got into a rage, there would be a sharp drop of regular posters.

ETA: I think irony should be hyporicy, if that is what happened.

Languagist!


Made me laugh.      :D

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:07   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Dec. 01 2011,10:52)
Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,09:56)
I just had a chance to get to the part where BWE gets banned.  hahahahahahaha...omg.  PZ bans (puts up a sign against skepticon) him from his little blog (ice cream shop) because he feels insulted.  

Oh, this is unbelievably entertaining.  Honestly, PZ is nuts.  Someone has to just come out an say it.  The man needs meds.  He really, really does.  And, the Skepticon folks and PZ's followers?...scary...very, very scary.

Is that really Elizabeth Little?  Someone said it's "Feeble" writing as EL.  Whomever it is, she/he certainly is blowing them all out of the water without using any of their own special debate skills of ridicule and mockery.  They all look ridiculous cursing and mocking her.  Might think of getting her to be your spokesperson for atheism.  Kick that 'ol PZ out the door and all his hateful followers with him.

Have you considered this yet FTK? You are looking at absolute evidence that no "atheist conspiracy" actually exists. Atheists are arguing against one another about a Christian's actions/beliefs. This should blow out of the water all those ID/Creationist claims to a conspiracy. There isn't one.

Think again about how this is being done in full public view. Atheists do not follow a "party line". You can actually see that.

Perhaps, deep down inside yourself, you know this. Wasn't it this site you came to for advice when you where genuinely afraid about Japan's reactors?

Think about that. There are implications.

This is actually a relevant point in this case. The reason I felt bent to do this is that no way am I ok with people trying to spread belief in anything. Presenting information does not equal a license to provide the official interpretation of that information.

I am seriously disturbed by what I saw at pharyngula. As I am at any example of an attempt to dictate truth. Religion included. It isn't that I have a problem with people believing things, it's that I have a problem with them acting in such a way as to force others to believe it.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is willing to throw sandbags when the river rises or donate blood after an earthquake or help me find my keys I dropped in the park is welcome at my house on thanksgiving.

And actually, if they tell me I should believe something, I consider their request. But when someone forcefully tries to convert others to a truth they get to define, I'm not ok with that. And that is what we had here today.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:09   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Dec. 01 2011,13:05)
Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,05:12)
* start here:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng....-201420

Has that thread been edited? I ask because when I looked, the 1st response seemed to be a reply to an earlier response. I can make no sense of it.

Down at the bottom you should see a link "Previous Comments" which will take you to the first 800.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:23   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Dec. 01 2011,12:52)
Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,09:56)
I just had a chance to get to the part where BWE gets banned.  hahahahahahaha...omg.  PZ bans (puts up a sign against skepticon) him from his little blog (ice cream shop) because he feels insulted.  

Oh, this is unbelievably entertaining.  Honestly, PZ is nuts.  Someone has to just come out an say it.  The man needs meds.  He really, really does.  And, the Skepticon folks and PZ's followers?...scary...very, very scary.

Is that really Elizabeth Little?  Someone said it's "Feeble" writing as EL.  Whomever it is, she/he certainly is blowing them all out of the water without using any of their own special debate skills of ridicule and mockery.  They all look ridiculous cursing and mocking her.  Might think of getting her to be your spokesperson for atheism.  Kick that 'ol PZ out the door and all his hateful followers with him.

Have you considered this yet FTK? You are looking at absolute evidence that no "atheist conspiracy" actually exists. Atheists are arguing against one another about a Christian's actions/beliefs. This should blow out of the water all those ID/Creationist claims to a conspiracy. There isn't one.

Think again about how this is being done in full public view. Atheists do not follow a "party line". You can actually see that.

Perhaps, deep down inside yourself, you know this. Wasn't it this site you came to for advice when you where genuinely afraid about Japan's reactors?

Think about that. There are implications.

Stephen, first of all, I'm don't think I've ever argued that there is an "atheist conspiracy".  If I have, I was being extremely emotion about the topic.  

Atheism is just like any other -ism.  There are vast differences in belief between people who might be considered to fall under one of them.  

Obviously, we know that PZ, the "four horsemen", et. al.  want religion to cease.  They feel it is their callilng to put an end to it, and thereby free the world to finally experience vast peace and understanding.  We know that will never occur, and they are fools, the lot of them.  Some might consider them conspiratorial, merely because they are a working force to stop religion at all cost.  I don't view them this way, but arguments could be made for it.  

Most home grown, run of the mill atheists aren't anti-theists.  They don't run to see Dawkins speak as if he were Billy Graham.  They don't slam religion at every turn.  They don't go to Skepticon conferences, etc..

You'll find the same thing in religious circles, of course.  All degrees of belief and acceptance of those beliefs.  There is bad religion...there is bad atheism.  This is why I still, to this day, view atheism as a religion.  I see no difference in actions, only in whether they believe in a God or not.  They still put their faith in something...it's just "science" or "naturalism".  It does take faith to be an atheist.  But, please, let's not argue that one again.  I'm just saying, my views haven't changed in that regard.  

I don't understand what I'm to think about?  What implications?  Why is it is so odd that I would come here looking for answers in regard to the Japan reactors?  There are scientists in this forum, correct?  I'm fairly comfortable posting here and asking questions.  What's the big deal?  You mean just because I don't agree with most of you in regard to ID/evolution, that I would think you know nothing????  What kind of sense does that make?  

I've gone to ERV's blog at least a couple times with questions directly related to HIV because that is her field.  I think she is good at what she does when she sticks to her field.  I've always found those posts helpful and interesting.  Do I therefore believe that she is accurate about every topic in the ID/evolution debate.  Of course not.

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:31   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Dec. 01 2011,13:09)
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Dec. 01 2011,13:05)
 
Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,05:12)
* start here:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng....-201420

Has that thread been edited? I ask because when I looked, the 1st response seemed to be a reply to an earlier response. I can make no sense of it.

Down at the bottom you should see a link "Previous Comments" which will take you to the first 800.

Thanks. I had no idea. I will look again tomorrow.


ASIDE: I remember Ichthyic"/"Sir Toe_Jam" from here and Panda's Thumb. He was one of the people who helped me go from Christian to Atheist. He is/was a working scientist.

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:32   

sigh...maybe for Christmas the holiday that happens in the month of December I'll finally get that edit button.

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:34   

Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,12:01)
this is a sign up list for the new post atheism movement. Your signature indicates that you may or may not believe in a deity or deities and that it is still a problem when people try to put pseudo science in science class or present false or intentionally misleading information in an attempt to influence people's beliefs.

All there is is information. Some is more useful than others. Challenge claims, not ideologies and the bulk of the associated problems disappear.

1. BWE

Personally, I refuse to be part of any movement concerning the belief (or lack there of) of deities and supernatural forces on principle, but it seems highly oxymoronic to join a movement that has an implied mission of being against a specific movement. In the words of Val Kilmer's Doc Holiday, my hypocrisy goes only so far.  

So, while I appreciate your idea and intent, BWE, I'm going to pass.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2153
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:42   

Quote (Robin @ Dec. 01 2011,11:34)
Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,12:01)
this is a sign up list for the new post atheism movement. Your signature indicates that you may or may not believe in a deity or deities and that it is still a problem when people try to put pseudo science in science class or present false or intentionally misleading information in an attempt to influence people's beliefs.

All there is is information. Some is more useful than others. Challenge claims, not ideologies and the bulk of the associated problems disappear.

1. BWE

Personally, I refuse to be part of any movement concerning the belief (or lack there of) of deities and supernatural forces on principle, but it seems highly oxymoronic to join a movement that has an implied mission of being against a specific movement. In the words of Val Kilmer's Doc Holiday, my hypocrisy goes only so far.  

So, while I appreciate your idea and intent, BWE, I'm going to pass.

Well, I'm founding a Hermit Club, you could join that.

Or our high-school team, Anarchists for Responsible Government.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2153
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:45   

Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,10:18)
(snip) Sometimes it's even deep regret I feel for what religious people may have done to them that caused them to reject God.(snip)

*sigh*.

No religious person did anything to me to cause me to reject God.

No Irish person did anything to me to cause me to reject leprechauns, either.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:49   

Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,13:23)
 
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Dec. 01 2011,12:52)
 
Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,09:56)
I just had a chance to get to the part where BWE gets banned.  hahahahahahaha...omg.  PZ bans (puts up a sign against skepticon) him from his little blog (ice cream shop) because he feels insulted.  

Oh, this is unbelievably entertaining.  Honestly, PZ is nuts.  Someone has to just come out an say it.  The man needs meds.  He really, really does.  And, the Skepticon folks and PZ's followers?...scary...very, very scary.

Is that really Elizabeth Little?  Someone said it's "Feeble" writing as EL.  Whomever it is, she/he certainly is blowing them all out of the water without using any of their own special debate skills of ridicule and mockery.  They all look ridiculous cursing and mocking her.  Might think of getting her to be your spokesperson for atheism.  Kick that 'ol PZ out the door and all his hateful followers with him.

Have you considered this yet FTK? You are looking at absolute evidence that no "atheist conspiracy" actually exists. Atheists are arguing against one another about a Christian's actions/beliefs. This should blow out of the water all those ID/Creationist claims to a conspiracy. There isn't one.

Think again about how this is being done in full public view. Atheists do not follow a "party line". You can actually see that.

Perhaps, deep down inside yourself, you know this. Wasn't it this site you came to for advice when you where genuinely afraid about Japan's reactors?

Think about that. There are implications.

Stephen, first of all, I'm don't think I've ever argued that there is an "atheist conspiracy".  If I have, I was being extremely emotion about the topic.  

One thing at a time, is that OK?

I am not claiming that YOU said there was an atheist conspiracy. I am claiming that UD/Creationist sites claim that. They use it as an excuse for why their "scientific" papers do not get published.

Can we argue this 1 point at a time? Or are you not comfortable with that idea?  

If you want to argue I will start a new thread as it is off-topic. If you don't, fine, I won't mention it again.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:53   

Quote (Robin @ Dec. 01 2011,13:34)
Personally, I refuse to be part of any movement concerning the belief (or lack there of) of deities and supernatural forces on principle, but it seems highly oxymoronic to join a movement that has an implied mission of being against a specific movement. In the words of Val Kilmer's Doc Holiday, my hypocrisy goes only so far.  

You are being dogmatic, Robin. Medical science has clearly proven that participating in a regular movement is part of a healthy lifestyle.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:56   

Quote (fnxtr @ Dec. 01 2011,13:45)
Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,10:18)
(snip) Sometimes it's even deep regret I feel for what religious people may have done to them that caused them to reject God.(snip)

*sigh*.

No religious person did anything to me to cause me to reject God.

No Irish person did anything to me to cause me to reject leprechauns, either.

I knew there would be this objection.  But, let me tell you, I've heard a LOT of atheists directly and vehemently blame religious people for their atheism.  

There are many reasons for how we arrive at our overall worldview, and they are all different.  But, don't disregard what I said just because you've never had any negative experiences with people of religion.  It happens all the time.  I've run across plenty of religious people myself who have made me rethink all my beliefs because of their hatefulness and/or hypocrisy.

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
BWE



Posts: 1896
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,13:59   

Quote (Robin @ Dec. 01 2011,11:34)
Quote (BWE @ Dec. 01 2011,12:01)
this is a sign up list for the new post atheism movement. Your signature indicates that you may or may not believe in a deity or deities and that it is still a problem when people try to put pseudo science in science class or present false or intentionally misleading information in an attempt to influence people's beliefs.

All there is is information. Some is more useful than others. Challenge claims, not ideologies and the bulk of the associated problems disappear.

1. BWE

Personally, I refuse to be part of any movement concerning the belief (or lack there of) of deities and supernatural forces on principle, but it seems highly oxymoronic to join a movement that has an implied mission of being against a specific movement. In the words of Val Kilmer's Doc Holiday, my hypocrisy goes only so far.  

So, while I appreciate your idea and intent, BWE, I'm going to pass.

sorry. The joke there was too subtle. My bad. But you managed to get it anyway.

Or maybe the meta got me. :)

I can't stop following the trainwreck. Let's see if anyone can spot the error here:

Quote
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says:
1 December 2011 at 12:43 pm

   What he does not have a legal right to do is discriminate against a protected class. Skepticon performers, attendees, and organizers are not a protected class.

Atheists are a protected class (considered the equivalent of a religion by SCOTUS), and all Andy’s crap shows he did his idiocy for religious reasons. You lose.


When doubt sets in, repeat the narrative until the doubt disappears.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,14:01   

Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,13:32)
sigh...maybe for Christmas the holiday that happens in the month of December I'll finally get that edit button.

You lost that EDIT button for a reason. Do you really want to bring that up again?

Anyway "Merry Christmas", I like it also. See that? I like CHRISTMAS.

Look at what I said on a "damn Christmas" board.

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2011,14:02   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Dec. 01 2011,13:49)
Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,13:23)
 
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Dec. 01 2011,12:52)
   
Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 01 2011,09:56)
I just had a chance to get to the part where BWE gets banned.  hahahahahahaha...omg.  PZ bans (puts up a sign against skepticon) him from his little blog (ice cream shop) because he feels insulted.  

Oh, this is unbelievably entertaining.  Honestly, PZ is nuts.  Someone has to just come out an say it.  The man needs meds.  He really, really does.  And, the Skepticon folks and PZ's followers?...scary...very, very scary.

Is that really Elizabeth Little?  Someone said it's "Feeble" writing as EL.  Whomever it is, she/he certainly is blowing them all out of the water without using any of their own special debate skills of ridicule and mockery.  They all look ridiculous cursing and mocking her.  Might think of getting her to be your spokesperson for atheism.  Kick that 'ol PZ out the door and all his hateful followers with him.

Have you considered this yet FTK? You are looking at absolute evidence that no "atheist conspiracy" actually exists. Atheists are arguing against one another about a Christian's actions/beliefs. This should blow out of the water all those ID/Creationist claims to a conspiracy. There isn't one.

Think again about how this is being done in full public view. Atheists do not follow a "party line". You can actually see that.

Perhaps, deep down inside yourself, you know this. Wasn't it this site you came to for advice when you where genuinely afraid about Japan's reactors?

Think about that. There are implications.

Stephen, first of all, I'm don't think I've ever argued that there is an "atheist conspiracy".  If I have, I was being extremely emotion about the topic.  

One thing at a time, is that OK?

I am not claiming that YOU said there was an atheist conspiracy. I am claiming that UD/Creationist sites claim that. They use it as an excuse for why their "scientific" papers do not get published.

Can we argue this 1 point at a time? Or are you not comfortable with that idea?  

If you want to argue I will start a new thread as it is off-topic. If you don't, fine, I won't mention it again.

I did not completely understand your question, evidently.

If you're referring only to UD/creationists sites stating that there is often a reason why their papers don't get published.  I'd agree.  I don't think this is equivalent to stating they believe there is an evil "atheist conspiracy".  

No, I don't want to debate this again.  I've said everything that could be said on this topic more than enough times.  Redundancy is painful after a while.

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
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