Joined: Jan. 2008
KF seems a little bit upset. Apparently, the guy from The IDiots of Intelligent Design has asked for photos of some of the UD regulars.
For what it's worth, I think that is a tad creepy. If it were the other way around, if someone from UD would search around for a picture of me, I wouldn't like that, either.
But KF goes into complete paranoia overdrive and out the other side. In less than 36 hours he wrote at least 7 increasingly hysterical comments, in which for example he's more or less accusing dmullenix of inducing others to violence:
|And, given the recent example of Breivik, and the matters that have come up in this thread from here on, I think DM and others of like ilk who resort to moral monster and theocracy accusation rhetoric or the like, should pause and think very carefully indeed on what the more unhinged on their side of the fence may be tempted to through such intemperate and irresponsible rhetoric.|
DM's "moral monster":
|7: “(iii) but it is impossible that the God of the Bible could exist, because He is a “moral monster”;|
(iv) hence, the cosmological fine-tuning argument is not true.
This is a pathological form of reasoning, since it is emotionally driven by a visceral dislike of the God of the Bible. Nevertheless, I believe this form of reasoning is quite common among atheists.”
Not really. The Bible does make God out to be a moral monster – dooming humanity because of the sins of the first two humans, killing everybody on earth save eight because of the Hitlerian claim that they were all evil, hardening Pharaoh’s heart so He could continue to torment Egypt in order to show off His powers, punishing David for seducing Bathsheba and murdering her husband by killing their baby, finding Himself somehow unable to forgive the human race until He’d had His own Son tortured to death – but atheists tend not to believe the Bible. Personally, I think the only thing God could really be blamed for in the above list is killing the baby. The Fall, the Flood and the Exodus are mythical.
Our objections are based on the universe as we find it. It’s about what we’d expect if materialism is true – but if it was DESIGNED, then there is a DESIGNER and that designer truly is a moral monster. Why Christians want to blame this universe on your God is beyond me.
So, the moral monster DM talks about (and which is a quote from the OP) is the designer, if he existed. If we follow KF's "logic", the unhinged among us should now want to kill god. On the other hand, we that we have "no defence against Nietzschean nihilism" know that God is already dead, so that doesn't seem to be very likely.
Some more choice bits from KF's comments, just to see who's using the "intemperate and irresponsible" rethoricising...
|I am taking this opportunity, in one of the leading ID blogs, to say that there is an ugly, potentially dangerous side to the objection to ID movement, and it is high time that responsible people on that side who have more direct access to the sort of individuals in view, took time to police them.|
Before something horrible happens.
And if you are tempted to dismiss this, jut think about names like Harris, Klebold and Brevik, among others. What I am seeing above is target-painting behaviour, and it is beyond any reasonable or responsible behaviour on this topic.
|Thanks for the alert.|
TARGETTING BEHAVIOUR, JOINED TO THE SORT OF PROJECTION OF WANTING TO “TAKE OVER” THE WORLD (GUESS WHO ARE THEREBY INADVERTENTLY CONFESSING TO ALREADY CONTROLLING THE WORLD BY ASSOCIATION WITH THE HIGH PRIESTHOOD OF MATERIALIST/”RATIONAL[IST]” SCIENTISTS . . .), IN THE HANDS OF THE EXCESSIVELY ANGRY AND NIHILISTIC, IS QUITE DANGEROUS.
We are only just beginning to learn some of the dangers of a webbed world.
Breivik should be a lesson, and a clear warning of what can be going on on the fringes. So let us resolve not to foment hate or dehumanise and demonise the “other.”
|It is not only design thinkers who need to address this, those who lead the anti-ID movement, if they are at all responsible, must police their own movement and clean up their act. Before further abuse, or violence or bloodshed comes of it.|
|In this context, the moral monster talking point Dr Torley highlighted in the original post is particularly irresponsible. When the advocates who use it are themselves rooted in a worldview, evo mat, that has in it no IS that can ground OUGHT, thus no defence against Nietzschean nihilism, then there is a dilemma. |
|These are the challenges that promoters of atheistical, angry, evolutionary materialism that holds science hostage as an a priori, would distract us from by focussing ill-deserved outrage elsewhere through unjust, strawmannish caricatures.|
So, it is high time that we held such accountable for their wanton arguments and willfully mischievous, hostility-stirring slanderous misbehaviour and blatant painting of targets on those they object to.
|Namely, through willful misrepresentation, demonisation and unhinged hostility that is now seeing itself as justified in painting targets on people’s backs.|
This must stop.
And, abusing the general consensus on morality to try to push God in the dock through willful scripture-twisting [the correctives are there for all to find, if they have even a modicum of good will] thence those who seek to adhere to him, is wrong.
To demonise and then take opportunity of so dehumanising the other, to play at outing individuals, their families and locations, then now posting up mug shorts, the better to guide the unhinges who might want to do violence, is inexcusable.[...]
Have we learned anything from Breivik and all the way back to Columbine?
Oh, looky here, now KF accuses MarkF of enabling the guy, presumably by not having precognition.
|But, as a first note, before dealing later on with specifics, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT THIS THREAD’S DISCUSSION IS IN THE DIRECT CONTEXT OF FURTHER TARGET PAINTING BEHAVIOUR BY SOMEONE WHO WAS BASED AT YOUR BLOG AS A REGULAR COMMENTER, AND WHO WENT ON TO FOUND THE HATE BLOG THAT HAS AGAIN COME UP FOR CONCERN HERE AT UD.|
I think that puts a particular burden on those on you4r side of the ID debate, to police those who are on the unhinged extremism side. For they are unwilling to listen to correction from those on our side.
|In my case, some one out there is targetting me, is falsely accusing me of child abuse, is saying menacingly “we know you, we know where you are, we know those you care for,” and is now backing this up by posting pictures — talk about targetting!|
And, with further false accusations.
Someone who was coddled at MF’s site, and not restrained before he went utterly out of control.
At the same time, we see outright declarations that the God of the Bible is a moral monster, and those who follow him are ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked would-be tyrannical Christo-fascist theocrats and child abusers.
It's all Dawkins fault:
|Plainly, some one out there — Dawkins and ilk — thinks he can smear people and build up morally driven rage against them by appealing to precisely the moral absolutes that he denies when they would cut in ways that he does not want.|
The end of such a pattern is predictable on all too much history: violence and blood as ruthless nihilist factions vie for power, and worse, if they gain it.
Just ask the ghosts of 100 million victims of evolutionary materialist tyrannies over the past 100 years.
|The evolutionary materialists, from 400 BC on, have always begun with chaos in the heavens that is imagined to somehow give rise to the things that are ordered, and this leads them to radical relativism and might makes “right” amorality. Thence come factions and from factions come chaos in the community, and tyranny.|
But always, it is ever so hard to believe that things are that bad in our time and place, until the horrors are let lose with full force.
|But, we had better believe the magnitude of the danger in front of us, the depth of the moral bankruptcy and anarchy that have been revealed before our watching eyes and take decisive, grimly determined resolute, corrective action.|
Before it is horribly, bloodily too late.
Just read that again: But, we had better believe the magnitude of the danger in front of us, the depth of the moral bankruptcy and anarchy that have been revealed before our watching eyes and take decisive, grimly determined resolute, corrective action.
There you have it. KF WANTS TO KILL US ALL!
Oh, wait, I'm not the paranoid whackjob here.
Seriously, though, who is demonising whom, again?
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner