Joined: Nov. 2005
|Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Oct. 26 2005,14:45)|
|I really do believe that if Hitler had been the Catholic he pretended to be (regarding his beliefs, that is: I think he was actually a neopagan), he would not have ordered the Holocaust.|
I'm sorry. I just can't let this pass.
How very convinient and comforting a belief this must be for you. "Phew," you say, "Hitler wasn't really a Christian. All Christians must be good, just as I've been taught."
You have your link. Here is mine
Its pretty long, so I'll quote a nicely relevant portion (any emphasis is mine):
Hitler's beliefs are expressed quite clearly in Mein Kampf, and they are as follows:
He believed in Heaven, ####, a supreme being who created the universe, Jesus Christ, life after death, special creation, original sin, expulsion from paradise, and divine judgement.
He drew his inspiration from the Viennese Christian Social movement, and he expressed nothing but admiration for its founder.
He believed that Jesus Christ was an Aryan, not a Jew. In fact, he claimed that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity".
He used the term "human" to describe only Aryans. He described blacks, Jews, and (presumably) other non-Aryan races as a disease, or as lower animals (notice that he described Jews as an "adversary of all humanity", thus clearly describing them as something other than humans).
He thought that interracial marriage would produce "monstrosities halfway between man and ape" and should be fought with religious fervour. This makes his beliefs on evolution and creation very clear; he thought that Aryans were created in God's own image, while all other races evolved from apes. This should come as no surprise; not only was this an overwhelmingly common belief during the age of European imperialism which lasted right up to the end of the 19th century, but it persists to this day (a lot of white supremacists still refer to blacks as "monkeys"). In his view, it was therefore an unnatural and unholy dilution of God's image for Aryans and non-Aryans to mate.
He believed that Germany lost World War I because it turned its back on God, much as Israel was repeatedly humiliated and defeated whenever it turned away from God in the Old Testament.
What more is required to show that he was Christian? Not for nothing do Christian apologists make the absurd claim that hearsay accounts of supposedly private conversations with people outside his inner circle should be considered penultimate forms of evidence while Hitler's seminal writings should be considered irrelevant; they fear the truth, and they want you to disregard his most personal work.
And make no mistake: Mein Kampf is his most personal work. Far from being the carefully crafted political statement that some would make it out to be, it was Hitler pouring out his soul and revealing all of his life's plans to his closest confidante. He dictated and Hess transcribed the text of Mein Kampf while he was in prison in 1923-1924, finishing it after his release and publishing it in 1925. In it, he revealed everything: his plan to expand Aryan "living space" at the expense of the Slavs (ie- the foolish attack on Russia that so few saw coming), his plan to avenge the German defeat of World War I by conquering France, his belief that all of the world's races should be subjugated under the Aryan race, and his plan to exterminate the Jews. By reading this single document, one can predict every major action Hitler would take over the next two decades including the Holocaust and the "surprise" attack on Russia, yet Christian apologists would have you believe it was nothing but a misleading propaganda piece!
So in the book he wrote himself, about his own beliefs, Hitler professed his Christianity. Lets not dance around this issue. "But," you say, "that isn't real Christianity! Christianity is good!" That is a steaming load of.. circular logic.
You have a few choices right now.
You may state what your particular brand of Christianity is, and refute all other sects of Christianity (and relinquish any need to explain or defend their actions. Note that you then also relinquish any ability to have Christianity take credit for their "good" actions).
You may accept all forms of Christianity, including Hitler's brand (thus taking the complete opposite tack as above).
You may describe to us what "qualifications" a sect of Christianity has to have to actually be "Christian".
I suppose you could also choose to take credit for all good actions of Christians, and refute all bad ones, and thus reveal yourself to be a hypocrite.
Personally, I believe that humans are humans, whether they claim to be from a religion or not. There will be good Christians and bad ones. There will be good Atheists and bad ones. I'd have much more respect for you as a Christian if you said "Hitler was a Christian, but an immoral one," than I do with your current tack of trying to wash Christianity's hands of the truth.