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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Freddie



Posts: 366
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2012,15:20   

Robert Byers is my favorite YEC sub-tard:





--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
olegt



Posts: 1387
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2012,17:34   

Quote (olegt @ Oct. 03 2012,09:22)
 
Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 03 2012,09:19)
   
Quote (Soapy Sam @ Oct. 03 2012,07:36)
I reckon I could write not just the essay, but a complete rebuttal thread in the voices of the main protagonists.

We just tried to comment on the Challenge thread, but our comment didn't appear, of course.

KF ought to offer a money prize for the essay. Though that would not generate a stampede, it would at least earn him 10 points on the crackpot scale (see #13).

Ask and ye shall receive:
 
Quote
johnnyb October 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm
If we have an essay challenge, shouldn’t we have a prize attached?


--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
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JohnW



Posts: 2262
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2012,18:22   

Quote (olegt @ Oct. 03 2012,15:34)
Ask and ye shall receive:
 
Quote
johnnyb October 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm
If we have an essay challenge, shouldn’t we have a prize attached?

The prize is Gordon's immortal soul, apparently:
Quote
JB:

They know the prize if they can pull off a knockout.

Not that I am particularly worried that they can actually do it (especially with OOL right in the heart of the challenge). Maybe I need to bring back the 18 Q’s too.

But they ALSO know that whistling by the graveyard invites the duppies leaning on the fence and watching the bravado to have some fun by crying out BOO!

EEeeeeeeeK!

Zoom!

PS: I recently heard of a policeman in Ja walking near a graveyard late at night. seeing a man with a coffin on the shoulder he was suspicious and challenged. “It gettin’ crowded where me been livin, so me movin house.” Zoom!

KF

It might be interesting to estimate the probability of Gordon's mind being changed, considering:
1.  He did not exactly get where he is via a dispassionate consideration of the scientific evidence.
2.  To a first approximation, everyone who might asnswer has better things to do than write a 6000-word essay for a bunch of tards.
3.  If anyone actually does write the essay, they've probably been banned at least once already.
4.  Based on the last two-thirds of his post, Gord's finally cracked up.

I think we're well past the probabilistic resources of the solar system here.  EEeeeeeeeK!  Zoom!

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2012,18:24   

Quote (Freddie @ Oct. 03 2012,16:20)
Robert Byers is my favorite YEC sub-tard:




What's really funny is that the Arkers have to posit a rate of evolution that no actual scientist in his right mind would advance.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2012,19:11   

Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 03 2012,19:22)
Quote (olegt @ Oct. 03 2012,15:34)
Ask and ye shall receive:
   
Quote
johnnyb October 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm
If we have an essay challenge, shouldn’t we have a prize attached?

The prize is Gordon's immortal soul, apparently:
Quote
JB:

They know the prize if they can pull off a knockout.

Not that I am particularly worried that they can actually do it (especially with OOL right in the heart of the challenge). Maybe I need to bring back the 18 Q’s too.

But they ALSO know that whistling by the graveyard invites the duppies leaning on the fence and watching the bravado to have some fun by crying out BOO!

EEeeeeeeeK!

Zoom!

PS: I recently heard of a policeman in Ja walking near a graveyard late at night. seeing a man with a coffin on the shoulder he was suspicious and challenged. “It gettin’ crowded where me been livin, so me movin house.” Zoom!

KF

It might be interesting to estimate the probability of Gordon's mind being changed, considering:
1.  He did not exactly get where he is via a dispassionate consideration of the scientific evidence.
2.  To a first approximation, everyone who might asnswer has better things to do than write a 6000-word essay for a bunch of tards.
3.  If anyone actually does write the essay, they've probably been banned at least once already.
4.  Based on the last two-thirds of his post, Gord's finally cracked up.

I think we're well past the probabilistic resources of the solar system here.  EEeeeeeeeK!  Zoom!

almost peed LOL



--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
k.e..



Posts: 2919
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2012,06:46   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Oct. 04 2012,02:24)
Quote (Freddie @ Oct. 03 2012,16:20)
Robert Byers is my favorite YEC sub-tard:




What's really funny is that the Arkers have to posit a rate of evolution that no actual scientist in his right mind would advance.

Indeed

Theory on Brontosauruses by Anne Elk (Miss).

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Amadan



Posts: 1255
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2012,08:22   

Quote (k.e.. @ Oct. 04 2012,12:46)
Theory on Brontosauruses by Anne Elk (Miss).

The album version (from 2'53") is much better.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2598
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2012,08:31   

Quote
kairosfocus: 24 hrs headlined, no takers on the 6,000 word essay challenge so far.

Sounds like he is ready to declare victory!

--------------
Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2598
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2012,08:38   

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 04 2012,08:31)
Quote
kairosfocus: 24 hrs headlined, no takers on the 6,000 word essay challenge so far.

Sounds like he is ready to declare victory!

Remember, kairosfocus, you've banned nearly everyone, and threw a fit because we emailed you.

--------------
Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2012,08:57   

that's the most hilariously pathetic thing i've ever seen over there.  

thanks gordon!

he even dribbled a few butt tears of asshurt over lewontin.  

does anyone really believe that gordon is so stupid as to think that anyone on earth actually cares what he thinks about anything?



Edited by Erasmus, FCD on Oct. 04 2012,10:06

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2012,09:19   

Only KF would consider that 24 hours is sufficient time for such a challenge.

Godro, the reason you feel this is a fair challenge is no doubt because you can write 6000 words on ID in a matter of minutes.

And the reason you can write so fast about ID is that you don't have to check your facts. ID's tent is large, you can write anything and still be inside that tent. And there is no way for you to check your "facts" as they bear no relation to what is happening in the real world anyway. If I make a claim that has no bearing on evolution anyway, there's no fact that can even be checked (comos/needle in haystack).

So the mere fact that you can set such a challenge and proclaim victory after such a short time is testament to your limited understanding of what it takes to make a reasoned, consilient case.

Perhaps you should set the tone Gordo, and write the equivalent for ID for what you are asking here? Trouble is you won't be able to do it without mentioning "darwinism" as ID is nothing without something to slip into as a hole.

So Gordo, I challenge you. Write that essay but about ID and without a single reference to "Darwinism" and I'll write a 6000 word essay about "Darwinism".

The game is afoot!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
JohnW



Posts: 2262
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2012,10:14   

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 04 2012,06:31)
Quote
kairosfocus: 24 hrs headlined, no takers on the 6,000 word essay challenge so far.

Sounds like he is ready to declare victory!

I can see tomorrow's headlines now:
Quote
STREET-CORNER LUNATIC ANNOUNCES VICTORY OVER SCIENCE: NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION, NIH AND NASA TO CLOSE




Edited by Lou FCD on Oct. 04 2012,15:48

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2012,11:42   

potw. It's what they are expecting to happen!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
BillB



Posts: 359
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,06:47   

KF gets ready to declare a hollow victory:  
Quote
Folks: Two days and counting, no takers. Looks like these folks have decided that the “just don’t understand science [a priori materialism flying the flag of science]” talking point is a good enough brush-off. But what this really shows is that there is a big challenge to answer to the origins question from the evolutionary materialist perspective without convenient a prioris, especially when OOL is in the mix. KF


Hold your horses KF, here is my entry:  
Quote
(comment deleted)


Yes - thought I would just skip to the inevitable conclusion.

  
damitall



Posts: 323
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,10:01   

Hi, kairosfocus (I know you dabble your feet in the fever swamp every so often)

You know, I'd be quite prepared to write 6K words as you suggest.

But I wouldn't publish it at UD.

Why?

For one thing I've been twice banned there after trying to post perfectly civil comments pointing out items in the scientific literature that refuted the ID arguments being made at the time. Censorship, pure and simple; and a thing I despise.

For another thing, I couldn't write anything that hasn't been said hundreds of times before, and which you and your sycophants have always ignored.

For yet another thing, I despise the cowardice shown by the denizens of UD, who, with one or two honourable exceptions, are too weak-kneed to take part in debates in fora where censorship is not used, and bad arguments are quickly exposed.

Yet again, I loathe the habit of those same cowards of calling folk who are making strong arguments against them liars, and accusing them of incivility where there is
none.

And lastly, what is the point? Even if I were to be able to post 6 thousand well-crafted words, I'm absolutely certain that I would not be allowed to respond to any objections or questions from the ID side.

No, sir. UD is hoist by its own censorious petard; and will continue to be a laughing-stock and a shrinking echo-chamber for that diminishing band of people who believe that the arguments for ID have any merit at all

Oh, and lastly... I should like to say that your own drum-beat-repeated Argument From Very Large Numbers is either the silliest, or the most dishonest, (I'm not sure, it may be both) I've ever seen.

So you can take your "challenge", add it to your censorship, wrap it in your utterly closed mind, fold it until it has many sharp corners, and shove it.

Thank you for listening

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2598
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,10:03   

Quote (BillB @ Oct. 05 2012,06:47)
Hold your horses KF, here is my entry:  
Quote
(comment deleted)


Yes - thought I would just skip to the inevitable conclusion.

Darn it! That was our answer.

Oh well, publish or perish.

--------------
Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,10:57   

Now I'll simply await the inevitable blog post from Gordy that explains why the lack of evidence (ha) for "Darwinism" supports his particular idea instead of another or none at all.

Go Gordon "Negative Case" Mullings!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
JohnW



Posts: 2262
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,12:12   

tgpeeler is USING a lot OF randomly capitalised WORDS, JUST like all THE best scientists:
Quote
This entire issue boils down to the question: Is it even possible for the laws of physics to explain information? In principle, as a matter of logic, they cannot. The laws of physics describe and prescribe the behavior of every bit of matter and energy in the universe. Physical laws govern the behavior of physical things.

Information requires language. Language requires symbols and rules. Symbols are ABSTRACT THINGS, arranged freely and purposefully in accordance with the rules of the language (and one hopes, logic) in order to create information. Let me say that again. The FREE and PURPOSEFUL arrangement of SYMBOLS is required for the generation of information. Free and purposeful have no standing in physics. Thus the denial of said free will and purpose. Meaning, or semantic content, or in the case of biology, LIFE is encoded into a physical substrate (explained by said physical laws) but it is DIFFERENT and APART FROM the physical substrate. Only a mind or Mind can explain information.

There are no laws of physics nor are there any algorithms based upon these laws that can EVER hope to explain how and why symbols are arranged in one way and not another and why they mean or do not mean anything.

This is not that difficult. The naturalist/materialist/physicalist position is destroyed. It’s game over for these… people. They just haven’t awakened to that difficult (for them) fact yet.

With all these declarations of the game being over, I'm astonished the lights are still on here this morning.

New research project for all those ID scientists: determine why information can only be explained by a mind or Mind, but not by a MIND or miND.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Amadan



Posts: 1255
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,13:05   

Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 05 2012,18:12)
tgpeeler is USING a lot OF randomly capitalised WORDS, JUST like all THE best scientists:
 
Quote
This entire issue boils down to the question: Is it even possible for the laws of physics to explain information? In principle, as a matter of logic, they cannot. The laws of physics describe and prescribe the behavior of every bit of matter and energy in the universe. Physical laws govern the behavior of physical things.

Information requires language. Language requires symbols and rules. Symbols are ABSTRACT THINGS, arranged freely and purposefully in accordance with the rules of the language (and one hopes, logic) in order to create information. Let me say that again. The FREE and PURPOSEFUL arrangement of SYMBOLS is required for the generation of information. Free and purposeful have no standing in physics. Thus the denial of said free will and purpose. Meaning, or semantic content, or in the case of biology, LIFE is encoded into a physical substrate (explained by said physical laws) but it is DIFFERENT and APART FROM the physical substrate. Only a mind or Mind can explain information.

There are no laws of physics nor are there any algorithms based upon these laws that can EVER hope to explain how and why symbols are arranged in one way and not another and why they mean or do not mean anything.

This is not that difficult. The naturalist/materialist/physicalist position is destroyed. It’s game over for these… people. They just haven’t awakened to that difficult (for them) fact yet.

With all these declarations of the game being over, I'm astonished the lights are still on here this morning.

New research project for all those ID scientists: determine why information can only be explained by a mind or Mind, but not by a MIND or miND.

Wouldn't you need a pHd to answer that properly?

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,13:47   

Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 05 2012,12:12)
This entire issue boils down to the question: Is it even possible for the laws of physics to explain information? In principle, as a matter of logic, they cannot. The laws of physics describe and prescribe the behavior of every bit of matter and energy in the universe. Physical laws govern the behavior of physical things.

Information requires language. Language requires symbols and rules. Symbols are ABSTRACT THINGS...

So let me see if I've got this right. Symbols cannot be...say...seen or heard or...felt? Symbols are not "physical things" that are governed by physical laws? Pray tell...how do you detect them then?

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
JohnW



Posts: 2262
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,13:56   

Quote (Robin @ Oct. 05 2012,11:47)
Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 05 2012,12:12)
This entire issue boils down to the question: Is it even possible for the laws of physics to explain information? In principle, as a matter of logic, they cannot. The laws of physics describe and prescribe the behavior of every bit of matter and energy in the universe. Physical laws govern the behavior of physical things.

Information requires language. Language requires symbols and rules. Symbols are ABSTRACT THINGS...

So let me see if I've got this right. Symbols cannot be...say...seen or heard or...felt? Symbols are not "physical things" that are governed by physical laws? Pray tell...how do you detect them then?

With your mind.  Or Mind.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Kristine



Posts: 3044
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,16:08   

Quote (Robin @ Oct. 05 2012,13:47)
Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 05 2012,12:12)
This entire issue boils down to the question: Is it even possible for the laws of physics to explain information? In principle, as a matter of logic, they cannot. The laws of physics describe and prescribe the behavior of every bit of matter and energy in the universe. Physical laws govern the behavior of physical things.

Information requires language. Language requires symbols and rules. Symbols are ABSTRACT THINGS...

So let me see if I've got this right. Symbols cannot be...say...seen or heard or...felt? Symbols are not "physical things" that are governed by physical laws? Pray tell...how do you detect them then?

Little angels bring them  to youover the rainbow on unicorns that poop gold coins. (Which you should be gathering up and burying in your basement.) :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10226
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,16:13   

KF regurgitates Joe's "Design is a mechanism!!!11111one".

Better tell Dembski that then ladies, first he didn't want to propose a mechanistic theory and then later he asked for possible mechanisms.

PS - Zero wavelength energy!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10226
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,16:20   

I see joe has gone back to being a rudeboi on the 'UP explores his own anal cavity, step by step' thread. Where oh where is that champion of civility, Gordon E Mullings when we need him?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
JohnW



Posts: 2262
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,16:30   

Quote (Robin @ Oct. 05 2012,11:47)
Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 05 2012,12:12)
This entire issue boils down to the question: Is it even possible for the laws of physics to explain information? In principle, as a matter of logic, they cannot. The laws of physics describe and prescribe the behavior of every bit of matter and energy in the universe. Physical laws govern the behavior of physical things.

Information requires language. Language requires symbols and rules. Symbols are ABSTRACT THINGS...

So let me see if I've got this right. Symbols cannot be...say...seen or heard or...felt? Symbols are not "physical things" that are governed by physical laws? Pray tell...how do you detect them then?

Oi!  That was some tard on UD, not me.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1016
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,19:19   

Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 05 2012,11:56)
 
Quote (Robin @ Oct. 05 2012,11:47)
 
Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 05 2012,12:12)
This entire issue boils down to the question: Is it even possible for the laws of physics to explain information? In principle, as a matter of logic, they cannot. The laws of physics describe and prescribe the behavior of every bit of matter and energy in the universe. Physical laws govern the behavior of physical things.

Information requires language. Language requires symbols and rules. Symbols are ABSTRACT THINGS...

So let me see if I've got this right. Symbols cannot be...say...seen or heard or...felt? Symbols are not "physical things" that are governed by physical laws? Pray tell...how do you detect them then?

With your mind.  Or Mind.




:)

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
The whole truth



Posts: 1016
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,19:38   





--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2136
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2012,20:23   

@twt: ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
BillB



Posts: 359
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2012,03:44   

Mung: I notice that in good Uncommon Descent tradition you are slinging insults with almost every post in the discussion of GA's (calling people dumb etc ..) meanwhile the self proclaimed moral authorities like KF turn a blind eye - Give the discussion about GA's I thought I would point out that Mung is only two mutations away from Dumb.

  
Freddie



Posts: 366
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2012,04:08   

Quote (BillB @ Oct. 06 2012,03:44)
Mung: I notice that in good Uncommon Descent tradition you are slinging insults with almost every post in the discussion of GA's (calling people dumb etc ..) meanwhile the self proclaimed moral authorities like KF turn a blind eye - Give the discussion about GA's I thought I would point out that Mung is only two mutations away from Dumb.

He also seems to have a new keyboard he's having so much fun with it ...



--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
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