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  Topic: VMartin's cosmology, where he will not be off-topic< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,16:38   

I liked VMartian much better when he was obsessed with testicles.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,16:52   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 19 2008,16:27)
 
Quote

With little or no selection pressure through predation, bright colors and bizarre patterns have arisen among a variety of unrelated species of secretive snakes. Among a substantial number of those species, several independently have developed color patterns of gross similarity although differing in detail. Snakes of similar size with grossly similar patterns bear a superficial
resemblance to each other. When such resembling species occupy approximately the same geographic area, the phenomenon might be called pseudomimicry. It is proposed that the superficial morphological resemblances among the coral snake, scarlet snake, and scarlet kingsnake in the southeastern United States comprise an example of pseudomimicry.


What is the explanation of 'pseudomimicry', Marty? I can't help but notice there isn't any actual explanation in here.

Naming something is not an explanation.

Oh really? You didn't notice? Did you read the whole article I have given link to? You would probably see that there is actually proposed an explanation of pseudomimicry (unless you suffers from dyslexia of course).  

Arnold B. Grobman offered an explanation there.

Or do you have problem with conneting to JSTOR from your McDarwin fastfood University?

--------------
I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,17:03   



Quote
Troll sign, by Tierecke on Flickr


--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
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Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,17:38   

Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 19 2008,16:52)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 19 2008,16:27)
   
Quote

With little or no selection pressure through predation, bright colors and bizarre patterns have arisen among a variety of unrelated species of secretive snakes. Among a substantial number of those species, several independently have developed color patterns of gross similarity although differing in detail. Snakes of similar size with grossly similar patterns bear a superficial
resemblance to each other. When such resembling species occupy approximately the same geographic area, the phenomenon might be called pseudomimicry. It is proposed that the superficial morphological resemblances among the coral snake, scarlet snake, and scarlet kingsnake in the southeastern United States comprise an example of pseudomimicry.


What is the explanation of 'pseudomimicry', Marty? I can't help but notice there isn't any actual explanation in here.

Naming something is not an explanation.

Oh really? You didn't notice? Did you read the whole article I have given link to? You would probably see that there is actually proposed an explanation of pseudomimicry (unless you suffers from dyslexia of course).  

Arnold B. Grobman offered an explanation there.

Is explaining his theory more than your linguistic and intellectual skills can handle? Or is it that your break is over and you need to get back to your window? Or is it that you are continue to run away like stench, he he?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,17:58   

Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 19 2008,17:52)
Oh really? You didn't notice? Did you read the whole article I have given link to? You would probably see that there is actually proposed an explanation of pseudomimicry (unless you suffers from dyslexia of course).  

Arnold B. Grobman offered an explanation there.

Or do you have problem with conneting to JSTOR from your McDarwin fastfood University?

V,

It would be interesting if you actually presented some sort of case, some alternative to the theory of evolution.

As it is, simply repeating "Darwin sucks" in various and sundry forms is becoming tiresome.  Quoting long dead scientists helps you not one whit, especially when you quote ones whose ideas have turned out to be incorrect, which you do with alarming frequency.

Find an alternative.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,20:33   

Quote
find an alternative


HOW ABOUT YOU ALTERNATIVE YOUR ASS BACK TO WORK GODDAMMIT MARTIN YOU ARE NOT BEING PAID TO FIDDLEFART AROUND WITH YOUR GOOBER ON TEH INTERWEBZ YOU ARE BEING HARDLY PAID TO KEEP THOSE ORDERS COMING.  NOT ANOTHER WORD UNTIL YOU KNOW THE MCMENU BY HEART!!!!one!!!!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,11:43   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 19 2008,17:58)
Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 19 2008,17:52)
Oh really? You didn't notice? Did you read the whole article I have given link to? You would probably see that there is actually proposed an explanation of pseudomimicry (unless you suffers from dyslexia of course).  

Arnold B. Grobman offered an explanation there.

Or do you have problem with conneting to JSTOR from your McDarwin fastfood University?

V,

It would be interesting if you actually presented some sort of case, some alternative to the theory of evolution.

As it is, simply repeating "Darwin sucks" in various and sundry forms is becoming tiresome.  Quoting long dead scientists helps you not one whit, especially when you quote ones whose ideas have turned out to be incorrect, which you do with alarming frequency.

Find an alternative.

Actually you haven't presented any evidence that herpetologist and professor of biology Arnold B. Grobman was wrong regarding his research and conclusions about "mimicry" of coral snakes. And it was Jeanot and not me who started the discussion about this case of "mimicry".

Professor Grobman also presented in his paper non-selectionist explanation of the case. But maybe you  think that all cases of so-called mimicry could be apriori reduced to natural selection whatever the reality and facts are.

And I would like to ask you something. Do you think that contents of Erasmus' posts agree with AtBC rules of  discussion?

--------------
I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,11:46   

Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 20 2008,11:43)
And I would like to ask you something. Do you think that contents of Erasmus' posts agree with AtBC rules of  discussion?

Nope. We asked you first.

What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?

Your turn.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,12:07   

Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 20 2008,11:43)
 
Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 19 2008,17:58)
   
Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 19 2008,17:52)
Oh really? You didn't notice? Did you read the whole article I have given link to? You would probably see that there is actually proposed an explanation of pseudomimicry (unless you suffers from dyslexia of course).  

Arnold B. Grobman offered an explanation there.

Or do you have problem with conneting to JSTOR from your McDarwin fastfood University?

V,

It would be interesting if you actually presented some sort of case, some alternative to the theory of evolution.

As it is, simply repeating "Darwin sucks" in various and sundry forms is becoming tiresome.  Quoting long dead scientists helps you not one whit, especially when you quote ones whose ideas have turned out to be incorrect, which you do with alarming frequency.

Find an alternative.

Actually you haven't presented any evidence that herpetologist and professor of biology Arnold B. Grobman was wrong regarding his research and conclusions about "mimicry" of coral snakes. And it was Jeanot and not me who started the discussion about this case of "mimicry".

Professor Grobman also presented in his paper non-selectionist explanation of the case. But maybe you  think that all cases of so-called mimicry could be apriori reduced to natural selection whatever the reality and facts are.

And I would like to ask you something. Do you think that contents of Erasmus' posts agree with AtBC rules of  discussion?


You're trying to change the subject. Nice try, but you don't have enough credibility to pull it off.

Martin, you seem unwilling to discuss why Grobman's paper supposedly supports your view. Have you even paid for, downloaded and *read* it, or are you just bluffing, based on the title page?

Or is there some other reason why you can't/won't explain Grobman's argument?

My suspicion is that Grobman isn't as 'anti-Darwinian' as you'd like, and you're hoping we won't notice.

So: what is YOUR explanation of apparent mimicry in snakes?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2008,16:10   

Quote

What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?


As far as I know neodarwinian school offered only so-called "Mertensian mimicry" as the explanation of the mimicry of deadly poisonous coral snakes. No one bird has been observed to survive after being bitten. So how can any bird learn not to touch coral-like snakes?


Quote

During the next 80 min, the bird became progressively uncoordinated, unresponsive to my approach, and finally collapsed. By 14:05 h the bird was dead of flaccid paralysis typical of the neurotoxic effects of elapsid venom.


jstor 1989: Red-Tailed Hawk Dies with Coral Snake in Talons

Above mentioned professor Grobman who called the whole issue as pseudomimicry offered this solution:

Quote

In developing the concept of pseudomimicry, it is suggested that in secretive snakes, in which there is no selection pressure for a color pattern that is concealing, camouflaging, deflective, warning, mimicking, etc., a wide variety of non-adaptive color patterns could arise
and some might be quite bright and bizarre....
.
.
.
Among secretive snakes there is little or no selection pressure by predators for a protective color pattern. With little or no selection pressure through predation, bright colors and bizarre patterns have arisen among a variety of unrelated species of secretive snakes. Among a substantial number of those species, several independently have developed color patterns of gross similarity although differing in detail. Snakes of similar size with grossly similar patterns bear a superficial resemblance to each other. When such resembling species occupy approximately the same geographic area, the phenomenon might be called pseudomimicry. It is proposed that the superficial morphological resemblances among the coral snake, scarlet snake, and scarlet kingsnake in the southeastern United States comprise an example of pseudomimicry.


Sounds like Heikertinger who refuted natural selection as the source of mimicry entirely.

As to the so-called neodarwinian mertesian mimicry explanation - or in German "Mertensche mimikry" - Komarek from UNI Prague wrote, that the whole explanation belongs more to the realm of fairy-tales.

Mimicry, Aposematism and Related Phenomena in Animals and Plants 1998

For those who are interested in an independent view on the whole issue of mimicry and neodarwinism as well, some of Komarek's views can be found   here pdf.

--------------
I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2008,16:33   

Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 22 2008,16:10)
   
Quote

What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?


As far as I know neodarwinian school offered only so-called "Mertensian mimicry" as the explanation of the mimicry of deadly poisonous coral snakes.

V

I don't know how to break this news to you, but your response is not an answer to the question.

Try again.

What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?

[hint - the word "explanation" means that you try to "explain" the phenomenon. Talking endlessly about how another explanation fails to account for all of your facts is not the same thing as an explanation.]

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2008,16:42   

You obviously didn't read my previous post where I highlited the text written by professor Grobman. The discussing case of coral snakes is not mimicry, only "pseudomimicry". Mimicry by definition is a resemblance between the species living in the same area giving some of them survival advantage where natural selection is the source of the resemblance. Because in all discussed cases there is not natural selection involved we are not dealing with "mimicry" only with a resemblance. Consequently I have no answer to something that doesn't exist per definition.

--------------
I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2008,17:45   

Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 22 2008,16:42)
You obviously didn't read my previous post where I highlited the text written by professor Grobman. The discussing case of coral snakes is not mimicry, only "pseudomimicry". Mimicry by definition is a resemblance between the species living in the same area giving some of them survival advantage where natural selection is the source of the resemblance. Because in all discussed cases there is not natural selection involved we are not dealing with "mimicry" only with a resemblance. Consequently I have no answer to something that doesn't exist per definition.

Obviously you didn't understand the question; I said that they "seem to mimic" coral snakes. These snakes certainly exist, and they certainly seem to look like coral snakes, or your argument would be even more pointless than usual. Notice that I didn't say that this was a case of mimicry. I'll agree with you that it is pseudomimicry. But naming it is not the same as explaining it.

Try again, but focus on the question this time.

What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Henry J



Posts: 4068
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2008,17:56   

Quote
No one bird has been observed to survive after being bitten. So how can any bird learn not to touch coral-like snakes?


If it happens often for a particular bird species, it might give an advantage to any variety within that species that happens to have an aversion (or even just a lack of interest) in snakes of that appearance, over varieties of the species that lack that aversion.

Henry

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2008,18:33   

Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 20 2008,12:43)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 19 2008,17:58)
 
Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 19 2008,17:52)
Oh really? You didn't notice? Did you read the whole article I have given link to? You would probably see that there is actually proposed an explanation of pseudomimicry (unless you suffers from dyslexia of course).  

Arnold B. Grobman offered an explanation there.

Or do you have problem with conneting to JSTOR from your McDarwin fastfood University?

V,

It would be interesting if you actually presented some sort of case, some alternative to the theory of evolution.

As it is, simply repeating "Darwin sucks" in various and sundry forms is becoming tiresome.  Quoting long dead scientists helps you not one whit, especially when you quote ones whose ideas have turned out to be incorrect, which you do with alarming frequency.

Find an alternative.

Actually you haven't presented any evidence that herpetologist and professor of biology Arnold B. Grobman was wrong regarding his research and conclusions about "mimicry" of coral snakes. And it was Jeanot and not me who started the discussion about this case of "mimicry".

Professor Grobman also presented in his paper non-selectionist explanation of the case. But maybe you  think that all cases of so-called mimicry could be apriori reduced to natural selection whatever the reality and facts are.

And I would like to ask you something. Do you think that contents of Erasmus' posts agree with AtBC rules of  discussion?

I've made no claims whatever, V.

I asked you a straightforward question.

The fact that you choose to play games and simply repeat the mantra of "The Darwinisimusikov sucks" says much about your (utter lack of) explanation.

Just spit it out, V.

You're not really fooling anyone anyway.

As for Erasmus' posts, moderation discussion can be taken up by PM.  You'd have known that had you actually bothered to read the rules about which you're so smarmily asking.

Given your own posting history, you might want to consider taking a deep breath before bitching about anyone else.  Please look at aforementioned rules for the term "excessively annoying".

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2008,01:35   

Albatrossity2

Quote

What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?


You use words you don't underestand. What do you mean by "to mimic"?

There are placental wolfs and marsupial wolfs that looks very similar. Would you ask me the stupid question:

What is your favored explanation of the origin of placental wolfs that seem to mimic marsupial wolfs ?  

Make clear yourself what do you mean by "to mimic", "mimicry" and come back. Or better - explain me what do you mean by these words.

--------------
I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2008,02:04   

Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 22 2008,17:56)
     
Quote
No one bird has been observed to survive after being bitten. So how can any bird learn not to touch coral-like snakes?


If it happens often for a particular bird species, it might give an advantage to any variety within that species that happens to have an aversion (or even just a lack of interest) in snakes of that appearance, over varieties of the species that lack that aversion.

Henry

But there are some cases observed where birds were bitten and died and some cases where birds killed and decapitated coral snakes. In the same article I have given link to there is a table "Published records of Avian predation on coral snakes and red and black coral snakes".

Observed birds were: Red-tailed hawk, Red-shouldered hawk, American kestrel, Laughing falcon, Puffbird, Loggerhead shrike.

The interesting facts are recorded about the laughing falcons: one decapitated a coral snake but didn't eat it, but another laughing falcon ate living false coral snake without decapitating it! I am not claiming laughing falcons distinguish between coral snakes and king snakes, but perhaps who knows.

Your explanation is a current one as far as I know.
But it requires that such innate aversions evolved in many predatory species - which seems to be very strange - and on the other hand there are many species that attack  coral snakes without any harm.

--------------
I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2008,02:30   

Lou FCD

     
Quote

I've made no claims whatever, V.


You made claims. You wrote:

     
Quote

Quoting long dead scientists helps you not one whit, especially when you quote ones whose ideas have turned out to be incorrect, which you do with alarming frequency


Do you mean I was incorrect with coloration of fruiting bodies of mushrooms, wasps "mimicry", descent of testicles? All of them are at least open problems for discussion I dare say.  

       
Quote

Given your own posting history, you might want to consider taking a deep breath before bitching about anyone else.  Please look at aforementioned rules for
the term "excessively annoying".


I wasn't bitching. I asked a question.

--------------
I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2008,07:28   

Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 23 2008,01:35)
Albatrossity2

   
Quote
What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?


You use words you don't underestand. What do you mean by "to mimic"?

Huh. I thought you were the one who brought up this topic. It's pretty sad when you admit you don't even know the definition of a word you have been throwing around in your last hundred comments or so.

mimic = "look like"

Thanks

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Alan Fox



Posts: 1365
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2008,12:12   

Quote
For those who are interested in an independent view on the whole issue of mimicry and neodarwinism as well, some of Komarek's views can be found   here pdf.


This paper is a work of history. I can find no evidence of research into the possible mechanisms of mimicry in it. "Komarek' views" shed no light on any alternative explanation of mimicry, unless I have missed something. Perhaps you can pick out something?

  
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,12:53   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Mar. 23 2008,07:28)
Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 23 2008,01:35)
Albatrossity2

     
Quote
What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?


You use words you don't underestand. What do you mean by "to mimic"?

Huh. I thought you were the one who brought up this topic. It's pretty sad when you admit you don't even know the definition of a word you have been throwing around in your last hundred comments or so.

mimic = "look like"

Thanks

So you think that placental wolfs are "mimicking" marsupial wolfs?

--------------
I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,13:12   

I think that the moon is mimicking the sun marty.

The serpent mimicked Jesus The Designer.

You mimic a real person interested in science.

On the other hand, your ass is getting ready to mimic a football if you don't

GET OFF THE COMPUTER MARTIN HERE COMES THE 19 YEAR OLD MANAGER KID AND HE IS PISSISIMUS LIKE THE STENCH!!!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,13:16   

Quote (Alan Fox @ Mar. 23 2008,12:12)
 
Quote
For those who are interested in an independent view on the whole issue of mimicry and neodarwinism as well, some of Komarek's views can be found   here pdf.


This paper is a work of history. I can find no evidence of research into the possible mechanisms of mimicry in it. "Komarek' views" shed no light on any alternative explanation of mimicry, unless I have missed something. Perhaps you can pick out something?

I suspect you of very superficial reading the material. Komarek for instance wrote:

 
Quote

Day-active birds, as is well known, attack owls with an almost passionate hatred /so called mobbing/, even though most of them do not constitute a direct danger for the birds. On the other hand, the birds usually cannot attack the owls with any great success. In spite of all neo-Darwinian attempts at interpretation of this phenomenon /e.g. Curio, 1978/ it seems, that „irrational“ emotions, something like archetypal hatred between day birds and night birds, play an important role. This is
seen even clearer in occasionally published papers about occurrences of the mobbing of bats by small day birds /Campbell, 1973, Cundale et al., 1988, Strong & Cuffe, 1985/ (this author observed this as well) - Here neither predation nor competition can play even the slightest role, the only remaining explanation is the deep archetypal hatred for non-birds, which are too
similar not to attract attention and at the same time too different to be accepted as „regular“ birds.).



I think that "archetypal hatred between day birds and night birds" is something that is no way in accord with neodarwinian mantras.

 
Quote

It is interesting that nobody from the Continental school attempted to interpret cryptic phenomena using Jung’s and von Pauli’s (Jung, 1952) principle of synchronicity, or rather in this case „syntopicity“, for which it would be an almost ideal subject (synchronicity is understood by Jung and von Pauli to be the cumulation of phenomena, which require joint interpretation - in this case optical phenomena ) in space and time (even various other mimetic phenomena would fit into this thought system very well). It is important to know that Jung’s and von
Pauli’s (and also Kammerer’s, 1919) principle of synchronicity goes against the whole range of modern science with its principle of causality...
.
.
.
then mimetic paralle lism of the external form would remind us of inter-psychic connections between people who are close to one another, which causes for example the induction of psychic symptoms in otherwise healthy individuals by their sick relations (the well known phenomena folie deux).
Considering the fact that modern science does not operate with the term psýché in this way,
the interpretation of mimetic phenomena in this way lies outside its scope of interest, but in any case this analogy seems to be quite useful


Interesting is also the chapter "Darwinism and sociomorphic modeling". As you can see some biologists from Uni Prague have pretty relaxed stance towards the mainstream neo-darwinism.

--------------
I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,13:22   

Martin, can you please explain in more detail this 'archetypical hatred of day birds and night birds'?

In particular, this empirical finding seems to verify the biblical prediction that bats are indeed birds.  I am intrigued by your diligent hard work and of course I apologize for heaping such undeserved scorn upon a true sojourner for truth and knowledge.  It must be difficult to be a piranha and I regret my participation in such behavior.

Shhh some one is coming....

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
jeannot



Posts: 1200
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,13:25   

Martin has got a point here. Defining mimicry is not straightforward. Probably, wikipedia has a definition. Care to look at it, Martin?

Also, the authors of the Nature paper did some measures of predation on snakes, which supported their hypothesis. What say you?

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,13:31   

Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 24 2008,18:53)
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Mar. 23 2008,07:28)
Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 23 2008,01:35)
Albatrossity2

     
Quote
What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?


You use words you don't underestand. What do you mean by "to mimic"?

Huh. I thought you were the one who brought up this topic. It's pretty sad when you admit you don't even know the definition of a word you have been throwing around in your last hundred comments or so.

mimic = "look like"

Thanks

So you think that placental wolfs are "mimicking" marsupial wolfs?

Well, no, he wasn't actually making any claims.

He was asking what you thought explains the fact that some animals look like others. So what do you think?

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,13:39   

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Mar. 24 2008,13:31)
Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 24 2008,18:53)
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Mar. 23 2008,07:28)
 
Quote (VMartin @ Mar. 23 2008,01:35)
Albatrossity2

       
Quote
What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?


You use words you don't underestand. What do you mean by "to mimic"?

Huh. I thought you were the one who brought up this topic. It's pretty sad when you admit you don't even know the definition of a word you have been throwing around in your last hundred comments or so.

mimic = "look like"

Thanks

So you think that placental wolfs are "mimicking" marsupial wolfs?

Well, no, he wasn't actually making any claims.

He was asking what you thought explains the fact that some animals look like others. So what do you think?

"Surely for the asking of that question are you the foolish neodarwinismusist, he he."

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,14:19   

Quote (jeannot @ Mar. 24 2008,13:25)
Martin has got a point here. Defining mimicry is not straightforward. Probably, wikipedia has a definition. Care to look at it, Martin?

Also, the authors of the Nature paper did some measures of predation on snakes, which supported their hypothesis. What say you?

I agree. I am not sure that V understands it past the "looks alike" cursory definition, however.  Note that he didn't really answer the question (again) but rather came back with another question.

Sigh.

V. Please try again, using whatever definition of "mimic" yanks your chain.

What is your favored explanation of the origin of snakes that seem to mimic coral snakes?

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,14:48   

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Mar. 24 2008,13:22)
Martin, can you please explain in more detail this 'archetypical hatred of day birds and night birds'?

In particular, this empirical finding seems to verify the biblical prediction that bats are indeed birds.  I am intrigued by your diligent hard work and of course I apologize for heaping such undeserved scorn upon a true sojourner for truth and knowledge.  It must be difficult to be a piranha and I regret my participation in such behavior.

Shhh some one is coming....

Have you sobered up? What did you drink? Mojito with mexican urine?

Are you still working in the University department with that colleague of yours who doesn't know how to tell apart spiders and ants? What Unversity are you working at?

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I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,14:51   

Quote (jeannot @ Mar. 24 2008,13:25)
Martin has got a point here. Defining mimicry is not straightforward. Probably, wikipedia has a definition. Care to look at it, Martin?

Also, the authors of the Nature paper did some measures of predation on snakes, which supported their hypothesis. What say you?

I have offered my definition of mimicry as Heikertinger had defined it. I've done it several times. It's not my problem that nobody at AtBC read my posts. There are several points which have to be fulfilled to enable a resemblance to be called as "mimicry".

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I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
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