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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,23:07   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 25 2011,12:28)
I essentially don't expect any monetary return on value from "Expelled". I think I've seen it in program listings once in the past several months, and as Kevin Miller helpfully noted, there's an existing distribution agreement that's ongoing (and didn't stave off bankruptcy for Premise Media, so it can't be delivering much). The value of the materials associated with "Expelled" lies elsewhere for me and hopefully many others interested in fending off religious antievolution encroachments disguised as "academic freedom".

I know that we aren't interested but I was more wondering if somebody might bid $50k thinking that there is enough life in it to return an income of say $20k a year for the next few years.

It would be ironic if  you guys made a steady income from the original movie.

  
Freelurker



Posts: 80
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,05:22   

I donated.
It's for a good cause even if we don't get the movie.

--------------
Invoking intelligent design in science is like invoking gremlins in engineering. [after Mark Isaak.]
All models are wrong, some models are useful. - George E. P. Box

  
Stephen Furley



Posts: 4
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,06:49   

Quote (fnxtr @ June 24 2011,22:24)
"lavenders"???

Low contrast fine grain intermediate black and white elements.  So-named because they had a slight lavender colour to them.  Unlikely to exist for this film, as are 'color reversals'.  This looks like a standard list of possible elements which might exist for a film which they have just pasted in, rather than a specific list of elements which do exist for this particular film.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,09:21   

Quote (OgreMkV @ June 24 2011,22:24)
Meh, Miller is a liar.  We all know that.  Either he has the transcripts/notes (in which case he's stealing and if he doesn't turn them over to whomever buys the movie, then he's guilty of breaking several other laws including contract law and bankruptcy law as well) OR he doesn't have the transcripts/notes in which case, he's just being a tool.

Kevin Miller reveals his black-and-white thinking with his blather about my "paranoia" and a "scandal." Archives are always biased, but they reveal something about their creators, namely the intentions and aims of the people who worked on this project. I fully expect that most intentions were well-meant, but that is the point: the Road to Perdition, etc.

Did Ronald Numbers' The Creationists: The Evolution of Scientific Creationism reveal a "scandal"? For that matter, was the Wedge Document a "scandal"? It was revealing, yes, but a scandal? What I would term a scandal was the clandestine acquisition of Of Pandas and People in Dover.

And how do we know that the transcripts are complete? We still don't have the complete transcripts from McLean v. Arkansas.

I think I made a statement about treating this material with the respect that it is due first, namely, restoring (if necessary) original order and provenance, and he barged in like the bull in a china shop he is to mock. Frankly, records are lost, even unintentionally, all the time (a point that I will make in my latest article, tentatively coming out in September), although considering the slights-of-hand that Expelled employed, I think my fears of shredding have at least some validity.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
kevinmillerxi



Posts: 92
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,10:30   

I seem to have mistakenly touched a nerve, Kristine. I was simply trying to save you money. There's really no there there. I fail to see anything strident in my comment.

That said, it does strike me as rather odd to see all of you obsessing over gaining access to this film. If Expelled truly is an inconsequential piece of horseshit, I fail to see why it's so important to gain access to the archives. I can't imagine how pathetically you would view Christians who set about to do the same if they had the chance to get their hands on the original drafts, notes, etc. behind Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion," for instance. The book was a full frontal attack on religion. But it's arguments were so easily defeated that its relevance (and perceived threat to theism) quickly faded from view. I defy you to find a group of theists hunkered down in a shady corner of the internet talking about it right now. And I can hardly conceive of a group of Christians gleefully plotting to gain control of the rights so they could publish their own annotated version of the book. And if they did, I can hear you people mocking them mercilessly. And it would be well deserved, b/c it would be a pathetic form of behavior fear-based behavior. It would also be extremely telling in terms of the perceived threat "The God Delusion" represented. The fact that you're still hunkered down over here chortling about "Expelled" three years later, full of vitriol and immediately defensive at the slightest criticism of your behavior is the most telling of all. Just an observation.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,10:44   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 25 2011,10:30)
I seem to have mistakenly touched a nerve, Kristine. I was simply trying to save you money. There's really no there there. I fail to see anything strident in my comment.

That said, it does strike me as rather odd to see all of you obsessing over gaining access to this film. If Expelled truly is an inconsequential piece of horseshit, I fail to see why it's so important to gain access to the archives. I can't imagine how pathetically you would view Christians who set about to do the same if they had the chance to get their hands on the original drafts, notes, etc. behind Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion," for instance. The book was a full frontal attack on religion. But it's arguments were so easily defeated that its relevance (and perceived threat to theism) quickly faded from view. I defy you to find a group of theists hunkered down in a shady corner of the internet talking about it right now. And I can hardly conceive of a group of Christians gleefully plotting to gain control of the rights so they could publish their own annotated version of the book. And if they did, I can hear you people mocking them mercilessly. And it would be well deserved, b/c it would be a pathetic form of behavior fear-based behavior. It would also be extremely telling in terms of the perceived threat "The God Delusion" represented. The fact that you're still hunkered down over here chortling about "Expelled" three years later, full of vitriol and immediately defensive at the slightest criticism of your behavior is the most telling of all. Just an observation.

Kevin, it is obvious to everyone that I have touched a nerve in you. You deny being strident, then launch into insults, which I have not done. Grow up.

Look for my article when it comes out, and you will see how I treat any subject.

ETA - Oh, and Kevin: I personally advised Richard Dawkins to save all of his ephemera, his notes, his drafts, as much as possible. That is what an archivist does, think of the future, and I'm talking more than three years hence.

Edited by Kristine on June 25 2011,11:01

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,11:10   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 25 2011,10:30)
Just an observation.

I think you are in the wrong line of work.

Your "observations" have been somewhat lacking both here and in your professional endeavors.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
kevinmillerxi



Posts: 92
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,12:07   

You haven't addressed my "shoe on the other foot" analogy, Kristine. And I'm sorry, your attempt at dispassionate interest in archiving the material fails to convince. This is all about vindictiveness. And I don't mean to single you out in that. Let's just call a spade a spade.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,12:16   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 25 2011,12:07)
You haven't addressed my "shoe on the other foot" analogy, Kristine. And I'm sorry, your attempt at dispassionate interest in archiving the material fails to convince. This is all about vindictiveness. And I don't mean to single you out in that. Let's just call a spade a spade.

I have addressed it, Kevin. I told Richard to save everything.

You or anyone can come out with an annotated version if you want. After all, Expelled was a particularly vile annotation of Origin of Species.

Quit while you're behind.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2040
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,12:20   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 25 2011,10:07)
You haven't addressed my "shoe on the other foot" analogy, Kristine. And I'm sorry, your attempt at dispassionate interest in archiving the material fails to convince. This is all about vindictiveness. And I don't mean to single you out in that. Let's just call a spade a spade.

Um, no.

It's about correcting the lies and bullshit you generated, Kevin Eleven, and making sure the correction is available to as many people as possible so that teachers, administrators, politicians, and hoi polloi don't get blindsided by the same bullshit again and again and again.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,12:31   

It occurs to me now that Kevin was probably completely blindsided by this turn of events. He is likely hurt, and probably bitter, and I can understand that.

But that is where creationism leads - to bitterness. The Darwinian powers-that-be just seem to keep winning, are too powerful to fight, etc., etc.

He doesn't realize that, in pursuing my own career now in information science, I have left many of the anti-religious arguments behind, and in fact called God Delusion Dawkins' least interesting book. (Yes, I said that to him, too.)

If nothing else, we could finally find out how much Expelled cost - I do believe that is still a question.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,12:53   

Quote (Kristine @ June 25 2011,13:31)
It occurs to me now that Kevin was probably completely blindsided by this turn of events. He is likely hurt, and probably bitter, and I can understand that.

call the waaaaaaaaaaahmbulance

until he apologizes for his share of that pile of shit i hope he cries every day and has nightmares every night.

kevvy baby what's Sternberg up to these days anyhow?  looking for the hovind movie any.day.now!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 995
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,13:06   

Kev!  So nice to have you back!  I have so missed your abject stupidity and duplicity.  Hey, why don't you start a blog and call it "Stuplicity?"

Bad example you picked, The God Delusion.  Currently number 86, overall, on Amazon.  Over 2 million copies sold.  A quick check of books by reputable authors (that would leave you out, of course) shows that the closest rival sits at about 25,000.  Yeah, Dawkins has been refuted, OK.

The think is, Kev old fruit, is that all of Dawkins arguments are laid out there to read and critique.  Nothing hidden.  Perhaps you're looking for a prayer scribbled in the margins:  Please, God, help me sell 2 million copies of this rubbish.

HOWEVER, in Expelled, as you well know, nobody was expelled.  The whole thing is made up, every case.  By owning the film we could make the Real Expelled with commentary on what actually went down.  And the DI would be powerless to slap DMA violations or copyright violations.  How sweet would that be?

Don't you think the world needs to know that Dembski was fired for being a horse's ass by the very same Baylor President who defended him just a few days earlier?  Only "fired" is so harsh when one is simply relieved of teaching duties but free to collect a salary for five years.  All of you who want to get expelled like Dembski raise your hands!!

You already admitted you lied about Sternberg; no need to raise that again.

Let's review famous creationists and ID proponents and list who's been expelled.  Behe, nope.  Meyers, nope.  Berlinski, nope.  Dembski, nope.  Wells, nope.  West, nope.  Phillips, nope.  Richards, nope.  Gonzalez, nope.  Crocker, nope.

Hmmmmm, seems like they're all gainfully employed.

Wouldn't it be fun to do a "Where Are They Now?" segment in Expelled?  I think so!

Keep it up, Kev, you're providing much needed entertainment on an otherwise hot, dull Saturday!

  
Cubist



Posts: 333
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,13:22   

I can certainly see why Mr. Miller would prefer that the 'ephemera' of Expelled sink into oblivion. It would clearly be better for Mr. Miller's reputation if his part in the creation of that collection of damned lies was forgotten for all time.
Mr. Miller, I am given to understand that there's a Middle Eastern religion whose founder exhorted his followers to be honest in all things. Your actions suggest, first, that you are completely unfamiliar with this religion, and second, that you would benefit from following its 'don't lie' precept. This religion is called, by some, Christianity. Have you heard of it?

  
Woodbine



Posts: 684
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,14:03   

Quote
And I can hardly conceive of a group of Christians gleefully plotting to gain control of the rights so they could publish their own annotated version of the book.

Can't you? Let us help you....

Here's Ray 'Banana' Comfort repackaging Darwin's Origin complete with special introduction....

http://www.livingwaters.com/index.p....sk=view

And here's our good friend William Dembski announcing the imminent release of Alfred Russell Wallace's World of Life, re-titled to appeal to the IDiots and encumbered with similar introduction and foreword.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/coming-soon/

(Kevin, for comic relief read Dembski's first comment! For reasons best left to his troubled soul Dembski seems to have a fetish for collecting domains with names relevant to intelligent design or evolution and then bragging about it. He even, during his pasting by Hitchens, brought up the fact he owned some such website as though this was supposed to impress anyone....he is disturbed. Unsurprisingly if one follows that link it's as dead as an intelligently designed dodo.)

Kevin according to you this is nothing more than....
 
Quote
a pathetic form of behavior fear-based behavior

....or does it depend on who's doing it?

Kevin, what is your analysis of someone who makes a film that exploits the holocaust in order to demonize the scientific community because they happen to reject totally the non-theory of intelligent design?

Someone like that must be a real sad fucker, eh?

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3221
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,15:30   

Kevin,

I know why you refuse to answer my question (where is Sternberg working right now?) because by ignoring it you might be able to retain some sense of dignity.

Interestingly, I know of only one person in the decades of the 'controversy' that has actually been fired for taking a position on the ID/evolution debate.

That was the Texas Education Agency director of science curriculum and she was fired for forwarding an e-mail about a talk from Barbara Forrest.

That's it.  One person and she was a science teacher fired from promoting science knowledge.  Not harassing employees like that IDiot at JPL.  Just doing her job and forwarding information about a meeting that shows the lies of ID.

Tell me, what do you think of that?

BTW: Are you going to give those files on your HDD to whomever wins the bid?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,16:37   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 25 2011,13:07)
You haven't addressed my "shoe on the other foot" analogy, Kristine. And I'm sorry, your attempt at dispassionate interest in archiving the material fails to convince. This is all about vindictiveness. And I don't mean to single you out in that. Let's just call a spade a spade.

Kevin, seriously, why don't you just fuck off?  This alternate reality that you live in really isn't working and it's really pathetic that you're trying to spin this as anything other than the complete and total commercial failure of your perfidious propaganda porn piece.

You LOST.  Big time.  Now just admit how badly you suck and toddle along then.

--------------
I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
Stephen Furley



Posts: 4
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,16:48   

Quote (Kristine @ June 25 2011,12:16)
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 25 2011,12:07)
You haven't addressed my "shoe on the other foot" analogy, Kristine. And I'm sorry, your attempt at dispassionate interest in archiving the material fails to convince. This is all about vindictiveness. And I don't mean to single you out in that. Let's just call a spade a spade.

I have addressed it, Kevin. I told Richard to save everything.

You or anyone can come out with an annotated version if you want. After all, Expelled was a particularly vile annotation of Origin of Species.

Quit while you're behind.

Kristine,

I haven't seen this film; I tried to buy a copy while I was out today, but couldn't find one.  Can you please explain in what way you think it is 'particularly vile'?  I know that Richard was unhappy about the way in which the film was represented (misrepresented?) when he was requested to give an interview; is it this that you are unhappy about, or the content of the film itself?  Do you claim that the content of the film was untrue, or that it was simply selective in the truth which it chose to present?

What was the content in the film relating to the holocaust which many people seem to have found particularly objectionable?  Was this attempting to put the blame for the holocaust on atheism/humanism/secularism?  If so, this would be ridiculous, but certainly not unique to this film; such claims have been made by many in the past.

What do you hope to find if it is possible to buy the rights to this film, and materials relating to it?  Is it not likely that much of this material not included in the film itself would have been discarded when the production was completed?

There has been considerable discussion about the possibility of producing an 'annotated' version of the film.  While I can see the merits of doing so, would it be possible?  How would you distribute this version? A cinema release seems unlikely, Would you do it on DVD?  On the Internet?  We know that a company, I can't remember the name at the moment holds the rights do distribute the original film on DVD, but we don't know exactly what rights they hold?  For example, if it turns out that they hold exclusive rights for all non-theatrical distribution of the film and all derivative works in digital works for a long period  then that would pretty much put a stop to any annotated version being distributed.  If they simply hold the rights to distribute the original film on DVD then that might not be a problem, but we simply don't know.  They might still try to stop the distribution of an 'annotated' version, which contains the content of the original film, by another party.

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 995
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,17:47   

Mummy!  Wolfie is trying to take away my chew toy, Mummy!

Mummy, make Wolfie stop!  Poopy-head Wolfie!

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 995
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,17:51   

Hey, Stephen, try a little Google-Fu.  After all, it is the next century.

Expelled Exposed

The short answer to your question is: All of the above.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,18:09   

stephen don't waste your money on that rag i am sure that if get yourself a phonebook you can probably find a nearby church youth group who will be viewing the thing in the basement of the fellowship hall.  the thing is that was the target audience all along, rubes and suckers.  and if you buy the thing, well, that'll be you too.

ben stein
Quote
Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.


yeah that's about all you need to know.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,18:16   

Quote (Stephen Furley @ June 25 2011,16:48)
   
Quote (Kristine @ June 25 2011,12:16)
     
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 25 2011,12:07)
You haven't addressed my "shoe on the other foot" analogy, Kristine. And I'm sorry, your attempt at dispassionate interest in archiving the material fails to convince. This is all about vindictiveness. And I don't mean to single you out in that. Let's just call a spade a spade.

I have addressed it, Kevin. I told Richard to save everything.

You or anyone can come out with an annotated version if you want. After all, Expelled was a particularly vile annotation of Origin of Species.

Quit while you're behind.

Kristine,

I haven't seen this film; I tried to buy a copy while I was out today, but couldn't find one.  Can you please explain in what way you think it is 'particularly vile'?  I know that Richard was unhappy about the way in which the film was represented (misrepresented?) when he was requested to give an interview; is it this that you are unhappy about, or the content of the film itself?  Do you claim that the content of the film was untrue, or that it was simply selective in the truth which it chose to present?

What was the content in the film relating to the holocaust which many people seem to have found particularly objectionable?  Was this attempting to put the blame for the holocaust on atheism/humanism/secularism?  If so, this would be ridiculous, but certainly not unique to this film; such claims have been made by many in the past.

What do you hope to find if it is possible to buy the rights to this film, and materials relating to it?  Is it not likely that much of this material not included in the film itself would have been discarded when the production was completed?

There has been considerable discussion about the possibility of producing an 'annotated' version of the film.  While I can see the merits of doing so, would it be possible?  How would you distribute this version? A cinema release seems unlikely, Would you do it on DVD?  On the Internet?  We know that a company, I can't remember the name at the moment holds the rights do distribute the original film on DVD, but we don't know exactly what rights they hold?  For example, if it turns out that they hold exclusive rights for all non-theatrical distribution of the film and all derivative works in digital works for a long period  then that would pretty much put a stop to any annotated version being distributed.  If they simply hold the rights to distribute the original film on DVD then that might not be a problem, but we simply don't know.  They might still try to stop the distribution of an 'annotated' version, which contains the content of the original film, by another party.

Stephen, are you under the mistaken impression that I administer or own the Talk Origins site? Your questions regarding distribution should be directed there. I have nothing to do with the site other than to have read it and have donated to it.

What is "particularly vile"? Are you joking? How many other films made this direct link between the theory of evolution and the Holocaust?

How about this review: "One of the sleaziest documentaries to arrive in a very long time"?

How about a deliberately taken-out-of-context quote from Charles Darwin:
   
Quote
   With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick, thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. Hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

without including this important statement which follows:
   
Quote
The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, if so urged by hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature.


How about using movie extras to portray "Pepperdine University students" to which Ben Stein in shown addressing as if he were giving a "speech"? Is this standard procedure in a documentary?

The movie is one lie after another. That is not vile?

I have seen the film, Stephen - I was the one who told PZ about the screening, and I was there when he was thrown out right before my eyes. Then that same scary security guard came and sat right behind me after I asked producer Mark Mathis a question.

Have you read the auction notice? You would find that it includes all ephemera related to the film. My suggesting that such ephemera has been or is being destroyed got me called "paranoid" by the writer of the film, Kevin Miller.

Why do you single me out in this manner? I am not bidding on this film myself. Who are you? Where did you come from?

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,18:21   

Incidentally, that whole rotten turd of a film is now on YouTube.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,20:59   

Quote (Doc Bill @ June 25 2011,18:47)
Mummy!  Wolfie is trying to take away my chew toy, Mummy!

Mummy, make Wolfie stop!  Poopy-head Wolfie!

*Dodges rolled up newspaper*
*tucks tail*
*lowers head*
*whines plaintively*
*tears up sofa while you aren't looking*

--------------
I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 995
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,21:53   

Quote (Wolfhound @ June 25 2011,20:59)
Quote (Doc Bill @ June 25 2011,18:47)
Mummy!  Wolfie is trying to take away my chew toy, Mummy!

Mummy, make Wolfie stop!  Poopy-head Wolfie!

*Dodges rolled up newspaper*
*tucks tail*
*lowers head*
*whines plaintively*
*tears up sofa while you aren't looking*

You forgot

*pees on pillow
*shits in coffee cup
*chews up iPhone charger
*subscribes to Skeptical Inquirer

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 995
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,23:22   

Ha ha!  PZ just picked up the story and Kev-11 is being dragged through the muck he raked.

Sucks to be you, Kevvers!

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,23:26   

just think kevin, if Crossroads and Dr. Dino riiiiiiiides agaaaaaaaaaain (or whatever the fuck you were going to call it) had made you some money perhaps you could have bought this aborted tumor yourself and saved yourself all of this public butthurt

own it, you sombitch

bwaahahahahahahahaha

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1946
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 26 2011,00:18   

Quote (Doc Bill @ June 25 2011,15:51)
Hey, Stephen, try a little Google-Fu.  After all, it is the next century.

Expelled Exposed

The short answer to your question is: All of the above.

And then there is the special NCSE Reports issue, Expelled Exposed:

http://ncse.com/rncse/28/5-6

Which just happened to include;

"Why Invent the Crystal"
http://ncse.com/rncse/28/5-6/why-re-invent-crystal

AKA, "Why Polish My Star?"

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Stephen Furley



Posts: 4
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 26 2011,04:41   

Quote (Kristine @ June 25 2011,18:16)
Quote (Stephen Furley @ June 25 2011,16:48)
     
Quote (Kristine @ June 25 2011,12:16)
     
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 25 2011,12:07)
You haven't addressed my "shoe on the other foot" analogy, Kristine. And I'm sorry, your attempt at dispassionate interest in archiving the material fails to convince. This is all about vindictiveness. And I don't mean to single you out in that. Let's just call a spade a spade.

I have addressed it, Kevin. I told Richard to save everything.

You or anyone can come out with an annotated version if you want. After all, Expelled was a particularly vile annotation of Origin of Species.

Quit while you're behind.

Kristine,

I haven't seen this film; I tried to buy a copy while I was out today, but couldn't find one.  Can you please explain in what way you think it is 'particularly vile'?  I know that Richard was unhappy about the way in which the film was represented (misrepresented?) when he was requested to give an interview; is it this that you are unhappy about, or the content of the film itself?  Do you claim that the content of the film was untrue, or that it was simply selective in the truth which it chose to present?

What was the content in the film relating to the holocaust which many people seem to have found particularly objectionable?  Was this attempting to put the blame for the holocaust on atheism/humanism/secularism?  If so, this would be ridiculous, but certainly not unique to this film; such claims have been made by many in the past.

What do you hope to find if it is possible to buy the rights to this film, and materials relating to it?  Is it not likely that much of this material not included in the film itself would have been discarded when the production was completed?

There has been considerable discussion about the possibility of producing an 'annotated' version of the film.  While I can see the merits of doing so, would it be possible?  How would you distribute this version? A cinema release seems unlikely, Would you do it on DVD?  On the Internet?  We know that a company, I can't remember the name at the moment holds the rights do distribute the original film on DVD, but we don't know exactly what rights they hold?  For example, if it turns out that they hold exclusive rights for all non-theatrical distribution of the film and all derivative works in digital works for a long period  then that would pretty much put a stop to any annotated version being distributed.  If they simply hold the rights to distribute the original film on DVD then that might not be a problem, but we simply don't know.  They might still try to stop the distribution of an 'annotated' version, which contains the content of the original film, by another party.

Stephen, are you under the mistaken impression that I administer or own the Talk Origins site? Your questions regarding distribution should be directed there. I have nothing to do with the site other than to have read it and have donated to it.

What is "particularly vile"? Are you joking? How many other films made this direct link between the theory of evolution and the Holocaust?

How about this review: "One of the sleaziest documentaries to arrive in a very long time"?

How about a deliberately taken-out-of-context quote from Charles Darwin:
     
Quote
   With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick, thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. Hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

without including this important statement which follows:
     
Quote
The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, if so urged by hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature.


How about using movie extras to portray "Pepperdine University students" to which Ben Stein in shown addressing as if he were giving a "speech"? Is this standard procedure in a documentary?

The movie is one lie after another. That is not vile?

I have seen the film, Stephen - I was the one who told PZ about the screening, and I was there when he was thrown out right before my eyes. Then that same scary security guard came and sat right behind me after I asked producer Mark Mathis a question.

Have you read the auction notice? You would find that it includes all ephemera related to the film. My suggesting that such ephemera has been or is being destroyed got me called "paranoid" by the writer of the film, Kevin Miller.

Why do you single me out in this manner? I am not bidding on this film myself. Who are you? Where did you come from?

Kristine,

I don't single you out, I'm simply trying to find out what it is that people find so offensive about this film; as I said, I haven't seen it, and wasn't able to buy a copy from the HMV store when I tried yesterday. I'd never even heard of the film, or Stein, until I was watching a clip from a Richard Dawkins lecture on Youtube recently where the 'Sexpelled' parody of this was shown, after which Richard explained that it was a parody of the film 'Expelled'.  I know that the film claims to be about how people are being harassed and discriminated against for their beliefs, and I know that Richard feels that the film was misrepresented when he was requested to give an interview, and that is as much as I know.

I read the discussion of the proposal to bid for the rights and existing materials of the film, and wanted to know more before deciding whether to make a donation.

I did read the auction notice; it seems that you get all existing materials, but it's not known what actually does exist. 'Lavenders', 'Colour reversals' and 'Matrices' were all mentioned, but none of these would have been likely to have been used in the making of this film.  Indeed, matrices were used for Technicolor imbibition printing, a process which has not been used for years, and when it was used the matrices remained the property of Technicolor, were held by them in their vaults, and could not be sold.  It seems that the list of elements in the auction notice is just a standard one which they would use for any film; if these exist they are included in the sale, but there is no indication as to what actually existed for this film, what may have already been discarded, and what still exists.  It is also unclear exactly what the terms of the contract for the video distribution of the original film are, and whether these would impose any restriction on what may be done with the film by whoever wins the rights at auction.

You obviously know considerably more about this film than I do; you described it as being 'particularly vile', I simply wanted to know what it was about this film which you, and many others, find so offensive, and also what benefit there would be if it were possible to buy the rights to this film at auction.

  
Cubist



Posts: 333
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 26 2011,05:55   

Mr. Furley, your ignorance of the content of the film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed is not particularly unusual, because said film came and went from theatres without leaving much, if any, evidence of its passage. The reason some people want to bid on a commercial failure like Expelled is because of its role as part of the deceitful propaganda machine that is the Intelligent Design movement, said movement itself being a wholly-owned subsidiary of the greater Creationist movement.
The film misrepresents ID-pushers as being the innocent victims of a dogmatically intolerant Darwinist establishment, an establishment which the film falsely portrays as bearing responsibility for the horrors of Nazi Germany. This alone, I think, would adequately account for the somewhat intense reactions the film inspires among some members of the reality-based community, but the offenses of Expelled only start there.
Google is your friend, Mr. Furley. It is, perhaps, worth noting that when I googled for expelled: no intelligence allowed just now, the website Expelled Exposed, which documents in detail the film's myriad layers of deceit and outright lying, came up in the top five results, and the first such result was the Wikipedia page on Expelled, which provides a good deal of information on the film's contents and the various controversies surrounding the film. It is unclear why you neglected to google for expelled: no intelligence allowed yourself, but perhaps you may find the information in those two websites to be of some small interest.
The benefits to be gained from purchasing a piece of shit like Expelled are, in the main, those associated with revealing 'the man behind the curtain'. One proposal which has met with some approval, is that an 'annotated version' of Expelled be created and released, a version which accompanies the film's every lie and misrepresentation with the truth about whatever the film just decieved its audience about.

  
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