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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3322
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,17:21   

Quote (Glen Davidson @ Sep. 14 2011,16:57)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,16:32)
 
Quote (Alan Fox @ Sep. 14 2011,12:06)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,06:37)
I don't often go to UD. Raw idiocy is just too much these days. But I had a question that only UD could answer (no I didn't find an answer).

But this on the home page struck me as... curious.

Quote
Do intelligent desgn theorists need the supernatural just to leave room for a little mystery in life?
http://www.uncommondescent.com/origin-of-life/do-intelligent-deign-theorists-need-the-supernatural-just-to-leave-room-for-a-little-myste







ry-in-life/

Perhaps intelligence should use a little more intelligent design.

Does anyone have contact information for O'Leary? Surprisingly, there is no way to contact anyone via the UD website.

Hope you're not planning any cyber stalking!

Search for "Post Darwinist" and check her profile where she lists a contact email.

Ask a question, get a typical non-answer. Thanks, Useless.

denyseoleary@gmail.com

It was at her blog site. I can only assume that it's current, but you'll have to find out. I have no intention to try to contact her.

Glen Davidson

Sorry.  That might have been misconstrued.

I did e-mail O'Leary.  I got, from her, a typical non-answer.  She is... indeed... useless.

I apologize to those I might have offended here.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4368
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,18:21   

Quote
It is kind of curious that they had no smoke detector.


Curious? Or planned that way by the Darwinists and/or Cabal of CBEB's????

What's curious is that the dog did nothing in the night...

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1365
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,18:47   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,12:21)
 
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Sep. 14 2011,16:57)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,16:32)
Quote (Alan Fox @ Sep. 14 2011,12:06)
 
Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 14 2011,06:37)
I don't often go to UD. Raw idiocy is just too much these days. But I had a question that only UD could answer (no I didn't find an answer).

But this on the home page struck me as... curious.

 
Quote
Do intelligent desgn theorists need the supernatural just to leave room for a little mystery in life?
http://www.uncommondescent.com/origin-of-life/do-intelligent-deign-theorists-need-the-supernatural-just-to-leave-room-for-a-little-myste










ry-in-life/

Perhaps intelligence should use a little more intelligent design.

Does anyone have contact information for O'Leary? Surprisingly, there is no way to contact anyone via the UD website.

Hope you're not planning any cyber stalking!

Search for "Post Darwinist" and check her profile where she lists a contact email.

Ask a question, get a typical non-answer. Thanks, Useless.

denyseoleary@gmail.com

It was at her blog site. I can only assume that it's current, but you'll have to find out. I have no intention to try to contact her.

Glen Davidson

Sorry. That might have been misconstrued.

I did e-mail O'Leary. I got, from her, a typical non-answer. She is... indeed... useless.

I apologize to those I might have offended here.

That's not good enough. As I was seriously not offended at all, I demand a notpology!!!

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,20:08   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Sep. 14 2011,18:05)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 14 2011,11:27)
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 14 2011,11:23)
 
Quote
Except for the obvious fact that our support for Israel pisses off the Arabs.


I would call wrong on that one. Israel support doesn't piss off Arabs. It pisses off Muslims. There is quite a few Arabs that happen to be Jews as well.

Interesting. I stand corrected.

Would many Jewish Arabs be living in the countries that seem to be supporting militant Muslims? Could you speculate on the percentage or the raw numbers?

Actually, there are many Arabic Christians in the region.

Which, in the end, would come down to the governments being pissed off, not the ethnicity as a whole. There are also arab atheists (not very outspoken, though, because of the "apostasy punishable by death" thing and all).

Now, we could also argue that all of them are semitic, so basically it's just another of those religious wars we've heard about before...

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,20:19   

I never understood the Semitic part. It seems to be anti-Jewish.

And as far as I can tell it all boils down to the fact that Jews have been successful.

At a time when Christians and Muslims could not charge interest, Jews lent money at interest. Pretty much bankrupted Europe due to the tendency of monarchs to borrow money to finance wars.

European Jews also went into arts and sciences and encouraged academic learning.

So all the people whose religion hobbled them were just envious.

I believe they still design many if not most modern computer chips. They did until recently.

--------------
lets not make a joke of ourselves.

Pat Robertson

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,20:30   

Well, when you are forbiden to take part in a shitload of business ventures, you get very good at mastering what you are allowed to do. That's what they did in Europe, and now continue to do. Can't blame them. The reasons they were forbiden? They killed Jebus! (I am not familiar with other reasons why).

As for Semitic, it's all related to language, culture and ethnicity. Basically, all the people originated around the Jordanian/Israely/Arab Peninsula are semitic.

Linky

Admitedly, there's been some watering-down of the original ethnicity. My girlfriend, for exemple, is jewish. She's blond with blue eyes...

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,20:37   

Quote
Well, when you are forbiden to take part in a shitload of business ventures, you get very good at mastering what you are allowed to do


Europeans have always looked down their noses at businessmen and shopkeepers. (My source for this otherwise unreferenced factoid is BBC costume dramas.)

Islam still seems to be in the dark ages regarding science, music and art. Sad, because it wasn't always so.

--------------
lets not make a joke of ourselves.

Pat Robertson

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,20:45   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 15 2011,02:37)
Quote
Well, when you are forbiden to take part in a shitload of business ventures, you get very good at mastering what you are allowed to do


Europeans have always looked down their noses at businessmen and shopkeepers. (My source for this otherwise unreferenced factoid is BBC costume dramas.)

Islam still seems to be in the dark ages regarding science, music and art. Sad, because it wasn't always so.

Islam has, so far, the best banking system because they don't allow interests on loans and such.


Wait, did I just say something positive about religion? Get Louis!!!

ETA: Islam was top notch in science, medicin and maths until some dumbfucker in the XIth century decided this all was haram. I'll try to fish out his name...

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2011,23:28   

Lewontin!

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,01:47   

To get around loan interest, Islamic banks have various financial devices that have the same effect.

--------------
lets not make a joke of ourselves.

Pat Robertson

  
BillB



Posts: 363
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,02:18   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 15 2011,07:47)
To get around loan interest, Islamic banks have various financial devices that have the same effect.

I guess it is a bit like Christianity and the whole 'thou shalt not kill' thing. There are various theological devices that make it permissible. After all, why let a commandment from God get in the way of a good old religious war.

  
Quack



Posts: 1778
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,03:04   

A workable monetary system without interest is possible, but will world casino have it?

I read the book many years ago.

--------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool.
                                                                                               Richard Feynman

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,03:32   

Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 15 2011,02:45)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 15 2011,02:37)
 
Quote
Well, when you are forbiden to take part in a shitload of business ventures, you get very good at mastering what you are allowed to do


Europeans have always looked down their noses at businessmen and shopkeepers. (My source for this otherwise unreferenced factoid is BBC costume dramas.)

Islam still seems to be in the dark ages regarding science, music and art. Sad, because it wasn't always so.

Islam has, so far, the best banking system because they don't allow interests on loans and such.


Wait, did I just say something positive about religion? Get Louis!!!

ETA: Islam was top notch in science, medicin and maths until some dumbfucker in the XIth century decided this all was haram. I'll try to fish out his name...

In all seriousness there are plenty of positive things to say about religion, and plenty of negative things to say about non-religion.

So?

It still doesn't mean there's a magic man in the sky who watches you masturbate, or whatever incoherent, evidence lacking proposition someone wishes to believe in.

I've got nothing against religion, let it flourish as a personal enterprise. As Thomas Jefferson said:

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

The minute someone wants to break my leg or pick my pocket on behalf of their deity, ideology, or whatever, you bet your backside on a barbeque I'm going to ask a few awkward questions. The "goddiness" of it is irrelevant. Having the NHS support homeopathy (however small this support is, it's non-zero) is just as important in principle as removing the (pseudo) compulsory act of Christian worship in UK schools, or reducing the stranglehold that various religious groups have on schools, or combating Nadine Fucking Dorries (spit)*.

Not on any specific issue you understand, just combating Nadine Fucking Dorries (spit). She is the living avatar of what should be combated in so many ways it's simpler just to combat everything and take the hit if it ever occurs that she alights on the right side of an issue simply by chance.

Louis

*That is her full title. Google is your friend, I refuse to link to her blog.

--------------
Bye.

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,03:55   

I had never heard of Nadine Fucking Dorries (spit). I just made a few researches, then had to go sit down in a quiet place for a little while. Also, I think I vomited in my mouth a bit.

And Louis, this was not a statement of your hate of religion, it was just the name that poped up first when I wrote that :)

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,04:18   

Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 15 2011,09:55)
I had never heard of Nadine Fucking Dorries (spit). I just made a few researches, then had to go sit down in a quiet place for a little while. Also, I think I vomited in my mouth a bit.

And Louis, this was not a statement of your hate of religion, it was just the name that poped up first when I wrote that :)

Oh I know THAT! I was just a) being mildly comedic and b) using it as an excuse to mention Nadine Fucking Dorries (spit).

You allowed me a (leaden and entirely shoe-horned) segue into my rampant distaste for the person in question and her views. Fundafuckwits: we have them in the UK too.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,06:33   

Lewontin!

Wherein KairosFlatus implicitly acknowledges that he has been quotemining Lewontin, and tries to justify doing so.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,07:59   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 15 2011,07:33)
Lewontin!

Wherein KairosFlatus implicitly acknowledges that he has been quotemining Lewontin, and tries to justify doing so.

what a cunt

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell.Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1957
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,10:30   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 14 2011,18:37)
Islam still seems to be in the dark ages regarding science, music and art. Sad, because it wasn't always so.

I don't think that there are any particular problems with music and Islam. Most popular music is quite national/ethnic anyways. I am rather fond of the classical oud, but there is some good modern stuff as well.

Our colleague Taner Edis has a book out (2007) "An Illusion of Harmony: Science and Religion in Islam," that addressed the problem of fundamentalism and science. I only started reading it last night. So far, I like it.

Edited by Dr.GH on Sep. 15 2011,08:30

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,10:46   

Quote
I don't think that there are any particular problems with music and Islam.


http://www.islam-qa.com/en....000

--------------
lets not make a joke of ourselves.

Pat Robertson

  
JohnW



Posts: 2273
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,10:55   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 15 2011,08:46)
Quote
I don't think that there are any particular problems with music and Islam.


http://www.islam-qa.com/en....0........000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....Qawwali

How many Christian sects disapprove of singing and dancing?

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,11:06   

Quote
How many Christian sects disapprove of singing and dancing?


I haven't mentioned Christianity, but I'm aware than the rather mainstream Methodists disapproved. I'm at a loss to recall any recent prohibitions by Christian nations.
I'm also quite aware that Islam is separate from Christianity in many of these issues by a hundred years or less.

In my own rather simple mind I speculate that much Islamic  militancy is a reaction to the rapid evolution of behavior among Muslims. Fundamentalists tend to surface in politics when social change is rapid.

What else is new?

--------------
lets not make a joke of ourselves.

Pat Robertson

  
JohnW



Posts: 2273
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,11:22   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 15 2011,09:06)
Quote
How many Christian sects disapprove of singing and dancing?


I haven't mentioned Christianity, but I'm aware than the rather mainstream Methodists disapproved. I'm at a loss to recall any recent prohibitions by Christian nations.
I'm also quite aware that Islam is separate from Christianity in many of these issues by a hundred years or less.

In my own rather simple mind I speculate that much Islamic militancy is a reaction to the rapid evolution of behavior among Muslims. Fundamentalists tend to surface in politics when social change is rapid.

What else is new?

Indeed.  My point was simply that it's wrong to assume "Islam" disapproves of music based on one source.  As with other religions, people can find scriptural justification for whatever God-given moral code they were planning to believe in anyway.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,12:35   

The problem I see, if I am correct, is that Islamic militancy is motivated by factors within the Islamic community and cannot be addressed or ameliorated by outsiders.

I suppose that evil, immoral westerners are providing satanic temptations, but that is unlikely to go away. We may broadcast satellite TV, but we do not install receivers in Muslim homes.

--------------
lets not make a joke of ourselves.

Pat Robertson

  
paragwinn



Posts: 401
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,12:40   

If one is trained in the argumentation of law, does that training carry over into philosophy or scientific investigation?

BarryA:
Quote
If a materialist believes that blind unguided natural forces can account for the design of living things, how could he ever argue that, in principle, it would require a miracle for an intelligent agent to replicate that design.
Now, what did he just do in that statement?

Quote
But facts and logic rarely stop our materialist opponents. Faced with an unanswerable argument, they usually resort to obfuscation tactics such as I just cant understand what the words you are using mean."
Chewbacca Defense!

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,12:43   

Moving on to a more useful topic, Jonathan M disputes that ERV insertions support common descent.

Linky

Quote
Some ID proponents have argued that, in spite of this striking appearance, the structure of the germ-cell production system makes it extremely unlikely that the inserts were accomplished by viruses, and thus these hitherto-thought-to-be ERV sequences are not, in fact, viral in origin at all. This is an interesting argument. It does seem somewhat unlikely that retroviral elements would be able to insert themselves literally hundreds of thousands of times into the germ cells without causing fatalistic damage to the host organism.


Quote
The second point worthy of note is that it shouldnt surprise us that ERV elements can be found occupying the same genetic loci across multiple taxa. This is indicative of the specificity of the target site preference.


--------------
lets not make a joke of ourselves.

Pat Robertson

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,12:44   

if a man shits into a grocery bag and leaves it under the couch and no one is home does it stink?

parsing the words of that queef for meaning is a bit like pleasuring yourself with a vegetable peeler

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell.Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,14:09   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Sep. 15 2011,07:59)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 15 2011,07:33)
Lewontin!

Wherein KairosFlatus implicitly acknowledges that he has been quotemining Lewontin, and tries to justify doing so.

what a cunt

Someone seems to have caused a constitutional crisis in the homeland at the very moment KF was gearing up for a massive outburst of pure logic.

He was last seen entering a phone booth.

--------------
lets not make a joke of ourselves.

Pat Robertson

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,16:05   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Sep. 15 2011,12:44)
parsing the words of that queef for meaning is a bit like pleasuring yourself with a vegetable peeler

Sounds like a job for Galapagos Finch!



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
BillB



Posts: 363
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,16:19   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 15 2011,20:09)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Sep. 15 2011,07:59)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 15 2011,07:33)
Lewontin!

Wherein KairosFlatus implicitly acknowledges that he has been quotemining Lewontin, and tries to justify doing so.

what a cunt

Someone seems to have caused a constitutional crisis in the homeland at the very moment KF was gearing up for a massive outburst of pure logic.

He was last seen entering a phone booth.

From what I remember of the few phone booths I entered in the past they seemed to be mostly used as an advertising space for 'escort services'.

Presumably KF felt a sudden urge for spiritual relief at the hands of a youthful nun.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2011,17:43   

Linky

--------------
lets not make a joke of ourselves.

Pat Robertson

  
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