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  Topic: Joe G.'s Tardgasm, How long can it last?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2010,14:45   

Joe.

Please use the EF to show the designed nature of any object you choose.

Then, using the same process, show the undesigned nature of a different object of your choice.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2010,14:46   

These are the foundation stones of ID (I guess), so please show how they are useful by giving detailed examples.

Thanks.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3304
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2010,15:43   

Quote (blipey @ April 06 2010,14:46)
These are the foundation stones of ID (I guess), so please show how they are useful by giving detailed examples.

Thanks.

I think 'stones' may be too strong a word.

The foundation of ID is soiled toilet paper that's been floating for two weeks.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2010,15:49   

Quote (OgreMkV @ April 06 2010,15:43)
Quote (blipey @ April 06 2010,14:46)
These are the foundation stones of ID (I guess), so please show how they are useful by giving detailed examples.

Thanks.

I think 'stones' may be too strong a word.

The foundation of ID is soiled toilet paper that's been floating for two weeks.

I was thinking that they had to have really "sizey" stones to advance ID....

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
Mindrover



Posts: 63
Joined: April 2010

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2010,15:53   

Quote (Mindrover @ April 04 2010,08:18)
 
Quote (Joe G @ April 03 2010,08:04)
1-The definition I provided is an example of specified information.

2-I then measured the information contained in that definition.

3- It was an EXAMPLE of how to measure SI to see if CSI is present.
Granting that SI can be measured, how much SI is required for CSI to be present?
Does CSI = Designed?

These are honest questions, I would hope for an answer devoid of invectives.

Just re-posting this so it is not lost amongst the other posts.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1956
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2010,17:12   

Quote (blipey @ April 06 2010,13:49)
Quote (OgreMkV @ April 06 2010,15:43)
Quote (blipey @ April 06 2010,14:46)
These are the foundation stones of ID (I guess), so please show how they are useful by giving detailed examples.

Thanks.

I think 'stones' may be too strong a word.

The foundation of ID is soiled toilet paper that's been floating for two weeks.

I was thinking that they had to have really "sizey" stones to advance ID....

More like rocks in their heads.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2010,20:42   

Quote (Dr.GH @ April 06 2010,17:12)
Quote (blipey @ April 06 2010,13:49)
Quote (OgreMkV @ April 06 2010,15:43)
 
Quote (blipey @ April 06 2010,14:46)
These are the foundation stones of ID (I guess), so please show how they are useful by giving detailed examples.

Thanks.

I think 'stones' may be too strong a word.

The foundation of ID is soiled toilet paper that's been floating for two weeks.

I was thinking that they had to have really "sizey" stones to advance ID....

More like rocks in their heads.

Kidney stones come to mind, or else big brass ones for claiming to know better than what actual facts and evidence shows.

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2010,21:25   

Quote (Mindrover @ April 06 2010,15:53)
These are honest questions, I would hope for an answer devoid of invectives.

I've seen the flame of hope
in the face of the hopeless
that was the biggest
heartbreak of all


-- Bruce Cockburn

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
FrankH



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,09:32   

Quote (Joe G @ April 06 2010,13:15)
Quote (FrankH @ April 03 2010,15:33)
Quote (Joe G @ April 03 2010,14:33)
Quote (OgreMkV @ April 03 2010,08:52)
So, how bout that challenge Joe?
I am ready-

Any time you want to start posting positive evidence for your position I will read it and respond.
Have you ever posted "positive evidence for ID" Joe?

I would like to see it.

As for "positive evidence for evolution", I give you this:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v440/n7085/full/nature04637.html

Yes Joe, this is Rocket Science and yes, it takes study to grasp it.  There are no quick or easy solutions.
Yes, Frank I have supported ID:

supporting ID

Also your support for evolution is a joke.

There isn't anything about blind, undirected processes.

Ya see ID is NOT anti-evolution.

Just anti- the blind watchmaker having sole dominion over evolutionary processes.
Hmmm,

Well Joe, I see no reason why you can't reproduce some of that work here.  The only thing is on your blog, you control the comment.  Here you can't.

Also, I didn't see anything for ID, not even the so called "peer-review" articles.  There is nothing about ID in any of the links.

Also, ID makes not 1 but 2 and more likely 3 unverified claims for ID:

1:  That there is a directed design.

2:  The the directed design is caused by some intelligence.

3:  That this intelligence is singular (and most who follow ID believe, no evidence at all, that this designer is their god or goddess).

Now, instead of just saying that what I brought to the table is a joke, please be so kind as to point out the flaw in the studies.  Excuse me for not just taking your word that it's a "joke" when you haven't shown where the errors are.

Evolution is not "blind chance".  There are feedback effects that "direct" evolution.  To say this "direction" has a goal is a sign of "intelligence" would be akin to saying that water going downhill is "directed by the intelligence of the hill" would not be correct.  In the same way ID fails at doing anything.

To go further, ID holds that some things are designed and others are not.  Yet there is no evidence for this.  Has anyone ever shown that EF and CSI have been demonstrated to determine design?  No?  But wait, you say they have?  Well, I've never seen it.  Perhaps you could give us an example.

Again, if you say it can without providing any evidence or show us how it is done, I will mark that EF and CSI don't work, despite any claims that it does by you.  Obviously if you can't do it and you support that postulate then like all other "thought experiments" such as "lower life forms (flies, worms, ants, etc) come about through rotting flesh" it would be wrong.

As for ID being anti-anything, it is anti-science.

--------------
Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

  
Henry J



Posts: 4058
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,13:01   

Quote
Even then EF and CSI have never been demonstrated to be able to show this.  No?  They have?  Well, I've never seen it.

Maybe those things have to make it through the filter before they can be specified as explanations of complex things?

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,14:24   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ April 03 2010,15:12)

Quote
Quote (Joe G @ April 03 2010,15:36)
As I said a person's size includes their height and weight.

Ok. It would follow that the size of a statue also includes its height and weight.

So, how much taller would plaster David have to be than original David to be the same size as original David?


Seems to me that Joe is saying that a plaster cast David could never be the same size as a marble David.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,15:45   

Quote (Robin @ April 07 2010,19:24)
[quote=Reciprocating Bill,April 03 2010,15:12][/quote]
Quote
Quote (Joe G @ April 03 2010,15:36)
As I said a person's size includes their height and weight.

Ok. It would follow that the size of a statue also includes its height and weight.

So, how much taller would plaster David have to be than original David to be the same size as original David?


Seems to me that Joe is saying that a plaster cast David could never be the same size as a marble David.

I'd go further. Unless comparing two objects of identical dimensions, temperatures, compositions, densities and positions in spacetime (relativistic distortions count, ya'll) no two objects in the entire universe are the same size.

Take that evolutionists.

I propose an experiment that Joe will enjoy. Joe bends over and jams objects up his arse and tells us if they are the same size. I propose the first two objects are a 1 kilogram block of osmium and a 1 kilogram black of splintery balsa wood. I'm guessing Joe will rapidly detect the differences in size.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,16:03   

Quote
I propose an experiment that Joe will enjoy. Joe bends over and jams objects up his arse and tells us if they are the same size. I propose the first two objects are a 1 kilogram block of osmium and a 1 kilogram black of splintery balsa wood. I'm guessing Joe will rapidly detect the differences in size.


I think I'd actually pay to see that!

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
JohnW



Posts: 2233
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,17:20   

Quote (Louis @ April 07 2010,13:45)
I propose an experiment that Joe will enjoy. Joe bends over and jams objects up his arse and tells us if they are the same size. I propose the first two objects are a 1 kilogram block of osmium and a 1 kilogram black of splintery balsa wood. I'm guessing Joe will rapidly detect the differences in size.

I see new opportunities for ID research here.  Abandon the Explanatory Filter and try the Excretionary Sphincter.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
FrankH



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,17:23   

Quote (JohnW @ April 07 2010,17:20)
Quote (Louis @ April 07 2010,13:45)
I propose an experiment that Joe will enjoy. Joe bends over and jams objects up his arse and tells us if they are the same size. I propose the first two objects are a 1 kilogram block of osmium and a 1 kilogram black of splintery balsa wood. I'm guessing Joe will rapidly detect the differences in size.
I see new opportunities for ID research here.  Abandon the Explanatory Filter and try the Excretionary Sphincter.

Well, Banana Boy already told us how well the banana fits.

Perhaps he'll do the research or publish the results of the tests he's already done.

--------------
Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4238
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,18:37   

Quote (Robin @ April 07 2010,15:24)
               
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ April 03 2010,15:12)

                 
Quote
                 
Quote (Joe G @ April 03 2010,15:36)
As I said a person's size includes their height and weight.

Ok. It would follow that the size of a statue also includes its height and weight.

So, how much taller would plaster David have to be than original David to be the same size as original David?


Seems to me that Joe is saying that a plaster cast David could never be the same size as a marble David.

That is indeed what he is saying. There are interesting consequences. For example, objects that are made of materials of differing density cannot be said to be either larger or smaller than one another.

Imagine a continuous series of 10,000 plaster Davids ranging from 1 inch to 1826 feet in height. Each is one tenth of one percent larger than the previous.

It follows from Joe's definition of size that no plaster David in that series is the same size of the original David, plus or minus 1/10th of 1%.

It also follows that no statue in that series is of smaller size, and no statue is of larger size, than marble David.

If Joe argues that the 1" tall plaster David is of smaller size and that the 1826 foot tall plaster David is of larger size than original marble David, then he clearly must accept that as we move up the series we pass at some point from statues that are smaller to those that are larger.

Joe, when does this occur? Which David can no longer be said to be smaller than the original, and which can be said to be larger? They can't be adjacent Davids if, as above, no David is the same size of the original David (plus or minus 1/10th of 1%). Given that they are not adjacent, what difference in height separates the last that may be said to be smaller than the first that may be said to be larger? Are those between neither smaller than, larger than, nor the same size as the original marble David?

Your only alternative is to deny that a 1" plaster David is of smaller size and, and also deny that a 1826 foot plaster David is of larger size than the original David.

IOW, Joe's definition of size is gibberish.

[edit to fix numberly stuff]

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,19:47   

Quote (FrankH @ April 07 2010,18:23)
Perhaps he'll do the research or publish the results of the tests he's already done.

Peer reviewed, no doubt.  *wink-wink*

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I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2010,19:57   

Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ April 07 2010,16:03)
Quote
I propose an experiment that Joe will enjoy. Joe bends over and jams objects up his arse and tells us if they are the same size. I propose the first two objects are a 1 kilogram block of osmium and a 1 kilogram black of splintery balsa wood. I'm guessing Joe will rapidly detect the differences in size.


I think I'd actually pay to see that!

Only from the front (or rather, just a facial...I mean, shot in the face...I mean, of the face...)

Actually, considering the amount of words Joe spends on bottoms, perhaps the test has been conducted.  I hesitate to try google....

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
FrankH



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2010,10:50   

Hey Joe,


Is information required to make the path for a river?

Would you describe DNA to be a linear language, such as English, German or a computer program or is it a 3D recursive language that is not just linear but does different things based on the structure and what comes later in the sequence can affect what was being formed back in the chain?

Looking forward to your answers.

--------------
Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2119
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2010,10:54   

Hey Joe, where you goin' with that tard in your brain?

(apologies to Jimi).

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2010,11:29   

[quote=Louis,April 07 2010,15:45][/quote]
Quote
Quote (Robin @ April 07 2010,19:24Seems to me that Joe is saying that a plaster cast David could [i)
never[/i] be the same size as a marble David.


I'd go further. Unless comparing two objects of identical dimensions, temperatures, compositions, densities and positions in spacetime (relativistic distortions count, ya'll) no two objects in the entire universe are the same size.


Yep...that seems to follow. Odd, but that's what he seems to be implying.

Quote
Take that evolutionists.

I propose an experiment that Joe will enjoy. Joe bends over and jams objects up his arse and tells us if they are the same size. I propose the first two objects are a 1 kilogram block of osmium and a 1 kilogram black of splintery balsa wood. I'm guessing Joe will rapidly detect the differences in size.

Louis



Oh he'll just call you a bunch of names, Louis, and then point out that since balsa has a different texture than the osmium, they can't possibly be the same size. Take that!  ;)

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10114
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2010,11:47   

Quote (fnxtr @ April 08 2010,10:54)
Hey Joe, where you goin' with that tard in your brain?

(apologies to Jimi).

He's going way down South, way down where a man can be free (from the tyranny of methodological naturalism)

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Mindrover



Posts: 63
Joined: April 2010

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2010,13:44   

Since he wasn't answering over here, I went to his blog and asked my questions (my follow-ups are italicized).
 
Quote
But wouldn't this lend credence to the critics?

Why would it?

If the "critics" applied their "criticism" equally they would be attacking the ToE too.

If something is defined with 100, characters+it would meet the 500 bit threshold for CSI.

This is true- as long as all the characters are necessary.

If it can be defined with fewer than 100 characters, but is designed, why would it not have CSI?

500 bits of SI = CSI- period- according to "No Fee Lunch".

If it has CSI, but contains less than 500 bits of information, how is this number a useful threshold?

It cannot have CSI and be less than 500 bits of SI.

It can be designed and have less than 500 bits of SI.

As for a "useful threshold"- I don't even know if that is what Dembski was after, but CSI is greater than all the probabilistic resources in the universe.

I think that is all Dembski was after.
So.
SI >= 500 = CSI = Designed
SI < 500 != CSI = Possibly Designed

Even ignoring how SI is generated, this is nonsense. This type of "logic" is perfectly in step with his "hail is not made of water" diatribe.

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2010,16:52   

Yes.  JoeG receives many votes each year in the Stupidest Person in the World contest.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2010,20:49   

Joe G. sighting at exactly 1:00 in this video.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
digitus impudicus



Posts: 62
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2010,23:47   

Joe, I'm bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbaaaaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!

Have any new misconceptions about the Buick GN/GNX from the 80's????

  
didymos



Posts: 1825
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 17 2010,02:26   

Quote (blipey @ April 16 2010,14:52)
Yes.  JoeG receives many votes each year in the Stupidest Person in the World contest.

Is there a Stupidest Person Ever contest?  'Cause I think he could take it, easy.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2119
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 17 2010,12:14   

Isn't it just about time for another "I know you are but what am I, asshole?" drive-by?

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
rhmc



Posts: 340
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 17 2010,13:31   

Quote (digitus impudicus @ April 17 2010,00:47)
Joe, I'm bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbaaaaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!

Have any new misconceptions about the Buick GN/GNX from the 80's????

he claimed it was a Dodge.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1956
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 17 2010,13:33   

Quote (fnxtr @ April 17 2010,10:14)
Isn't it just about time for another "I know you are but what am I, asshole?" drive-by?

I think they only happen every 5 days +/- 1 day. Still collecting data.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
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