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stevestory



Posts: 8883
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,22:49   

Quote (keiths @ Nov. 12 2007,22:49)
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 12 2007,20:00)
I've got a little bit of hearing damage and I probably couldn't tell my setup from an extravagant one anyway. And given how allergic audiophiles are to double-blind tests, some of them probably couldn't either.

Have you been following [URL=http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/calling-bullshit/updated-journalist-accepts-1-million-challenge-do-7250-cables-sound-better-or-not-311034.p

hp?retitled]this amusing battle[/URL] between James Randi and fans of the $7250 Pear Anjou stereo cables?

Yes I have, actually. A friend remarked, "I'm going to claim my cables are saturated in helium and retire after selling a few $50,000 pairs to these idiots."

   
stevestory



Posts: 8883
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,22:55   

Quote (clamboy @ Nov. 12 2007,23:10)
Quote (keiths @ Nov. 12 2007,21:49)
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 12 2007,20:00)
I've got a little bit of hearing damage and I probably couldn't tell my setup from an extravagant one anyway. And given how allergic audiophiles are to double-blind tests, some of them probably couldn't either.

Have you been following [URL=http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/calling-bullshit/updated-journalist-accepts-1-million-challenge-do-7250-cables-sound-better-or-not-311034.p


hp?retitled]this amusing battle[/URL] between James Randi and fans of the $7250 Pear Anjou stereo cables?

Oh my, yes! Honestly, Randi be danged, I have found the Pears to be *the* cables through which to play the split LP "Earslaughter" by Extreme Noise Terror and Chaos U.K. They bring out the warmth in E.N.T.'s "Bullshit Propaganda", as well as enhancing the tastes of oak and cherry found amid the high ranges of the entire 12".

And, of course, those 1210s are de rigeurwhen listening to Sore Throat's "Unhindered by Talent," as well as their magnum opus "Disgrace to the Corpse of Sid".

I hope this post is a joke, because it's f'n funny.

   
stevestory



Posts: 8883
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,22:59   

I remember the last pair of Oakley sunglasses I bought. $120. They came with a spectrograph of wavelengths they block. Nice little graph. At the time I was doing some biophysics research that utilized an IR spectrometer. I positioned the setup to evaluate some cheap Target sunglasses I'd bought, and, confirming the well-known-fact that basically all plastics block nearly all UV light, promptly dispensed with buying expensive sunglasses.

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4471
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,23:00   

Up until 1998, I could detect a 20 kHz tone. I was disappointed the following year to discover that 14 kHz was my new top-end.

I haven't pulled out the tone generator recently to test. I think I'm afraid of what I would learn. But I find my music-listening needs are pretty much fulfilled by convenient MP3 player technology and good headphones or amplified speakers. This past January, I dug out my turntable, got a replacement belt, and digitized the LPs that I either wanted to hear shortly or figured that I was never going to see in CD format anyway. (I don't suppose the Temple City Kazoo Orchestra is simply biding their time on a release.) The turntable and my few remaining pieces of component stereo stuff (minus a cassette deck that I kept) went to a friend and the LPs went to Half-Price Books.

I do get a kick out of wandering around the high-end audiophile areas at CES, though. It's a place where one can find BS stacked up almost as high as in antievolution sources, but they certainly have antievolution beat on the pricing. $800 for a six-foot "power interconnect", anyone? That's a "power cord" to the rest of us, and in the unlikely event that I get a bunch of component audiophile gear at home sometime, I will happily use the $5 sort of "power interconnect" to plug it into the wall, which after all is wired with the cheapest Romex the contractor at the time could manage to locate, and delivers power engineered by people working hourly for my local municipality.

One thing that has been amusing for some time is that high-end equipment manufacturers like to use bleeding-edge light sources for "power-on" indicators, even though this has absolutely no relation to the sound quality of the system, and a simple, cheap red LED would continue to do as fine a job today as they did back in the 1970s. I think it was around 2000 that blue LEDs had finally become available in consumer applications, and suddenly every system's power-on indicator light simply had to be a blue LED.

I wonder if they will halt there, or if they will continue on to using UV-emitting LEDs, possibly with a fluorescent surround to show it off.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
stevestory



Posts: 8883
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,23:08   

My hearing damage is much more acute. All those good times as a young redneck blasting shotguns, and being right handed, resulted in a number of comments that the left hand speaker must be especially weak. It wasn't til I was at MEPS in Jacksonville, Fla, and they remarked, "-20 dB in left ear" that I realized it wasn't the speakers that were malfunctional....

   
stevestory



Posts: 8883
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,23:17   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Nov. 13 2007,00:00)
$800 for a six-foot "power interconnect", anyone? That's a "power cord" to the rest of us, and in the unlikely event that I get a bunch of component audiophile gear at home sometime, I will happily use the $5 sort of "power interconnect" to plug it into the wall, which after all is wired with the cheapest Romex the contractor at the time could manage to locate, and delivers power engineered by people working hourly for my local municipality.

Apologies to the kiddies for the profanity, but here's an actual quote from a (real) audiophile friend last week: "Yeah, power cables. Jesus. Some idiot was telling me about how much bass his power cable had. 'Oh, feel the bass in this cable.' I didn't have the heart to tell him his special bassy power cable was on one side of the wall jack, and on the other was the cheapest aluminum shit the electrician could buy. This is like those African wood cable stands. Fucking idiots have too much money."

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4238
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,23:19   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Nov. 13 2007,00:00)
Up until 1998, I could detect a 20 kHz tone. I was disappointed the following year to discover that 14 kHz was my new top-end.

I haven't pulled out the tone generator recently to test. I think I'm afraid of what I would learn.

I'm 55 and my hearing tops out at about 14 kHz. My right ear does very slightly better than my left, apparently (14 kHz versus 13.5).

But if IIRC the decision was made to filter FM stereo above 15kHz (to allow headroom for the mulitplex carrier) following extensive blind studies that showed that most listeners could not distinguish between music reproduced with content above 15 kHz and that which did not.

At any rate, there's a lot of sweetness to enjoy below 14 kHz.  

My most recent source of sweetness: approximately 400 recently acquired LPs, all classical and most in excellent condition.





--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
stevestory



Posts: 8883
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,23:23   

I've heard that tubes and vinyl have pleasant even harmonics, while solid state stuff have unpleasant odd harmonics. Anyone know if this is true?

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,23:42   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Nov. 12 2007,23:00)
This past January, I dug out my turntable, got a replacement belt, and digitized the LPs that I either wanted to hear shortly or figured that I was never going to see in CD format anyway.

I am not quite the audiophile that y'all are, but I do have a number of LPs that I would like to digitize due to lack of availability in mp3 format.  Given that I have a working turntable, is it possible to get set up to digitize with minimal cost?

It may end up being cost effective just to use a service, but there is a certain appeal to DIY.

Quote
(I don't suppose the Temple City Kazoo Orchestra is simply biding their time on a release.)


Ya think?    ;)

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4238
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2007,23:58   

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 13 2007,00:23)
I've heard that tubes and vinyl have pleasant even harmonics, while solid state stuff have unpleasant odd harmonics. Anyone know if this is true?

That's the theory vis tubes, although not vinyl. Some argue that well designed solid state and tube amplifiers sound equivalent until overdriven. The harmonic distortion generated by tubes near clipping is 2nd order versus 3rd and higher for SS, and is therefore less noticeable and less objectionable.

There are other differences that relate to the interaction between amplifiers and speakers of varying designs; speakers often present very complex loads, with impedance that varies wildly with frequency, so there are significant speaker - amplifier interactions. Additionally, SS equipment typically presents a damping factor to a speaker an order of magnitude higher than does tube equipment, which gives it much more control over bass performance - good for some speaker designs (e.g. acoustic suspension), bad for others (horns, bass reflex, ported designs).  

The bottom line is that matching speaker to amplifier is often more important than the characteristics of individual components. All my stuff is quite vintage, and matches well.  

The advantage of vinyl is resolution. The "redbook" CD data format reflects some very serious and audible compromises that limit the resolution of the sound, particularly at high frequencies. It is not that digital is inherently inferior - but rather the sampling and data formats selected in the early '80s for CDs, which was adapted to the realities of the computer power that could be mass produced for a consumer device at that time, introduced limitations.  

Practically speaking, I find that well engineered vinyl recordings retain a "silkiness" in massed strings, a high frequency "sheen" with brushed cymbals, and a purity with voices and woodwinds that I've never heard in from a CD, at least not with my equipment. "Sound stage" (the sense of a space spreading between the speakers) is also subtly superior. When I first resuscitated my turntable and returned to vinyl I experienced a shock of recognition: Oh, THAT!!!  I hadn't heard THAT in 20 years, a set of qualities I had associated with high fidelity, but had forgotten. When CDs were first introduced we were all wowed by the low noise floor, convenience, and lack of wear with repeated playing and didn't notice what we had lost. Mp3s are even worse, introducing an audible "edge" that I liken to a metallic taste in food. SACD and DVD digital audio are of far higher resolution and are very close to analog.

The irony of the design selected for CDs is that a vastly superior system (although probably not practical to implement as a mass market device) existed at that time: Telarc's "Soundstream" digital recording system. Superior in every respect, those recordings are breathtaking in their quality, but there are just two ways to hear them the way they were intended: via the original LPs (recorded as soundstream digital masters and directly transfered to the vinyl cutting heads) or the re-releases now available as SACDs. They don't convert well to CDs because of artifacts introduced in mathematically converting data generated by the 50 kHz sampling rate of the soundstream system to the 44 kHz sampling rate of the Redbook format.

Here is a great little "tiny history" of High Fidelity that speaks to many of these issues.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
clamboy



Posts: 155
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2007,00:34   

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 12 2007,22:55)
Quote (clamboy @ Nov. 12 2007,23:10)
Quote (keiths @ Nov. 12 2007,21:49)
 
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 12 2007,20:00)
I've got a little bit of hearing damage and I probably couldn't tell my setup from an extravagant one anyway. And given how allergic audiophiles are to double-blind tests, some of them probably couldn't either.

Have you been following [URL=http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/calling-bullshit/updated-journalist-accepts-1-million-challenge-do-7250-cables-sound-better-or-not-311034.p



hp?retitled]this amusing battle[/URL] between James Randi and fans of the $7250 Pear Anjou stereo cables?

Oh my, yes! Honestly, Randi be danged, I have found the Pears to be *the* cables through which to play the split LP "Earslaughter" by Extreme Noise Terror and Chaos U.K. They bring out the warmth in E.N.T.'s "Bullshit Propaganda", as well as enhancing the tastes of oak and cherry found amid the high ranges of the entire 12".

And, of course, those 1210s are de rigeurwhen listening to Sore Throat's "Unhindered by Talent," as well as their magnum opus "Disgrace to the Corpse of Sid".

I hope this post is a joke, because it's f'n funny.

The truly funny part is that I actually own those albums, and take great joy in their playing. What is it that makes a human being revel in horrendous ear-splattering tonesofdestruction whirlwind tornado ultrahurricane pure brutality noise? Or does that question contain its own answer?

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2007,02:54   

{raises hand tentatively}

Ummm I am listening to the new Ween album on my PC with some £8.99 headphones whilst sat at my desk.*

{slinks away}

Louis

*Obviously at home I have the £4000 Krypton infused iridium/silver alloy cables By IntelligentDesignUberMusic. Those IDUM cables really make a big difference, they're so good I don't actually need a stereo I just sit my CD next to them and the warm musical tones flood out. As the slogan says: Everbody Knows IDUM.

--------------
Bye.

  
Nomad



Posts: 311
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2007,04:37   

I'm very much a member of the CD generation.  I'm highly skeptical of the claims of vinyl superiority.  I'm willing and indeed interested in carrying out a test sometime to see if I can hear the difference, but I've made my decision to stick with the digital world for practical matters.  I need a sound system that can fit in my pocket and plug into earphones, and also a medium that can fit into the sound system (factory spec, nothing fancy about it) in my car.  Perhaps if I had an audiophile buddy I might find myself spending all my time basking in the high end sound and I might ultimately make the transition myself.. but for now I get my music the new fangled digital way.

This thread has gotten me to look back through my collection of CDs that I've converted to mp3 (or AAC, or OGG) format for my mp3 player.  I'm currently listening to the soundtrack to the movie Heavy Metal.  Specifically, at the moment I've got Grand Funk Railroad on, playing Queen Bee.

But lately I haven't really been listening to much.  I'm kind of on a musical low point.  I'm both SEVERELY annoyed at the behavior of the RIAA and the labels supporting it, and also frustrated by a lack of quality music coming out from them.  I've enacted a most likely futile personal boycott of everything produced by any company that contributes to the RIAA.  It's not really that big a deal since I'm hard pressed to find anything new that I'm into anyway.  I've got hundreds of CDs from an earlier, voracious musical consumption period, but I'm hungry for something new.

BT (the artist) could probably break my will and get me to abandon my boycott by just coming out with a new album that includes a song he's performed live that I've heard through youtube.  It's terribly distorted, but it leaves me positively drooling for a chance to hear a proper version of it.  The song is Mad World, originally by Tears for Fears but more recently redone in a minimalist style for the movie Donnie Darko and then popularized in a commercial for a video game.
Instead he comes out with a minimalist CD/DVD thing.. why does he taunt me so?

If I may explain, I write fiction (mostly science fiction) as a hobby.  I do it in a stupid, withdrawn sort of way in that I've never shown anyone 99% of what I've written.  Like I said, it's a hobby, I do it for my own amusement.  But I need music for it, everything I write is fueled by the music I'm listening to at the time.  I have one story that I desperately want to make a movie out of, if nothing else just so I can use another BT song as the song that starts playing just at the end of the movie.  I hear the song and I can visualize exactly how the ending visuals would occur, to me the song has the visual cues embedded within it.

With my current musical low point my writing has also ground to a stop.  It's a REALLY annoying feeling.. like creative constipation.  Hmm.. and music is my laxative.. yeah.. that's.. unpleasant..  I think of it more like a performance enhancing drug.  Exciting new songs open up new ideas to me.


Anyway, if we're going to be mentioning favored artists all I can really say is that I have a weak spot for almost anything from the 80s.  Especially the pop and techno-pop of the era.  Level 42, Toto, Bruce Hornsby, Howard Jones, Glass Tiger, Wang Chung, Journey, New Order, Boston..

And then I'm also a big electronic music devotee, so I should also add The Prodigy, Orbital, Apollo 440, Daft Punk (almost exclusively Discovery, I don't really care for their other albums), and I guess I'll wrap that category up with William Orbit.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4238
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2007,07:07   

Quote (Nomad @ Nov. 13 2007,05:37)
I'm very much a member of the CD generation.  I'm highly skeptical of the claims of vinyl superiority.  I'm willing and indeed interested in carrying out a test sometime to see if I can hear the difference, but I've made my decision to stick with the digital world for practical matters.

Of course, CDs offer significant advantages over vinyl, including some sonic advantages (noise floor and dynamic range). I haven't played any LPs in my car lately, nor burned any. They're heavy, not very portable, and are easily damaged. Random access is arduous. And good equipment is required for good reproduction. There are many excellent CDs, and some LPs are poorly engineered and present mediocre sound. SACD is even better, and I own an SACD player.

That said, the advantages of vinyl I describe are very real, and in some respects not all that subtle, and it adds up to an emotional connection to some performances that is bleached out of many CD recordings.  Whether those advantages are worth the trouble is another question.

Indeed, convenience is clearly winning the day: although high density and truly high fidelity digital formats (SACD, DVD audio) have been available for a few years, they haven't been successful, as the world goes for the convenience of MP3s - which are significantly sonically inferior even to CDs.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2007,07:10   

Wow, what's with all this heavy technical stuff? I have no idea, nor do I really care about that, if it sounds good on whatever I play it on, then whatever I play it on is alright by me.

Personally I have a huge love of the old Madchester scene (no, that's not a typo despite what spell checker says), Stone Roses, Charlatans, Happy Mondays and all their ilk.  (for those who have no idea who I'm on about:
The Stone Roses although I urge caution for some of you, the lyrics can be somewhat....blasphemous, particularly in that song
The Charlatans
Happy Mondays
I also adore Inspiral Carpets Link.
Finally, Ian Brown, from the Stone Roses (hence the name, which I used first a few years ago to hide my real name somewhere and subsequently use everywhere, because it's easy) has a rather good solo career. Here's one of his, F.E.A.R.

Plus I love a lot of older music, big fan of the Beatles, Beach Boys, Buddy Holly, Johnny Cash, James Brown.... Quite a lot of different genres really, and loads of artists. Add a smattering of Classical in there too.

However, I almost entirely (almost) dislike Hip Hop and "new" R n B (although the actual RnB is awesome) and I can't stand most (but not all) Dance music.

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2007,07:35   

just listen to the sustain...





--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2007,08:59   

Nomad sez:

Quote
BT (the artist) could probably break my will and get me to abandon my boycott by just coming out with a new album that includes a song he's performed live that I've heard through youtube.


I like BT, I misremember him doing this remix:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsVlA_x6Ylk

Turns out it wasn't him. Still, very good tune. I Like the ride out out the end, it's the sound of nihilism to me. dial up to 5.19 - it's like a radioactive wind that blows through you. Now that's the sound of pointless atheism!  :)


Quote
And then I'm also a big electronic music devotee, so I should also add The Prodigy, Orbital, Apollo 440, Daft Punk (almost exclusively Discovery, I don't really care for their other albums), and I guess I'll wrap that category up with William Orbit.


Do you has liquid cool?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kCJ3k3zzGQ

its in ur ears makin u hapie.

William orbit is a genius, which is not a term to be thrown around lightly. I like all his stuff ('cept "Loadsamoney" for Harry enfield, which is utter gash) "Seagreen" and "Water from a vine leaf" are probably the most spiritual to me but Fascinating Rhythm is my fave. The sample from "Foxy lady" cracks me up.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2007,13:09   

Right now, I am listening to Duke Jupiter - The Band Played On.  This was a local (Rochester, NY) band that was getting national airplay and opening for some rock heavyweights in the late 70's and early 80's, but never quite broke through on their own.  It is pretty much straight ahead, no frills and no deep thinking rock and roll that was typical the time.  Some of it is forgettable, and some is still fun to listen to, like "I'll Drink to You."

Also, in the last day I've listened to Johnny Cash - American V: A Hundred Highways (his last album) and The Waterboys - Fisherman's Blues.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
JohnW



Posts: 2228
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2007,13:25   

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Nov. 13 2007,05:10)
Wow, what's with all this heavy technical stuff? I have no idea, nor do I really care about that, if it sounds good on whatever I play it on, then whatever I play it on is alright by me.

Indeed.  I used to know someone who demonstrated that vinyl sounds better than CD - I heard two versions of the same recording on his system, and the vinyl version was definitely superior.  His system cost more than most cars.  I have a decent but not spectacular set of gear (NAD CD player & amp, Snell speakers, Sennheiser headphones, iPod+Ultimate Ears on the road), giving me more money to spend on actual music.  I'm considering moving the shower and toilet onto the back steps to make more room for CDs.

Last five purchases: John Surman: The Spaces In Between; Fred Hersch: Night and the Music; Death Ambient (now there's a good band name): Synaesthesia; Groundtruther; Altitude; Paul Bley: Solo in Mondsee.

About two-thirds of what I own is jazz, more or less.  Lately I've been listening to a lot of jazz/electronic hybrid stuff - the Thirsty Ear and Tzadik labels have been putting out a lot of very interesting music lately.  The rest is all over the place - a fair amount of classical, reggae, blues, R&B.  Plus a lot of the stuff I grew up with: the likes of Joy Division, the Clash, Talking Heads, Elvis Costello, XTC...

For what it's worth (this obviously reflects the artists' productivity as much as my tastes), the longest stretches of shelf space are devoted to Sun Ra, Miles Davis and Frank Zappa.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,03:11   

Call me a facist but I think anyone who doesn't like Zappa should be killed. Painfully.

When the revolution comes there will be three questions:

1) Do you like the music of Frank Zappa? (with the obvious follow up questions to detect frauds)

2) Do you understand what Pink Floyd are talking about on the Dark Side of the Moon album? (with the obivous discussion)

3) Is S-Club-7's output "music"?

Killin people who get those answers wrong could solve a lot of humanity's problems.*

Louis

*It's possible, although by no means certain, that I am not serious.

--------------
Bye.

  
Mister DNA



Posts: 466
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,03:36   

Quote (Louis @ Nov. 14 2007,03:11)
Call me a facist but I think anyone who doesn't like Zappa should be killed. Painfully.

When the revolution comes there will be three questions:

1) Do you like the music of Frank Zappa? (with the obvious follow up questions to detect frauds)

One of those follow up questions would be: Which is your favorite Zappa lineup?

I'm partial to the Roxy & Elsewhere and One Size Fits All period, followed by the Flo & Eddie era, with the original Mothers of Invention lineup coming in third.

Oh yeah... count me among those whose hearing is too fucked to worry about high-end audio applications. I used to be in a surf instrumental band - the lack of a vocalist allowed us to play at Motorhead-levels of volume. It was fun at the time, but my right eardrum hates me today.

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CBEB's: The Church Burnin' Ebola Blog
Thank you, Dr. Dembski. You are without peer when it comes to The Argument Regarding Design. - vesf

    
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,03:59   

Quote (Mister DNA @ Nov. 14 2007,09:36)
Quote (Louis @ Nov. 14 2007,03:11)
Call me a facist but I think anyone who doesn't like Zappa should be killed. Painfully.

When the revolution comes there will be three questions:

1) Do you like the music of Frank Zappa? (with the obvious follow up questions to detect frauds)

One of those follow up questions would be: Which is your favorite Zappa lineup?

I'm partial to the Roxy & Elsewhere and One Size Fits All period, followed by the Flo & Eddie era, with the original Mothers of Invention lineup coming in third.

{snip}

Good question, it shall be added to the Glorious Follow Up Questions of the People's Righteous Revolution.

Terry Bosio, Patrick O'Hearn, Johnny Marr.....

Oh dear, I appear to have had an accident. Very sorry.

Louis

P.S. I'm not sure of the spellings of the names, I'm am removed from my collection at the moment. I also confess a not insignificant liking for the combination of Steve Vai and Frank Zappa, although I realise this is controversial and may cause a schism.

--------------
Bye.

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,07:10   

Quote
Do you understand what Pink Floyd are talking about on the Dark Side of the Moon album? (with the obivous discussion)


S'life isn't it?

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4238
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,07:14   

Quote (Mister DNA @ Nov. 14 2007,04:36)
       
Quote (Louis @ Nov. 14 2007,03:11)
Call me a facist but I think anyone who doesn't like Zappa should be killed. Painfully.

When the revolution comes there will be three questions:

1) Do you like the music of Frank Zappa? (with the obvious follow up questions to detect frauds)

One of those follow up questions would be: Which is your favorite Zappa lineup?

I'm partial to the Roxy & Elsewhere and One Size Fits All period, followed by the Flo & Eddie era, with the original Mothers of Invention lineup coming in third.

Oh yeah... count me among those whose hearing is too fucked to worry about high-end audio applications. I used to be in a surf instrumental band - the lack of a vocalist allowed us to play at Motorhead-levels of volume. It was fun at the time, but my right eardrum hates me today.

My favorite Zappa lineup was the middle and late iterations of the original Mothers of Invention (Ray Collins on vocals, Jimmy Carl Black, Motorhead Sherwood, Ian Underwood, Roy Estrada, Bunk Gardner, Don Preston, Arthur Tripp) found on WOIFTM, Uncle Meat, Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Cruising with Rueben and the Jets, etc. They didn't have quite the superhuman performance skills of some of the later bands, but the music of that era is particularly original and inspired, and there was a sort of looney, Doo-Wop, faux hispanic, multi-track goofiness to that ensemble that was never (IMHO) quite recaptured. Yet even then the tightness and complexity of Frank's music had no parallel elsewhere in rock. I somewhat lost interest only because I discovered orchestral music - classical era right through the 20th century - which had many of the qualities I loved in Zappa done even more skillfully.

It was during the late 60s and early 70's that I first got into Frank Zappa, and I have particular fondness for that era (so my nurses tell me). However, during the recent Zappa plays Zappa tour I heard a lot of middle and later Zappa that I had never heard before and REALLY LIKED, so this is a provisional top preference.

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
George



Posts: 312
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,07:33   

I wonder what's the correlation between Zappa appreciation and Church Burnin'.  Seems pretty high.  Likewise, how many hands would be required to count the number of creationist Zappa fans?

Me, my favourite lineup varies by week.  Lately I find I prefer the high Statistical Density Zappa.

But for something completely different, I'm now listening to Hampton Colisseum, 9 Oct '89.  The band?  Man, if you have to ask, you just ain't hip.

  
JohnW



Posts: 2228
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,11:07   

Quote (Mister DNA @ Nov. 14 2007,01:36)
I'm partial to the Roxy & Elsewhere and One Size Fits All period,

Yes.  If I could only take one Zappa album to the desert island, it would probably be One Size Fits All, or possibly You Can't Do That On Stage Any More vol. 2.

 
Quote (Mister DNA @ Nov. 14 2007,01:36)
followed by the Flo & Eddie era,

Not his best period, in my opinion.  I love 200 Motels, but I find most of the rest too concerned with "ooh, aren't we rude?" at the expense of the music.

 
Quote (Mister DNA @ Nov. 14 2007,01:36)
...the original Mothers of Invention lineup

Yes again.  Is Freak Out the best debut album ever?

Also, don't forget the phenomenal 1988 big band.  Make A Jazz Noise Here is another desert-island possibility, and The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life is not far behind.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4238
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2007,21:21   

Quote (JohnW @ Nov. 14 2007,12:07)
 
Quote (Mister DNA @ Nov. 14 2007,01:36)
I'm partial to the Roxy & Elsewhere and One Size Fits All period,

Yes.  If I could only take one Zappa album to the desert island, it would probably be One Size Fits All, or possibly You Can't Do That On Stage Any More vol. 2.

You should'a heard the Zappa Plays Zappa* live rendition of Andy. Absafuckinglutely awesome.

*Dweezil's band, currently touring and playing his father's music.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2007,21:38   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Nov. 12 2007,23:58)
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 13 2007,00:23)
I've heard that tubes and vinyl have pleasant even harmonics, while solid state stuff have unpleasant odd harmonics. Anyone know if this is true?

That's the theory vis tubes, although not vinyl. Some argue that well designed solid state and tube amplifiers sound equivalent until overdriven. The harmonic distortion generated by tubes near clipping is 2nd order versus 3rd and higher for SS, and is therefore less noticeable and less objectionable.

I once had a record dealer friend who swore that the best sound quality he'd ever heard came from vinyl 78's, which had a short-lived existence for a few years in the 1950's.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2007,21:40   

Quote (Louis @ Nov. 14 2007,03:59)
 
Quote (Mister DNA @ Nov. 14 2007,09:36)
 
Quote (Louis @ Nov. 14 2007,03:11)
Call me a facist but I think anyone who doesn't like Zappa should be killed. Painfully.

When the revolution comes there will be three questions:

1) Do you like the music of Frank Zappa? (with the obvious follow up questions to detect frauds)

One of those follow up questions would be: Which is your favorite Zappa lineup?

I'm partial to the Roxy & Elsewhere and One Size Fits All period, followed by the Flo & Eddie era, with the original Mothers of Invention lineup coming in third.

{snip}

Good question, it shall be added to the Glorious Follow Up Questions of the People's Righteous Revolution.

Terry Bosio, Patrick O'Hearn, Johnny Marr.....

Oh dear, I appear to have had an accident. Very sorry.

Louis

P.S. I'm not sure of the spellings of the names, I'm am removed from my collection at the moment. I also confess a not insignificant liking for the combination of Steve Vai and Frank Zappa, although I realise this is controversial and may cause a schism.

My favorite Zappa albums are We're Only In It For the Money (complete genius) and Freak Out.  Two of the funniest records EVER made.

Zappa was an amazingly smart guy, but I, uh, find his later records really boring.

[runs as Louis reaches for his shotgun]

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2007,21:54   

THIS record, however, is an unqualified masterpiece:



I've owned this record in one form or another since 1982 and I still can't believe everything Iggy and the boys managed to do with it. It was originally recorded in 1970 and it *still* frightens people. When I saw them in concert last Spring they played *every* track off it, even 'L.A. Blues'.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
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