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  Topic: Synthese: Evolution..., And Its Rivals, Special Issue< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: April 19 2011,22:02   

This thread is for items relating to the Synthese special issue on "Evolution and Its Rivals", printed as the January 2011 issue of the journal.

Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on April 20 2011,06:22

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: April 19 2011,22:08   

There's a controversy over how a disclaimer was put into the Synthese special issue by the Editors-in-Chief, claiming that some of the papers published didn't meet the journal's usual standards for civility in discourse.

John Wilkins took note of the problem. Brian Leiter suggested a boycott of Synthese until the Editors-in-Chief acknowledged that it was an error to do so. John Wilkins is tracking notice of the issue in the blogosphere here. Wilkins is also tracking people willing to participate in the boycott, so contact him if you are an interested academic.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



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(Permalink) Posted: April 20 2011,18:44   

I have only been able to catch up with this topic now.

I think that the inclusion of the disclaimer, blind-siding Branch and Fetzer that way, was appalling. Until now I was unclear as to their involvement in it or not, a misunderstanding that many could make, compounding their humiliation.

Interesting to see how this plays out...

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: April 22 2011,08:14   

The Synthese Editors-in-Chief Strike Back

With a reply by me.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



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Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 22 2011,10:10   

If the editors want this to go away, I warn them that this would make a fascinating article on the behavior seeking (and gatekeeping) behavior of scientists. Open access and scientific collaboratories are hot topics and are pushing the peer review process to the fore - theses guys are behind the times.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1950
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 22 2011,11:22   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 19 2011,20:02)
This thread is for items relating to the Synthese special issue on "Evolution and Its Rivals", printed as the January 2011 issue of the journal.

I was reading John's blog this morning, and I was particularly struck by thin-skinned these academic philosophers are. What sissy boys they are! I was especially unimpressed by the jerk posting as "Fremder Mensch".

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,02:14   

For an eye-opening glimpse into how the IDC advocates are using the Synthese affair, go have a look at this video of a lecture by Paul Giem.

The page description of the video is:

 
Quote

Discussion begins at 1:04:45. The journal Synthese had Glenn Branch of the NCSE as a guest editor of their January 2011 edition. The journal had to publish a retraction because of what was published. Presentation mostly covers article by Barbara Forrest and response by Francis Beckwith.


The Synthese disclaimer doesn't retract anything, of course.

Giem says (at 28:49) that, "This lady [referring to Prof. Forrest] needs some Haldol or something."

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



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Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,08:59   

NCSE Tries to Blacklist Synthese for Upholding Civility

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Dr.GH



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(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,10:19   

I couldn't watch.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,11:05   

Quote (Dr.GH @ April 24 2011,10:19)
I couldn't watch.

I completely understand. When Giem declared my paper with Jeff Shallit to be the "strongest" article in the special issue, I was wondering what we didn't cover that pleased him.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



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(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,11:21   

Quote (Dr.GH @ April 24 2011,10:19)
I couldn't watch.

If the page was not written in a non-English alphabet, I would create an account and request more civility.



Edited by Lou FCD on April 24 2011,20:25

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4465
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,12:53   

Quote (Kristine @ April 24 2011,11:21)
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 24 2011,10:19)
I couldn't watch.

If the page was not written in a non-English alphabet, I would create an account and request more civility.

POTW!

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



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Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,18:55   

Posted! On an English-language site.

Quote
Did you actually say that Barbara Forrest "needs Haldol or something"? Is that civility? Is that a rational response to what you have termed "incivility"?
I call for more civility in this debate. You should apologize!


--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,19:31   

Christ, that was painful to watch.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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clamboy



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(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,21:06   

"The journal had to publish a retraction because of what was published." (in the blurb below the video)

Oh, they had to, did they? And anyway, isn't that statement something of a blatant shading of the truth? As least as I understand the word "retraction."

You are all brave, brave people to sit through that. Less than ten minutes into Mr. Brimley's horrible delivery and I had to walk away.

  
Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2011,21:48   

Quote (clamboy @ April 24 2011,22:06)
"The journal had to publish a retraction because of what was published." (in the blurb below the video)

Oh, they had to, did they? And anyway, isn't that statement something of a blatant shading of the truth? As least as I understand the word "retraction."

You are all brave, brave people to sit through that. Less than ten minutes into Mr. Brimley's horrible delivery and I had to walk away.

Oh, don't misunderstand. I didn't make it much further than you did.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,03:35   

Quote (Kristine @ April 24 2011,18:55)
Posted! On an English-language site.

Quote
Did you actually say that Barbara Forrest "needs Haldol or something"? Is that civility? Is that a rational response to what you have termed "incivility"?
I call for more civility in this debate. You should apologize!

There's a "Like" button for Kristine's comment. I think it would be good if everyone visited and hit the "Like" button on the comment.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Schroedinger's Dog



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,05:02   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 25 2011,09:35)
Quote (Kristine @ April 24 2011,18:55)
Posted! On an English-language site.

 
Quote
Did you actually say that Barbara Forrest "needs Haldol or something"? Is that civility? Is that a rational response to what you have termed "incivility"?
I call for more civility in this debate. You should apologize!

There's a "Like" button for Kristine's comment. I think it would be good if everyone visited and hit the "Like" button on the comment.

Done!

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"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

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Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,05:35   

Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ April 25 2011,06:02)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 25 2011,09:35)
Quote (Kristine @ April 24 2011,18:55)
Posted! On an English-language site.

 
Quote
Did you actually say that Barbara Forrest "needs Haldol or something"? Is that civility? Is that a rational response to what you have termed "incivility"?
I call for more civility in this debate. You should apologize!

There's a "Like" button for Kristine's comment. I think it would be good if everyone visited and hit the "Like" button on the comment.

Done!

Done.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Dr.GH



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,09:58   

Quote (clamboy @ April 24 2011,19:06)
You are all brave, brave people to sit through that. Less than ten minutes into Mr. Brimley's horrible delivery and I had to walk away.

I had to skip through. Not only was the talk without substance, but the delivery was stultifying.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Kristine



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Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,10:07   

Quote (Dr.GH @ April 25 2011,09:58)
Quote (clamboy @ April 24 2011,19:06)
You are all brave, brave people to sit through that. Less than ten minutes into Mr. Brimley's horrible delivery and I had to walk away.

I had to skip through. Not only was the talk without substance, but the delivery was stultifying.

Yeah, I was wondering if it was an undiscovered Warhol film.

I suppose that we should thank him for being an unintentional turn-off? Naw!

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
clamboy



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,10:10   

Kristine's comment liked by one more. Oh, and go like the second comment. I did!

  
Gunthernacus



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,10:31   

That...hmm...was...ahhh...brutal.  I didn't last more than a few minutes.  Comments liked.

The first thing he does is explain why he uses the term "anticreationists".  The next thing he says is "this is what happens when evolutio...ah, anticreationsts get editorial control of a journal..."

We know what you meant, Paul.  Freud giggled, and it wasn't from your John Bolton mustache.

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Given that we are all descended from Adam and Eve...genetic defects as a result of intra-family marriage would not begin to crop up until after the first few dozen generations. - Dr. Hugh Ross

  
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,11:03   

Such a dynamic speaker!

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"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
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Tracy P. Hamilton



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,11:13   

Quote (Dr.GH @ April 24 2011,10:19)
I couldn't watch.

1:35 for me.  Ironic that the website in the intro is is called ItsAboutGod.com, given that good old young earth creationism or ID is claimed to be scientific.

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noncarborundum



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,15:40   

Quote (Dr.GH @ April 25 2011,09:58)
 
Quote (clamboy @ April 24 2011,19:06)
You are all brave, brave people to sit through that. Less than ten minutes into Mr. Brimley's horrible delivery and I had to walk away.

I had to skip through. Not only was the talk without substance, but the delivery was stultifying.

This is what I imagine it would be like to attend a college class taught by kairosfocus.  Except that you couldn't just click the "pause" button before you dozed off entirely.

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"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Kristine



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(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,18:40   

Quote (clamboy @ April 25 2011,10:10)
Kristine's comment liked by one more. Oh, and go like the second comment. I did!

Yep! Me too. Way to "blacklist," everyone! :)

How does one "blacklist" a journal, by the way?  I thought that one, um, boycotted it (and I don't know that it should go that far), and "blacklisted" authors - but are the editors in question "blacklisted"? They cannot publish anywhere else? They cannot sit at a table in L.A. with Elia Kazan? (Oh.) ;)

I would love it for the editors to respond to the "retraction" claim themselves. By now they should be livid at such claims. They made a mistake and are now being totally played.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4465
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,18:49   

Quote (noncarborundum @ April 25 2011,15:40)
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 25 2011,09:58)
 
Quote (clamboy @ April 24 2011,19:06)
You are all brave, brave people to sit through that. Less than ten minutes into Mr. Brimley's horrible delivery and I had to walk away.

I had to skip through. Not only was the talk without substance, but the delivery was stultifying.

This is what I imagine it would be like to attend a college class taught by kairosfocus.  Except that you couldn't just click the "pause" button before you dozed off entirely.

Pause button? I'd want it to be closer to over by the time I awoke, I think.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
noncarborundum



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Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2011,20:10   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 25 2011,18:49)
 
Quote (noncarborundum @ April 25 2011,15:40)
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 25 2011,09:58)
     
Quote (clamboy @ April 24 2011,19:06)
You are all brave, brave people to sit through that. Less than ten minutes into Mr. Brimley's horrible delivery and I had to walk away.

I had to skip through. Not only was the talk without substance, but the delivery was stultifying.

This is what I imagine it would be like to attend a college class taught by kairosfocus.  Except that you couldn't just click the "pause" button before you dozed off entirely.

Pause button? I'd want it to be closer to over by the time I awoke, I think.

I was sort of assuming one didn't actually want to doze off in class if one could avoid it.  Your mileage may vary.

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"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Badger3k



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Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2011,00:37   

Quote (noncarborundum @ April 25 2011,20:10)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 25 2011,18:49)
 
Quote (noncarborundum @ April 25 2011,15:40)
   
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 25 2011,09:58)
     
Quote (clamboy @ April 24 2011,19:06)
You are all brave, brave people to sit through that. Less than ten minutes into Mr. Brimley's horrible delivery and I had to walk away.

I had to skip through. Not only was the talk without substance, but the delivery was stultifying.

This is what I imagine it would be like to attend a college class taught by kairosfocus.  Except that you couldn't just click the "pause" button before you dozed off entirely.

Pause button? I'd want it to be closer to over by the time I awoke, I think.

I was sort of assuming one didn't actually want to doze off in class if one could avoid it.  Your mileage may vary.

That also assumes that you had a choice of dozing off.  With some people, staying awake is not an option.  Try it - have somebody read one of his posts - see if you can stay awake!

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"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
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