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Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:08   

How do you know I changed my position on the EF? I actually did defend it at one point, not because I agreed with it but because it was being misrepresented but that doesn't mean I espouse it, that is a completely different issue.

  
Frostman



Posts: 29
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:09   

Nelson Alonso aka Guts:
Quote
It's also interesting that you said you "sent me" a coded message, I received no such message. Why are you lying? The reason is obvious.

I thought I've seen thick skulls before, but yours has got to be the thickest I have ever seen. †For the third time: the coded message was that I called you Nelson Alonso, not Guts.

To witness your disintegration into a flailing ball of petulant 13-year-old comments here, right now, on this forum, is so awesome, Nelson. †Please, continue, continue.

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:10   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:08)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:04)
 
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:02)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,05:57)
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

And so it begins.

I must say Guts, I think this is the fastest ever transition from "challenge to debate" to "ignoring awkward comments" we've ever had.

Grats.

Why would you say that? You don't even know my position, so it's not even possible that you could even debate me. It shows your lack of intellect really. Multiple pages of this thread, and you don't even know my position? How is that not hilarious.

Guts, have I said I don't know what your position is?

OK, what do you want to debate about?

Shall we try that?

How about "how the explanatory filter is a worthless construct that is only used to fool the less mathematical into believing that design detection has a foundation in reality when in fact it's just the math icing on a cake of nothing"

How about we debate your complete and utter Incompetence ? That seems like a good debate.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:10   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:08)
How do you know I changed my position on the EF? I actually did defend it at one point, not because I agreed with it but because it was being misrepresented but that doesn't mean I espouse it, that is a completely different issue.

Simple question.

Does the EF, in your option, work or not?

Can it be used to "detect design"?

If "yes" why do you think that?

If "yes" can you give us an example?

If "no" can you say why you think it works without being able to give an example?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:11   

Quote (Frostman @ July 06 2008,06:09)
Nelson Alonso aka Guts:
Quote
It's also interesting that you said you "sent me" a coded message, I received no such message. Why are you lying? The reason is obvious.

I thought I've seen thick skulls before, but yours has got to be the thickest I have ever seen. †For the third time: the coded message was that I called you Nelson Alonso, not Guts.

To witness your disintegration into a flailing ball of petulant 13-year-old comments here, right now, on this forum, is so awesome, Nelson. †Please, continue, continue.

Frostman, you still haven't told me why you refer to yourself in the third person. Isn't that utterly insane? Do you think your mother would be proud of something like that?

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:12   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,12:03)
 
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,06:01)
   
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,11:57)
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

Well, since you seem to have changed your position, I think it would be a good thing if you could define your position as it currently stands, in order to get rid of any misconceptions.

How in the world could you know I changed my position if you don't even know it? Bizarre.

Earlier in this thread you stated

 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,11:45)
The EF? lol again, you are completely ignorant of my position. The EF is as much of a joke as the assertion that steve can argue scientific topics.


But in a thread on telic thoughts in 2005 you wrote the following.

 
Quote (Guts @ May 06 2005 on TT)

PvM:
 
Quote

These statements combined with the admission that false positives are possible make the EF useless. For example, assume that ID had presented a clear case of an EF applied to infer design, how would we know that it had not forgotten a particular hypothesis?

No it doesn't, it just makes the EF fallible, and not perfect, like most sciences. If the EF detects an object as designed, and but we find out it actually evolved, then you can say that it's not reliable. But that hasn't happened yet. Pointing to the possibility that it might happen doesn't render it useless at all.


How is that not changing your position? Now do you understand why there might be some confusion regarding your position?

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:15   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:10)
How about we debate your complete and utter Incompetence ? That seems like a good debate.

Lets. It simply shows how †desperate you are to avoid engaging on substantive issues.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:15   

I don't get it, I defend against falsehood, even the EF, if you're so utterly stupid that you don't get the EF, I will call you out on it. But it doesn't mean I espouse it. So i don't get your point.

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:16   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:15)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:10)
How about we debate your complete and utter Incompetence ? That seems like a good debate.

Lets. It simply shows how †desperate you are to avoid engaging on substantive issues.

You're a moron and you should realize this undisputable fact of life. Ok?

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:18   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:16)
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:15)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:10)
How about we debate your complete and utter Incompetence ? That seems like a good debate.

Lets. It simply shows how †desperate you are to avoid engaging on substantive issues.

You're a moron and you should realize this undisputable fact of life. Ok?

Name calling?

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:19   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:15)
I don't get it, I defend against falsehood, even the EF, if you're so utterly stupid that you don't get the EF, I will call you out on it. But it doesn't mean I espouse it. So i don't get your point.

Defend the EF by giving us an example of it being used.

I bet you can't.

And further more I bet the reason you can't won't be "There is no example to give" but "you are a moron".

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:20   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:16)
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:15)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:10)
How about we debate your complete and utter Incompetence ? That seems like a good debate.

Lets. It simply shows how †desperate you are to avoid engaging on substantive issues.

You're a moron and you should realize this undisputable fact of life. Ok?

Oh, is this you conceding the debate?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:20   

No thats me conceding that you're a retard.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:24   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:20)
No thats me conceding that you're a retard.

You don't know you won't be able to go back and edit all this right?

How you got challenged to a debate and responded like a 10 year old?

It's good to know this is the best you've got.

In fact, like FTK, you are the best advertisement for what "telic thoughts" do to your brain.

Carry on the good work Guts, we'd be a lot worse off without your type of unthinking acceptance of such concepts as the EF. It serves to illustrate to the undecided lurkers the paucity of ideas and facts supporting your side of the "debate". Not that they know what your side is as you refuse to tell them. Sound laughable does it when you write it out? Don't blame you for not telling in that case.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1373
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:24   

Ah I think Nelson/Guts is attempting the debating tactic of provoking a banning, sometimes referred to as "death by Cop", I believe.

This is all very illuminating, Sir.

(Edited for spelling)

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:27   

Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,06:24)
Ah I think Nelson/Guts is attempting the debating tactic of provoking a banning, sometimes referred to as "death by Cop", I believe.

This is all very illuminating, Sir.

(Edited for spelling)

No i'm trying to provoke actual thought, which is absent here. No one knows my position? Are you friggin kidding me? This thread is pages and pages long, and accusations abound, but no one knows my position? How batshit insane is that. I could write a book on it.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:31   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:27)
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,06:24)
Ah I think Nelson/Guts is attempting the debating tactic of provoking a banning, sometimes referred to as "death by Cop", I believe.

This is all very illuminating, Sir.

(Edited for spelling)

No i'm trying to provoke actual thought, which is absent here. No one knows my position? Are you friggin kidding me? This thread is pages and pages long, and accusations abound, but no one knows my position? How batshit insane is that. I could write a book on it.

Who's saying that?

The point is that before a debate or even discussion can happen you need to say something substantive that said discussion can be based upon.

Simply pointing to "my position is available on XYZ blogs" means nothing.

It's not a difficult to understand point.

Make some kind of point. People will agree or disagree. Then we can have a discussion, debate, whatever.

As yet, you've said nothing here to base such a discussion on.

Again, it's not a hard concept.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1373
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:32   

Quote
No i'm trying to provoke actual thought, which is absent here. No one knows my position? Are you friggin kidding me? This thread is pages and pages long, and accusations abound, but no one knows my position? How batshit insane is that. I could write a book on it.


No need to write a book, surely? Just try a post with an example, starting with something like "my position on (fill in with subject of choice here) is..."

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:34   

So I've made no kind of point, and yet, this thread is more than 10 pages long, and accusations abound.  That requires professional attention from psychiatrists, I will demonstrate this in the comming weeks.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:35   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:34)
So I've made no kind of point, and yet, this thread is more than 10 pages long, and accusations abound. †That requires professional attention from psychiatrists, I will demonstrate this in the comming weeks.

Ah, tactic #73

Right now I'm too busy to demonstrate why you are all idiots, but *soon* I will, just you wait and see

Sure, why not do it now Guts? What's stopping you?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:36   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,12:34)
So I've made no kind of point, and yet, this thread is more than 10 pages long, and accusations abound.  That requires professional attention from psychiatrists, I will demonstrate this in the comming weeks.

Why wait?

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:38   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:35)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:34)
So I've made no kind of point, and yet, this thread is more than 10 pages long, and accusations abound. †That requires professional attention from psychiatrists, I will demonstrate this in the comming weeks.

Ah, tactic #73

Right now I'm too busy to demonstrate why you are all idiots, but *soon* I will, just you wait and see

Sure, why not do it now Guts? What's stopping you?

Whats stopping me is that despite the fact that I have written multiple blogs, none of them have been responded to here, I just keep getting the utterly stupid question "what do you think about the EF", how utterly stupid is that? I mean really. You guys don't realize how stupid you are? That seems unlikely to me.

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1373
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:45   

Quote
So I've made no kind of point, and yet, this thread is more than 10 pages long, and accusations abound.
This thread was started as a commentary on the general doings at TT, as the traffic had slowed at UD, and some people find it interesting to observe what goes on at TT. So it is not about you or your position, although your moderating behaviour has been examined. But noŲne is wanting to prevent you from demonstrating your superior intellect. We will welcome your contribution, as soon as we know what it is.

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1373
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:47   

Quote
Whats stopping me is that despite the fact that I have written multiple blogs, none of them have been responded to here


So, provide a link to your best work.

  
RupertG



Posts: 80
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:47   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:27)
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,06:24)
Ah I think Nelson/Guts is attempting the debating tactic of provoking a banning, sometimes referred to as "death by Cop", I believe.

This is all very illuminating, Sir.

(Edited for spelling)

No i'm trying to provoke actual thought, which is absent here. No one knows my position? Are you friggin kidding me? This thread is pages and pages long, and accusations abound, but no one knows my position? How batshit insane is that. I could write a book on it.

You're not actually provoking anything, though, except the willingness to let you carry on for as long as you like. It's not so much giving you enough rope as allowing you to pay out as much rope as you like, a la Aristophanes.

Refusing to state your position then throwing turds at people who ask, is certainly a path to enlightenment for anyone who cares to follow the thread. As a reader, I now feel very well informed about your actual position, because it's clearly demonstrated in all your postings. Am I wrong about what's being demonstrated here? It certainly looks like a classic example of a certain sort of behaviour - and not one recognisable as an attempt to debate.

If you want a debate, it's very simple. State your assumptions, state your evidence, state your logic and state your conclusion. A proper understanding of all four is necessary to make progress.

If you don't believe we're smart enough to understand this, why are you still here? Are you not smart enough to educate us?

Instead of throwing turds, why not expend that energy throwing evidence and logic? They're far harder to scrape off, when they hit.

R

--------------
Uncle Joe and Aunty Mabel
Fainted at the breakfast table
Children, let this be a warning
Never do it in the morning -- Ralph Vaughan Williams

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:48   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,05:48)
I never said "I don't debate people who don't know my position" Why are you lying? I just said it was interesting, given the existence of this thread, that people don't know my position.

Well, perhaps you overestimate your importance in the world.  But, then again, perhaps I am just an ignint knuckledragger.  So, wow me.  Lay out your position so I can bask in your reflected glory.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. †We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:50   

Because this thread is obviously not about evidence or logic, it's about who can throw the best turd. You hit the nail on the head there. You can go to Telicthoughts.com and click on my name and read all my blogs, in fact I challenge anyone to do so.

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:52   

But the bottom line is that AE is not about rational debate it's about cultivating flamers. I've dealt with this as soon as I banned the first flamer, keiths, and since then this blog has been an undeserved target.

  
Guts



Posts: 226
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:53   

But hey, you guys want to play? I'm game. Lets play.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,06:56   

Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:50)
Because this thread is obviously not about evidence or logic, it's about who can throw the best turd. You hit the nail on the head there. You can go to Telicthoughts.com and click on my name and read all my blogs, in fact I challenge anyone to do so.

But, I thought you wanted to debate here? †Now you are retreating to the safety of TT? † †

*turns and speaks to adults*

I hate to say it, but this guy is even worse than JoeG. At least Joe tries to sound sciency and whatnot while he is insulting you. †

*turns back to guts*

HA HA THIS IS YOU



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. †We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
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