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midwifetoad



Posts: 3592
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2010,11:31   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 29 2010,19:52)
There is now a Creation Letter Project in opposition to the Clergy Letter Project.

They're not doing badly. In two months they've had 11,000 visitors and 43 clergy signatures. :p

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2010,06:12   

More claims on the inaccuracy of dates obtained by radiometric dating. this time from Steve Austin.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article....-basalt

 
Quote
For more than twenty years it has been known that the Rb-Sr and K-Ar systems give discordant “ages” for Cardenas Basalt and associated Proterozoic diabase sills and dikes of Grand Canyon. Thirteen new K-Ar analyses of Proterozoic mafic rocks of Grand Canyon are added to nine published K-Ar analyses. We report a new fourteen-point K-Ar isochron “age” of 516 ± 30 Ma which is strongly discordant with the published Rb-Sr isochron “age” of 1.07 ± 0.07 Ga for Cardenas Basalt. By more than doubling the K-Ar data set we can test explanations for why the discordance exists. Advocates of the Rb-Sr isochron, recognizing the strong geochemical similarity of rubidium and potassium, have not argued for significant potassium addition to these rocks. Addition of potassium during alteration of these rocks would explain the anomously young K-Ar age, but it would also add rubidium and invalidate the Rb-Sr isochron age. Instead, advocates of the Rb-Sr isochron have argued only for significant argon loss. Two argon loss models (episodic loss and continuous loss) are tested in an attempt to explain why these altered rocks have about half the 40Ar required by the conventional Rb-Sr interpretation. Both argon loss models, although attempting to maintain the assumptions of conventional geochronology, fail to explain the data, especially the new data we offer. Three models are proposed as alternatives to argon loss models, but these invalidate using the K-Ar system as conventional geochronology would assume.


To a YEC this type of thing looks like peer reviewed science.

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 05 2010,09:34   

Quote (Peter Henderson @ Feb. 04 2010,04:12)
To a YEC this type of thing looks like peer reviewed science.

He forgot to add the conclusion:

"Now that we've found a factor-of-two discrepancy, then 5 orders of magnitude (500My to 5Ky) is a slam dunk, and Genesis is Truth!"

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 05 2010,10:09   

Radiometric dating AND the Grand Canyon!

Double win for Steve Austin, the bionic creationist!

  
Henry J



Posts: 4098
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2010,21:38   

Quote
( From closed topic State of the Nation 2 Ken Ham )
He once suggested that Adam & Eve used effeminate English saddles in The Garden, not good-old fashioned American Saddles.

If this isn't a silly question, on what kind of animals did they put those saddles? ;)

Henry

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2010,21:59   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Feb. 05 2010,11:09)
Radiometric dating AND the Grand Canyon!

Double win for Steve Austin, the bionic creationist!

He's a man whose brain is barely alive. I don't think we can rebuild him.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2010,05:41   

Personally, I think Ham is somewhat delusional in that he seems to imagine he's some sort of Abe Lincoln type figure:

http://www.answerslive.org/?utm_so....n=sotn2

Lots of verbal attacks on President Obama, Atheists, Laurence Krauss, and even William Demski, believe it or not.

  
Bjarne



Posts: 29
Joined: Dec. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2010,07:29   

Its pretty impressive though, that you can make almost a whole introductions from various iterations of the sentence: "Ken Ham is the President of AIG and thus the Creation Museum"

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4368
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2010,08:02   

Quote (Henry J @ Feb. 17 2010,21:38)
Quote
( From closed topic State of the Nation 2 Ken Ham )
He once suggested that Adam & Eve used effeminate English saddles in The Garden, not good-old fashioned American Saddles.

If this isn't a silly question, on what kind of animals did they put those saddles? ;)

Henry

Dinosaurs, of course!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2010,10:14   

From the link:

http://scienceantiscience.blogspot.com/2006....hn.html

Quote
He asked me if I'd seen his article in "New Scientist". I haven't, has anybody here? I mentioned that's not exactly a peer-reviewed journal.


Well, I've just been linked to the interview by Andrew Sibley of the CSM (Creation Science Movement)

http://www.newscientist.com/article....ar.html

Quote
Lone voices special: God said, let the dry land appear
09 December 2006 by Peter Aldhous
Magazine issue 2581. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.
Read full articleContinue reading page |1 |2
Few earth scientists believe that our planet was created some 10,000 years ago and maintain that the Biblical account of Noah's flood is the literal truth. To have published papers in Nature and Science while holding these views is almost unheard of. John Baumgardner, creationist and geophysical modeller, tells Peter Aldhous how his Christian faith has shaped an unusual scientific career.

You've said that your primary goal as a scientist is "defence of God's word". Is this consistent with the scientific method?

Most scientists try to make incremental contributions. There are a few who are strongly driven by their world view; Richard Dawkins is a pretty dramatic example. I would put myself in that same category, although I hope that I'm not as abrasive. If people can do it on the other side, why should I shrink back?

What led you to geophysical modelling?

My original training was in electrical engineering. Later, I had a Christian conversion. After four years working on laser optics in the air force I had three years with Campus Crusade for Christ. During that time I started doing lectures on the origins of the Earth as described in the Bible, and found myself doing a lot of background research. In 1978 I realised that the Genesis flood had to involve rapid large-scale tectonic change. So I started a PhD in geophysics at the University of California, Los Angeles.

During your PhD you developed a computer model for the interior of the Earth that has been widely used. Tell us about that.

It models convection in the Earth's mantle, treating it as a viscous fluid and partitioning it into a large number of cells. We model the flow of rock as the result of solid-state creep: the rock is solid, but it deforms and flows like a fluid. The Los Alamos National Laboratory, where I had developed the model, was impressed, and in 1983 made me an offer to work in its theoretical division.

How does this work relate to the Genesis flood?

My main interest is in modelling catastrophic plate tectonics. Laboratory experiments show that silicate minerals can weaken by a factor of a billion under relatively modest stress change. As a slab of rock descends into the mantle, there's deformation in the zone between the slab and the surrounding mantle. As the stress increases, the material becomes weaker, allowing the slab to fall more rapidly. This increases the stress, so you have positive feedback. This allows plate motions that are generally understood to require hundreds of millions of years to unfold to occur in a few weeks. It results in significant deformation in the height of the continents' surfaces, and the height of the ocean's bottom. Apparently, the continents were largely submerged. In roughly a year's time, we have almost a complete resurfacing of the planet. At the end, we have a wrecked, desolate planet that is struggling to recover.

You have conceded one major problem, which is how the newly formed crust could cool so quickly.

That is a problem. There would have been supersonic jets of steam, which I once thought might have carried heat into space. But I'm persuaded now that you can't cool the plates by that mechanism. Still, I believe that this accounts for the 40 days and 40 nights of rain: ocean water was carried up with these jets. Most of what I've described involves the present laws of physics, but there are a couple of issues where I believe there must have been some form of divine intervention. One has to do with accelerating nuclear decay rates, which can explain why radioisotope methods seem to give dates for some rocks of hundreds of millions of years. The second is a mechanism for cooling.

For most scientists, this is hugely problematical. They cannot invoke divine intervention in this way.

I don't deny that most people would come down on the side of the conventional view, right now. Until the case is strong enough, it's foolhardy of me to ask and insist that my peers buy into it. I personally have confidence that it's true. My close peers, at least, know my position and are interested in it. But most of them want to continue to be in good standing with their colleagues.

You don't seem to worry much about peer approval.

I was in college during the radical sixties. Even though I did not participate in protests, I think I came away with that kind of radical outlook. The Biblical Christian also sees himself as a kind of revolutionary. True Christians generally haven't enjoyed a lot of approval

  
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2010,15:26   

Some "debates" which might be worth attending:

From Ham's blog today:

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs....+Ham%29

Quote
DEBATE SUMMIT TO BE HELD IN WASHINGTON COURT HOUSE, OHIO

Debate Summit 2010 will be held March 12th – 13th and includes nationally and internationally recognized scholars.  The Debate Summit series exists as a forum designed to explain, test and defend various aspects of the Christian worldview by interacting with qualified representatives of non-Christian worldviews in moderated public debates.  Its goal is to create and maintain an atmosphere of civility, mutual respect and the open exchange of ideas.

The Debate Summit is hosted by Grace Community Church of Washington Court House, Ohio.

Debaters for this year include Dr. Will Provine of Cornell University.  Dr. Provine is one of the world’s preeminent spokesmen for evolution.  On a popular level, he is perhaps best known for his interview in Ben Stein’s documentary, “EXPELLED:  No Intelligence Allowed”.   …


Dr. Provine’s … first opponent is Dr. Andy McIntosh of Leeds University (United Kingdom).  Dr. McIntosh lectures internationally and is an expert in thermodynamics, combustion theory and aerodynamics.  The Provine/McIntosh debate topic is “Flight in birds and bats:  Is evolution or creation the best guide?”.  Dr. Provine’s second debate is with Dr. Dennis Sullivan of Cedarville University (OH).  Dr. Sullivan, a former surgeon, is Professor of Biology at Cedarville and is the Director at the University’s Center of Bioethics.  The Provine/Sullivan debate will be “Free Will:  Does it exist?  Does it matter?”

[In  the third debate] Dr. Ed Buckner [President of American Atheists] will debate Jay Lucas, the Senior Pastor of Grace Community Church. … .  The Buckner/Lucas debate will be “Moral Foundations:  Which makes more sense, Christianity or Atheism?”.

Complete information can be found at debatesummit.com

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1058
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2010,15:59   

Quote
Dr. Provine is one of the world’s preeminent spokesmen for evolution.  On a popular level, he is perhaps best known for his interview in Ben Stein’s documentary, “EXPELLED:  No Intelligence Allowed”.


If your fame depends on something you did in Expelled, you might as well be in the witness protection program.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2010,10:01   

Dunno if this has been noted before, but a new Creation Museum is being planned near Branson MO.

Just a day trip for FtK and her kids!

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3592
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2010,12:22   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Feb. 26 2010,10:01)
Dunno if this has been noted before, but a new Creation Museum is being planned near Branson MO.

Just a day trip for FtK and her kids!

It will no doubt raise the town's IQ.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
khan



Posts: 1484
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2010,11:40   

Good a place as any to post this:

Large amounts of crazy

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 531
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2010,13:04   

Quote (khan @ Feb. 27 2010,09:40)
Good a place as any to post this:

Large amounts of crazy

 
Quote
We might call it a 'historical' science, but this would be resisted because in our day and age calling something a 'historical' fact is like saying it isn't true at all but when people say something is a scientific fact, it is unassailable... except by the scientists themselves who reserve to themselves the right to change their interpretation on the fly as it suits them.


My translation:
 
Quote
Wah! The scientists won't let us YECs change the facts or even their interpretation of the facts, the big meanies. Wah!


--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1968
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2010,15:44   

Quote (khan @ Feb. 27 2010,09:40)
Good a place as any to post this:

Large amounts of crazy

This is a large dose of serendipity: I have just been having a little bit of back and forth with Mr. Horvath on the Amazon.com "Religion" forum, toward the end of "Why Christianity and Nazi Germany were NOT mutually exclusive!" He has just published a book by Joseph Keysor, "Hitler, the Holocaust, and the Bible: A Scriptural Analysis of Anti-Semitism, National Socialism, and the Churches in Nazi Germany."

It seems that the Holocaust was caused by Darwin. Sounds like a cheap knock-off of Richard Weikart's "From Darwin to Hitler."

Keysor, like Horvath is a far-right YEC. Keysor's primary degree is in Eastern European Studies from a small religious college, and an MA in "adult education." He teaches English.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2010,15:44   

This is good. I was beginning to think today was the 1st of April rather than the 1st March:

South Dakota legislature declares that astrology can explain global warming:

http://blogs.forbes.com/science....warming

   
Quote
That there are a variety of climatological, meteorological, astrological, thermological, cosmological, and ecological dynamics that can effect (sic) world weather phenomena and that the significance and interrelativity of these factors is largely speculative.


http://www.scienceprogress.org/2010/02/climate-change-scopes-trial/

   
Quote
The resolution invokes these fallacious claims in the service of four points: “That global warming is a scientific theory rather than a proven fact”; “That there are a variety of climatological, meteorological, astrological, thermological, cosmological, and ecological dynamics that can effect [sic] world weather phenomena and that the significance and interrelativity [sic] of these factors is largely speculative”; “That the debate on global warming has subsumed political and philosophical viewpoints which have complicated and prejudiced the scientific investigation of global warming phenomena”; and that instruction about global warming should be “appropriate to the age and academic development of the student and to the prevailing classroom circumstances

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2010,16:06   

Quote (Peter Henderson @ Mar. 01 2010,16:44)
“That there are a variety of climatological, meteorological, astrological, thermological, cosmological, and ecological dynamics that can effect [sic] world weather phenomena..."

Thermological?

First time I've heard global warming attributed to infrared breast imaging, but the idea has potential.

And I'm thinking they meant cosmetological rather than cosmological.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Henry J



Posts: 4098
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2010,20:13   

Quote
And I'm thinking they meant cosmetological rather than cosmological.


Cosmetological? Is that the science of making things up?

Henry

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2010,15:34   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 02 2010,11:31)

Quote
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 29 2010,19:52)
There is now a Creation Letter Project in opposition to the Clergy Letter Project.

They're not doing badly. In two months they've had 11,000 visitors and 43 clergy signatures. :p


Late to the game on this, but I just saw FL's comment on the subject.

Seems to me that since the Creationist Letter Project is allowing just any ol' Tom, Dick, or Apologist sign on, perhaps there should be a simple Evolutionary Theory Letter Project on which anyone who affirms an understanding of evolutionary theory and process and can sign. It would be interesting to see just how many people would.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4368
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2010,16:50   

FYI - Creation Project Sign Up

2010 March 4
Pastor Ben Dover
Please Note: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Yea! For it has been told to us, so we believe in:
6 day creation
Leprechauns
Santa Claus
Creation Believers are not nutz
The Home Office is here to help
Sarah Palin is also not nutz
Glenn Beck is a Mormon, not a True Christian and so is condemned to eternal hellfire
These Oh Lord are the Truths we live by
Amen.

I also believe that it's possible Pastor Hugh Jass might stop by.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2010,00:54   

Quote (Robin @ Mar. 05 2010,06:34)
[quote=midwifetoad,Feb. 02 2010,11:31][/quote]
Quote
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 29 2010,19:52)
There is now a Creation Letter Project in opposition to the Clergy Letter Project.

They're not doing badly. In two months they've had 11,000 visitors and 43 clergy signatures. :p


Late to the game on this, but I just saw FL's comment on the subject.

Seems to me that since the Creationist Letter Project is allowing just any ol' Tom, Dick, or Apologist sign on, perhaps there should be a simple Evolutionary Theory Letter Project on which anyone who affirms an understanding of evolutionary theory and process and can sign. It would be interesting to see just how many people would.

There is a facebook page trying to get 1000000 members by June

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2010,07:46   

Quote (MichaelJ @ Mar. 05 2010,00:54)

Quote
Quote (Robin @ Mar. 05 2010,06:34)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 02 2010,11:31)

 
Quote
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 29 2010,19:52)
There is now a Creation Letter Project in opposition to the Clergy Letter Project.

They're not doing badly. In two months they've had 11,000 visitors and 43 clergy signatures. :p


Late to the game on this, but I just saw FL's comment on the subject.

Seems to me that since the Creationist Letter Project is allowing just any ol' Tom, Dick, or Apologist sign on, perhaps there should be a simple Evolutionary Theory Letter Project on which anyone who affirms an understanding of evolutionary theory and process and can sign. It would be interesting to see just how many people would.

There is a facebook page trying to get 1000000 members by June


Excellent! I will take a looksy for that.

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
khan



Posts: 1484
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2010,12:19   

Good a place as any to put this:

[URL=http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/03/05/if-you-believe-dinosaurs-walked-the-earth-with-cavemen-of-course-you-think-climate-change-

is-fake/]Flintstones science[/URL]

http://tinyurl.com/yj72qmg

ETA: long URLs cause problems

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2153
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2010,13:16   

Quote (khan @ Mar. 05 2010,10:19)
Good a place as any to put this:

[URL=http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/03/05/if-you-believe-dinosaurs-walked-the-earth-with-cavemen-of-course-you-think-climate-change-


is-fake/]Flintstones science[/URL]

http://tinyurl.com/yj72qmg

ETA: long URLs cause problems

I hear the mountains in Japan are quite pretty....

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2010,05:30   

Does the University of Britiah Columbia know about this ?:

http://www.creationresearch.net/events/events%20Canada.htm

Quote
SEPTEMBER 2010  

Sept 20-24th  

1 week of ministry at University of British Columbia


oh and there's two weeks of field trips for USA folks on the Cumberland Plateau:

Quote
OCTOBER 2010 Two weeks of field trips for USA folks on the Cumberland Plateau click HERE for details.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2153
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2010,19:54   

Quote (Peter Henderson @ Mar. 10 2010,03:30)
Does the University of Britiah Columbia know about this ?:

http://www.creationresearch.net/events/events%20Canada.htm

Quote
SEPTEMBER 2010  

Sept 20-24th  

1 week of ministry at University of British Columbia


oh and there's two weeks of field trips for USA folks on the Cumberland Plateau:

Quote
OCTOBER 2010 Two weeks of field trips for USA folks on the Cumberland Plateau click HERE for details.

They do now. I just emailed Gary Bradford, the evolutionary biology advisor at UBC.

Ta for the heads up.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4368
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2010,20:19   

Quote (Peter Henderson @ Mar. 10 2010,05:30)
Does the University of Britiah Columbia know about this ?:

http://www.creationresearch.net/events/events%20Canada.htm

Quote
SEPTEMBER 2010  

Sept 20-24th  

1 week of ministry at University of British Columbia


oh and there's two weeks of field trips for USA folks on the Cumberland Plateau:

Quote
OCTOBER 2010 Two weeks of field trips for USA folks on the Cumberland Plateau click HERE for details.

Good link!  I found this book on their discoutn rack - anyone know Vox Day's birthday, so we can send it to him?



--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2010,07:03   

Ham is now cuddling up to Comfort:

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs....+Ham%29

and Crouch:

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs....bible-2

or is it vice versa ?

  
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