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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
onlooker



Posts: 17
Joined: Sep. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 05 2012,08:56   

I was just catching up over at The Skeptical Zone after a couple of days cleaning up from Sandy, and I saw a reference to something I thought was too offensive even for UD to host.  Turns out I was wrong.

Here's Mung explaining how he'd justify an omnibenevolent god allowing rape:
Quote
I never argued that God allows rape because He values free will. If I were to make some sort of assertion, it would be that God allows rape because there’s nothing evil about it. So now what?


So now what?  So now I know that I was correct in choosing to ignore Mung on every UD thread.  He's as ignorant as Joe, no more intelligent, but as thoroughly unpleasant and ethically challenged as Barry.  Quite the combination there.

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 05 2012,13:45   

Quote (onlooker @ Nov. 05 2012,08:56)
I was just catching up over at The Skeptical Zone after a couple of days cleaning up from Sandy, and I saw a reference to something I thought was too offensive even for UD to host.  Turns out I was wrong.

Here's Mung explaining how he'd justify an omnibenevolent god allowing rape:
Quote
I never argued that God allows rape because He values free will. If I were to make some sort of assertion, it would be that God allows rape because there’s nothing evil about it. So now what?


So now what?  So now I know that I was correct in choosing to ignore Mung on every UD thread.  He's as ignorant as Joe, no more intelligent, but as thoroughly unpleasant and ethically challenged as Barry.  Quite the combination there.

It is curious to me that folks like Mung, Barry, Gordo, Byers, and FL never bother to stop and ask why it is that the bible only mentions punishing those who "choose" (through free will) to commit such acts and omits any mention of actually providing comfort and complete health for the victims. Well, such things used to be curiosities to me until I realized that their god was an arrogant monster of their own imaginings that cheerful goes through eternity holding that all women deserve such treatment.

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 534
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 05 2012,15:00   

Quote (onlooker @ Nov. 05 2012,14:56)
I was just catching up over at The Skeptical Zone after a couple of days cleaning up from Sandy, and I saw a reference to something I thought was too offensive even for UD to host.  Turns out I was wrong.

Here's Mung explaining how he'd justify an omnibenevolent god allowing rape:
 
Quote
I never argued that God allows rape because He values free will. If I were to make some sort of assertion, it would be that God allows rape because there’s nothing evil about it. So now what?


So now what?  So now I know that I was correct in choosing to ignore Mung on every UD thread.  He's as ignorant as Joe, no more intelligent, but as thoroughly unpleasant and ethically challenged as Barry.  Quite the combination there.

Certainly an odd one for an objective-morality jockey to peddle. Turns out rape ain't so bad, which just leaves child molestation and murder. Or maybe they aren't evil either.

It would be useful if this objective morality were packaged in an unequivocal and accessible form. Maybe WJM will pop up and defend Mung, who at least is avoiding the dreadful fate of the 'subjective-moralist', of having no rational basis for their morality ... I expect there's a wider context to Mung's remarks, but I can't be arsed finding what it is.

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If hail is made out of ice and ice came from ice via water, then hail is made out of ice. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

  
k.e..



Posts: 3002
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,07:11   

Quote
Certainly an odd one for an objective-morality jockey to peddle. Turns out rape ain't so bad, which just leaves child molestation and murder. Or maybe they aren't evil either.

It would be useful if this objective morality were packaged in an unequivocal and accessible form. Maybe WJM will pop up and defend Mung, who at least is avoiding the dreadful fate of the 'subjective-moralist', of having no rational basis for their morality ... I expect there's a wider context to Mung's remarks, but I can't be arsed finding what it is.


I'll tell you why they believe god is a Nazi.

It's as simple as that, otherwise they wouldn't believe.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,07:15   

I think Mung is the ultimate Poe.

Mung is fully established now. So he get's to raise issues that would get others banniated.

And by outright saying what the others are thinking he exposes them for what they are when nobody says anything contrary.

Mung, PM Ras!

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,10:32   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 06 2012,08:15)
I think Mung is the ultimate Poe.

Mung is fully established now. So he get's to raise issues that would get others banniated.

And by outright saying what the others are thinking he exposes them for what they are when nobody says anything contrary.

Mung, PM Ras!

I would be soo sad

but i am not scared of the truth

HERE'S YOUR CHANCE BUNG

PM ME NOW OR STFU FOREVER



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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,11:22   

Inside Ann Gauger's lab: YouTube video shows it all! And we are still no stinking apes!
"Is There Enough Time For Humans to Have Evolved From Apes? Dr. Ann Gauger Answers"

Second comment by a hugely relieved Joe Coder:
 
Quote
Not a biologist/paleontologist, but one reason I have doubts with using the fossil record being used to support evolution is that of signal vs noise. Take the wolf and tasmanian wolf, which supposedly diverged 130m years ago from some rat-like therian. Give evolution, the fossils on the left would be more closely related to bats, giraffes, humans, and whales than to its twin on the right. This is a recurring theme among placentals and marsupials.

Sometimes I even wonder if ichthyosaur (reptile, air breathing, live birth, warm blooded, and at the right time) could serve as a link between sharks and cetaceans if somebody ever needed one.


And Joe weighs in:  
Quote
Also no one knows just how genetically different we are from chimps wd400- no one has ever done a complete side-by-side comparison of the two genomes.

It took me all of 30 seconds to find a paper by Cheng, Ventura, et al. who seem to have done just that.
Joe, there is something called Google. You might like to try it sometime.

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 752
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,11:37   

Oh hey, Gauger, is there time enough for your Designer to have designed humans in 5 to 10 million years?  You know, the, uh, what was that doing the designing again?  Well, does it have the intelligence and perseverance and lifespan (generations, whatever) to design something over millions of years?

If it could do so, then we can get into questions of why it would do so.  Like, why are there still apes?  Not really much of a question for evolution, but for people who claim purpose behind everything, a crucial question.

No, no answers?  Just the assumption that a Designer-God could do anything and everything, and that we shouldn't question it?  Yes, that's ID.

Glen Davidson

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Henry J



Posts: 4098
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,14:30   

Quote
And we are still no stinking apes!

Yeah, we take baths and they don't! (Well, some of us, sometimes.)

  
rossum



Posts: 186
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,15:15   

Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 06 2012,14:30)
Quote
And we are still no stinking apes!

Yeah, we take baths and they don't! (Well, some of us, sometimes.)

Every six months, whether I need one or not.

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The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2153
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,15:35   

Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 06 2012,12:30)
 
Quote
And we are still no stinking apes!

Yeah, we take baths and they don't! (Well, some of us, sometimes.)



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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,15:56   

Joe suspects that Coppedge's alleged poor performance wrt social skills is just due to those whiny customers.
 
Quote
Nothing in any of that goes to his skill-set. Also without any reasoning it is all meaningless. Ya see as far as you or anyone else knows Coppedge pissed people off because he would not give them what they did not have priviliges for. I have had similar issues and when push came to shove my manager saw through the (internal) customers’ nonsense.

I bet Joe was a real charmer.

Edited by Kattarina98 on Nov. 06 2012,15:58

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Amadan



Posts: 1264
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,17:29   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ Nov. 06 2012,21:56)
Joe <a href="bit.ly/SXrXnr" target="_blank">suspects</a> that Coppedge's alleged poor performance wrt social skills is just due to those whiny customers.
   
Quote
Nothing in any of that goes to his skill-set. Also without any reasoning it is all meaningless. Ya see as far as you or anyone else knows Coppedge pissed people off because he would not give them what they did not have priviliges for. I have had similar issues and when push came to shove my manager saw through the (internal) customers’ nonsense.

I bet Joe was a real charmer.

Joe, I'd like Admin privileges for this one, pretty please!

You do know how to reassign privileges on this model, don't you?

PS: Kattarina, welcome back! Where have you been hiding yourself?

Edited by Amadan on Nov. 06 2012,23:29

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3335
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,17:56   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ Nov. 06 2012,15:56)
Joe <a href="bit.ly/SXrXnr" target="_blank">suspects</a> that Coppedge's alleged poor performance wrt social skills is just due to those whiny customers.
   
Quote
Nothing in any of that goes to his skill-set. Also without any reasoning it is all meaningless. Ya see as far as you or anyone else knows Coppedge pissed people off because he would not give them what they did not have priviliges for. I have had similar issues and when push came to shove my manager saw through the (internal) customers’ nonsense.

I bet Joe was a real charmer.

Heh, and we know how that turned out, right Joe?

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Henry J



Posts: 4098
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2012,18:18   

Quote (fnxtr @ Nov. 06 2012,14:35)
Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 06 2012,12:30)
 
Quote
And we are still no stinking apes!

Yeah, we take baths and they don't! (Well, some of us, sometimes.)


Cute!

  
k.e..



Posts: 3002
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 07 2012,06:59   

Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 07 2012,02:18)
Quote (fnxtr @ Nov. 06 2012,14:35)
Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 06 2012,12:30)
   
Quote
And we are still no stinking apes!

Yeah, we take baths and they don't! (Well, some of us, sometimes.)


Cute!

Yeah .....and they're typing Shakespeare under water IN JAPANESE!

I'm personally grateful that I have decended from a common ancestor, imagine having to do that all day.

Yes it must be great not having to pay an electricty bill or having to put up with Seventh day Adventists knocking on the front door but think of the down side.

No beer.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2153
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 07 2012,09:21   

Quote (k.e.. @ Nov. 07 2012,04:59)
Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 07 2012,02:18)
Quote (fnxtr @ Nov. 06 2012,14:35)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 06 2012,12:30)
   
Quote
And we are still no stinking apes!

Yeah, we take baths and they don't! (Well, some of us, sometimes.)


Cute!

Yeah .....and they're typing Shakespeare under water IN JAPANESE!

I'm personally grateful that I have decended from a common ancestor, imagine having to do that all day.

Yes it must be great not having to pay an electricty bill or having to put up with Seventh day Adventists knocking on the front door but think of the down side.

No beer.

The only downside I see is that eventually you have to get out, to find food.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Henry J



Posts: 4098
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 07 2012,10:41   

Quote
Yeah .....and they're typing Shakespeare under water IN JAPANESE!

Not the original Klingon?

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 07 2012,15:05   

Quote (Amadan @ Nov. 06 2012,17:29)
PS: Kattarina, welcome back! Where have you been hiding yourself?

Thanks, Amadan. I have been cheating on AtBC with TalkRat.  :O

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Amadan



Posts: 1264
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 07 2012,15:49   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ Nov. 07 2012,21:05)
Quote (Amadan @ Nov. 06 2012,17:29)
PS: Kattarina, welcome back! Where have you been hiding yourself?

Thanks, Amadan. I have been cheating on AtBC with TalkRat.  :O

Ooooooooh, we're not good enough here, are we?

Traitor.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2012,09:47   

Quote (Amadan @ Nov. 07 2012,15:49)
 
Quote (Kattarina98 @ Nov. 07 2012,21:05)
   
Quote (Amadan @ Nov. 06 2012,17:29)
PS: Kattarina, welcome back! Where have you been hiding yourself?

Thanks, Amadan. I have been cheating on AtBC with TalkRat.  :O

Ooooooooh, we're not good enough here, are we?

Traitor.

Well, I needed a break from all you commieslibruls at AtBC; over at T-Rat, they are far less biased.

Edit: Wanted to drive home my point. ;-)

Edited by Kattarina98 on Nov. 08 2012,09:49

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
JohnW



Posts: 2296
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2012,15:19   

Woooooooooo!
Looking forward to some good party invitations.  With interesting snacks.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2153
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2012,15:55   

Quote (JohnW @ Nov. 08 2012,13:19)
Woooooooooo!
Looking forward to some good party invitations.  With interesting snacks.

I bet the local Hell's Angels chapters are pissed about the pot laws. No more selling to minors, no more huge profit margins.

The union of british columbia municipalities is having this conversation here but don't yet have a united front to present to the province or to Ottawa.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2012,20:02   

vjtorley's latest post clocks in at a record-setting 20,350 words.He's making KF look like a piker.

KF, the gauntlet has been laid down.  This must not stand.  Bydand!

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2012,20:40   

Quote (bornagain77 @ November 8, 2012, 8:10 pm)
‘You do not understand love at all.’

I beg to differ. From the tolerance, clarity, and patience, I have seen StephenB, over the last few years, exercise towards those who, IMO, unreasonably disagree with him, I would say StephenB has a far better grasp of the Christian imperative for love than most other Christians I’ve seen on the internet, especially myself!

Batshit77 must be back on the sauce.

link

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1681
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2012,23:34   

Quote (keiths @ Nov. 08 2012,20:02)
vjtorley's latest post clocks in at a record-setting 20,350 words.He's making KF look like a piker.

KF, the gauntlet has been laid down.  This must not stand.  Bydand!

I actually approve of these ultra-long posts.  My iPad 1 runs out of ram trying to load them and crashes, thus saving me from wasting my time reading them.

I propose CeilingCat's Conjecture:

"If you take all of the papers ever written, scientific or philosophical, the ones that make sense and are useful tend to be short and concise while the bloviating wastes of time all run over 10k words."

I claim the entire bodies of work of KF, Batshit and VJTorley as evidence.  Oh, and the Bible too.

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Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1681
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 09 2012,00:57   

Having looked at VJ's latest screed (on a PC, not an iPad), I have to note approvingly that it has pictures of a butterfly, an artist's impression of the multiverse (or the Jovian system four and a half billion years ago - it's so hard to tell), a protein, a Scrabble™ board, a highly idealized picture of a flagellum, a highly idealized picture of a type III secretion system, a highly idealized to the point where it's completely blank picture of Ron Numbers, a fossil trilobite, a highly idealized drawing of whale evolution (attributed to "Johnathan M. and Uncommon Descent" with no clue to where he stole it from), a beaver shot (SFW), a humpbacked whale breaching (possibly from the sheer joy of being a highly evolved product of evolution), a Least Weasel along with a semi-latched reprint from a Douglas Axe article attacking a real scientist's paper, a panda that is either eating a piece of bamboo or possibly playing it like a flute (you laugh, but with God, all things are possible) and a fossil "Maiacetus, a whale in the Protocetid family."

And then another 4,056 further words of text.  Don't try to tell me this is not a Major ID Article!

One thing does bother me a little bit.  In the Doug Axe / Weasel quote, Axe refers to Dawkins' old Weasel program and notes that it is searching for this:

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL

Then he says that Dawkins claims that this:

WDLMNLT DTJBKWIRZREZLMQCOP

"is somehow manifestly more fit than this:"

WDLTMNLT DTJBSWIRZREZLMQCOP

"but I can’t imagine why it would be, unless the selector (like Dawkins) knows exactly where he wants to go with it. If he does… well, that’s called intelligent design."

Dr. Axe here continues the long ID/YEC tradition of not reading the parts of a paper that make their objections moot.  In this case, Dawkins clearly states that he is illustrating the incredible speed advantage of cumulative selection vis-a-vis Creationist style "One fell swoop" selection.  He further states that in order to clearly illustrate the difference, he's provided a fixed target so his demonstration can avoid chasing the shifting target of actual evolution.

Following a long ID/UD tradition, Dr. Torley does not get this either.

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Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 09 2012,03:26   

More delusions of grandeur from KF:
Quote
Folks:

Pardon, I have been busy elsewhere (not only with local issues such as that airplane crash of Oct 7th, but with addressing implications of current events for the world and region, cf here, here, here and here — my suspicion is, the first point where things are likely to go off bang, is that we are now very close to disruptive war in the Middle East, with oil spiking to unprecedented levels . . . ), but coming back just now, I see BD to Mung in 126:


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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 09 2012,06:11   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Nov. 09 2012,00:57)
Having looked at VJ's latest screed (on a PC, not an iPad), I have to note approvingly that it has pictures of a butterfly


The butterfly image is being served straight from Wikipedia

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Monarch_In_May.jpg/800px-Monarch_In_May.jpg

as is the space picture

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Multiverse.png/800px-Multiverse.png

In fact all the images but one are hotlinked to Wikipedia.

What cheap bastards they are.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Amadan



Posts: 1264
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 09 2012,06:58   

Quote (keiths @ Nov. 09 2012,09:26)
More delusions of grandeur from KF:
 
Quote
Folks:

Pardon, I have been busy elsewhere (not only with local issues such as that airplane crash of Oct 7th, but with addressing implications of current events for the world and region, cf here, here, here and here — my suspicion is, the first point where things are likely to go off bang, is that we are now very close to disruptive war in the Middle East, with oil spiking to unprecedented levels . . . ), but coming back just now, I see BD to Mung in 126:

Shades of The Skibbereen Eagle!

The Montserrat Hall Monitor?

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
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